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Post by futuretrunks on Dec 2, 2020 22:34:18 GMT
How is it that there's never been a widely respected black film actress who also is a major star? Angela Bassett had a promising 90s run, but then completely receded to doing bit parts. Halle Berry... Viola Davis is widely respected, but also has been relegated most of her career to doing bit supporting roles. Shouldn't someone like Nicole Beharie be setting the film world on fire?
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Post by Martin Stett on Dec 2, 2020 22:37:20 GMT
How many women are major stars?
How many black men are major stars?
Is it really so hard to understand? Black men have less of a chance, women have less of chance. Ergo, black women have FAR less of a chance.
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Post by futuretrunks on Dec 2, 2020 22:47:27 GMT
How many women are major stars? How many black men are major stars? Is it really so hard to understand? Black men have less of a chance, women have less of chance. Ergo, black women have FAR less of a chance. I get that, but not one exception? Sam Jackson is respected, hugely famous, and arguably doesn't even have a white equivalent, so singular a figure he is. |
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Dec 2, 2020 22:51:43 GMT
I mean, I'd love for Nicole Beharie to be lighting the world up right now, but asking anyone, especially a black actress, to replicate Denzel's dual success at being both prestigious and a bona fide star is a tall order.
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 2, 2020 22:53:47 GMT
It's because there aren't many "like" Denzel who are male either - now some people dislike my "one of the top 15 US film actors of all time" joke......BUT........ it's not a joke - it's a compliment - and that's a big compliment too......he's just not in MY top 10 (yet). But if you add the African American males combined except Morgan Freeman - in his era Denzel Washington beats them all COMBINED in Oscar nominations (Fishburne, Foxx, Whitaker, Will Smith, Don Cheadle) - that's not everybody of course but the point is they all have 2 nods or less........ That's another great stat that Huey, Dewey, Louie (our 3 board ZelRobots) never mention so it's up to me to do it I guess.......  Anyway......when Viola Davis wins that 2nd Oscar - may not be this year, but maybe - she's going to be well on her way to a 2nd Triple Crown of acting - she's the only Black person to do it.....male or female....and NOBODY has 2 Triple Crowns (!) or is positioned like her to do it.......it's a huge deal if she pulls that off......to me at least. |
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Post by futuretrunks on Dec 2, 2020 22:59:48 GMT
It's because there aren't many "like" Denzel who are male either - now some people dislike my "one of the top 15 US film actors of all time" joke......BUT........ it's not a joke - it's a compliment - and that's a big compliment too......he's just not in MY top 10 (yet). But if you add the African American males combined except Morgan Freeman - in his era Denzel Washington beats them all COMBINED in Oscar nominations (Fishburne, Foxx, Whitaker, Will Smith, Don Cheadle) - that's not everybody of course but the point is they all have 2 nods or less........ That's another great stat that Huey, Dewey, Louie (our 3 board ZelRobots never mention so it's up to me to do it I guess....... Anyway......when Viola Davis wins that 2nd Oscar - may not this year, but maybe - she's going to be well on her way to a 2nd Triple Crown of acting - she's the only Black person to do it.....male or female....and NOBODY has 2 or is positioned like her to do it.......it's a huge deal iif she pulls that off......to me at least. I feel like Viola doesn't really have a strong relationship with audiences through film. Most of her nominations are play adaptations, and her most popular work to general audiences was the Shonda Rhimes TV show. Something with the quality and pedigree of Widows should have grossed more than Takers (2010) if she was a legit movie star. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Dec 2, 2020 23:06:18 GMT
People have covered it. Black women have it among the hardest in Hollywood, especially if they are dark skinned. The very strongest black actresses often don't even become prestige A-list actresses till they are well into middle age (Viola Davis, Regina King). They really need to work their way up the ladder. Some are highly respected in other mediums (TV, stage), but never had the aura of being a movie star (Audra McDonald, Alfre Woodard).
Halle Berry obviously became a superstar and was a fine actress, but not someone who could keep pace with Denzel as an actor like Regina and Viola might.
It's harder for the most talented black actresses to break through young enough to have that kind of "superstar" trajectory that is usually reserved for the Jennifer Lawrences and Anne Hathaways of the world. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 2, 2020 23:07:02 GMT
It's because there aren't many "like" Denzel who are male either - now some people dislike my "one of the top 15 US film actors of all time" joke......BUT........ it's not a joke - it's a compliment - and that's a big compliment too......he's just not in MY top 10 (yet). But if you add the African American males combined except Morgan Freeman - in his era Denzel Washington beats them all COMBINED in Oscar nominations (Fishburne, Foxx, Whitaker, Will Smith, Don Cheadle) - that's not everybody of course but the point is they all have 2 nods or less........ That's another great stat that Huey, Dewey, Louie (our 3 board ZelRobots never mention so it's up to me to do it I guess....... Anyway......when Viola Davis wins that 2nd Oscar - may not this year, but maybe - she's going to be well on her way to a 2nd Triple Crown of acting - she's the only Black person to do it.....male or female....and NOBODY has 2 or is positioned like her to do it.......it's a huge deal iif she pulls that off......to me at least. I feel like Viola doesn't really have a strong relationship with audiences through film. Most of her nominations are play adaptations, and her most popular work to general audiences was the Shonda Rhimes TV show. Something with the quality and pedigree of Widows should have grossed more than Takers (2010) if she was a legit movie star. True, definitely .......but her forward momentum is about to change in that regard particularly if she wins the Oscar this year.......she is almost a lock for the Emmy when her Michele Obama show premieres too......so if that happens she'll very much be the woman of the moment. A "Widows" type movie in 2022 would have more attraction than she had before this year ......just guessing ..........and if all that plays out of course...... |
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Dec 2, 2020 23:16:20 GMT
It's because there aren't many "like" Denzel who are male either - now some people dislike my "one of the top 15 US film actors of all time" joke......BUT........ it's not a joke - it's a compliment - and that's a big compliment too......he's just not in MY top 10 (yet). But if you add the African American males combined except Morgan Freeman - in his era Denzel Washington beats them all COMBINED in Oscar nominations (Fishburne, Foxx, Whitaker, Will Smith, Don Cheadle) - that's not everybody of course but the point is they all have 2 nods or less........ That's another great stat that Huey, Dewey, Louie (our 3 board ZelRobots never mention so it's up to me to do it I guess....... Anyway......when Viola Davis wins that 2nd Oscar - may not this year, but maybe - she's going to be well on her way to a 2nd Triple Crown of acting - she's the only Black person to do it.....male or female....and NOBODY has 2 or is positioned like her to do it.......it's a huge deal iif she pulls that off......to me at least. I feel like Viola doesn't really have a strong relationship with audiences through film. Most of her nominations are play adaptations, and her most popular work to general audiences was the Shonda Rhimes TV show. Something with the quality and pedigree of Widows should have grossed more than Takers (2010) if she was a legit movie star. The pathway to movie stardom doesn't really exist like it used to*. In a post- Avengers movie climate and with streaming becoming more and more of a thing, the movies Denzel made his bread and butter with (mid-budget adult movies prime for home rental) aren't prevalent on the big screen anymore. Even then, he made his bread and butter with those because of their shelf lives on home video when movie rentals still mattered (people gotta remember that Denzel did not become more consistently bankable until Remember the Titans, more than a decade after his Oscar nomination). Studios could make a pretty penny on a movie, even one that underperformed ( He Got Game grossed $22 million on a $25 million budget), through video rentals for years after release. Now, if a movie underperforms, that movie might have a limited window when you could rent it digitally and then it's going to Netflix or something and its ability to make money is virtually finished. *As an example, would a guy like Michael B. Jordan be popular enough to be on the cover of People magazine if he wasn't a part of pre-existing franchises like Creed or Black Panther? Movie stardom now is franchise or bust. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Dec 2, 2020 23:23:45 GMT
Interestingly enough, Denzel himself is aware of the difficulty black women have reaching the highest level, and tried to provide opportunities to some with "movie star" potential by approving casting them in his films (like Saana Lathan and Kimberly Elise), but their careers hit a glass ceiling.
Denzel told his own daughter Olivia (who is an actress) that to reach the top in this business as a dark skinned black actress, she needed to be better and better trained than her white counterparts (he used Viola Davis as an example). So he basically encouraged her to do a lot of stage. She's done classical theatre and has picked up small TV and film credits over the last few years. I do wonder when the time is right and he thinks she is ready, she might replicate her brother John David, and become the second child of Denzel to achieve significant stardom.
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Post by michael128 on Dec 2, 2020 23:23:54 GMT
Beyoncé Knowles-Carter?
4 Golden Globe nominations, 8 Emmy Nominations (including 2 for directing and 1 for writing), long listed for a BAFTA.
And despite grossing a little less overall than Denzel at the box office, her films bring in more on average than his with $264M/film vs his measly $81M/film.
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 2, 2020 23:29:25 GMT
Beyoncé Knowles-Carter? 4 Golden Globe nominations, 8 Emmy Nominations (including 2 for directing and 1 for writing), long listed for a BAFTA. And despite grossing a little less overall than Denzel at the box office, her films bring in more on average than his with $264M/film vs his measly $81M/film.  ...............Not to mention potential EGOT winner one day .........  |
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Post by hugobolso on Dec 3, 2020 0:25:31 GMT
Whoopi Goldberg was Denzel Washington, before Denzel Washington was Denzel Washigton.-
What's the main difference of Denzel Washington with most of Africanamerican actors.
Well, easy the main difference is that he had David Hammond as teacher. The same teacher of William Hurt,Annette Bening, John Torturro, Robin Williams and Christopher Reeve.-
He had theatrical experience, unlike most of the africanamerican hunks and belles.-
That's why until Viola Davis, there wasn't a femele Denzele Washington, well there was Whoopi Goldberg, who is much more a superior Will Smith/Eddie Murphy type, but she is also a terrific dramatic actress as well.-
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Post by MsMovieStar on Dec 3, 2020 0:33:02 GMT
Whoopi Goldberg was Denzel Washington, before Denzel Washington was Denzel Washigton.- Oh honey, the Sister Act movies must have made a lot of $$$ and did make her a big star. |
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Dec 3, 2020 0:33:09 GMT
Interestingly enough, Denzel himself is aware of the difficulty black women have reaching the highest level, and tried to provide opportunities to some with "movie star" potential by approving casting them in his films (like Saana Lathan and Kimberly Elise), but their careers hit a glass ceiling. Denzel told his own daughter Olivia (who is an actress) that to reach the top in this business as a dark skinned black actress, she needed to be better and better trained than her white counterparts (he used Viola Davis as an example). So he basically encouraged her to do a lot of stage. She's done classical theatre and has picked up small TV and film credits over the last few years. I do wonder when the time is right and he thinks she is ready, she might replicate her brother John David, and become the second child of Denzel to achieve significant stardom. Denzel was really good for that, especially when he was a viable young leading man, him and Wesley Snipes kept a lot of struggling black actresses working in the 1990s. For example, I rewatched Passenger 57 a while black, and realized that the back female lead of that movie never went on to much else of note, similar to the actress who played Denzel's wife in Ricohet. In general black actresses have it really bad. Producers would rather cast "names", this is why rappers and popstars with limited to no acting experience often dominate large roles that should probably go to minorities who actually have acting backgrounds. Beyonce was brought-up, but she's hardly an actress, and she's basically only cast in movies because she has huge name recognition. |
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Post by hugobolso on Dec 3, 2020 0:44:30 GMT
Interestingly enough, Denzel himself is aware of the difficulty black women have reaching the highest level, and tried to provide opportunities to some with "movie star" potential by approving casting them in his films (like Saana Lathan and Kimberly Elise), but their careers hit a glass ceiling. Denzel told his own daughter Olivia (who is an actress) that to reach the top in this business as a dark skinned black actress, she needed to be better and better trained than her white counterparts (he used Viola Davis as an example). So he basically encouraged her to do a lot of stage. She's done classical theatre and has picked up small TV and film credits over the last few years. I do wonder when the time is right and he thinks she is ready, she might replicate her brother John David, and become the second child of Denzel to achieve significant stardom. Denzel was really good for that, especially when he was a viable young leading man, him and Wesley Snipes kept a lot of struggling black actresses working in the 1990s. For example, I rewatched Passenger 57 a while black, and realized that the black female lead of that movie never went on to much else of note, similar to the actress who played Denzel's wife in Ricohet. In general black actresses have it really bad. Producers would rather cast "names", this is why rappers and popstars with limited to no acting experience often dominate large roles that should probably go to minorities who actually have acting backgrounds. Beyonce was brought-up, but she's hardly an actress, and she's basically only cast in movies because she has huge name recognition. That is why Lupita Nyongo is a star. She is the first African Princess, a wealthy and highly educated Kenyan's heiress.- She is also mexican, she speaks spanish perfectly.- Her sister is one of the more powerful women in Kenya.- She easily have taken that place that Beyonce, Jada Pinkett, Kerry Washington will never have. She hasn't to act like a princess, because she is already royal by blood.- |
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 3, 2020 0:53:36 GMT
Whoopi Goldberg was Denzel Washington, before Denzel Washington was Denzel Washigton.- What's the main difference of Denzel Washington with most of Africanamerican actors. Well, easy the main difference is that he had David Hammond as teacher. The same teacher of William Hurt,Annette Bening, John Torturro, Robin Williams and Christopher Reeve.-I remember seeing a clip of Whoopi's old TV show with John Travolta and they said something like "we've been in a lot of the biggest hit movies ever" and thinking that was so true and never gets thought of much.......it was a fascinating interview between them. Not just hits but BIG, historic hits......... Also, Denzel Washington had a lot of opportunities in addition to David Hammond (good point on Hammond) - people love to say black actors didn't have "equal opportunities" - but Denzel - who overcame a lot - which is admirable yes .......but he also............graduated from the same university that Donald Trump went to so........he had opportunities too ......... |
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Post by hugobolso on Dec 3, 2020 1:07:38 GMT
Whoopi Goldberg was Denzel Washington, before Denzel Washington was Denzel Washigton.- What's the main difference of Denzel Washington with most of Africanamerican actors. Well, easy the main difference is that he had David Hammond as teacher. The same teacher of William Hurt,Annette Bening, John Torturro, Robin Williams and Christopher Reeve.-I remember seeing a clip of Whoopi's old TV show with John Travolta and they said something like "we've been in a lot of the biggest hit movies ever" and thinking that was so true and never gets thought of much.......it was a fascinating interview between them. Not just hits but BIG, historic hits......... Also, Denzel Washington had a lot of opportunities in addition to David Hammond (good point on Hammond) - people love to say black actors didn't have "equal opportunities" - but Denzel - who overcame a lot - which is admirable yes .......but he also............graduated from the same university that Donald Trump went to so........he had opportunities too ......... I know the David Hammond thing, because he is a usual Uruguayan visitor, he gave several acting classes, and he even directed here Lost in Yonkers. I never see his play or classes, because I'm very shy and definitive not an actor.- My parent never allowed me to have acting lessons, any way I hate theatre. Trying to repeat the same words every night is too much for me.- so I become an afficionado movie critic on IMDB.- I never studied journalism to be a movie critic, so I went to law school, but I love to review series and films.- |
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Post by countjohn on Dec 3, 2020 1:37:32 GMT
Beyoncé Knowles-Carter? 4 Golden Globe nominations, 8 Emmy Nominations (including 2 for directing and 1 for writing), long listed for a BAFTA. And despite grossing a little less overall than Denzel at the box office, her films bring in more on average than his with $264M/film vs his measly $81M/film. If Beyonce had 100% committed to movies in the late 2000's or so I think she could have had a Portman/Johansson/Hathaway/Knightley type career. Acting seems to just be something she does on the side though with her focus more on music. |
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Post by futuretrunks on Dec 3, 2020 1:44:38 GMT
Beyoncé Knowles-Carter? 4 Golden Globe nominations, 8 Emmy Nominations (including 2 for directing and 1 for writing), long listed for a BAFTA. And despite grossing a little less overall than Denzel at the box office, her films bring in more on average than his with $264M/film vs his measly $81M/film. Acting seems to just be something she does on the side though with her focus more on music. I don't know man. She was fine in that MTV Carmen thing, but she seems too vacant most of the time. Ali Larter and Idris definitely outshone her in that trashy movie Obsessed. |
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Post by countjohn on Dec 3, 2020 1:50:14 GMT
If Beyonce had 100% committed to movies in the late 2000's or so I think she could have had a Portman/Johansson/Hathaway/Knightley type career. Acting seems to just be something she does on the side though with her focus more on music. I don't know man. She was fine in that MTV Carmen thing, but she seems too vacant most of the time. Ali Larter and Idris definitely outshone her in that trashy movie Obsessed. I liked her a lot in Cadillac Records. I think she's a better actress than some people think. My comment had more to do with her fame and how well connected she appears to be, though. That stuff matters. |
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Post by fiosnasiob on Dec 3, 2020 11:04:02 GMT
The first answer explains it all. I would say that Angela Bassett had the keys in hands for bigger stardom and critical success but she apparently turned down both, X-Men and Monster's Ball (both played by Berry), so she could have followed her very promising 90's with a fantastic early 00's start (maaaybe a Best Leading Oscar and definitely a big BO success and more exposure) and from there things should/could have been better for her but we won't re-write history. She's a great actress, charismatic, very beautiful, etc... in actor's attributes/tools, she's probably the closest we have to Denzel imo.
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Post by pupdurcs on Dec 3, 2020 11:26:43 GMT
The first answer explains it all. I would say that Angela Bassett had the keys in hands for bigger stardom and critical success but she apparently turned down both, X-Men and Monster's Ball (both played by Berry), so she could have followed her very promising 90's with a fantastic early 00's start (maaaybe a Best Leading Oscar and definitely a big BO success and more exposure) and from there things should/could have been better for her but we won't re-write history. She's a great actress, charismatic, very beautiful, she's probably the closest we have to Denzel imo. Yep, Bassett was supposed to be "the one". She had the acting chops to keep up with Denzel, and was very attractive and a star early enough to build up to that superstar level. But her decision making was poor, and her career did not become what it could have been. Shame. |
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...............Not to mention potential EGOT winner one day ......... 
