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Post by mhynson27 on Aug 13, 2020 14:52:42 GMT
Hmmm...I would have voted for Denzel but to my 'big surprise', he's, again, missing in a broad poll (with 19 picks and some "very questionable" names) where he should be an obvious candidate. Washington had only Training Day and MAYBE American Gangster as prominent work in that decade. Same reason for which I didn't put Tom Hanks, who had only Cast Away, and that's it (Catch Me If You Can is DiCaprio's one man show). I'd be more comfortable putting those two in the future "Best Actor of the 90s" poll. Road to Perdition? Charlie Wilson's War? The Da Vinci Code?
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 13, 2020 14:53:57 GMT
Pretty much................and if I was being a cynic (who me?) I'd point out yet AGAIN for the millionth time that in the real world Denzel Washington - as great as he is (and he can be great) - doesn't stack up very well at all to his top-level peers in ANY decade if you really look at it - maybe the 2020s will change that but for now: No BP nominees in the 90s or 00s, no significant hit or acclaimed comedies in the 90s or 00s compared to rivals, 0 BAFTAs in the 90s or 00s, not a great roster of directors by comparison at all, limited great co-star interacting, limited acting variance/type etc. ........he won an Oscar in the 00s and that's great I love him in Training Day personally .............but come on...... I have to ask...what great acclaimed comedies has Al Pacino been in? You keep bringing that up as negative point for Denzel, but I can't think of any great acclaimed comedies Pacino has been in. * One thing I like about you chuck is you actually engage - I treat you with respect and you treat me with respect - it's just really nice - thanks. You are the only fan of his who legitimately is curious about his strengths and flaws and thinks "Gee pacinoyes knows acting and has seen Denzel more on stage and screen than anyone".
* Well first of all it is not a Denzel/Pacino battle the way it is a Hanks/Denzel battle or a Pacino/DeNiro battle. The Pacino/Denzel "feud" is in many ways......absurd and wrongheaded - at least for the first 30 years of their careers.
* When this issue first came up - in response to a post from HELENA MARIA (you can search for it if you like) I answered this below:
* Neither actor is known for comedy but Pacino has an Oscar nomination for a comedy (Dick Tracy) - that's a huge deal.
* He is far funnier within dramas - I mean Pacino is a comic quote machine in Scarface, Scarecrow, Sea of Love, Scent, Heat, The Irishman, Glengarry, and many more - Denzel can be funny too - but not at that same level. In this way Denzel is closer to DDL actually.
* Pacino got a Golden Globe nod for a comedy just a few years ago (Danny Collins) - nothing like that for Denzel.
* Pacino's pulled off an expertly acted romantic comedy (Frankie & Johnny) - you could say The Preacher's Wife for Denzel but I don't think that's very good tbh.
* ............and crucially Devils Advocate alone is a far funnier movie with a bravura Pacino turn that he carries on his back in a supporting role - he's insanely funny there - there isn't anything Denzel can submit to counter it alone.But like I said - it's not a Pacino/Denzel battle........ it's a Denzel vs himself battle because Denzel loses this battle to everyone........and that's the key because you can argue this with many actors but he can't even really begin to argue it with his GOAT rivals: Hanks/Bridges/Stewart/De Niro/Hoffman (both of them)/Nicholson/Hackman/Newman/Lemmon/DiCaprio/Scott ........etc.
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Post by TerryMontana on Aug 13, 2020 14:54:05 GMT
Di Caprio, PSH and Bale for me.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 13, 2020 14:59:00 GMT
That actually made me wanna go research Pacino's filmography, and the closest thing I can find to a full-on comedy in his filmography which mostly consists of very serious movies, and the three comedic related things I could find were Stand Up Guys, Gigli, and Jack & Jill (he's actually the best thing about it)... which welp, we all know how the later two turned out. I was actually shocked he didn't a full-on comedic film in his younger career until he was in his sixties, unless we count unintentional humor. Maybe the failure of Author, Author, a family dramedy he did in 1982 scared him off from really getting out of his comfort zone, until he basically started playing off his persona. I guess Dick Tracy counts as a comedy too as already mentioned, and Pacino's appropriately bombastic and over the top, but I never considered it a straightforward laugh-riot either.
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Post by fiosnasiob on Aug 13, 2020 15:07:52 GMT
I was actually shocked he didn't a full-on comedic film in his younger career until he was in his sixties, unless we count unintentional humor. Maybe the failure of Author, Author, a family dramedy he did in 1982 scared him off from really getting out of his comfort zone, until he basically started playing off his persona. I guess Dick Tracy counts as a comedy too as already mentioned, and Pacino's appropriately bombastic and over the top, but I never considered it a straightforward laugh-riot either. Actually Pacino got an Golden Globes nomination for Author, Author and he's not really good in it, it just shows you how untrustworthy awards can be. And to me (big fan) he isn't that special in Dick Tracy too and it gets rarely mentioned when we talk about Pacino best works. Compared to Bobby D who got no American awards nominations at all for The King of Comedy and it's a superb work, always mentioned among his best. Oh and BTW Much Ado About Nothing is an acclaimed comedy, a delightful one.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 13, 2020 15:13:49 GMT
I was actually shocked he didn't a full-on comedic film in his younger career until he was in his sixties, unless we count unintentional humor. Maybe the failure of Author, Author, a family dramedy he did in 1982 scared him off from really getting out of his comfort zone, until he basically started playing off his persona. I guess Dick Tracy counts as a comedy too as already mentioned, and Pacino's appropriately bombastic and over the top, but I never considered it a straightforward laugh-riot either. That's actually why he won our poll I think or even beyond that is considered the GOAT because Pacino is just relentless - he's never failed at anything that he hasn't eventually then conquered. You specifically can't say that about Washington - I really don't know why fans of Denzel - which includes me - insist on comparing Pacino/Washington .......Washington has to get passed Hanks/Bridges/Dafoe/Phoenix/DiCaprio etc. before he is a GOAT challenger or in a conversation with Pacino (or Nicholson. or De Niro, or Newman, or Hackman) tbh.
It's kind of ridiculous ........
****************************************************************************************************** * Well first of all it is not a Denzel/Pacino battle the way it is a Hanks/Denzel battle or a Pacino/DeNiro battle. The Pacino/Denzel "feud" is in many ways......absurd and wrongheaded - at least for the first 30 years of their careers.
* When this issue first came up - in response to a post from Maria Helena (you can search for it if you like) I answered this below:
* Neither actor is known for comedy but Pacino has an Oscar nomination for a comedy (Dick Tracy) - that's a huge deal.
* He is far funnier within dramas - I mean Pacino is a comic quote machine in Scarface, Scarecrow, Sea of Love, Scent, Heat, The Irishman, Glengarry, and many more - Denzel can be funny too - but not at that same level. In this way Denzel is closer to DDL actually.
* Pacino got a Golden Globe nod for a comedy just a few years ago (Danny Collins) - nothing like that for Denzel.
* Pacino's pulled off an expertly acted romantic comedy (Frankie & Johnny) - you could say The Preacher's Wife for Denzel but I don't think that's very good tbh.
* ............and crucially Devils Advocate alone is a far funnier movie with a bravura Pacino turn that he carries on his back in a supporting role - he's insanely funny there - there isn't anything Denzel can submit to counter it alone.
But like I said - it's not a Pacino/Denzel battle........it's a Denzel vs himself battle because Denzel loses this battle to everyone........and that's the key because you can argue this with many actors but he can't even really begin to argue it with his GOAT rivals:
Hanks/Bridges/Stewart/De Niro/Hoffman (both of them)/Nicholson/Hackman/Newman/Lemmon/DiCaprio/Scott ........etc.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 13, 2020 15:16:08 GMT
I was actually shocked he didn't a full-on comedic film in his younger career until he was in his sixties, unless we count unintentional humor. Maybe the failure of Author, Author, a family dramedy he did in 1982 scared him off from really getting out of his comfort zone, until he basically started playing off his persona. I guess Dick Tracy counts as a comedy too as already mentioned, and Pacino's appropriately bombastic and over the top, but I never considered it a straightforward laugh-riot either. Actually Pacino got an Golden Globes nomination for Author, Author and he's not really good in it, it just shows you how untrustworthy awards can be. And to me (big fan) he isn't that special in Dick Tracy too and it gets rarely mentioned when we talk about Pacino best works. Compared to Bobby D who got no American awards nominations at all for The King of Comedy and it's a superb work, always mentioned among his best. Oh and BTW Much Ado About Nothing is an acclaimed comedy, a delightful one. Well Author, Author was a box office failure, which is what I was referring to. I actually forget he got a globe nomination for it, but that makes sense too. DeNiro was also really funny in Midnight Run and a delight in the underappreciated Mad Dog & Glory, and although his later day comedic "paycheck roles" borded on flat-out embarrassment, his first two big hits Analyze This, and Meet The Parents, show his talent for playing things relatively straight in absurd situation. Pacino in comparison could be funny, but I think a lot of his best humor derived from how unsubtle and shouty his acting got by the 1990s, like the "She's got a great ass" bit in Heat, works so well because of how out of the blue moon it comes, and is delivered. Also I love his Much Ado About Nothing. My favorite Branagh Shakespeare adaptation, and Denzel is so charming in it.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 13, 2020 15:23:44 GMT
I was actually shocked he didn't a full-on comedic film in his younger career until he was in his sixties, unless we count unintentional humor. Maybe the failure of Author, Author, a family dramedy he did in 1982 scared him off from really getting out of his comfort zone, until he basically started playing off his persona. I guess Dick Tracy counts as a comedy too as already mentioned, and Pacino's appropriately bombastic and over the top, but I never considered it a straightforward laugh-riot either. He is far funnier within dramas - I mean Pacino is a comic quote machine in Scarface, Scarecrow, Sea of Love, Scent, Heat, The Irishman, Glengarry, and many more - Denzel can be funny too - but not at that same level. In this way Denzel is closer to DDL actually.I actually agree that Pacino is often funnier in his "dramas" then he is in his rare turns in straightforward farce. Like Heat and Scarface have a lot of great (mostly intentionally?) comedic moments that he delivers with a lot of power and gusto, it actually works. Similarly he's delightful in his two big scenes Jack & Jill because he's mostly playing off his persona actually well, even when the rest of the movie is quite frankly garbage.
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Post by Viced on Aug 13, 2020 15:27:13 GMT
please stop making polls
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Aug 13, 2020 15:29:12 GMT
I was actually shocked he didn't a full-on comedic film in his younger career until he was in his sixties, unless we count unintentional humor. Maybe the failure of Author, Author, a family dramedy he did in 1982 scared him off from really getting out of his comfort zone, until he basically started playing off his persona. I guess Dick Tracy counts as a comedy too as already mentioned, and Pacino's appropriately bombastic and over the top, but I never considered it a straightforward laugh-riot either. That's actually why he won our poll I think or even beyond that is considered the GOAT because Pacino is just relentless - he's never failed at anything that he hasn't eventually then conquered. You specifically can't say that about Washington - I really don't know why fans of Denzel - which includes me - insist on comparing Pacino/Washington .......Washington has to get passed Hanks/Bridges/Dafoe/Phoenix/DiCaprio etc. before he is a GOAT challenger or in a conversation with Pacino (or Nicholson. or De Niro, or Newman, or Hackman) tbh.
It's kind of ridiculous ........
****************************************************************************************************** * Well first of all it is not a Denzel/Pacino battle the way it is a Hanks/Denzel battle or a Pacino/DeNiro battle. The Pacino/Denzel "feud" is in many ways......absurd and wrongheaded - at least for the first 30 years of their careers.
* When this issue first came up - in response to a post from Maria Helena (you can search for it if you like) I answered this below:
* Neither actor is known for comedy but Pacino has an Oscar nomination for a comedy (Dick Tracy) - that's a huge deal.
* He is far funnier within dramas - I mean Pacino is a comic quote machine in Scarface, Scarecrow, Sea of Love, Scent, Heat, The Irishman, Glengarry, and many more - Denzel can be funny too - but not at that same level. In this way Denzel is closer to DDL actually.
* Pacino got a Golden Globe nod for a comedy just a few years ago (Danny Collins) - nothing like that for Denzel.
* Pacino's pulled off an expertly acted romantic comedy (Frankie & Johnny) - you could say The Preacher's Wife for Denzel but I don't think that's very good tbh.
* ............and crucially Devils Advocate alone is a far funnier movie with a bravura Pacino turn that he carries on his back in a supporting role - he's insanely funny there - there isn't anything Denzel can submit to counter it alone.
But like I said - it's not a Pacino/Denzel battle........it's a Denzel vs himself battle because Denzel loses this battle to everyone........and that's the key because you can argue this with many actors but he can't even really begin to argue it with his GOAT rivals:
Hanks/Bridges/Stewart/De Niro/Hoffman (both of them)/Nicholson/Hackman/Newman/Lemmon/DiCaprio/Scott ........etc.I love Al Pacino, he's one of my favorite actors ever...but let's be real this is why people laugh during his dramatic performances especially starting in the 90s We'll just have to agree to disagree. Yeah Pacino got nominated for Dick Tracy, but Dick Tracy hasn't really held up as a great comedy..has it? You think Frankie and Johnny is better than The Preachers' Wife as a romantic comedy..that's fine...I think Denzel showed he could've gone the Matthew McConaughey route and been a romatic leading man if he had any interest in that. Danny Collins Golden Globes nomination..ok..everything else as far who funnier in dramatic performances is subjective. Denzel at times was hilarious in Training Day..even though it still was a serious dramatic performance, Inside Man, Much Ado About Nothing. Pacino hasn't really separated himself from Denzel in the comedy department if we're really being honest. Pacino is not exactly Steve Martin or Robin Williams.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 13, 2020 16:24:47 GMT
He is far funnier within dramas - I mean Pacino is a comic quote machine in Scarface, Scarecrow, Sea of Love, Scent, Heat, The Irishman, Glengarry, and many more - Denzel can be funny too - but not at that same level. In this way Denzel is closer to DDL actually. I actually agree that Pacino is often funnier in his "dramas" then he is in his rare turns in straightforward farce. Like Heat and Scarface have a lot of great (mostly intentionally?) comedic moments that he delivers with a lot of power and gusto, it actually works. Similarly he's delightful in his two big scenes Jack & Jill because he's mostly playing off his persona actually well, even when the rest of the movie is quite frankly garbage. Yes when I saw Jack & Jill I thought this self-deprecation is kind of funny but the film itself is so awful it's going to get lost......that period was a hard time to be a fan tbh and I sort of wrote him off at that time too on IMDB .......but he came back with 6 very good or better performances imo ( Phil Spector/Manglehorn/The Humbling/Danny Collins/Paterno/Irishman) in just 7 years imo (at ages 73-79) which is what makes being a fan of any actor so much fun - you just never know.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 13, 2020 16:55:44 GMT
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Yeah Pacino got nominated for Dick Tracy, but Dick Tracy hasn't really held up as a great comedy..has it? You think Frankie and Johnny is better than The Preachers' Wife as a romantic comedy..that's fine...I think Denzel showed he could've gone the Matthew McConaughey route and been a romatic leading man if he had any interest in that. Danny Collins Golden Globes nomination..ok..everything else as far who funnier in dramatic performances is subjective. Denzel at times was hilarious in Training Day..even though it still was a serious dramatic performance, Inside Man, Much Ado About Nothing. Pacino hasn't really separated himself from Denzel in the comedy department if we're really being honest. Pacino is not exactly Steve Martin or Robin Williams.Well we're not just agreeing to disagree - we are further apart than I thought tbh ..........when you are listing Much Ado About Nothing (a fine film, he's good/charming in it) for Denzel's role which is not even remotely as funny as Pacino's 1st filmed Shakespeare performance even ( Looking For Richard) I just give up ........as for the dramatic performances with comic touches being "subjective" so they are then somehow "equal" .......Nope, aside from Training Day and Pacino has 10+ Training Days. Also, look at your last 2 sentences above - does that even make sense? I mean Jeff Bridges hasn't separated himself from Denzel in comedies either although he sort of has when we compare them .......... and Bridges isn't exactly Jim Carrey so let's say Denzel is an equal to Bridges in comedy (he's not) and then pivot and call him the GOAT because Jeff Bridges isn't Jim Carrey. if Denzel Washington ever got an Oscar nod for a completely unique comic creation like in Dick Tracy (first superhero nomination too btw) you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it with how it "hasn't held up" and if he ever did create such a character, THEN I wouldn't be so quick as to say comedy is big and obvious gap in his filmography (comparatively speaking to his top peers). But he has to actually do it - Denzel's fans are waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to eager to give him credit for things he hasn't actually done......
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Post by Mattsby on Aug 13, 2020 20:20:58 GMT
Javier Bardem (no mentions yet!!!) Philip Seymour Hoffman Johnny Depp Kang-ho Song
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Post by futuretrunks on Aug 13, 2020 23:33:50 GMT
Voted Leo. I actually think his 2000s were stronger than his 2010s. Blood Diamond, The Departed, and Revolutionary Road are amazing performances and IMO top everything he's done in the 2010s, though I put WoWS close. Catch Me is another superb performance.
Ledger had the performance of the decade (TDK), but his filmography was too lacking. He doesn't even get 10 Things I Hate About You (1999).
Wock is probably my #2. Joaquin had a much stronger 2000s than 2010s IMO. Gladiator, Walk the Line, Two Lovers, We Own the Night, Buffalo Soldiers, The Yards. Those are some impressive performances in films you don't have to hold your nose for.
PSH had some impressive versatility. I'd put him 3rd-ish.
Edit: Forgot about my boy Russell Crowe. He's genius in 3:10 to Yuma. If he had one other performance nearly that strong in the second half of the 2000s I'd list him. I did like him in State of Play, and what I recall of A Good Year was pretty good.
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Post by franklin on Aug 14, 2020 0:18:35 GMT
Voted Leo. I actually think his 2000s were stronger than his 2010s. Blood Diamond, The Departed, and Revolutionary Road are amazing performances and IMO top everything he's done in the 2010s, though I put WoWS close. Catch Me is another superb performance. Ledger had the performance of the decade (TDK), but his filmography was too lacking. He doesn't even get 10 Things I Hate About You (1999). Wock is probably my #2. Joaquin had a much stronger 2000s than 2010s IMO. Gladiator, Walk the Line, Two Lovers, We Own the Night, Buffalo Soldiers, The Yards. Those are some impressive performances in films you don't have to hold your nose for. PSH had some impressive versatility. I'd put him 3rd-ish. Edit: Forgot about my boy Russell Crowe. He's genius in 3:10 to Yuma. If he had one other performance nearly that strong in the second half of the 2000s I'd list him. I did like him in State of Play, and what I recall of A Good Year was pretty good. I think The Aviator is one his top 3 greatest performances ever.
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Post by franklin on Aug 14, 2020 10:02:04 GMT
BTW I think it's between PSH and DiCaprio in terms of streak of great films and performances:
PSH: Almost Famous Punch-Drunk Love Capote Charlie Wilson's War Doubt
DiCaprio: The Beach Gangs of New York Catch Me If You Can The Aviator The Departed Blood Diamond Revolutionary Road
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