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Post by futuretrunks on Jun 23, 2020 22:44:07 GMT
Who's the greater actor? For me, much as I love Spicoli, Crowe's turn of the century run was probably the most impressive leading man star run since Pacino's 70s. And I just love more Crowe performances. Amazing in 3:10 to Yuma. Killed it recently on that Roger Ailes Showtime show. Quite good in neglected stuff like State of Play (2009) and The Next Three Days.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 23, 2020 22:58:44 GMT
Here's a secret: This board is wrong on a lot of things in acting  - none of them more than Sean Penn who from 83-08 was what Mattsby referred to Cage as "at his best he was one of the best" in this era - for me he beats Hanks, Washington easily .....and then he went off a cliff like Dustin Hoffman did and they and others surpassed him. I still feel he's more gifted....than both.....and maybe Dafoe too (that's a different comparative thing). For me he's got 10+ great performances including his Oscar wins, including a comic lead that got nodded for an Oscar in Best Actor a huge plus......he's got great left-field performances in things like The Assassination of Richard Nixon too. He was great in the 80s and got better later (and worse). Crowe is wrong thing too on this board but in reverse - he had a great 10 year run in Australia then Hollywood up until the early 2000s and that is it - a full half of Penn's run.....he's wildly overrated and I say that like Ed Norton-level overrated.....but Crowe deserved the win in 99 and has marvelous work around it - and it was a great run.......but not THAT great.  |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 23, 2020 23:01:24 GMT
Crowe, and it's not close.
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Post by stephen on Jun 23, 2020 23:15:25 GMT
I can count the number of performances Penn has given that I would consider great on one hand, and still have a finger or two left over.
Crowe, I can count his great performances on both hands and feet, and he would use them to beat the fuck out of Penn. "Makin' movies, makin' songs, and fightin' 'round the world!"
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Post by finniussnrub on Jun 23, 2020 23:22:46 GMT
The phone thrower.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 23, 2020 23:33:22 GMT
Let's revisit that epic 2001 Best Actor Lineup:Russell Crowe - A Beautiful Mind Sean Penn - I Am Sam Denzel Washington - Training Day Tom Wilkinson - In the Bedroom Will Smith - Ali I think this lineup provides all the context in this discussion. Crowe felt like he was gonna win all year. I would've liked for him to win tho, as I sometimes forgot he didn't actually win. He seemed cool about losing to Denzel however, reuniting with him 6 years later in American Gangster - seemed well over it by then. But it would've just been nice to have Crowe as a back-to-back winner as that's like the final signature mark capsulating just how big he was from 1997-2001. Penn was terrible in I Am Sam, razzie worthy. He was rightfully not a threat to win, because if the race came down to those 3.... Penn should've been dead last and the other two if just by default should've battled for the gold. (I realize Wilkinson was in the lineup too, but he wasn't winning) If you would've had this thread as Denzel vs Penn vs Crowe, I think it would be an epic discussion, and bring 2001 back into the fold again; just saying. 
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Post by Mattsby on Jun 23, 2020 23:47:48 GMT
The Insider and Gladiator is a major peak, but otherwise Crowe's scalene-triangle career doesn’t impress much. As good as he is in Proof and Romper Stomper, I prefer his costars Hugo Weaving and Daniel Pollock. He’s solid in several other things (Master Commander, etc) but looking at his total noteworthy work lets down, compared to Penn…..
Bad Boys, Racing with the Moon, Falcon and the Snowman, At Close Range, Colors, Casualties of War, Carlito’s Way, Dead Man Walking, Sweet and Lowdown, Mystic River, Richard Nixon, Milk, Fair Game....
Some of those are more underrated than great but still, those younger-era Penn perfs don’t pander, they have an instinctive slow-boil edge. He dares too - especially those great unctuous parts (Falcon, and all-timer Carlito’s), and parts you wouldn’t think he’d pull off (the hilarious Sweet and Lowdown, Milk, even This Must Be the Place is at least its own bizarrely sweet thing). He also knows exactly how to pedal tension and suggestion kinda thrillingly into the chemistry with his costars. I don’t get the hate…….
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morton
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Post by morton on Jun 24, 2020 0:41:01 GMT
The Insider and Gladiator is a major peak, but otherwise Crowe's scalene-triangle career doesn’t impress much. As good as he is in Proof and Romper Stomper, I prefer his costars Hugo Weaving and Daniel Pollock. He’s solid in several other things (Master Commander, etc) but looking at his total noteworthy work lets down, compared to Penn….. Bad Boys, Racing with the Moon, Falcon and the Snowman, At Close Range, Colors, Casualties of War, Carlito’s Way, Dead Man Walking, Sweet and Lowdown, Mystic River, Richard Nixon, Milk, Fair Game.... Some of those are more underrated than great but still, those younger-era Penn perfs don’t pander, they have an instinctive slow-boil edge. He dares too - especially those great unctuous parts (Falcon, and all-timer Carlito’s), and parts you wouldn’t think he’d pull off (the hilarious Sweet and Lowdown, Milk, even This Must Be the Place is at least its own bizarrely sweet thing). He also knows exactly how to pedal tension and suggestion kinda thrillingly into the chemistry with his costars. I don’t get the hate……. This was very difficult for me to vote in because I used to love Russell Crowe so much, and I’ve never been a fan of Sean Penn, but thinking back over their careers, at least for me I think that Penn has given more performances of quality. I think his personal life overshadowed his work for me when I was younger because I’ve been a Madonna fan ever since I was pretty young, but I can’t deny his talent in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, At Close Range, Casualties of War, Colors, and even We’re No Angels. Then a few years later he really wowed me in Carlito’s Way, but I still didn’t really root for him. Then came Dead Man’s Walking, and even though I think he seemed like a jerk for how he allegedly treated his friend who won instead of him, I do think he should have won, which is something I never expected to ever happen. I was surprised by Sweet and Lowdown the most though. It’s not a stretch that he could play a talented artist with a huge ego who is always getting into trouble, and Samantha Morton’s lovely performance helped contribute a lot to the film too, but I was not prepared to have that kind of soft, romantic performance in him. He might not be consistent, but I have to admit that over the years, albeit not in sometime, he’s managed to surprise me with another facet to his acting. Like even with his appearance on Friends, I was surprised how well he did. Tomorrow I might change my mind and vote for Crowe, but as electric and charismatic I found Crowe early on, I think Penn was more reliable over a longer period of time. I also think that Penn would be able to surprise me again in a good way even with the slump he is in whereas I don’t know if Crowe has in it him anymore to surprise me in a good way. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 24, 2020 0:41:17 GMT
Penn got badly exposed after awhile. The edgy method posturing and pretense to "artistic integrity" which conned a lot of people into thinking he was a lot better than he was, became irrelevant when a younger generation of actors followed in his wake, and did the edgy method posturing and artistic integrity schtick with more talent, charisma , skill and consistentcy than he ever had. Joaquin Phoenix, Christian Bale, Ryan Gosling...all better than him, and made him look and feel irrelevant. Edward Norton was better than him as well, but he had his own issues that derailed his career.
Crowe is a much more unique animal. Much harder to replicate his qualities to the level his displayed at his peak, let alone surpass them. You have to go back to great golden age stars like Robert Mitchum and Kirk Douglas to find what he had going for him. Only a few movie stars today have or had that (the guy in my Avatar being one of those few). Crowe was a magnificent throwback of a great star actor. A shame he lost his edge after awhile, but a "solid" version of Crowe that we usually get now, is usually still better than whatever Penn is serving up.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 24, 2020 0:55:17 GMT
The Insider and Gladiator is a major peak, but otherwise Crowe's scalene-triangle career doesn’t impress much. As good as he is in Proof and Romper Stomper, I prefer his costars Hugo Weaving and Daniel Pollock. He’s solid in several other things (Master Commander, etc) but looking at his total noteworthy work lets down, compared to Penn….. Bad Boys, Racing with the Moon, Falcon and the Snowman, At Close Range, Colors, Casualties of War, Carlito’s Way, Dead Man Walking, Sweet and Lowdown, Mystic River, Richard Nixon, Milk, Fair Game.... Some of those are more underrated than great but still, those younger-era Penn perfs don’t pander, they have an instinctive slow-boil edge. He dares too - especially those great unctuous parts (Falcon, and all-timer Carlito’s), and parts you wouldn’t think he’d pull off (the hilarious Sweet and Lowdown, Milk, even This Must Be the Place is at least its own bizarrely sweet thing). He also knows exactly how to pedal tension and suggestion kinda thrillingly into the chemistry with his costars. I don’t get the hate……. Tomorrow I might change my mind and vote for Crowe, but as electric and charismatic I found Crowe early on, I think Penn was more reliable over a longer period of time. I also think that Penn would be able to surprise me again in a good way even with the slump he is in whereas I don’t know if Crowe has in it him anymore to surprise me in a good way. Penn desperately needs someone to play off nowadays - in his failed TV show "The First" he was quite good but the performance doesn't build to anything at all, it's like one hand clapping .........then again the last time I saw Crowe he was faking it in a fat suit (in a Golden Globe WINNING lame turn in The Loudest Voice)......course corrections are needed badly for both. Penn's next movie is with his daughter and he's directing I'm not sure if he's taking a lead or a small supporting turn and no one else of weight in the cast really for a guy with so many big name friends (Josh Brolin, Miles Teller, Eddie Marsan)......very shaky sounding but you never know...... |
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Post by mattfincher on Jun 24, 2020 1:14:57 GMT
I'm pretty hot and cold on both of them. They've been win worthy and they've both been awful in pretty much equal measure to me. Unpopular opinion, but I actually would have voted for Penn on both his wins. Crowe should have won for The Insider instead of Gladiator. Penn seems to be pretty much as disliked as a two-time lead actor winner can be online as far as I can tell and whenever I see either of his wins discussed, it always seems to end in the other guy (whether it be Murray or Rourke) should have won. I've never seen him spoken with anywhere near the reverence on any online platform by cinephiles in the same way the industry seems to speak of him. I think his legacy within the industry and outside of it are going to be extremely disproportionate to one another. But I still think his highs are pretty high. Despite not having been nominated for an Oscar in nearly two decades, Crowe seems to be held in much better regard, which is impressive given his temperamental past and how people seem to frown upon that these days. I like him a lot, but he can mug just as much as Penn when he's off and seems to get less flack for it when he does for some reason. I dunno, I guess Penn's highs are a little higher to me and he's going to lose this poll anyways.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 24, 2020 1:25:56 GMT
I'm pretty hot and cold on both of them. They've been win worthy and they've both been awful in pretty much equal measure to me. Unpopular opinion, but I actually would have voted for Penn on both his wins. Crowe should have won for The Insider instead of Gladiator. Penn seems to be pretty much as disliked as a two-time lead actor winner can be online as far as I can tell and whenever I see either of his wins discussed, it always seems to end in the other guy (whether it be Murray or Rourke) should have won. I've never seen him spoken with anywhere near the reverence on any online platform by cinephiles in the same way the industry seems to speak of him. I think his legacy within the industry and outside of it are going to be extremely disproportionate to one another. But I still think his highs are pretty high. Despite not having been nominated for an Oscar in nearly two decades, Crowe seems to be held in much better regard, which is impressive given his temperamental past and how people seem to frown upon that these days. I like him a lot, but he can mug just as much as Penn when he's off and seems to get less flack for it when he does for some reason. I dunno, I guess Penn's highs are a little higher to me and he's going to lose this poll anyways. I don't think Crowe has mugging as atricious as Gangster Squad, Shanghai Surprise and All The Kings Men to his name. Penn is a serial offender, and some of the shit he pulls makes Tom Hardy in Capone seem subtle . Crowe had some notable mugging (and terrible singing) in Les Misreables and you could see the visible strain in A Good Year, but on the whole he's a far more measured, truthful and nuanced performer than Penn. |
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Post by TerryMontana on Jun 24, 2020 5:36:56 GMT
I always thought Crowe was a fine but limited actor...
Sorry.
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Post by fiosnasiob on Jun 24, 2020 12:19:13 GMT
Both are great actors but Crowe is something else, he has an aura, something organically and effortlessly great around him, he doesn't need dialogues or big moments prone to (over)Acting to be impressive, something that I found to be almost vital for Penn, I can imagine a lot of things but Penn in something like Gladiator is beyond my capabilities. Crowe can, easily, brings the same kind of raw intensity than Penn, nails hugely technical and transformatives roles as well, shows a tremendous amount of vulnerability and more, muuuch more. Both need to deliver us a knockout film performance ASAP tho.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 24, 2020 12:55:37 GMT
I can’t deny his talent in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, At Close Range, Casualties of War, Colors, and even We’re No Angels. I guess here's my problem with Penn: I haven't seen any of these. Nor Carlito's Way or Sweet and Lowdown, for that matter. I've always found him a very affected actor, but I'm only familiar with I Am Sam onwards, so maybe I just have a different Sean Penn in mind than everyone else. |
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Post by Allenism on Jun 24, 2020 12:58:37 GMT
Before I would've said Crowe without any hesitation, but now it's a slightly less enthused response. Bottom line is that he has a few very, very impressive performances under his belt (L.A. Confidential, The Insider, perhaps A Beautiful Mind) and hasn't stumbled to the same depths of atrocity that Penn has on various occasions. I like a couple of Penn's performance by by and large he's just an overcooked ham to me.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jun 24, 2020 13:57:01 GMT
Penn for me, I really don’t get the hate for him on this board? I’m with pacinoyes in regards to him. |
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Post by jimmalone on Jun 25, 2020 8:32:45 GMT
This is an interesting comparison in that regard, that if you would have asked me in the middle of the 2000s I would have maybe said that right now those are the two best actors in the world - or at least two of them. But Crowe was certainly #1 for me. That run from 1997 to 2007 was incredible. But Penn was terrific in that period too: Thin Red Line, Mystic River, 21 Grams, Assassination of Richard Nixon, Milk, Interpreter, yes I even liked him in I am Sam. And he has good performances outside of this time as well (Dead Man Walking, State of Grace, Fast Times at Ridgemont High). It's one of the biggest mysteries of the general consensus of this forum for me that Penn is so disliked on here.
However in regard to the original question: It's Crowe for me. Penn might make my Top 30 actors of all time, but Crowe is on the verge of the Top 10.
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- none of them more than Sean Penn who from 83-08 was what 
