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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2020 1:52:42 GMT
Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you on this. We've done that dance too many times. Time for some new dance partners .May god go with you.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2020 2:00:04 GMT
Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you on this. We've done that dance too many times. Time for some new dance partners .May god go with you. Fine with me - my post is there anyway - anyone want to say I'm not right in those facts feel free ............ anybody who wants to say "wow just 2 BP nominees in 35 years? Just 5 nodded castmates in DW's 35 years? Damn that's kind of shocking" ............that's also good. May God (capitalized) go with you too.......
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2020 2:03:17 GMT
You post the "metrics" of Washington's (and Pacino's ) careers every other day on various threads.
I doubt anybody is shocked by you doing it some more. Just not interested in that kind of engagement. It's kinda dead for me.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2020 2:08:41 GMT
Washington often has to will himself to a nomimation, as he's in less BP nomimated films (unfairly, as some of his films probably merited BP nods, but that's beside the point). But very few actors have ever committed an act of generosity so great to their co-star, by letting them coattail their way to an Oscar nomination, in a film that wouldn't have gotten near the Oscars, without his performance. I'm talking what he did for Ethan Hawke in Training Day. He made Hawke better, and brought him along for the ride (and an Oscar nod of his own). Even though, Washington played the domineering character, he didn't run roughshod over Hawke like Daniel Day-Lewis did Leonardo DiCaprio in Gangs Of New York. This is true and a myth - Washington being in films that weren't close to being BP contenders is a drawback and him being "better than his films" is a plus - he gets a lot of glitter for himself by being in lesser films but no one can say he has a filmography or co-stars opposite any of these 3 guys in the poll. I mean how is Abdi not an equivalent (or more) of Hawke for example for Hanks - and sure it's in a better movie (or a BP nodded film) but you can't hold that fact AGAINST Hanks simultaneously...... I mean no one is saying DW can't be generous either but it's a lesser as a metric for him clearly...... Only 5 people I think have gotten a nod in a film he's in (off the top of my head?) Dee, Caesar, Davis, Hawke, Hanks - how many of those did he allow to coattail - is that supposed to mean Davis? Hanks? Dee?......it just doesn't add up. Well I posted Pacino because people asked me too but compare his metrics on the same categories to the 3 other people in the poll and see how he does. Also, only 2 films did a costar get a nod when he got a nod so his coattails aren't that long - it's just a lie.....my post is above, goodnight.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jun 19, 2020 2:11:34 GMT
Only 5 people I think have gotten a nod in a film he's in (off the top of my head?) Dee, Caesar, Davis, Hawke, Hanks - how many of those did he allow to coattail - is that supposed to mean Davis? Hanks? Dee?......it just doesn't add up. It's not even like Washington has more nominated costars in non-Best Picture nominees. Hanks: 1. Road to Perdition - Paul Newman 2. Catch Me If You Can - Christopher Walken 3. Charlie Wilson's War - Philip Seymour Hoffman Washington: 1. Philadelphia - Tom Hanks 1. Training Day - Ethan Hawke 2. American Gangster - Ruby Dee And while we're at this, DiCaprio, in a much younger career, has actually had more nominated costars than both Hanks and Washington in non-Best Picture nominees: 1. Marvin's Room - Diane Keaton 2. Catch Me If You Can - Christopher Walken 3. Blood Diamond - Djimon Hounsou 4. Revolutionary Road - Michael Shannon
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2020 2:26:25 GMT
I'll talk about each of them. Denzel Washington - He is somewhat of a platonic ideal of an acting star. Extremely versatile, technically perfect and transferable to different mediums (dude could do an audiobook and it'd be moving), can elevate weak material through sheer creative force of will or supersede the challenge of a great script, and has legitimate megawatt charisma on top of that all. He is in so total command of his craft that I at least go in with full confidence he will never fall flat on his face on screen. If I had to nitpick a weakness (and it really is nitpicking with someone that perfect), it's that he too often lends himself to roles that ask him to play empty stoicism. Since he is an innately cool actor to watch and can play stoicism as easily as one puts on pants, he's never embarrassingly off-the-mark or anything, but it does mean that performances like The Book of Eli that populate his résumé more than they should leave absolutely no impression. But again, that's just nitpicking that the guy who did Malcolm X, Training Day, and The Devil in a Blue Dress isn't doing that all the time. In other words, the only issue anyone can have with Denzel is their own greed he sometimes has base hits instead of grand slams. Nice breakdown (I think he's awesome in Book Of Eli though. What's not to love about Denzel playing a cross between The Man With No Name and Daredevil )Even though I kinda disagreed on some key elements of your breakdown on Hanks, I dug reading it. Interested to see your take on DiCaprio and Bridges.
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Post by mattfincher on Jun 19, 2020 2:37:10 GMT
The only Denzel film which wasn't that absolutely should have been a BP nominee is Malcolm X and it surely would have if it were directed by a white guy, or at least someone not as outspoken as Spike. But Fences shouldn't have been nominated imo, so that evens out. Philadelphia and Glory could have been BP nominees and I'd have been fine with it, but the factor they're not is no great loss imo. I think he's immensely talented, but I really don't think there's a claim he has some long list of robbed BP nominated films.
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Post by futuretrunks on Jun 19, 2020 2:42:31 GMT
Washington often has to will himself to a nomimation, as he's in less BP nomimated films (unfairly, as some of his films probably merited BP nods, but that's beside the point). But very few actors have ever committed an act of generosity so great to their co-star, by letting them coattail their way to an Oscar nomination, in a film that wouldn't have gotten near the Oscars, without his performance. I'm talking what he did for Ethan Hawke in Training Day. He made Hawke better, and brought him along for the ride (and an Oscar nod of his own). Even though, Washington played the domineering character, he didn't run roughshod over Hawke like Daniel Day-Lewis did Leonardo DiCaprio in Gangs Of New York. This is true and a myth - Washington being in films that weren't close to being BP contenders is a drawback and him being "better than his films" is a plus - he gets a lot of glitter for himself by being in lesser films but no one can say he has a filmography or co-stars opposite any of these 3 guys in the poll. I mean how is Abdi not an equivalent (or more) of Hawke for example for Hanks - and sure it's in a better movie (or a BP nodded film) but you can't hold that fact AGAINST Hanks simultaneously...... I mean no one is saying DW can't be generous either but it's a lesser as a metric for him clearly...... Only 5 people I think have gotten a nod in a film he's in (off the top of my head?) Dee, Caesar, Davis, Hawke, Hanks - how many of those did he allow to coattail - is that supposed to mean Davis? Hanks? Dee?......it just doesn't add up. Hawke is great in Training Day, and parries an amazing sparring partner over the course of the movie. Abdi is merely a meme in Captain Phillips. Props to Hanks as a campaigner, but he certainly didn't draw out some amazing performance from Abdi.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2020 2:50:29 GMT
The only Denzel film which wasn't that absolutely should have been a BP nominee is Malcolm X and it surely would have if it were directed by a white guy, or at least someone not as outspoken as Spike. But Fences shouldn't have been nominated imo, so that evens out. Philadelphia and Glory could have been BP nominees and I'd have been fine with it, but the factor they're not is no great loss imo. I think he's immensely talented, but I really don't think there's a claim he has some long list of robbed BP nominated films. I'd agree to disagree. Malcolm X obviously.I 100% think Glory should have been BP nodded. Especially in a universe where frigging Driving Miss Daisy won BP (they picked the wrong Morgan Freeman film that year). Things like American Gangster and Philidelphia are borderline for me, but lesser films than those get nominated all the time. Disagree on Fences as well. That was fully deserved, imho. Whether they were in realistic contention or not for BP acknowledgement, I think films like Devil In A Blue Dress, He Got Game, Inside Man, Flight, Training Day are a lot better than many films that do get Best Picture nominated.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jun 19, 2020 5:31:46 GMT
The only Denzel film which wasn't that absolutely should have been a BP nominee is Malcolm X and it surely would have if it were directed by a white guy, or at least someone not as outspoken as Spike. But Fences shouldn't have been nominated imo, so that evens out. Philadelphia and Glory could have been BP nominees and I'd have been fine with it, but the factor they're not is no great loss imo. I think he's immensely talented, but I really don't think there's a claim he has some long list of robbed BP nominated films. I'd agree to disagree. Malcolm X obviously.I 100% think Glory should have been BP nodded. Especially in a universe where frigging Driving Miss Daisy won BP (they picked the wrong Morgan Freeman film that year). Things like American Gangster and Philidelphia are borderline for me, but lesser films than those get nominated all the time. Disagree on Fences as well. That was fully deserved, imho. Whether they were in realistic contention or not for BP acknowledgement, I think films like Devil In A Blue Dress, He Got Game, Inside Man, Flight, Training Day are a lot better than many films that do get Best Picture nominated. I think several of Washington's thrillers / crowd-pleasers absolutely could have potentially been on my ballot if I was old enough to be an Oscar voter back in the day. I think Inside Man is one of the best films of 2006 period (I actually rewatched it a few days ago), just cause it's a great piece of entertainment, doesn't mean it's not a great film itself. Same with Crimson Tide, which in some ways, is possibly the most perfectly constructed film ever made.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 19, 2020 5:44:07 GMT
I'd agree to disagree. Malcolm X obviously.I 100% think Glory should have been BP nodded. Especially in a universe where frigging Driving Miss Daisy won BP (they picked the wrong Morgan Freeman film that year). Things like American Gangster and Philidelphia are borderline for me, but lesser films than those get nominated all the time. Disagree on Fences as well. That was fully deserved, imho. Whether they were in realistic contention or not for BP acknowledgement, I think films like Devil In A Blue Dress, He Got Game, Inside Man, Flight, Training Day are a lot better than many films that do get Best Picture nominated. I think several of Washington's thrillers / crowd-pleasers absolutely could have potentially been on my ballot if I was old enough to be an Oscar voter back in the day. I think Inside Man is one of the best films of 2006 period (I actually rewatched it a few days ago), just cause it's a great piece of entertainment, doesn't mean it's not a great film itself. Same with Crimson Tide, which in some ways, is possibly the most perfectly constructed film ever made. Yeah. Even a film like Courage Under Fire feels like it could be a solid mid-tier BP nominee in many years. And you are absolutely right about Crimson Tide.I think he has plenty of films that are BP calibre, regardless of if they actually got that attention.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jun 19, 2020 5:51:06 GMT
I think several of Washington's thrillers / crowd-pleasers absolutely could have potentially been on my ballot if I was old enough to be an Oscar voter back in the day. I think Inside Man is one of the best films of 2006 period (I actually rewatched it a few days ago), just cause it's a great piece of entertainment, doesn't mean it's not a great film itself. Same with Crimson Tide, which in some ways, is possibly the most perfectly constructed film ever made. Yeah. Even a film like Courage Under Fire feels like it could be a solid mid-tier BP nominee in many years. And you are absolutely right about Crimson Tide.I think he has plenty of films that are BP calibre, regardless of if they actually got that attention. Movies like American Gangster, The Great Debaters (released the same year, and possibly his most overlooked film, it's quite good), Crimson Tide, Malcolm X, and He Got Game would have been solid choices for best picture nominee had the academy done the ten best picture thing back then. Even his movies that aren't really Oscar caliber material like Man On Fire, are still elevated by his presence.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 20, 2020 5:56:09 GMT
LOL! How the fuck did DiCaprio go from dead last on this poll, to doubling his votes in the last couple of hours into 2nd place (while none of the other 3 actors got any more votes). What in the name of ballot stuffing... It's not that important at the end of the day, but it is kinda funny.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 20, 2020 6:07:28 GMT
LOL! How the fuck did DiCaprio go from dead last on this poll, to doubling his votes in the last couple of hours into 2nd place (while none of the other 3 actors got any more votes). What in the name of ballot stuffing... It's not that important at the end of the day, but it is kinda funny. My guess is these 6 guys down there in bold (who I've rarely seen on this board) got called up by a Leo dude, and decided to chip in to any effort they can to prop up their guy. It's no surprise a thread with Leo and Denzel in it is the most viewed and posted thread on the Polls section. I'm actually kinda surprised no crazies came out during the Watts, Kidman, Winslet thread which was the most viewed a few weeks ago. A thread with those names is guaranteed to bring out the zombies, just sayin'.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 20, 2020 6:13:12 GMT
LOL! How the fuck did DiCaprio go from dead last on this poll, to doubling his votes in the last couple of hours into 2nd place (while none of the other 3 actors got any more votes). What in the name of ballot stuffing... It's not that important at the end of the day, but it is kinda funny. My guess is these 6 guys down there in bold (who I've rarely seen on this board) got called up by a Leo dude, and decided to chip in to any effort they can to prop up their guy. It's no surprise a thread with Leo and Denzel in it is the most viewed and posted thread on the Polls section. I'm actually kinda surprised no crazies came out during the Watts, Kidman, Winslet thread which was the most viewed a few weeks ago. A thread with those names is guaranteed to bring out the zombies, just sayin'. Good catch, if true. What a shitshow
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Post by mattfincher on Jun 20, 2020 16:30:53 GMT
LOL! How the fuck did DiCaprio go from dead last on this poll, to doubling his votes in the last couple of hours into 2nd place (while none of the other 3 actors got any more votes). What in the name of ballot stuffing... It's not that important at the end of the day, but it is kinda funny. My guess is these 6 guys down there in bold (who I've rarely seen on this board) got called up by a Leo dude, and decided to chip in to any effort they can to prop up their guy. It's no surprise a thread with Leo and Denzel in it is the most viewed and posted thread on the Polls section. I'm actually kinda surprised no crazies came out during the Watts, Kidman, Winslet thread which was the most viewed a few weeks ago. A thread with those names is guaranteed to bring out the zombies, just sayin'. Leo really has the most unstable fanboys.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jun 20, 2020 17:22:23 GMT
Leo really has the most unstable fanboys. Says the Brad Pitt fanboy that has had psychotic breakdowns over criticisms against Brad Pitt in the past.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 20, 2020 19:23:28 GMT
Wouldn't it be great instead of (yet another) conspiracy theories that the reason DiCap maybe caught up is because I posted how he smokes all of these actors in factual film metrics already at age 45 (which he does - except maybe Hanks)? Not saying that makes him better (it doesn't) or that he should be winning this poll (not advocating for anyone in my own poll) but maybe, just maybe a good honest debate and dialog went into a poll of ours for once? ..........then again I still think Carole Baskin didn't kill her husband and that MsMovieStar regularly posts on here in the nude while drinking brandy.....so what do I know?
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Post by futuretrunks on Jun 20, 2020 23:35:24 GMT
I actually don't meet many Leo fanboys. I think people find it boring, for whatever reason.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 20, 2020 23:58:49 GMT
I actually don't meet many Leo fanboys. I think people find it boring, for whatever reason. Leo is an interesting case. He's objectively one of the biggest and most popular movie stars in the world, and has been for a long time, but he never makes the annual Harris Poll (harder to rig than this one maybe ) for America's Favorite Movie Star/Actor. It makes zero sense to me why he's never on it (not just never wins it, he's rarely in the top 10). That poll has been around for many decades. More often than not in the last twenty years, it's been won by Denzel or Hanks. At the peak of his post- Pirates popularity, Johnny Depp would win it a couple of times. John Wayne makes the top 10 every year, despite being dead for decades which is as weird as it is remarkable. Brad Pitt has been on the list several times, though never won, so I'm not sure how a similar calibre of star in DiCaprio is a constant omission. The only theory I got is that the people that vote on Harris Poll are turned off by his private life (the constant recycling of models under 25. That whole Pussy Posse thing may still haunt him as well). But that still feels like a weak explanation.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 21, 2020 0:13:40 GMT
I actually don't meet many Leo fanboys. I think people find it boring, for whatever reason. Leo is an interesting case. He's objectively one of the biggest and most popular movie stars in the world, and has been for a long time, but he never makes the annual Harris Poll (harder to rig than this one maybe ) for America's Favorite Movie Star/Actor. It makes zero sense to me why he's never on it (not just never wins it, he's rarely in the top 10). That poll has been around for many decades. More often than not in the last twenty years, it's been won by Denzel or Hanks. At the peak of his post- Pirates popularity, Johnny Depp would win it a couple of times. John Wayne makes the top 10 every year, despite being dead for decades which is as weird as it is remarkable. Brad Pitt has been on the list several times, though never won, so I'm not sure how a similar calibre of star in DiCaprio is a constant omission. The only theory I got is that the people that vote on Harris Poll are turned off by his private life (the constant recycling of models under 25. That whole Pussy Posse thing may still haunt him as well) DiCaprio is not Wayne or Pitt or Depp or Hanks in all time name recognition. Lots of people still refer to him as the Titanic guy. Or "whatever movie" guy. Everybody refers to Wayne, Depp, or Pitt by name. You have pop songs written about Wayne, Pitt or Depp but not DiCaprio. Some people do call Hanks..."him" a lot but for the most part hes definitely more well known than DiCaprio.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 21, 2020 0:24:07 GMT
Leo is an interesting case. He's objectively one of the biggest and most popular movie stars in the world, and has been for a long time, but he never makes the annual Harris Poll (harder to rig than this one maybe ) for America's Favorite Movie Star/Actor. It makes zero sense to me why he's never on it (not just never wins it, he's rarely in the top 10). That poll has been around for many decades. More often than not in the last twenty years, it's been won by Denzel or Hanks. At the peak of his post- Pirates popularity, Johnny Depp would win it a couple of times. John Wayne makes the top 10 every year, despite being dead for decades which is as weird as it is remarkable. Brad Pitt has been on the list several times, though never won, so I'm not sure how a similar calibre of star in DiCaprio is a constant omission. The only theory I got is that the people that vote on Harris Poll are turned off by his private life (the constant recycling of models under 25. That whole Pussy Posse thing may still haunt him as well) DiCaprio is not Wayne or Pitt or Depp or Hanks in all time name recognition. Lots of people still refer to him as the Titanic guy. Or "whatever movie" guy. Everybody refers to Wayne, Depp, or Pitt by name. You have pop songs written about Wayne, Pitt or Depp but not DiCaprio. Some people do call Hanks..."him" a lot but for the most part hes definitely more well known than DiCaprio. Ehhh.... This doesn't feel credible to me. DiCaprio is super famous (especially in America, where the Harris Poll is conducted). I guess it maybe suggests that he's not quite as beloved/respected by American audiences as we might think, despite being a huge movie star. I can understand that concept. I used to be up for watching Tom Cruise movies all the time, despite not really loving him as an actor. But I always knew for the most part, that Cruise made good movies, so I'd often pay for a ticket to his films. Leo may have that going for him. He's a huge star because people know he makes quality films, but come time for the Harris Poll survey, they have more regard for other actors.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 21, 2020 0:32:54 GMT
DiCaprio is not Wayne or Pitt or Depp or Hanks in all time name recognition. Lots of people still refer to him as the Titanic guy. Or "whatever movie" guy. Everybody refers to Wayne, Depp, or Pitt by name. You have pop songs written about Wayne, Pitt or Depp but not DiCaprio. Some people do call Hanks..."him" a lot but for the most part hes definitely more well known than DiCaprio. Ehhh.... This doesn't feel credible to me. DiCaprio is super famous (especially in America, where the Harris Poll is conducted). I guess it maybe suggests that he's not quite as beloved/respected by American audiences as we might think, despite being a huge movie star. I can understand that concept. I used to be up for watching Tom Cruise movies all the time, despite not really loving him as an actor. But I always knew for the most part, that Cruise made good movies, so I'd often pay for a ticket to his films. I haven't seen that poll and Im not referring to that poll but I just think Leo for the most part trails the legendary statuses of those names you mentioned. Not that hes in any way not famous or not one of the biggest draws. I just don't think he has the fame level or width of appeal and household name recognition of those other names. I think its because hes still relatively new. After Titanic, he disappeared for a while before finding Scorsese. But while The Departed was 14 years ago, I still think his long reigning tenure is shorter than those of the others you named who all brokethru before Leo did.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 21, 2020 0:44:58 GMT
Ehhh.... This doesn't feel credible to me. DiCaprio is super famous (especially in America, where the Harris Poll is conducted). I guess it maybe suggests that he's not quite as beloved/respected by American audiences as we might think, despite being a huge movie star. I can understand that concept. I used to be up for watching Tom Cruise movies all the time, despite not really loving him as an actor. But I always knew for the most part, that Cruise made good movies, so I'd often pay for a ticket to his films. I haven't seen that poll and Im not referring to that poll but I just think Leo for the most part trails the legendary statuses of those names you mentioned. Not that hes in any way not famous or not one of the biggest draws. I just don't think he has the fame level or width of appeal and household name recognition of those other names. I think its because hes still relatively new. After Titanic, he disappeared for a while before finding Scorsese. But while The Departed was 14 years ago, I still think his long reigning tenure is shorter than those of the others you named who all brokethru before Leo did. Well, here is the poll I was talking about. As I said, more often than not it's won by in the last 2 decades by Denzel or Hanks. Depp and Clint Eastwood have won in that timeframe as well. The poll is actually quite interesting. It lays out which Actors Americans prefer most by gender, political affiliation, age demographics etc. theharrispoll.com/hes-played-cops-and-criminals-fought-in-civil-war-engagements-walked-across-apocalyptic-wastelands-and-this-year-denzel-washington-is-once-again-americas-favorite-movie-star-this-is-the-fifth-ti/theharrispoll.com/his-roles-over-the-years-have-taken-him-into-the-past-and-the-future-out-into-space-and-even-into-a-childs-toy-chest-and-this-year-tom-hanks-currently-in-theaters-as-attorney-jame/
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jun 21, 2020 0:54:18 GMT
When it comes time for people to put their money where their mouth is and vote with their wallet, however, it seems DiCaprio is the one people want to part with their hard-earned cash to go watch a movie for.
At 39 years of age, DiCaprio had 9 appearances on the Quigley Poll for the Top Money Making Stars. At the same age, Tom Hanks had 5 appearances and Denzel Washington was neck and neck with Jeff Bridges at 0 appearances. And that's just American audiences voting! I think we all know how much bigger DiCaprio is overseas than he is domestically.
The highest grossing movie where Denzel Washington is the outright top-billed lead is Crimson Tide, which made $264M in today's money. For reference, that's less than the $287M that The Man in the Iron Mask made, which was a critical bomb made by a nobody. I don't know who is voting for Washington on the Harris Poll, but they're clearly not coming out to watch his movies like they are for Hanks and DiCaprio. Their box-office records and Quigley Poll listings demonstrate that.
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