Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 21, 2020 19:41:57 GMT
How many "classic" movies do you think these actresses have on their filmographies? According to Google, the word "classic" means "a work of art of recognized and established value". So this is in terms of general consensus and not necessarily your opinion. In addition to movies that you think are already considered classics, you may also choose to include recent movies that haven't had the time to gain classic status yet but seem destined to reach that status one day.
Sandra Bullock Nicole Kidman Julia Roberts Cate Blanchett Amy Adams Charlize Theron Marion Cotillard Kate Winslet
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 21, 2020 19:45:58 GMT
In my opinion, these are the classics these actresses have to their name:
Bullock: Gravity (1) Kidman: (0) Roberts: (0) Blanchett: The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (3) Adams: Catch Me If You Can (1) Theron: Mad Max: Fury Road (1) Cotillard: Inception (1) Winslet: Titanic, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2)
I was pretty tempted to include Eyes Wide Shut (which I consider to be a masterpiece) for Kidman and Arrival for Adams, but couldn't find enough justification for the former and the latter maybe needs to age a little more for me to be more confident in its path toward becoming a classic. Also considered Pretty Woman for Roberts, but I decided that while general audiences enjoy it, they don't really adore it.
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Post by stephen on Feb 21, 2020 19:58:32 GMT
YMMV on the definition of classic. I tried to go with a combination of quality, audience appeal, and staying power. Some of these films I definitely don't like, or I'm leaving off films that I adore, for one reason or another:
Sandra Bullock: Speed, Gravity (I considered Miss Congeniality, though, because it's got a huge fanbase.)
Nicole Kidman: Moulin Rouge! (I considered To Die For, Eyes Wide Shut, The Hours and Dogville, but I think they're overall too niche to be considered "classics" in the overall vein.)
Julia Roberts: Steel Magnolias, Pretty Woman (I considered Notting Hill and My Best Friend's Wedding much in the same way I did with Bullock's honorable mentions, though. Hook might also be a contender.)
Cate Blanchett: The Lord of the Rings trilogy. (For an actress whom I adore as much as her, I will admit that most of her films are either too niche or just don't have the overall staying power of her work in it.)
Amy Adams: I don't think she has one yet. Enchanted might be the closest she's come to in that respect. (Arrival could do it with time, but I don't get "landmark" film from it the way I wish it would.) (NOTE: I did forget The Master, ironically enough. It's probably second out of her films.)
Charlize Theron: Mad Max: Fury Road. See Blanchett.
Marion Cotillard: Inception. See Blanchett.
Kate Winslet: Titanic, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. (Maybe Sense and Sensibility if you're looking at best films in a given genre.)
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futuretrunks
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Post by futuretrunks on Feb 21, 2020 20:07:25 GMT
Bullock: Crash
Kidman: 0
Roberts: Pretty Woman
Blanchett: LOTR
Adams: 0
Theron: 0
Cotillard: 0
Winslet: Titanic
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Post by countjohn on Feb 21, 2020 21:50:50 GMT
Bullock- None to be honest Kidman- The Hours. Eyes Wide Shut is borderline just by virtue of being a Kubrick Roberts- Pretty Woman, Erin Brockovich, Ocean's 11 is borderline Blanchett- LOTR trilogy, but it's a supporting role. The Aviator (another supporting role) and Elizabeth might be borderline Adams- Catch Me If You Can (supporting role), Enchanted, The Master, Arrival might be one one day but it is too early to say Theron- None Cotillard- Inception (supporting role) Winslet- Titanic, maybe Branagh's Hamlet
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Feb 21, 2020 22:01:49 GMT
Bullock - I want to say Speed but I kinda feel like it's losing that spot over time.
Kidman - Moulin Rouge! easily and then I'd say Eyes Wide Shut is something of a niche classic.
Roberts - Pretty Woman, Erin Brockovich, and Ocean's 11.
Blanchett - The Lord of the Rings trilogy but that almost feels like cheating because she's not even one of the, what, first 10 things people think about when they think of those movies.
Adams - Catch Me If You Can and then maybe Enchanted could be but I want to see it cross generations first.
Theron - Mad Max: Fury Road and I say that fully confident it will maintain staying power.
Cotillard - Inception and The Dark Knight Rises.
Winslet - Titanic and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
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morton
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Post by morton on Feb 21, 2020 22:36:01 GMT
Bullock - I would say definitely Gravity. At first I did consider Speed a classic, but I do wonder if mikediastavrone96 is right, I feel like it's not thought of as a modern classic like it was at one time.
Kidman - Moulin Rouge! Maybe Eyes Wide Shut because it was Stanley Kubrick's last film, and maybe The Hours just because it was able to bring 3 legendary actresses together.
Roberts - For Good God, certainly Ocean's Eleven and Ocean's Twelve, lol. Seriously I guess Pretty Woman. I feel that some of it is still iconic like one of the outfits that Roberts's character wore that many women like I think Miley Cyrus or her sister, copied for Halloween.
Blanchett - Certainly the LOTR trilogy, but I would also include Carol. I would also include Blue Jasmine even if it's not something like Annie Hall or Manhattan because it will probably be remembered as the last time that award groups based in America were okay with awarding Woody Allen.
Adams - I would consider The Master, Her, and Catch Me If You Can classics. Enchanted is borderline. I love it, but I feel because of licensing problems because Disney didn't want to have to pay Adams to use her likeness that they try to keep people from remembering about Giselle being a Disney Princess.
Theron - Definitely Mad Max: Fury Road. Maybe Kubo and the Two Strings if you count animated films. Other than Fury Road, I could see her appearance in Arrested Development being one of her few classics in her filmography.
Cotillard - Inception. Maybe Midnight in Paris because it's Woody Allen.
Winslet - Titanic and Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind. I also feel like maybe Heavenly Creatures is a minor classic.
For the poll, I went with Adams just because it seems unfair to count the LOTR trilogy as three different movies for Blanchett, and I could see people disagreeing about Carol and even Blue Jasmine. On the other hand, I think there will be less discussion about Adams's classics.
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Post by quetee on Feb 21, 2020 22:40:09 GMT
Im sorry but naming movies that are ten years old or less is wrong.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 21, 2020 22:46:40 GMT
Roberts - For Good God, certainly Ocean's Eleven and Ocean's Twelve, lol. Seriously I guess Pretty Woman. I feel that some of it is still iconic like one of the outfits that Roberts's character wore that many women like I think Miley Cyrus or her sister, copied for Halloween. I actually think Ocean's Eleven is arguable, if you lower the bar for "classic" a little. I think audiences love it enough for it to be among the definitive heist movies in recent memory. Its all-star lineup (which is fairly rare in the modern era) should help with its staying power. But, anecdotally, I feel like people don't talk about it as much as they used to anymore. The sequels are seen as inferior rehashes, so they're out of contention.
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futuretrunks
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Post by futuretrunks on Feb 21, 2020 22:58:06 GMT
Yo! Make another thread for actors!
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 22, 2020 0:18:03 GMT
Yo! Make another thread for actors! Lot more actors to sift through, but I'll maybe do it a little later. You're free to do it if you want to!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 0:49:42 GMT
Of this group, it’s Winslet.
Sense and Sensibility Titanic Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
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Post by mattfincher on Feb 22, 2020 1:51:40 GMT
I excluded basically everything with an average Letterboxd rating of under 3.7 (to me, a classic needs at least some strong support among cinephiles) or films that are too niche.
Bullock: Are you guys sure Gravity is actually a classic? Its Letterboxd rating has collapsed in subsequent years (3.58 is very bad for a film that had such incredible acclaim upon release). I think it's just a movie/experience that gets destroyed when removed from the big screen. Speed is probably the one I'd go to bat for first, but even then, I'm not sure. That was a cable classic, but nobody has cable anymore...
Kidman: Her niche taste really hurts her here. Moulin Rouge is probably the only one I could even argue, but I'm not sure it has enough appeal among either cinephiles (3.66 average Letterboxd rating) or general audiences to justify it.
Roberts: Eh, tough to say. I get the argument for excluding Ocean's 11, but it does have strong Letterboxd and IMDB ratings and has a bunch of superstars being charming for 2 hours. Unfortunately, it's another case of being hurt by cable not really being a thing anymore. That's the only one I'd make an argument for.
Blanchett: All three LOTR, obviously.
Adams: Catch Me If You Can, maybe? Again, feels like one that's been hurt by cable basically being eliminated so that could go either way. Very strong IMDB and Letterboxd scores though, so I'll give it to her. I could hear an argument for Arrival, too.
Theron: Mad Max.
Cotillard: Inception.
Winslet: Titanic, obviously. I'll give her Eternal Sunshine, too.
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Post by mattfincher on Feb 22, 2020 2:08:29 GMT
Yo! Make another thread for actors! I mean, the number of options would be too many and the answer would be too obvious with DiCaprio (unless we're including Hanks, but he might fall out of the age range that Good God implemented here). You'd probably have to break that up into generations (or decades they were born in).
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 22, 2020 2:23:42 GMT
I mean, the number of options would be too many and the answer would be too obvious with DiCaprio (unless we're including Hanks, but he might fall out of the age range that Good God implemented here). You'd probably have to break that up into generations (or decades they were born in). The options are definitely too many (in terms of both number of actors and their number of classics), but I don't think the answer is too obvious. I'd leave out Hanks because of his age, but Cruise, Pitt, and DiCaprio would be fairly close. Cruise because his best films were a long time ago and have had the time to build up classic status, and Pitt and DiCaprio for obvious reasons. I prefer DiCaprio's filmography because its precisely my kind of thing (I feel like he almost always makes the choices I would if I were in his position, which is the primary reason he's my favorite actor), but I think DiCaprio's and Pitt's filmographies are both evenly esteemed when you consider all factors and metrics. You could choose one over the other depending on how you value industry acclaim, critics acclaim, cinephile acclaim, and general audience acclaim, but that's just splitting hairs to me.
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Post by mattfincher on Feb 22, 2020 2:50:40 GMT
I mean, the number of options would be too many and the answer would be too obvious with DiCaprio (unless we're including Hanks, but he might fall out of the age range that Good God implemented here). You'd probably have to break that up into generations (or decades they were born in). The options are definitely too many (in terms of both number of actors and their number of classics), but I don't think the answer is too obvious. I'd leave out Hanks because of his age, but Cruise, Pitt, and DiCaprio would be fairly close. Cruise because his best films were a long time ago and have had the time to build up classic status, and Pitt and DiCaprio for obvious reasons. I prefer DiCaprio's filmography because its precisely my kind of thing (I feel like he almost always makes the choices I would if I were in his position, which is the primary reason he's my favorite actor), but I think DiCaprio's and Pitt's filmographies are both evenly esteemed when you consider all factors and metrics. You could choose one over the other depending on how you value industry acclaim, critics acclaim, cinephile acclaim, and general audience acclaim, but that's just splitting hairs to me. The problem with Pitt's filmography is a lot of his films held in high regard are very niche in their acclaim (Jesse James, Tree of Life, hell even Once Upon a Time in Hollywood has proven to be way more of a cinephile than audience favorite). He has three that are inarguable (Se7en, Fight Club, and Basterds), but after that, there's four or five where it's entirely subjective and depends how much you value cinephile/critical plaudits/appreciation in your evaluation. I think critics actually like and admire the variance of Pitt's career the best out of the three. I certainly don't recall Cruise or DiCaprio getting the type of career retrospective articles from top tier/snobby critics that Pitt received this past year. And he is the only one to win with any of the three major critics groups (if you exclude DiCaprio's LAFCA New Generation award). And Pitt's won three times, twice in 2011, and once this past year. However, DiCaprio easily bests him with the general public and I think at least slightly with cinephiles. Cruise is tricky because he has a lot of films that have been able to hold up over time, but he doesn't have a single film in the IMDB Top 250 and has only one with a Letterboxd rating of at least 4.0 (and it's one he has a supporting, albeit iconic/instrumental role in). We can argue the merits of such metrics, but I do think you need some semblance of cinephile/artistic clout to justify being deemed a classic. I think in a consensus poll among cinephiles who put more emphasis on the types of movies DiCaprio and Pitt have done in their careers, Cruise would definitely rank third. Certainly if you went primarily by average Letterboxd and IMDB scores, he would. But with the general public? I could see him ranking at least ahead of Pitt in some circles. So, it's probably: Critics: Pitt, with DiCaprio and Cruise roughly equal in second. Cinephiles: DiCaprio, but I could hear the argument for Pitt. He did narrowly beat DiCaprio in a poll on AwardsWorthy about this very topic. General Public: DiCaprio, but I could hear the argument for Cruise.
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futuretrunks
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Post by futuretrunks on Feb 22, 2020 3:16:16 GMT
Yo! Make another thread for actors! I mean, the number of options would be too many and the answer would be too obvious with DiCaprio (unless we're including Hanks, but he might fall out of the age range that Good God implemented here). You'd probably have to break that up into generations (or decades they were born in). Sure. Frankly, I only consider Titanic and The Departed "classics". I can scream at people about Revolutionary Road all I want, but that's a niche movie. Catch Me is a well-liked movie that has "aged" well, but it's not some Gladiator-level film in the popular consciousness. etc.
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Post by mattfincher on Feb 22, 2020 3:19:23 GMT
I mean, the number of options would be too many and the answer would be too obvious with DiCaprio (unless we're including Hanks, but he might fall out of the age range that Good God implemented here). You'd probably have to break that up into generations (or decades they were born in). Sure. Frankly, I only consider Titanic and The Departed "classics". Well, I'd be more loose than you. I'd definitely give him Inception and probably Wolf of Wall Street and Django as well, at the very least.
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Post by mattfincher on Feb 22, 2020 4:10:14 GMT
Pitt/DiCaprio/Cruise films in the TSPDT's Top 1000 of the 21st Century.
Pitt: #5: The Tree of Life #91: Inglourious Basterds #112: 12 Years a Slave #132: Once Upon a Time in Hollywood #169: Assassination of Jesse James #517: Babel #578: Moneybal #769: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button #784: Burn After Reading #798: Ocean's Eleven #852: Ad Astra #859: Snatch #898: The Big Short
DiCaprio: #115: The Wolf of Wall Street #129: Inception #132: Once Upon a Time in Hollywood #143: The Departed #345: Gangs of New York #354: The Aviator #361: Django Unchained #712: The Revenant #831: Revolutionary Road #869: Shutter Island #916: Catch Me If You Can
Cruise: #330: Minority Report #457: Collateral #599: War of the Worlds #707: Edge of Tomorrow #733: Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol #873: Mission Impossible: Fallout
Yeah, it's getting hard to make the case for Cruise when he entirely lacks the snob/cinephile side at this point. He does have two highly rated films in the Top 1000 overall, though.
Overall:
Cruise: #256: Magnolia #336: Eyes Wide Shut
Pitt: #218: The Tree of Life #458: Fight Club #541: Se7en #759: Thelma and Louise #857: Inglourious Basterds
DiCaprio: #675: Titanic
Obviously not fair to Leo who didn't have much from the 90s, but Pitt is clearly winning in the snobs' eyes as of now.
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Post by Film Socialism on Feb 22, 2020 6:29:32 GMT
Pitt/DiCaprio/Cruise films in the TSPDT's Top 1000 of the 21st Century. Pitt: #5: The Tree of Life #91: Inglourious Basterds #112: 12 Years a Slave #132: Once Upon a Time in Hollywood #169: Assassination of Jesse James #517: Babel #578: Moneybal #769: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button #784: Burn After Reading #798: Ocean's Eleven #852: Ad Astra #859: Snatch #898: The Big Short DiCaprio: #115: The Wolf of Wall Street #129: Inception #132: Once Upon a Time in Hollywood #143: The Departed #345: Gangs of New York #354: The Aviator #361: Django Unchained #712: The Revenant #831: Revolutionary Road #869: Shutter Island #916: Catch Me If You Can Cruise: #330: Minority Report #457: Collateral #599: War of the Worlds #707: Edge of Tomorrow #733: Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol #873: Mission Impossible: Fallout Yeah, it's getting hard to make the case for Cruise when he entirely lacks the snob/cinephile side at this point. He does have two highly rated films in the Top 1000 overall, though. Overall: Cruise: #256: Magnolia #336: Eyes Wide Shut Pitt: #218: The Tree of Life #458: Fight Club #541: Se7en #759: Thelma and Louise #857: Inglourious Basterds DiCaprio: #675: Titanic Obviously not fair to Leo who didn't have much from the 90s, but Pitt is clearly winning in the snobs' eyes as of now. as the resident snob i have always felt like the deeper you get into cinephilia the more cruise is valued, at least in the last few years. digital mann has undergone a huge boon and he's probably one of the biggest winners of the still ongoing VA movement, with Collateral being a big one there. the last Mission Impossible has had a ton of street cred among diehard genre heads. late spielberg which utilized him a lot has kinda picked up in these circles too, ditto de palma's "lesser" films like the original M:I. & i tend to see not as much for dicaprio or pitt (to a lesser extent) in terms of upward trajectory of their prior works. but that's basing it more on my experiences and friends.
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Post by countjohn on Feb 22, 2020 8:20:28 GMT
mattfincher If we're talking purely from a arthouse/snob/cinephile angle Cruise at least has Eyes Wide Shut and Magnolia which is more than either of them have (just Tree of Life for Pitt and pretty much nothing for Leo). Then the list of directors Cruise has worked with rivals anyone, ever. He has a much better filmography than either of them IMO and was regularly cited as having a great filmography as late as the late 2010's. When I see people crap on Cruise I have to wonder if they are just young and not familiar with the first three decades of his career before the 2000's. He used to work in every genre under the sun and almost always with a great or A-list director. He's not "just an action guy" as so many people say now.
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Post by mattfincher on Feb 22, 2020 14:27:29 GMT
mattfincher If we're talking purely from a arthouse/snob/cinephile angle Cruise at least has Eyes Wide Shut and Magnolia which is more than either of them have (just Tree of Life for Pitt and pretty much nothing for Leo). Then the list of directors Cruise has worked with rivals anyone, ever. He has a much better filmography than either of them IMO and was regularly cited as having a great filmography as late as the late 2010's. When I see people crap on Cruise I have to wonder if they are just young and not familiar with the first three decades of his career before the 2000's. He used to work in every genre under the sun and almost always with a great or A-list director. He's not "just an action guy" as so many people say now. Your opinion is nice, but there’s literally no objective method of evaluation that supports Cruise as of now other than maybe box office and that’s always a murky evaluative method. Not Letterboxd, not IMDB, not TSPST (yes, he may have two films highly rated overall, but his output this century is quite poor compared to the other two). I mean, I don’t know how you can ignore that Pitt and DiCaprio have 4-5 films each inside the top 170 (I’ll concede giving Pitt 12 Years a Slave is dubious despite his producing contributions) from this century and Cruise’s highest ranked film is #330. He didn’t even have a film crack the Top 700 from this past decade on the century list.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:01:33 GMT
I’m surprised no one is listing ‘The Others’ for Kidman. I’d say that and ‘Moulin Rouge!’ are her most classic films.
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Post by TerryMontana on Feb 22, 2020 15:17:21 GMT
Bullock: 2 - Gravity, Speed Kidman: 3 - Dogville, Moulin Rouge, Eyes Wide Shut Roberts: 2 - Notting Hill, Pretty Woman Blanchett: 3 - Blue Jasmine, Benjamin Button, The Aviator. Not counting the Hobbits and LOTR. Not "her" movies. Adams: 3 - Catch Me If You Can, The Master, The Fighter Theron: 1 - Mad Max: Fury Road Cotillard: 2 - Inception, Big Fish Winslet: 2 - Titanic, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
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Post by stephen on Feb 22, 2020 15:28:00 GMT
I’m surprised no one is listing ‘The Others’ for Kidman. I’d say that and ‘Moulin Rouge!’ are her most classic films. I love The Others but in no way is that a mainstream classic. More of a hidden gem than anything.
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