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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 16:57:02 GMT
WikiIn order to be eligible, an actor must have had a significant screen presence in American feature-length (40 min or more) films whose screen debut occurred in or before 1950, or whose screen debut occurred after 1950 but whose death has marked a completed body of work. Remember, the list was first compiled in 1999, so the likes of Paul Newman would not have been eligible. I'll start... Please add! FEMALEOlivia de Havilland Hedy Lamarr Gene Tierney Lana Turner Natalie Wood MALEMontgomery Clift
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 3, 2020 17:09:38 GMT
Irene Dunne
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Post by mrimpossible on Feb 3, 2020 17:39:13 GMT
Anna Magnani.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 1:45:10 GMT
Mickey Rooney is a surprising omission, right? He was the biggest star in the world in the early 40s.
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Post by dadsburgers on Jul 14, 2020 1:59:53 GMT
John Cazale
Thomas Mitchell
Gloria Swanson
Hattie McDaniel
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demille
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Post by demille on Jul 14, 2020 8:39:39 GMT
Douglas Fairbanks
Tyrone Power
Errol Flynn
Rudolph Valentino
Lon Chaney
Myrna Loy
Deborah Kerr
Clara Bow
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 14, 2020 9:06:26 GMT
Mickey Rooney is a surprising omission, right? He was the biggest star in the world in the early 40s. lost a lot of relevance by the time the list was drawn up in 1999. It sometimes feels like he's best remembered nowadays for his racist Japanese caricature performance in Breakfast At Tiffany's. I wouldn't call him a suprising omission, as I don't think his legacy stood the test of time. I think Errol Flynn might be the biggest male omission. Guy was a huge movie star, and with things like The Adventures Of Robin Hood and Captain Blood, he remains arguably cinema's quintessential iconic adventure/swashbuckler movie star. He probably just missed the cut. |
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 14, 2020 9:25:04 GMT
It's quite remarkable Bogart persisted so well.
I dunno, but it just seems like he's the type of guy to be forgotten once his shtick was old news. But noooooo.... he's the #1 ranked star by a 1999 poll.
I heard stories about how he was old news by the 50s. When Brando, Dean, and Clift came along...... all the "cool" actors wanted to see Brando and he was the one to draw a clique crowd. Seemed like the only people still into Bogart by then were his old fans in the 30s and 40s so he still fortunately had a job. Billy Wilder was obligated into casting him in Sabrina, and even said he was a limited actor.
I get how Laurence Olivier persisted. He was a long enduring actor and was around as late as the 80s, but Bogart despite dying 40 years before the list was made.... was still voted #1.
I do think, however, part of the reason for that is because of the classic Casablanca became. I mean... of the Top 10, only Stewart, Brando, Gable, and possibly Chaplin have classics as strong. Stewart had Vertigo, Hitchcock classics, and It's a Wonderful Life. Gable had Gone With the Wind. And Brando had The Godfather. I don't think A Streetcar Named Desire or On the Waterfront is the equal of Casablanca though. Casablanca is usually the more recognized film than both of those. No offense to the guys in the Top 10, but most common folks can't even name one film Fonda, Cagney, Astaire, and Tracy were in.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 14, 2020 9:50:20 GMT
It's quite remarkable Bogart persisted so well.
I dunno, but it just seems like he's the type of guy to be forgotten once his shtick was old news. But noooooo.... he's the #1 ranked star by a 1999 poll. I heard stories about how he was old news by the 50s. When Brando, Dean, and Clift came along...... all the "cool" actors wanted to see Brando and he was the one to draw a clique crowd. Seemed like the only people still into Bogart by then were his old fans in the 30s and 40s so he still fortunately had a job. Billy Wilder was obligated into casting him in Sabrina, and even said he was a limited actor. I get how Laurence Olivier persisted. He was a long enduring actor and was around as late as the 80s, but Bogart despite dying 40 years before the list was made.... was still voted #1. I do think, however, part of the reason for that is because of the classic Casablanca became. I mean... of the Top 10, only Stewart, Brando, Gable, and possibly Chaplin have classics as strong. Stewart had Vertigo, Hitchcock classics, and It's a Wonderful Life. Gable had Gone With the Wind. And Brando had The Godfather. I don't think A Streetcar Named Desire or On the Waterfront is the equal of Casablanca though. Casablanca is usually the more recognized film than both of those. No offense to the guys in the Top 10, but most common folks can't even name one film Fonda, Cagney, Astaire, and Tracy were in. You have to remember, the AFI poll isn't a general public poll. It's voted on by a combination of people who work in the industry (actors, writers, producers, directors etc), film critics, and notable public figures. Essentially, it's an industry poll, voted on by a high percentage of film buffs. Casablanca certainly helps, but I think most of the people voting have a deeper knowledge of film than your average person. Bogart is an iconic film star, the face of film noir (a genre film buffs adore) and made a lot of movies film buffs love. I believe that's what got him the top spot. Would Bogart be number 1 if it was the general public voting? I doubt it (he'd probably still be in the top 10 though). As per usual, it'd probably be John Wayne (only 13 on the AFI poll, which shows the disparity between how Wayne is seen by the public compared to industry) , and he hasn't got a film singularly as recognisable to general audiences as Casablanca or The Godfather or Gone With The Wind. Wayne wins easily with general audiences on the appeal of his movie star persona and a bunch of films they like him in, more than any single "classic" movie. |
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 14, 2020 10:07:00 GMT
It's quite remarkable Bogart persisted so well.
I dunno, but it just seems like he's the type of guy to be forgotten once his shtick was old news. But noooooo.... he's the #1 ranked star by a 1999 poll. I heard stories about how he was old news by the 50s. When Brando, Dean, and Clift came along...... all the "cool" actors wanted to see Brando and he was the one to draw a clique crowd. Seemed like the only people still into Bogart by then were his old fans in the 30s and 40s so he still fortunately had a job. Billy Wilder was obligated into casting him in Sabrina, and even said he was a limited actor. I get how Laurence Olivier persisted. He was a long enduring actor and was around as late as the 80s, but Bogart despite dying 40 years before the list was made.... was still voted #1. I do think, however, part of the reason for that is because of the classic Casablanca became. I mean... of the Top 10, only Stewart, Brando, Gable, and possibly Chaplin have classics as strong. Stewart had Vertigo, Hitchcock classics, and It's a Wonderful Life. Gable had Gone With the Wind. And Brando had The Godfather. I don't think A Streetcar Named Desire or On the Waterfront is the equal of Casablanca though. Casablanca is usually the more recognized film than both of those. No offense to the guys in the Top 10, but most common folks can't even name one film Fonda, Cagney, Astaire, and Tracy were in. You have to remember, the AFI poll isn't a general public poll. It's voted on by a combination of people who work in the industry (actors, writers, producers, directors etc), film critics, and notable public figures. Essentially, it's an industry poll, voted on by a high percentage of film buffs. Casablanca certainly helps, but I think most of the people voting have a deeper knowledge of film than your average person. Bogart is an iconic film star, the face of film noir (a genre film buffs adore) and made a lot of movies film buffs love. I believe that's what got him the top spot. Would Bogart be number 1 if it was the general public voting? I doubt it (he'd probably still be in the top 10 though). As per usual, it'd probably be John Wayne (only 13 on the AFI poll, which shows the disparity between how Wayne is seen by the public compared to industry) , and he hasn't got a film singularly as recognisable to general audiences as Casablanca or The Godfather or Gone With The Wind. Wayne wins easily with general audiences on the appeal of his movie star persona and a bunch of films they like him in, more than any single "classic" movie. I think Bogart had enough major classics to be #1 on this list. I think that's the aspect that he has over Wayne. Where Wayne is bigger by aura, Bogart has the stronger classics...... like Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, and The Big Sleep. But Casablanca holds a really large weight. Not that Wayne doesn't have the classics, but I dunno....I always saw John Wayne as more niche than Bogart. Where Bogart seems like the guy you like because you like old movies, Wayne seems like the guy you like because you like westerns. Because as you say, I don't see Wayne by his individual films, whereas that's kinda how I see Bogart. Bogart is defined by his individual films. Wayne to me is not. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 14, 2020 14:15:04 GMT
Now that I think of it, Bing Crosby might be as big an omission as Flynn. Maybe even bigger. The guy was never exactly "cool", but he was a huge star, and I think his legacy survives pretty well today with things like White Christmas and High Society.
He was one of the great light comedy and musical stars, and a pretty solid (and Oscar winning) dramatic actor.
#JusticeForBing
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jul 14, 2020 16:12:13 GMT
Now that I think of it, Bing Crosby might be as big an ommission as Flynn. Maybe even bigger. The guy was never exactly "cool", but he was a huge star, and I think his legacy survives pretty well today with things like White Christmas and High Society.He was one of the great light comedy and musical stars, and a pretty solid (and Oscar winning) dramatic actor. # JusticeForBingCrosby's a good omission. He's both a highly regarded singer (I remember growing-up with his Christmas album), and also was a very successful well-liked actor and performer. What probably hurts him as far as the AFI is concerned is that in spite of his Oscar win, a lot of his films were regarded as popular fluff, something I can't 100% disagree with it, but at the same time movies like The Bells of St. Mary, and White Christmas should be more then enough to have considered for the "top stars" list. He's also probably still the most successful singer to ever make it in the movies too. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 14, 2020 16:35:25 GMT
Now that I think of it, Bing Crosby might be as big an ommission as Flynn. Maybe even bigger. The guy was never exactly "cool", but he was a huge star, and I think his legacy survives pretty well today with things like White Christmas and High Society.He was one of the great light comedy and musical stars, and a pretty solid (and Oscar winning) dramatic actor. # JusticeForBingCrosby's a good omission. He's both a highly regarded singer (I remember growing-up with his Christmas album), and also was a very successful well-liked actor and performer. What probably hurts him as far as the AFI is concerned is that in spite of his Oscar win, a lot of his films were regarded as popular fluff, something I can't 100% disagree with it, but at the same time movies like The Bells of St. Mary, and White Christmas should be more then enough to have considered for the "top stars" list. He's also probably still the most successful singer to ever make it in the movies too. I can't disagree with a lot of Crosby's films being popular fluff, but I could probably make that same argument about Fred Astaire (who is on the AFI list). And Astaire never won a competitive Oscar like Crosby. |
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jul 14, 2020 17:07:24 GMT
Crosby's a good omission. He's both a highly regarded singer (I remember growing-up with his Christmas album), and also was a very successful well-liked actor and performer. What probably hurts him as far as the AFI is concerned is that in spite of his Oscar win, a lot of his films were regarded as popular fluff, something I can't 100% disagree with it, but at the same time movies like The Bells of St. Mary, and White Christmas should be more then enough to have considered for the "top stars" list. He's also probably still the most successful singer to ever make it in the movies too. I can't disagree with a lot of Crosby's films being popular fluff, but I could probably make that same argument about Fred Astaire (who is on the AFI list). And Astaire never won a competitive Oscar like Crosby. That is completely fair, and it was a much different era. Actors couldn't just pick and choose their projects nilly-willy, because of studio contracts. So while Bing mostly did a lot of musicals because singing was his thing, he probably had bigger ambitions too, he just didn't always get to show it. |
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Post by countjohn on Jul 14, 2020 17:44:58 GMT
Deborah Kerr, OdH, and Myrna Loy were pretty big omissions from the women's list. James Mason maybe could have made the men's list.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2020 14:09:45 GMT
No Rosalind Russell?!
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Post by pupdurcs on Oct 5, 2020 21:09:34 GMT
I've previously argued for Errol Flynn and Bing Crosby being the biggest male omissions.
Then I realised Charlton Heston was eligible for inclusion, and didn't get in. He has to be the biggest snub. An Oscar winning actor, and an absolute icon of classic cinema, especially with things like Ben-Hur, The Ten Commandments, Planet Of The Apes, El Cid, The Big Country. A lot of his films are still relevant and popular todaym And it's not like he fell from grace with the public for his personal behavior like a Mel Gibson.
Now people can argue that his acting style could be a bit stiff and rigid, but that didn't prevent the wooden Gary Cooper from being included, and Gregory Peck, who often veered into stiff and rigid territory himself, despite many good works.
Heston's exculsion likely seems based on his politics. At the height of voting for this list, Heston was the spokesman and President of the NRA (National Rifle Association). Most people in the industry are left leaning and vehemently against Heston's political affiliation. Yes, a notorious right-winger like John Wayne made the list, but he was long dead and no longer around to remind voters how much they despised his politics. No such luck for Chuck, who was very alive and outspoken when the list was voted on..
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