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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 30, 2022 18:27:58 GMT
Eh...all the big 3 have had opportunities to play slams without the others there, and ultimately nobody givesva shit as long as they win it. Djokovic gladly accepted the opportunity to try and win the US Open in 2020, when Nadal (the best US Open player of the previous 10 years) decided not to travel to New York due to the pandemic. Nadal was healthy enough to play, he just chose not to and handed an advantage to Djokovic (which he should have nailed). Had Djokovic won that US Open without Nadal present, nobody would have put an asterisk next to it or started crying that it didn't count because he didn't beat the strongest player at that slam because he chose not to be there  . Djokovic would just have 1 more slam, and deservedly so, and history wouldn't give a flying fuck that Nadal wasn't present. You play who is in front of you, for whatever the reason. Djokovic screwed a perfect opportunity to win there by slamming a lineswoman in the face with his ball in anger. He screwed his opportunity to play in Australia this year by trying to lie his way into to the country to circumvent their pandemic rules. His fault, his problem. If Djokovic wants to keep playing Grand Slams and keep the record from Nadal, he should get vaccinated like the rest of the top 100. Otherwise, no one (aside from mostly Serbians) will give a shit and he'll finish his career regarded 2nd behind Nadal. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 30, 2022 18:52:43 GMT
Nadal playing through injuries and losing is not the same as someone being forbidden by the tournament from playing. No one thinks that is the same thing............they are different in every way. Now I'm not saying Djoko should have been allowed to play either tournament - read the threadm - but that's not the same thing so again that's
very specious reasoning ............purposely so...............also the word " debatable" does not mean what you think it means - the same way "ridiculous" does not mean what you think it means either........ no one is debating Djokovic's health at all here. When you start getting into "how injured was Djokovic really" you've entered into the realm of conspiracy theories and QANON of tennis mumbo jumbo. Agree to disagree..........  Don't mind him. He's got that perpetual hater energy. Always has and always will  . Imagine having anything negative to say about a player as incredible as Nadal, purely in sporting terms (he's been spouting the clay merchant/one court wonder bullshit for years.lol). I think Djokovic is a lousy human being, but as a tennis player and athlete, the guy deserves nothing but respect. Same for Federer. You can think one is better than the others, and that is fair enough but the disrespect to Nadal is just plain weird. |
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jan 30, 2022 19:16:28 GMT
Even if they didn't win, Lorenzo Sonego, Matteo Berrettini and Camila Giorgi were the most attractive players in the tournament. Ha.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 30, 2022 19:21:44 GMT
Don't blame me for being able to argue coherently and have a logical POV - if you are going to call my POV "ridiculous" then I'm going to dismantle your POV - so you better back it up. When you don't ............someone is going to call me "salty" because of it. Shrug.......I didn't ask him to reply to my post........too bad........ Didn't say anything bad about Nadal - just said he won 2 slams without Djoko, healthy, where Djoko was the #1 seed, and would have been favorite.
Those are facts - that ONLY apply to Djoko - not to "all 3 of them" - obviouslyI said Nadal's the 3rd GOAT.......and he will likely finish as 2nd in slams is my guess.......so he'd be considered the 2nd GOAT.......maybe 1st as it stands atm. It's a marathon........not a sprint....... Congratulations to Nadal today........and stay focused on what Nadal did today .....and not pacinoyes - who that ^ dude is obsessed with - still! |
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Post by brancaleone on Jan 30, 2022 20:13:06 GMT
Don't blame me for being able to argue coherently and have a logical POV - if you are going to call my POV "ridiculous" then I'm going to dismantle your POV - so you better back it up. When you don't ............someone is going to call me "salty" because of it. Shrug.......I didn't ask him to reply to my post........too bad........ Didn't say anything bad about Nadal - just said he won 2 slams without Djoko, healthy, where Djoko was the #1 seed, and would have been favorite.
Those are facts - that ONLY apply to Djoko - not to "all 3 of them" - obviouslyI said Nadal's the 3rd GOAT.......and he will likely finish as 2nd in slams is my guess.......so he'd be considered the 2nd GOAT.......maybe 1st as it stands atm. It's a marathon........not a sprint....... Congratulations to Nadal today........and stay focused on what Nadal did today .....and not pacinoyes - who that ^ dude is obsessed with - still! Don't blame me for being able to argue coherently and have a logical POV - if you are going to call my POV "ridiculous" then I'm going to dismantle your POV - so you better back it up. When you don't ............someone is going to call me "salty" because of it. You are completely detached from reality if you think you have dismantled anything I've said. You made an idiotic comment and I exposed you as a sad, bitter and hypocritical hater who can't cope with Nadal being the front runner in the G.O.A.T. race.
Shrug.......I didn't ask him to reply to my post........too bad........ I'm not sure you understand the concept of an open forum, but, anyway the idiocy of your comment required rebuttal.
Didn't say anything bad about Nadal - just said he won 2 slams without Djoko, healthy, where Djoko was the #1 seed, and would have been favorite.
a) As I have repeatedly mentioned, Djokovic himself has competed in and won many tournaments when Nadal was absent because of injuries or has gotten injured throughout the tournament. Hell, he won his last 2 GS without healthy Nadal but you are being completely silent about that for whatever reason. b) If you think that hEaLTHy Djokovic would have been the favourite against Rafa at RG then you are an even bigger idiot than I previously believed. No one is the favourite against Rafa at RG. Period.
Congratulations to Nadal today........and stay focused on what Nadal did today .....and not pacinoyes - who that ^ dude is obsessed with - still! Cope harder, sunshine.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 30, 2022 20:16:04 GMT
Even if they didn't win, Lorenzo Sonego, Matteo Berrettini and Camila Giorgi were the most attractive players in the tournament. Ha. Always loved her - she's an all timer in looks and style in female tennis.......  |
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Post by DaleCooper on Jan 30, 2022 20:26:48 GMT
Pretty good match, although very up and down in quality. Credit to Nadal for turning it around, incredible fight from him, but Medvedev basically shat his pants today. From being so comfortably ahead and the better player to making so many inexplicable decisions in important situations. He should never have lost this match and he has only himself to blame. Interesting now in the slam race, Nadal might be out 2 ahead after French, but Djokovic might come back strong. Djokovic should have a few years left as being one of the favorites in most slams, this might have been Nadal's last one outside of French.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 30, 2022 20:32:50 GMT
Don't blame me for being able to argue coherently and have a logical POV - if you are going to call my POV "ridiculous" then I'm going to dismantle your POV - so you better back it up. When you don't ............someone is going to call me "salty" because of it. Shrug.......I didn't ask him to reply to my post........too bad........ Didn't say anything bad about Nadal - just said he won 2 slams without Djoko, healthy, where Djoko was the #1 seed, and would have been favorite.
Those are facts - that ONLY apply to Djoko - not to "all 3 of them" - obviouslyI said Nadal's the 3rd GOAT.......and he will likely finish as 2nd in slams is my guess.......so he'd be considered the 2nd GOAT.......maybe 1st as it stands atm. It's a marathon........not a sprint....... Congratulations to Nadal today........and stay focused on what Nadal did today .....and not pacinoyes - who that ^ dude is obsessed with - still! b) If you think that hEaLTHy Djokovic would have been the favourite against Rafa at RG then you are an even bigger idiot than I previously believed. No one is the favourite against Rafa at RG. Period.
This was never said by anyone. Ever. What was said was Nadal WON two slams - his last two - at US and Australia that Djoko would have been the favorite at if he was allowed to play. This is indisputable - this is a fact. You can call me an idiot, you can call it ridiculous, but you don't get to choose your own facts ......... |
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ibbi
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Post by ibbi on Jan 30, 2022 20:34:14 GMT
Even if they didn't win, Lorenzo Sonego, Matteo Berrettini and Camila Giorgi were the most attractive players in the tournament. Ha. Trevisan is prettier than all of them, Swiss. |
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Post by DaleCooper on Jan 30, 2022 20:37:10 GMT
This was never said by anyone. Ever. What was said was Nadal WON two slams - his last two - at US and Australia that Djoko would have been the favorite at if he was allowed to play. This is indisputable - this is a fact. You can call me an idiot, you can call it ridiculous, but you don't get to choose your own facts ......... Which US Open did Nadal win where Djokovic wasn't allowed to play? When he lost against Stan Wawrinka in 2019? When he was injured in 2017? When he beat Djokovic in the final 2010 and 2013? I don't get it. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 30, 2022 20:39:05 GMT
This was never said by anyone. Ever. What was said was Nadal WON two slams - his last two - at US and Australia that Djoko would have been the favorite at if he was allowed to play. This is indisputable - this is a fact. You can call me an idiot, you can call it ridiculous, but you don't get to choose your own facts ......... Which US Open did Nadal win where Djokovic wasn't allowed to play? When he lost against Stan Wawrinka in 2019? When he was injured in 2017? When he beat Djokovic in the final 2010 and 2013? I don't get it. |
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Post by DaleCooper on Jan 30, 2022 20:40:22 GMT
Which US Open did Nadal win where Djokovic wasn't allowed to play? When he lost against Stan Wawrinka in 2019? When he was injured in 2017? When he beat Djokovic in the final 2010 and 2013? I don't get it. Nadal didn't play that one (Thiem won), and Djokovic got himself defaulted for being an idiot. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 30, 2022 20:41:16 GMT
Pretty good match, although very up and down in quality. Credit to Nadal for turning it around, incredible fight from him, but Medvedev basically shat his pants today. From being so comfortably ahead and the better player to making so many inexplicable decisions in important situations. He should never have lost this match and he has only himself to blame. Interesting now in the slam race, Nadal might be out 2 ahead after French, but Djokovic might come back strong. Djokovic should have a few years left as being one of the favorites in most slams, this might have been Nadal's last one outside of French. I think it's unwise to look that far ahead, especially when these guys are in their mid-30s and the next generation of players are getting stronger with every tournament. Nadal looks good for the French Open this season (if he stays fit), but beyond that, we simply don't know if they can hold off the next generation indefinitely. As good as Djokovic is, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Zverev ( as well as improving threats like Shapavalov Auger- Alissame etc) are hungry and can all beat Djokovic and Nadal on any given day. Thiem as well if he comes back strong. Djokovic might struggle to win another slam again. Or he might win another 3. We don't know. But at their age and with the young competition behind them, I think you have to take things on a slam by slam basis, as opposed to assuming Djokovic is just going to keep winning whenever he shows up at a slam for the next few years. These guys are outliers for lasting as long as they have at the top level, but Father Time catches up with everyone. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 30, 2022 20:41:56 GMT
When Djoko hit a linesperson in the throat with a ball and was disqualified in 2020, no? Nadal didn't play that one (Thiem won), and Djokovic got himself defaulted for being an idiot. |
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Post by DaleCooper on Jan 30, 2022 20:45:15 GMT
I think it's silly to look that far ahead, especially when these guys are in their mid-30s and the next generation of players are getting stronger with every tournament. Nadal looks good for the French Open this season (if he stays fit), but beyond that, we simply don't know. As good as Djokovic is, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Zverev ( as well as improving threats like Shapavalo, Auger- Alissame etc) are hungry and can all beat Djokovic and Nadal on any given day. Thiem as well if he comes back strong. Djokovic might struggle to win another slam again. Or he might win another 3. We don't know. But at their age and with the young competition behind them, I think you have to take things on a slam by slam basis, as opposed to assuming Djokovic is just going to keep winning whenever he shows up at a slam. These guys are outliers for lasting as long as they have at the top level, but Father Time catches up with everyone. I agree that we shouldn't look too far ahead. The younger generation should be able to challange, but they just don't seem to be there just yet (I know Meddy won agaisnt Djokovic in US, but Djokovic clearly felt that the occasion and that he was going for the Grand Slam there).
It's also the matter that no one seems to able to play on grass, where we know Djokovic is quite great. And if Djokovic is allowed back into Australia he's always gonna be favorite there. |
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jan 30, 2022 20:45:27 GMT
Even if they didn't win, Lorenzo Sonego, Matteo Berrettini and Camila Giorgi were the most attractive players in the tournament. Ha. Trevisan is prettier than all of them, Swiss. Nah. And, Swiss a chi? |
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Post by brancaleone on Jan 30, 2022 20:49:27 GMT
b) If you think that hEaLTHy Djokovic would have been the favourite against Rafa at RG then you are an even bigger idiot than I previously believed. No one is the favourite against Rafa at RG. Period.
This was never said by anyone. Ever. What was said was Nadal WON two slams - his last two - at US and Australia that Djoko would have been the favorite at if he was allowed to play. This is indisputable - this is a fact. You can call me an idiot, you can call it ridiculous, but you don't get to choose your own facts ......... Uhm Rafa's last two GS titles weren't at U.S. and Australia. His last two were RG20 and AO22. He won USO in 2019. Evidently I'm not the one who's choosing my own facts ... |
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 30, 2022 20:51:12 GMT
When Djoko hit a linesperson in the throat with a ball and was disqualified in 2020, no? Nadal didn't play that one (Thiem won), and Djokovic got himself defaulted for being an idiot. Fair enough, I'm not defending him against being an idiot - I agree - I'm just defending him as the GOAT, not Mr. Nice Guy........ the point is that it's arguable he'd have 2 more wins and Nadal would have 1 less. Just not as extreme as I thought...... I said Nadal deserves credit for winning - just because Djoko wasn't there, he wasn't guaranteed a win and good for him today.........but aside from my mixing up the years on Thiem - we do agree that Djoko is likely to win more titles in the long term.........and that Medvedev lost it as much as Nadal won it.......and that Little Oblivions is an awful album small joke............  |
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Post by ibbi on Jan 30, 2022 20:53:17 GMT
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Post by DaleCooper on Jan 30, 2022 21:00:33 GMT
Fair enough, I'm not defending him against being an idiot - I agree - I'm just defending him as the GOAT, not Mr. Nice Guy........ the point is that it's arguable he'd have 2 more wins and Nadal would have 1 less. Just not as extreme as I thought...... It's definitely true that if Djokovic played this year and got to face Nadal, there would be little chance for Nadal to win (none actually). Hopefully Djokovic now gets his act together and wins a few more so we can put this debate to bed. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 30, 2022 21:02:12 GMT
I think it's silly to look that far ahead, especially when these guys are in their mid-30s and the next generation of players are getting stronger with every tournament. Nadal looks good for the French Open this season (if he stays fit), but beyond that, we simply don't know. As good as Djokovic is, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Zverev ( as well as improving threats like Shapavalo, Auger- Alissame etc) are hungry and can all beat Djokovic and Nadal on any given day. Thiem as well if he comes back strong. Djokovic might struggle to win another slam again. Or he might win another 3. We don't know. But at their age and with the young competition behind them, I think you have to take things on a slam by slam basis, as opposed to assuming Djokovic is just going to keep winning whenever he shows up at a slam. These guys are outliers for lasting as long as they have at the top level, but Father Time catches up with everyone. I agree that we shouldn't look too far ahead. The younger generation should be able to challange, but they just don't seem to be there just yet (I know Meddy won agaisnt Djokovic in US, but Djokovic clearly felt that the occasion and that he was going for the Grand Slam there).
It's also the matter that no one seems to able to play on grass, where we know Djokovic is quite great. And if Djokovic is allowed back into Australia he's always gonna be favorite there. Good point that none of the best of the younger generation seem to have really shown they can be dominant on grass ( though credit to Berettini who did make the Wimbledon final last year, and is steadily improving so should be included as a major threat, though he doesn't seem to have the firepower to beat Djokovic or Nadal yet at slams). Nadal seems to have turned the corner again on grass, despite missing the last edition of Wimbledon in 2021 due to injury, and Wimbledon being cancelled in 2020. His last match at Wimbledon with Djokovic was a super-tight 5 setter, which Nadal could (and maybe should) have won. I think Nadal (as always if fit) is a genuine threat to win Wimbledon again, even with Djokovic in the draw. Younger players will eventually become consistent on grass, but for now, I'm thinking even at 40 years old and having barely played in the last 2 years due to injuries, Federer believes there is still a chance he can win Wimbledon again, if he manages to avoid Djokovic. I feel like Federer is avoiding announcing retirement because he feels he can somehow win at least one more Wimbledon title. Don't see it happening, but that's the mentality of an all-time great champion m |
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Post by DaleCooper on Jan 30, 2022 21:07:26 GMT
Good point that none of the best of the younger generation seem to have really shown they can be dominant on grass ( though credit to Berettini who did make the Wimbledon final last year, and is steadily improving so should be included as a major threat, though he doesn't seem to have the firepower to beat Djokovic or Nadal yet at slams). Nadal seems to have turned the corner again on grass, despite missing the last edition of Wimbledon in 2021 due to injury, and Wimbledon being cancelled in 2020. His last match at Wimbledon with Djokovic was a super-tight 5 setter, which Nadal could (and maybe should) have won. I think Nadal (as always if fit) is a genuine threat to win Wimbledon again, even with Djokovic in the draw. Younger players will eventually become consistent on grass, but for now, I'm thinking even at 40 years old and having barely played in the last 2 years due to injuries, Federer believes there is still a chance he can win Wimbledon again, if he manages to avoid Djokovic. Nah, his last match at Wimbledon was against Federer where he lost fairly comfortable in 4 sets. It's true that Nadal was the better player in the tight five-setter against Djokovic the year before. Anyway, yeah, Nadal has turned a corner on grass, but even when he was at his best he sometimes struggled in the first week so there are no gaurantees. I would be very surpried if he managed to win there again.
I heavily doubt Federer would be able to compete anywhere again, at his age with so many bad injuries in the past years it's going to be incredibly difficult. I think a reasonable expactation for him would be to play one more Wimbledon (maybe manage to get to the second week) and maybe win in Basel as his last tournament (would be a big ask even that).
As for the younger generation being more consistent on grass, maybe that will happen, but it just seems that they don't get much of a grass game. Watching Medvedev today absolutely refusing to follow up his shots to the net (it was like watching De Gea trying to come for a cross - a split second he seems to run forward until he decides to retreat to the baseline again) makes me think he won't ever be a good grass player. Him relying so much on running around five meters behind the baseline won't work as well in Wimbledon either.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 31, 2022 12:49:45 GMT
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 1, 2022 2:51:29 GMT
Damn...2 days since he won and Nadal is still trending on Twitter. His 21st has been a huge!
I feel it's the manner in which he won that astonished so many people, and not just the fact that he broke the slam record. It's probably his greatest victory.
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Post by countjohn on Feb 1, 2022 4:27:24 GMT
Fed winning another Wimbledon (especially in one last Fed-Nadal final) and retiring would be so epic but I do not see it at this point.
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. Djokovic would just have 1 more slam, and deservedly so, and history wouldn't give a flying fuck that Nadal wasn't present. You play who is in front of you, for whatever the reason. Djokovic screwed a perfect opportunity to win there by slamming a lineswoman in the face with his ball in anger. He screwed his opportunity to play in Australia this year by trying to lie his way into to the country to circumvent their pandemic rules. His fault, his problem. 
. Imagine having anything negative to say about a player as incredible as Nadal, purely in sporting terms (he's been spouting the clay merchant/one court wonder bullshit for years.lol). I think Djokovic is a lousy human being, but as a tennis player and athlete, the guy deserves nothing but respect. Same for Federer. You can think one is better than the others, and that is fair enough but the disrespect to Nadal is just plain weird.
