Good God
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Post by Good God on Aug 20, 2019 18:59:31 GMT
I see you still remember our first interaction... 😀 Well, I credit you with motivating me to research Indian cinema and Shah Rukh Khan's standing in it, without which I wouldn't have found out that Shah Rukh Khan is not even the second biggest Indian movie star named Khan that was born in the year of 1965
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Post by TerryMontana on Aug 20, 2019 19:06:32 GMT
Marilyn yes. But for actors I don't know. Maybe Dean, maybe Brando or McQueen... I'm very interested in knowing the answer. I think just in America that John Wayne was famous and influential, but I don't imagine that he'd be very popular outside of the US, at least not for quite awhile. I feel like maybe Dean's influence has waned at least in America. I could be really wrong about this, but just going by social media I can still see Monroe's influence, even if quotes are wrongly attributed to her, but I don't see anything about Dean. I feel so old, lol, especially by writing this, but at least when I was younger I remember that Paula Abdul's "Rush Rush" video helped educate some young people on who Dean was. Then in 2001, James Franco was in the television movie about James Dean, but I think that might have been the last time that there was a big thing like that. Maybe I'm wrong though because this article, 7 pop culture references that show James Dean's influence 60 years after his death, does mention that he's referenced in Taylor Swift's "Style". John Wayne could also be a good choice.
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Post by countjohn on Aug 20, 2019 22:34:41 GMT
A related question - Not considering box office, but rather culture and iconography, would you say that Marilyn Monroe and James Dean are the two most famous and influential "movie stars" throughout the world? Audrey Hepburn and Liz Taylor are both close to Marilyn. Maybe Grace Kelly too. Dean's persona was really just a continuation of what Brando was doing at the time. He's the one who started the mumbling disaffected silent generation thing in movies. So I wouldn't say Dean was super influential in that respect even though he is obviously still quite famous. For most famous leading men you would have to think about Cruise, maybe John Wayne, or Clark Gable due to Gone With the Wind, or Bogart due to Casablanca.
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Post by Pavan on Aug 21, 2019 16:16:35 GMT
If we're going by sheer numbers of people, certain Asian stars will feature prominently. China and India together account for 36% of the world's population, and Jackie Chan (like Bruce Lee) is very well known in those regions. And then you have Indian stars like Amitabh Bachchan, Aamir Khan, and Shah Rukh Khan ( cherry68 ) who're probably known by almost a billion people in India alone. Perhaps a user here from China or India can expound on this, or perhaps correct me. I guess a lot of this discussion veers around what exactly the definition of an icon is. I can answer this coz I'm from India. Shah Rukh Khan is still the most popular actor in India (judging by the number of fans he has) but he is on a downward trend. Amitabh is past but he is still one of the most known faces in India. Salman Khan is another big star in India whose movies open to huge numbers. That said I'd put Aamir Khan on the top. He is the biggest star in this part of the world. He is one of the biggest stars in India and has a very good following in China (perhaps the only Indian actor to have fans in China). I'd name Chaplin as the most iconic actor throughout the world. He is very well liked in Asia too. Marilyn Monroe comes next and then Tom Cruise. American icons like John Wayne, James Dean aren't that popular outside of America or at least in the eastern hemisphere, IMO.
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Post by Pavan on Aug 21, 2019 16:27:50 GMT
^ and these guys are just from Bollywood and only acts in Hindi cinema. There are many other film industries in India consisting of different languages. South India is a different beast altogether and south Indians are crazy about movies. Aamir, Shah Rukh are popular down south but they're not that big. South Indian stars like Rajnikanth, Chiranjeevi, Vijay, Prabhas are well liked by at least 100 million population each and these guys are known in rest of India too. Prabhas is the one took out for in the future though. He could be the next Shah Rukh or Aamir.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 16:29:00 GMT
Here's the most important and successful fashion house in the world hoping to be associated with Monroe... MsMovieStar
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Aug 21, 2019 17:53:06 GMT
I can answer this coz I'm from India. Shah Rukh Khan is still the most popular actor in India (judging by the number of fans he has) but he is on a downward trend. Amitabh is past but he is still one of the most known faces in India. Salman Khan is another big star in India whose movies open to huge numbers. That said I'd put Aamir Khan on the top. He is the biggest star in this part of the world. He is one of the biggest stars in India and has a very good following in China (perhaps the only Indian actor to have fans in China). I'd name Chaplin as the most iconic actor throughout the world. He is very well liked in Asia too. Marilyn Monroe comes next and then Tom Cruise. American icons like John Wayne, James Dean aren't that popular outside of America or at least in the eastern hemisphere, IMO. That mostly matches my intuitions. On an unrelated note, who would you say is the most respected/popular current Hollywood actor in India right now?
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Post by Pavan on Aug 22, 2019 7:16:34 GMT
I can answer this coz I'm from India. Shah Rukh Khan is still the most popular actor in India (judging by the number of fans he has) but he is on a downward trend. Amitabh is past but he is still one of the most known faces in India. Salman Khan is another big star in India whose movies open to huge numbers. That said I'd put Aamir Khan on the top. He is the biggest star in this part of the world. He is one of the biggest stars in India and has a very good following in China (perhaps the only Indian actor to have fans in China). I'd name Chaplin as the most iconic actor throughout the world. He is very well liked in Asia too. Marilyn Monroe comes next and then Tom Cruise. American icons like John Wayne, James Dean aren't that popular outside of America or at least in the eastern hemisphere, IMO. That mostly matches my intuitions. On an unrelated note, who would you say is the most respected/popular current Hollywood actor in India right now? Tom Cruise, Leo DiCaprio and Robert Downey Jr. are very popular in India. People cheered a lot (claps, whistles.. a thing in India) when Leo appeared on screen in OUATIH. Downey got a huge applause when the Endgame title cards rolled. There are couple of fan reaction videos on YouTube if you want to see. Pitt, Bale and Rock are very well liked too. Johnny Depp and Will Smith were huge in 00s but not today.
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rhodoraonline
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Post by rhodoraonline on Sept 2, 2019 11:32:26 GMT
A related question - Not considering box office, but rather culture and iconography, would you say that Marilyn Monroe and James Dean are the two most famous and influential "movie stars" throughout the world? Outside of English-speaking nations, I think Marilyn Monroe is very recognizable (mostly because her face is plastered all across American pop culture and people the world over are influenced by American products like film and TV), but I don't know if as many people know what her name is or what she's famous for. And I don't think Dean is even very recognizable. To me, he seems more of an American icon. I'd even put Bruce Lee over him in terms of global iconography. I'd actually suggest that Charlie Chaplin is possibly the most recognizable actor in history. Among contemporary actors, I think Tom Cruise is as recognizable and known as any living actor, worldwide. I'd definitely put him over Dean in terms of being recognizable. Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet wouldn't be too far off in terms of being recognizable just because Titanic is the most far-reaching movie in recent memory, or perhaps ever if we're talking globally. Bear in mind that none of the above is an assertion. I am not an expert in iconography and I didn't do any real research. These are just my best guesses based on anecdotal experience (I know a lot of immigrants, and have lived a little while in different countries), and we know how flimsy anecdotal evidence is. I'm sure there are more relevant studies on this. Cornetto (from IMDb, not sure if he's here) or Bamm (as he is named on Awards Watch) will probably have a better idea on this. As someone who was born in 1978 and grew up in the 80s on the far side of the world, I would like to share these (for me) names as a permanent pop culture fixtures in my zeitgeist: Charlie Chaplin Marilyn Monroe Elizabeth Taylor Marlon Brando (to a lesser extent) Bruce Lee Then as the 80s progressed of course Tom Cruise blew up everywhere. While I and other movie lovers knew of Tom Hanks well and loved him deeply, we never saw him that huge movie star way. I will add Denzel Washington to the movie star list too at this point. During the next decade saw Smith become a huge star but knew DiCaprio and Pitt as great actors who became huge like Hanks. Jackie Chan also gets added to the huge movie star list at that point but nowhere near the earlier ones. The only later star I would add to this list who emerged after these was Keanu Reeves, but again not as big. I never knew George Clooney and Matt Damon, never heard of Ocean Eleven movies (coz of being more busy in studies then job, I was no longer a movie buff to hear of anyone beyond that age's action stars such as Van Damme and Arnie etc) until I migrated to USA in 2010.
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Post by hugobolso on Sept 3, 2019 18:28:06 GMT
I think many of these guys had a low An overseas/domestic ratio, because in their biggest success, the international box office wasn't important, so not always is counted, plus that were before China Opening.- That Explain why Depp or Di Caprio ar so high.-
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Post by hugobolso on Sept 3, 2019 18:50:16 GMT
A related question - Not considering box office, but rather culture and iconography, would you say that Marilyn Monroe and James Dean are the two most famous and influential "movie stars" throughout the world? I think that now at days Movie Icons are our grandpa's and grandma's childhood. I was born in 1979, and the first Movie Idols I heard were Charlie Chaplin and Greta Garbo. Garbo was alive at the time, but retired from a while. Valentino was also famous at the time. Then in the least 80s Dean popularity increased, so in a way he replaced Valentino.- Why Dean and Marilyn are more famous in image today, than Taylor or Brando, because they died young at the peak of their careers. Taylor and Brando, in the last years of their lives, were bad jokes.- Probably in the next 20 years, Dean will be replaced by other actor. Marilyn is more like Chaplin. Her movies aged better, and her filmography is more extense.-
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Sept 3, 2019 20:12:24 GMT
I think many of these guys had a low An overseas/domestic ratio, because in their biggest success, the international box office wasn't important, so not always is counted, plus that were before China Opening.- That Explain why Depp or Di Caprio ar so high.- Could you give an example?
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Post by hugobolso on Sept 3, 2019 21:43:04 GMT
I think many of these guys had a low An overseas/domestic ratio, because in their biggest success, the international box office wasn't important, so not always is counted, plus that were before China Opening.- That Explain why Depp or Di Caprio ar so high.- Could you give an example? Tom Cruise. Before 1989 according to box office mojo only two movies had the foreign gross Top Gun and Rain Man. Johnny Depp is on the list because of Pirates of the Caribbean x example on Stranger Sides made 70 m. in China Di Caprio in China 44 m Titanic 68 m Inception 13m The Great Gatsby
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Sept 3, 2019 22:15:48 GMT
Tom Cruise. Before 1989 according to box office mojo only two movies had the foreign gross Top Gun and Rain Man. Cocktail, too, but you're right. I'll probably need to think about getting the ratio solely from Box Office numbers which include both domestic and overseas grosses. The China market is definitely a factor, but I don't think it's an unfair factor. That your movies are released and make money in China is a point in your favor.
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Post by Good God on Sept 23, 2019 23:00:12 GMT
hugobolso So, here's what I did for Tom Cruise and will be doing for the rest of the actors. I'll be considering the Box Office figures of only the movies which have both their domestic and overseas grosses listed on Box Office Mojo. And I'll only be considering the figures from the years when they were listed on the Quigley Poll. For instance, for Tom Cruise's listings: 1983: No overseas grosses are listed for any of his 1983 movies, so I'm disregarding that year. 1986: No overseas grosses are listed for 2 of his 3 1986 movies, so I'm only counting that 1 movie (Top Gun) which lists overseas gross. 1988: Overseas grosses are listed for all of his 1988 movies, so I'm counting all of them. By that methodology, Tom Cruise grossed $3348M overseas and $2503M domestically in the years he was listed on the Quigley Poll. That's an overseas/domestic ratio of 1.34. I'll update the list as I do this for more actors.
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Post by Billy_Costigan on Sept 24, 2019 5:17:18 GMT
That mostly matches my intuitions. On an unrelated note, who would you say is the most respected/popular current Hollywood actor in India right now? Tom Cruise, Leo DiCaprio and Robert Downey Jr. are very popular in India. People cheered a lot (claps, whistles.. a thing in India) when Leo appeared on screen in OUATIH. Downey got a huge applause when the Endgame title cards rolled. There are couple of fan reaction videos on YouTube if you want to see. Pitt, Bale and Rock are very well liked too. Johnny Depp and Will Smith were huge in 00s but not today. I'm not denying that Downey is super popular but I'd like to see how he does outside of the Avengers/franchise films going forward.
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Post by Good God on Sept 24, 2019 20:00:08 GMT
hugobolso So, here's what I did for Tom Cruise and will be doing for the rest of the actors. I'll be considering the Box Office figures of only the movies which have both their domestic and overseas grosses listed on Box Office Mojo. And I'll only be considering the figures from the years when they were listed on the Quigley Poll. Did this for all the actors in the OP, and the new ratios aren't too far off what they originally were for most actors. The glaring exception is Kevin Costner, whose ratio went up from 1.04 to a staggering 1.77. Here are the new ratios: Tom Cruise: 1.34 (originally 1.48) Tom Hanks: 1.21 (originally 1.14) Johnny Depp: 1.81 (originally 1.69) Leonardo DiCaprio: 1.80 (originally 1.75) Julia Roberts: 1.29 (originally 1.17) Eddie Murphy: 0.85 (originally 0.89) Will Smith: 1.26 (originally 1.45) George Clooney: 1.11 (originally 1.14) Mel Gibson: 0.98 (originally 0.99) Brad Pitt: 1.76 (originally 1.58) Robin Williams: 1.04 (originally 0.92) Jim Carrey: 0.85 (originally 0.87) Denzel Washington: 0.82 (originally 0.70) Robert Downey: 1.36 (originally 1.52) Sandra Bullock: 0.82 (originally 1.08) Kevin Costner: 1.77 (originally 1.04) John Travolta: 0.92 (originally 0.74) Will update the OP with the new ratios soon.
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Post by Good God on Sept 24, 2019 23:52:13 GMT
Updated the OP with the new ratios. Kevin Costner makes a huge and shocking jump up the list.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 25, 2019 1:35:24 GMT
Costner had a few huge hits overseas. The Bodyguard did a little over 100 mil. domestically but over 400 mil worldwide. I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to Costner as opposed to Whitney Houston who was a huge international pop star at the peak of her fame at the time and had her biggest hit originating with the movie. Thought of The Bodyguard immediately when I saw Costner's new ratio and looked up the numbers.
But JFK, Waterworld, and his Robin Hood also doubled their domestic gross internationally.
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Post by Good God on Sept 25, 2019 1:57:34 GMT
Costner had a few huge hits overseas. The Bodyguard did a little over 100 mil. domestically but over 400 mil worldwide. I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to Costner as opposed to Whitney Houston who was a huge international pop star at the peak of her fame at the time and had her biggest hit originating with the movie. Thought of The Bodyguard immediately when I saw Costner's new ratio and looked up the numbers. But JFK, Waterworld, and his Robin Hood also doubled their domestic gross internationally. Yeah, it's almost entirely because of those movies that his ratio jumped to 1.77 from the mediocre (and perhaps inaccurate) 1.04 he has over his entire career. I honestly don't get the feeling that Costner was that big overseas, but I can't argue against his numbers during his peak.
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Post by hugobolso on Sept 25, 2019 15:35:34 GMT
Costner had a few huge hits overseas. The Bodyguard did a little over 100 mil. domestically but over 400 mil worldwide. I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed to Costner as opposed to Whitney Houston who was a huge international pop star at the peak of her fame at the time and had her biggest hit originating with the movie. Thought of The Bodyguard immediately when I saw Costner's new ratio and looked up the numbers. But JFK, Waterworld, and his Robin Hood also doubled their domestic gross internationally. I was 13 and Kevin Costner was at the time The Hollywood King (He had a brief reign between dancing with Wolves until Wyatt Earp that was his first big flop, he was easily replace by a triunvirate: Hanks, Gibson and Ford).- Yep he was much more famous than Whitney Houston, in fact I never listened about Houston before the Bodyguard, because I didn' listen music at the time.- Even his Clint Eastwood Elijah Wood worked well overseas. The main exceptions were the Western (Ex. DWW). He was so huge, and he promoted very well his films, like Sly, Arnie or Bruce Willis.- Unfortunately we still live in the long reign of George Clooney, an actor or actress should be blessed by him,and being a member of his gang, for being someone in Hollywood.- Di Caprio is also a King, but he is much more low profile, and isn't so prolific.- I miss "old" Hollywood, after Costner collapsed, we have a triunvirate for the rest of the decade, Tom Hanks won at the end, but he was easily succeed by Rusell Crowe, Di Caprio and Clooney. Clooney the less money maker ended as the King, because he formed a gang with other actors, several more box office succesful than King George.-
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Post by Good God on Oct 11, 2019 19:27:08 GMT
As we move on to the actors born in the 1940s, this starts to become less reliable as there is generally less data on overseas grosses. I may be missing some people, but these are the obvious big ones:
1. Arnold Schwarzenegger: 121 points Perhaps the definitive action star of his generation. - 7 placements in the top 10. Pretty sustained peak. - Average placement of 3.43. Highly impressive. - 1 year at #1. Strong peak. - An overseas/domestic ratio of 1.29. Decent ratio.
2. Harrison Ford: 121 points Among the greatest longevities a star has ever had. - 13 placements in the top 10. A star across 3 decades. - Average placement of 6.23. Below average. - 1 year at #1. Good peak. - An overseas/domestic ratio of 0.95. Mediocre ratio.
3. Sylvester Stallone: 120 points An all-time action star. - 8 placements in the top 10. Good longevity. - Average placement of 4.75. Pretty good. - 2 years at #1. Strong peak. - An overseas/domestic ratio of 1.40. Very good ratio.
Barbra Streisand would have definitely featured pretty prominently, but there is pretty much no data available on the overseas grosses of her movies from 1969-1980 when she featured 10 times on the Quigley Poll (for a domestic points total of 48).
Other prominent actors who were never quite up there as stars but I did just for the heck of it (with limited or little data) are:
Robert De Niro - 6 points (global) Al Pacino - 17 points (domestic only, as there is no overseas data) Meryl Streep - 17 points (global)
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Post by stephen on Oct 11, 2019 19:41:41 GMT
1. Arnold Schwarzenegger: 121 pointsPerhaps the definitive action star of his generation. - 7 placements in the top 10. Pretty sustained peak. - Average placement of 3.43. Highly impressive. - 1 year at #1. Strong peak. - An overseas/domestic ratio of 1.29. Decent ratio. Arnie's figures never fail to impress me. Bill Burr said it best: this dude should've been loading trucks in Transylvania, but instead by sheer force of gumption, will and charisma, he became one of the greatest stars in history.
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Post by Good God on Oct 11, 2019 19:45:00 GMT
Arnie's figures never fail to impress me. Bill Burr said it best: this dude should've been loading trucks in Transylvania, but instead by sheer force of gumption, will and charisma, he became one of the greatest stars in history. Stallone's success story is nothing to sneeze at, either. It almost reads like fiction.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Oct 12, 2019 4:12:32 GMT
Whaaaaaa?
Stallone's overseas ratio is higher than Arnold AND Ford's?! I would have NEVER guessed that.
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