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Post by ibbi on Oct 9, 2022 14:10:48 GMT
(because he can play on all surfaces better than anyone, ever) Now, this is just false. First of all, even if it were true, it is only so because of the absolute dumbing down of tennis the past 20 odd years (bigger racquet heads, voodoo strings, smaller balls on slower courts, bigger balls on faster courts) that has taken most of the skill and variety out of the game and reduced it to athletic spectacle, to live action Pong. The fields are certainly deeper than ever given that dumbing down, and that is definitely a positive for the sport in more than one way, but it hasn't made anyone better at anything, it's just changed the game mode from Hard to Easy. Comparing what these guys are doing to what guys like Connors or Lendl or Borg or even Agassi were doing succeeding across surfaces that generally required completely different skillsets (and when there were 4 surfaces, not 3) is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately insult. And even if you ignore all that, and reduce it to the more reasonable 'he can play on all surfaces better than anyone in the last 20 years'... Better than Federer? Nadal had a ridiculous matchup advantage with Federer he did not have with Djokovic, the combination of that and Djokovic being 6 years Roger's junior and so around at a time when Nadal is less day-in day-out dominant on clay in best of 3 are pretty much all he has going in his favour. In fact, Roger's age has absolutely come back to haunt him when it comes to numbers in general. When he was the kind of age Novak is now, he kept running into Djokovic in his 20s. Novak instead is running into Berrettini, Kyrgios, Medvedev, Tsitsipas. All due respect to them, but it isn't quite the same thing, and it proves the absurdity of reducing everything to numbers. Anyway, that those two guys have vaguely comparable records on clay when Federer's game is so antithetical to the surface and Djokovic's is so perfect for it is crazy telling. Federer went 5 years at Roland Garros losing to nobody but Nadal. I don't think Djokovic has ever made it more than 3 years without being able to say the same. The only thing he's better than Federer at is beating Nadal.
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Post by pacinoyes on Oct 9, 2022 14:33:16 GMT
Anyway, that those two guys have vaguely comparable records on clay when Federer's game is so antithetical to the surface and Djokovic's is so perfect for it is crazy telling. Federer went 5 years at Roland Garros losing to nobody but Nadal. I don't think Djokovic has ever made it more than 3 years without being able to say the same. The only thing he's better than Federer at is beating Nadal.
^ That was a good post - and not much I disagree on - but at some point history is going to judge Fed even more harshly for not winning a French than they do now tbh - fair or not......if Djoko or Nadal makes their "2X Career Grand Slams" record into a "3x Career Grand Slams" record in 2023/2024 ........well, it'll be a Brady like thing of separation for them from him. Not exactly fair, no .........but I am pretty sure it will eventually be "a Brady-like consensus thing"........ but the "truth" of that consensus can certainly be questioned......
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Post by DaleCooper on Oct 10, 2022 8:14:44 GMT
That was a good post - and not much I disagree on - but at some point history is going to judge Fed even more harshly for not winning a French than they do now tbh - fair or not......if Djoko or Nadal makes their "2X Career Grand Slams" record into a "3x Career Grand Slams" record in 2023/2024 ........well, it'll be a Brady like thing of separation for them from him. I don't think many will care that he didn't win more French Open's to be honest. I also would highly doubt either Djoko or Nadal will win a third career slam (especially Nadal who would need both an Australian Open and a Wimbledon to do so). Anyway, there are other aspects of Federer's career that would stick out much more than the inability to win a "double" career slam (which is not really a thing as far as I am concerned).
Federer's claim to GOAT is already gone if you just go by numbers, his main claim at this point is the same reason some claimed he might have been that already back in 2004. And that won't be changed if someone wins a third career slam.
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Post by pacinoyes on Oct 10, 2022 9:01:03 GMT
That was a good post - and not much I disagree on - but at some point history is going to judge Fed even more harshly for not winning a French than they do now tbh - fair or not......if Djoko or Nadal makes their "2X Career Grand Slams" record into a "3x Career Grand Slams" record in 2023/2024 ........well, it'll be a Brady like thing of separation for them from him. I don't think many will care that he didn't win more French Open's to be honest. I also would highly doubt either Djoko or Nadal will win a third career slam (especially Nadal who would need both an Australian Open and a Wimbledon to do so). Anyway, there are other aspects of Federer's career that would stick out much more than the inability to win a "double" career slam (which is not really a thing as far as I am concerned).
Federer's claim to GOAT is already gone if you just go by numbers, his main claim at this point is the same reason some claimed he might have been that already back in 2004. And that won't be changed if someone wins a third career slam.
Maybe - I've said this before "greatest tennis players" (or GOAT anything tbh) follows a discernible pattern - people either pick the guy who won the most (the numbers), or in the more arguable way, nuanced way - "at their best who was THE best" Fed will always have the latter argument for people who feel that way because he was "unbeatable" (so to speak) in his peak years I think it's quite possible - maybe even likely actually - that Djokovic wins a 3rd French however and that would be quite a big deal ......can't really agree with that "not many will care part" in regards to that aspect myself.......
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Post by DaleCooper on Oct 10, 2022 18:29:45 GMT
Maybe - I've said this before "greatest tennis players" (or GOAT anything tbh) follows a discernible pattern - people either pick the guy who won the most (the numbers), or in the more arguable way, nuanced way - "at their best who was THE best" Fed will always have the latter argument for people who feel that way because he was "unbeatable" (so to speak) in his peak years I think it's quite possible - maybe even likely actually - that Djokovic wins a 3rd French however and that would be quite a big deal ......can't really agree with that "not many will care part" in regards to that aspect myself....... I don't think Federer have the latter argument just because he was incredibly dominant (Djokovic has essentially been just as dominant, arguably even more so at times) but because of the way he played the game stands out.
As for the Djokovic winning a third French - it's definitely possible, wouldn't say probably though. Nadal is still gonna be there at least next year, and he is pretty beatable in Paris by other players as well Anyway, about the career slam what makes that impressive is that it proves a player can win on all tournaments on all surfaces. Winning a double or triple career slam doesn't really prove anything more. We all know that he can win in Paris. What I actually do think he has a good chance of doing, which would probably be an even bigger feat, at least to me, is to win another two Wimbledons to take the record of most titles there.
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Post by pacinoyes on Oct 25, 2022 10:46:35 GMT
Baldnal & No-Vax Djo-Covid announced they will both play Paris - end of this month - so Nadal will try to win this for the 1st time, Djokovic for the 7th (um, yeah, it's not clay is it?), then they will play the end of year finals too (theoretically)......so that is kinda awesome - you could see these 2 fossils play TWICE this year (theoretically) - in Paris and Turin after that.
Djokovic Revenge Tour goes for his 4th straight tournament win in Paris .......also Australia 2023 is the big deal .......and this is the latest:
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Post by pacinoyes on Oct 28, 2022 18:52:14 GMT
Paris Masters draw came out today - Djokovic and Nadal "could" meet in the Semis if they win out ....Medvedev / Alcaraz could be their final opponent - as they are in a separate group........
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 1, 2022 17:35:19 GMT
Paris Masters underway - Sinner lost yesterday (wtf), the GOAT Djokovic - a 6 time Paris Champ - wins in straight sets today in his opener........ Alcaraz and Baldnal both looking for their first Paris Masters Championship - ever - play their very first matches tomorrow. This stat was posted before the Djoko match - interesting - up to date numbers on the 3 GOATs:
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 2, 2022 22:21:28 GMT
Heard an amazing stat today on Tennis Channel - Nadal has won TWO indoor tournament (not counting Davis Cup) in his Pro Career.......... Madrid 2005........Brazil 2013 ......both .......... on Clay.......... Dropped a set but if he wins his opening match - this tournament - Paris Masters - is ripe for the picking - Medvedev OUT, Sinner OUT, Fritz OUT.......... Yikes
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Post by ibbi on Nov 3, 2022 14:13:00 GMT
Heard an amazing stat today on Tennis Channel - Nadal has won TWO indoor tournament (not counting Davis Cup) in his Pro Career.......... Madrid 2005........Brazil 2013 ......both .......... on Clay.......... 2005 Madrid was a hard court!
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 3, 2022 16:07:45 GMT
Pretty wild tournament so far....Paris Masters 2022
#2 - 2005 Madrid HARD Court winner - Nadal (sorry about that ibbi - I wasn't even born in 2005, gee whiz!), OUT along with #3 Ruud, #4 Medvedev and #7 Rublev,........AND #9 Fritz
Djoko plays Khachaov coming up - and that dude won once beat him in this tournament........ in a final (um!) ......upsets are in the air to say the keast
Possibly a Djoko-ALcaraz final - the real #1 and #2's in the world tbh......and Youth vs. Covid Infected Middle Aged Decline......Alcaraz already in the QF btw
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Post by ibbi on Nov 3, 2022 16:20:09 GMT
As this is really just a general tennis thread this is a good place to say that Alcaraz-Rune tomorrow could be the beginning of a decade and change long rivalry. Alcaraz the hero the sport needs turning tennis back into a party and Rune the villain* who maybe the sport also needs. That Musetti and Felix are also still there is great to see. I know this tournament is kind of a joke and often an anomaly in the tennis calendar, but fingers crossed it's a good sign of what is to come in 2023. *=
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 4, 2022 20:02:51 GMT
Alcaraz OUT - retires in 2nd set tie-break but he was on his way to lose it after dropping 1st set........Djokovic beats Musetti in a 24 minute 6-0 1st set that was just awe-inspiring .....then he goofs around and wins the 2nd set 6-3.......
I suppose he could lose this tournament - he sometimes is Choke-ovic but I doubt it....and so do you .....
Semis tomorrow, Final Sunday.....
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 5, 2022 16:09:37 GMT
Yikes....... Alcaraz out of ATP Finals .....
Carlos Alcaraz @carlosalcaraz After my withdrawal yesterday and having been evaluated by my medical team unfortunately this is the result of my injury: an internal oblique muscle tear in the left abdominal wall with an estimated recovery time of six weeks.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 5, 2022 19:45:29 GMT
Stat of the Day: Novak Djokovic records milestone 650th hard-court win of career:
He hit that historic number with a thrilling 6-2, 3-6, 7-6 (4) victory over Stefanos Tsitsipas in the semifinals of the Rolex Paris Masters, which was also his record-extending 235th career win over a Top 10 player
650+ WINS ON A SINGLE SURFACE IN OPEN ERA (men, tour-level):
~ Roger Federer: 783 career wins on hard ~ Guillermo Vilas: 681 career wins on clay ~ Novak Djokovic: 650 career wins on hardwww.tennis.com/news/articles/stat-of-the-day-novak-djokovic-650th-hard-court-win-tsitsipas-paris
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 6, 2022 16:27:23 GMT
Djokovic about to go....OUT Rune has been amazing today ........
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Post by ibbi on Nov 6, 2022 16:47:15 GMT
What a match. What a performance.
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Post by ibbi on Nov 6, 2022 16:49:22 GMT
That is the first time a guy has beaten 5 top ten players in one tournament EVER.
(outside of the World Tour Finals anyway)
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 9, 2022 11:35:20 GMT
ATP finals start Sunday - the 13th - 20th........Nadal is still in this and practicing already......he has never won this title and obviously if he wins he would end the year at number 1 .......Djokovic going for his 6th title to catch Federer.....giant killer Holger Rune is an alternate here so "may" play?
Also Djokovic fighting "mystery drink" allegations again.........it's probably something that protects him against COVID and allows him to challenge governments that forbid him hitting a ball over a net......ummmmmmm.....and Caroline Garcia won the WTA finals - not Iga Świątek which may be the biggest surprise in tennis in the last few weeks - and there have been A LOT of surprises lately ....
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 13, 2022 22:21:31 GMT
ATP Finals 2022
That's 3 losses in a row on hard courts now for Nadal and he got breadsticked (um) in the last 2 matches vs. Fritz (today) and Paul (Paris)....FAA also lost today to Ruud........should be better matchups for them in the later matches since this isn't an elimination tournament .....still not a great start.......
Fritz 7-6, 6-1 Ruud 7-6. 6-4
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 14, 2022 23:00:43 GMT
ATP Finals 2022
Djokovic over his punching bag Tsitsipas and Rublev over Medvedev today
Nadal / FAA & Fritz / Ruud tomorrow
TENNIS @tennis STAT OF THE DAY @djokernole has recorded his 60th career win over a Top 3 player, defeating No. 3-ranked Stefanos Tsitsipas, 6-4, 7-6 (4), in his opening match at the ATP Finals.
He's the first man in ATP rankings history to record 60 career wins over Top 3 players
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 15, 2022 11:38:44 GMT
Oh.....it's real bitches....... according to The Guardian anyway.....way to go Australia, good job also on Amyl and The Sniffers "Comfort To Me" album ........and I would think he wins AO23 in about 75 days, right? ...Oh God I'm going to be insufferable
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 15, 2022 22:42:13 GMT
ATP Finals 2022* FAA over Nadal in straight sets - Nadal is eliminated and so is his shot at year end number 1 - Alcaraz will be the year end #1; Ruud over Fritz in 3 sets in a tie-break in the better match today * Tomorrow: Djokovic / Rublev ; Medvedev / Tsitsipas : Rublev bageled Djokovic 6-0 last time - Djokovic was sick (allegedly) ........he may destroy Rublev........ or he may Chokeovic * 4 straight losses for Nadal ........ he's now a verrrrrrrrrrry "Golly, I'm A Clay Court Specialist!" with 74 wins and 75 losses in his career on hard courts vs. top 10 playersWhat do you think of that weak sauce stat Rafa?
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 16, 2022 22:47:05 GMT
ATP Finals 2022
* Djokovic into the Semi-Finals in straight sets over Rublev ; Tsitsipas in 3 sets over Medvedev- Medvedev is out now afaik ... match of the tournament though - 2 tie-breaks......
* Nadal plays his exit match tomorrow against Ruud ; FAA vs. Fritz also.....
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 17, 2022 23:35:13 GMT
2022 ATP Finals
Nadal wins in straight sets in his exit match over his punching bag Ruud who can't beat any of the top 3, ever - it seems like; Fritz over FAA in 3 sets
Tomorrow : Djokovic vs. Medvedev in Medvedev's exit match ; Tsitsipas vs. Rublev to see who gets in the Semi Finals
Semi-Final Saturday: Djokovic vs. Fritz; Ruud vs Tsitsipas or Rublev depending on tomorrow's winner
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