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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 3, 2019 0:20:55 GMT
Vincent PriceGenre: Horror - RomanceSimilar to Pacino I think you see more about what made Price special by whittling the genre down a bit. He made many wondrful horror films - I've already said in my Depp post that all of the GOAT actors would fall on their face infusing his horror dialog with much less glee and zeal than he did. But when I think of Vincent Price it is as a very broken hearted, thwarted romantic. He didn't start in horror but he had 2 absolutely pivotal roles in romances with a dark twist and Gene Tierney - Laura and Leave Her To Heaven - that established his screen persona. Those films allowed him to develop a template to curse the world and the Gods who tampered with his romantic wishes. In the Dr. Phibes films, House on Haunted Hill, his love is eternal but could turn spiteful and vengeful and in familial stories like Theatre of Blood (his daughter) and House of Usher (his sister) he pays a gruesome price for such deep bonds. Often he seems to be ruefully mocking other couples too which made his romantic horror quite funny and creepy - because, well they know not what they have and since they don't appreciate it ..........they will pay! From House on Haunted Hill -
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 3, 2019 9:42:48 GMT
Jacky's big (BIG) Bro., Sammo Hung. Speaking about choreographer, here is truly a Master one, a fight choreographer, at 18 he was (and since few years already) a choreographer on A Touch of Zen (a Cannes Festival award winning film) but Sammo is much more than that, he's simply one of the greatest and most influencial martial arts movies artists that ever lived. First he was an anomally, an overweight guy with a Buddha belly but he had an insane amount of speed and agility with a grace that would make the best ballet dancer jealous. Just during his 20's he starred AND directed some of the greatest classics of the genre (The Prodigal Son, Warriors Two, Spooky Encounters...), helped to popularize sub-genre like kung-fu comedy as well as pionneering the Martial Arts Comedy horror. Unlike his friend Jacky, he never really got the popularity and success he deserved outside of Asia (he's probably best known in the West for the TV show Martial Law) but his fingerprints on the genre is massive and unique. Awesome pick Back in the day, I used to devour Hong Kong martial arts and crime films, and Sammo's influence on Kung-Fu comedy nearly matched the much more famous Jackie Chan. Michelle Yeoh probably deserves nod for her impact as well.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 3, 2019 10:08:12 GMT
Gary OldmanGenre: BiopicGary Oldman does many things remarkably well but one of the very best is to portray real life people we don't know or know only in a cursory way - he functions as our window into the troubled, the great and sometimes both simultaneously. Many actors have been great in biopics sure but Oldman has been been great across the widest spectrum - Sid Vicious, Beethoven (which by itself with those first 2 is mind-boggling), Lee Harvey Oswald, Churchill, Joe Orton. The Oldman biopic is quite unique in the genre too because while getting all the character details right he never seems to go for impersonation only he is always giving full bodied performances of characters first and the chameleon aspects, while always there, is always secondary. That gives his biopics an extra sting too - because we are not sure what we might learn or find out along the way or what he might share with us or hold back as well. Biopics may be the most boring of genre types but he is anything but a boring actor and he always enlivens them with his mere presence at first and then so much more than that as well. Oldman as Beethoven, below :
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 3, 2019 14:55:43 GMT
Denzel WashingtonGenre: Sports FilmDenzel Washington in some ways crosses genres already covered - lots of police roles somewhat like the Pacino post and several biopics like the Oldman post too. But I think he also fits here and fits best imo - not just because no other big actor has worked it in a bigger way but more importantly no big time actor worked this genre as precisely and in shades of meaning. Across at least 3 films - He Got Game, Remember The Titans, and one of his bio-roles The Hurricane he goes across 3 sports too(!) and the sports themselves here have metaphorical weight to them. Metaphors for manhood, fatherhood, success and what that means, and personal growth - here they manage to avoid the mawkishness inherent in the genre and therefore make these genre pics and his performances within them sports films in the most complete sense. In He Got Game, below:
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 3, 2019 15:49:24 GMT
Daniel Day-LewisGenre: Period DramaWhat is astonishing about Day-Lewis' work in this genre is how much he taps into other things that other actors would leave out - sexuality, political insights, gender power struggles, humor - there's much in play at all times like any life at any time. He doesn't just "put on a different hat" - there is a sense of totality and meticulousness about character within genre - what did it mean to be alive in that time and be that man in that time too. Some of his best and most underrated performances - The Unbearable Lightness of Being or Last of the Mohicans deepen if you read the books they are based on and see how he implemented himself into the filmed piece as it existed originally. For him time, place and behavior aren't achieved randomly or by accident, they are achieved minutely and precisely so the overall effect is dazzling. His period dramas are completely full-blooded. Below, Day-Lewis in My Left Foot:
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 3, 2019 16:10:18 GMT
It's nice to see you enthusiastic about this thread, but I think maybe it's a prudent idea to wait awhile to see if a new actor generates discussion before quickly banging out a new profile.
There were some good discussion had around Depp and Ringwald that was given room to breathe before the next profile was inintroduced, but that actually starts to get lost if people are banging out a new actor profile every 2 hours. It just becomes word salad with no interaction.
The thread isn't going anywhere. We can pace ourselves a bit.
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Post by bob-coppola on Jul 3, 2019 16:31:38 GMT
Two pages and no one has mentioned Sigourney Weaver and the sci-fi/action genre. Her Ripley changed the game and you can still find echoes of her in current action/sci-fi female heroes.
(I'm feeling lazy, might write more on it later)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 16:37:35 GMT
Daniel Day-LewisGenre: Period Drama What is astonishing about Day-Lewis' work in this genre is how much he taps into other things that other actors would leave out - sexuality, political insights, gender power struggles, humor - there's much in play at all times like any life at any time. He doesn't just "put on a different hat" - there is a sense of totality and meticulousness about character within genre - what did it mean to be alive in that time and be that man in that time too. Some of his best and most underrated performances - The Unbearable Lightness of Being or Last of the Mohicans deepen if you read the books they are based on and see how he implemented himself into the filmed piece as it existed originally. For him time, place and behavior aren't achieved randomly or by accident, they are achieved minutely and precisely so the overall effect is dazzling. His period dramas are completely full-blooded. Below, Day-Lewis in My Left Foot: I was thinking Kate Winslet in this same genre - of course she's done memorable work outside of it, but I think she'll best be remembered for her corseted free spirits.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 3, 2019 16:39:38 GMT
Two pages and no one has mentioned Sigourney Weaver and the sci-fi/action genre. Her Ripley changed the game and you can still find echoes of her in current action/sci-fi female heroes. I think the cool approach to this thread, as I tried to structure it is people doing detailed actor profiles and generating some discussion around those actor profiles (in theory). It's not just a namechecking exercise. I fully intended to get around to doing a profile on Weaver and Sci-fi.You could not miss her. Someone else may decide to do it before me, in which case, I wish them well. The format has been established in two pages. If there is an actor you really dig and want to discuss their genre impact, put out a profile. But the great thing about this topic is just how many actors you can discuss in relation to their genre impact. It may take years, but we can eventually get around to all of them.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 3, 2019 20:04:01 GMT
Isabelle HuppertGenre: Erotic Drama/SuspenseHuppert has many genre triumphs in her career but she was particularly - uniquely even - adept in erotic dramas/suspense. Working fearlessly in material that as a female is fraught with an inherent judgmental criticism - is she bravely making points about female sexuality for example or just acquiescing to a male director's POV? - Huppert has had an amazing amount of complex artistic successes here. Several roles within genre that play as shockingly candid and detached, analytical - School of Flesh, The Piano Teacher, Elle, Deep Water. This work almost never in her portrayals is designed to be merely sexy - in fact, it's rarely sexy - there is a logical underpinning in the choices she makes which keeps plot points mysterious relative to what she knows and we don't - how she shapes these characters is wonderfully elusive. In the best of this genre work she makes the intersection of story, sex and (maybe) love and its accompanying psychology achingly sad or frighteningly emotional when often, in the hands of other mere mortal actresses, it would only come off as self-conscious or worse, lurid. From School of Flesh:
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 3, 2019 22:41:16 GMT
Isabelle HuppertGenre: Erotic Drama/SuspenseHuppert has many genre triumphs in her career but she was particularly - uniquely even - adept in erotic dramas/suspense. Working fearlessly in material that as a female is fraught with an inherent judgmental criticism - is she bravely making points about female sexuality for example or just acquiescing to a male director's POV? - Huppert has had an amazing amount of complex artistic successes here. Several roles within genre that play as shockingly candid and detached, analytical - School of Flesh, The Piano Teacher, Elle, Deep Water. This work almost never in her portrayals is designed to be merely sexy - in fact, it's rarely sexy - there is a logical underpinning in the choices she makes which keeps plot points mysterious relative to what she knows and we don't - how she shapes these characters is wonderfully elusive. In the best of this genre work she makes the intersection of story, sex and (maybe) love and its accompanying psychology achingly sad or frighteningly emotional when often, in the hands of other mere mortal actresses, it would only come off as self-conscious or worse, lurid. Love this mention. I feel like she's been seen with a lot of actresses recently, Kidman bowing down to her, Moore, etc... Chastain, a very vocal fan, said in 2011: "She is always challenging herself. You see her performances, and they’re very brave and very risky and she’s always trying new things with new directors in new countries she’s never worked in before, and that’s exactly the career I want.” I think part of the magic with Huppert is that she's never overwhelmed or overcome by her risk taking - when we say fearless it's not just the roles, anyone can take a daring role, for her it's truly in the performance and how singularly, soberly, smartly she'll play it. School of Flesh, I recall so much of that movie being tight on her face, so we see the lust, obsession, depression, humiliation, all of it so closely. That's as emotionally draining a perf there is and it plays with and against the sexual aspect in a profound way bc of that nearness. On the other hand, Eaux Profondes (never mentioned on the board I don't think!) is clever with its ideas of sex as a sporting event of sorts, a lot of suggestive glancing across rooms, courting, toying, while using a lot of style.... tigerlike camerawork, match-cuts, color motifs, surreal touches. Huppert is sexy here but then, when the fun goes away and the betrayal is felt on both sides, there's contempt and worry too.... It also uses her really well--like how her large portrait looms over Trintignant in his lab, or bc she's so small he might lose her in a crowd, or like this pic that's just a reflection right? but highlights, what ruins him, how he perceives her as evasive...
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 3, 2019 23:30:41 GMT
Jeremy IronsGenre: Psychological DramaWith Jeremy Irons you almost have to broaden the genre or genre terminology around his own specific work - that's how unique he was. Throughout the 80s/early 90s Irons amazed in roles that existed - in his conception at least - as totally apart from any outside action whatsoever - that internalized every plot point, major or minor thought, behavior and motivation. This genre is very broad so it often gets narrowed to things like "psychological horror" or "psychological thriller" but what Irons did was to go far more specific himself in his acting which allowed the films then to function as psychological love stories or horror or crime - without him for example the "psychological" piece is almost removed - Betrayal for one could be seen as a different genre entirely by simply removing this actor. This was drama of the mind and Irons, the most overtly intellectual male actor of his era, often went into complicated and uncomfortable corners to round out his performances. Betrayal, Dead Ringers, Reversal of Fortune, Damage, M.Butterfly - these were men who ruin marriages, personal lives, careers, his own familial relationships and often eventually themselves - and do it all by themselves too. In typical films of course the script and actor would portray such extreme behavior as this with a gun for example - but in these roles Irons himself rather was the gun - and he made us rethink plot points, story trappings and narrative developments. In Dead Ringers with Geneviève Bujold:
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 4, 2019 0:35:57 GMT
Pacinoyes: I appreciate all these profiles, but as the thread starter I asked you nicely to please slow down....to give people the opportunity to actually have a discussion about individual actors. Doing 7, 8 actors a day is overwhelming and is allowing for almost no meaningful discussion on a lot of admittedly great picks. You do not do this on your Best Actors Across meduims thread. Please don't do it on this thread. Please respect the intention of this thread to promote discussion, not just one individuals thoughts.
I propose anyone who wants to a do profile has a limit of 1 per day.
Because it gives us a chance to talk about said actor/actress and their Impact, and it allows others to feel they can also contribute a profile if they wish.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 4, 2019 1:05:03 GMT
Pacinoyes: I appreciate all these profiles, but as the thread starter I asked you nicely to please slow down....to give people the opportunity to actually have a discussion about individual actors. Doing 7, 8 actors a day is overwhelming and is allowing for almost no meaningful discussion on a lot of admittedly great picks. You do not do this on your Best Actors Across meduims thread. Please don't do it on this thread. Please respect the intention of this thread to promote discussion, not just one individuals thoughts. Look just to clarify this thread went up 3 days ago - this is the 3rd day. It started 7/1. You've posted 3 I think. There are 6 pacinoyes profiles - you gave a different answer to bob-coppola that said if he wanted to post something, he should post it. No one else has posted anything besides that Sammo Hung and some name listings as well. The reason I don't do this in the Best Actors Across mediums thread is because I am out of ideas - it's 20 pages long - I would love people to list stuff there - be my guest. Please! I've never heard of this in my life this is a message board that's up forever - discussion can be promoted anytime - do people actually do this - because this may not be the board for me as much then - you have a thread on acting, I'm talking about acting and rather well I think too - Mattsby gave a borderline brilliant reply also (bastard!) - I don't get what you want here exactly - wait 13-24 days for people to maybe reply about Vincent Price? Can you reach out to the mods or something and have someone PM with direction because this sounds like BS tbh. I've never seen anyone ask for this - no one is stealing the thread rather the opposite you have an active thread open to everyone with a lot of info already - are you gaslighting me or what, lol. Anyway I don't have any to add since the Irons one ........but ...........what if I get an idea for tomorrow?
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 4, 2019 1:24:53 GMT
Pacinoyes: I appreciate all these profiles, but as the thread starter I asked you nicely to please slow down....to give people the opportunity to actually have a discussion about individual actors. Doing 7, 8 actors a day is overwhelming and is allowing for almost no meaningful discussion on a lot of admittedly great picks. You do not do this on your Best Actors Across meduims thread. Please don't do it on this thread. Please respect the intention of this thread to promote discussion, not just one individuals thoughts. Look just to clarify this thread went up 3 days ago - this is the 3rd day. It started 7/1. You've posted 3 I think. There are 6 pacinoyes profiles - you gave a different answer to bob-coppola that said if he wanted to post something, he should post it. No one else has posted anything besides that Sammo Hung and some name listings as well. The reason I don't do this in the Best Actors Across mediums thread is because I am out of ideas - it's 20 pages long - I would love people to list stuff there - be my guest. Please! I've never heard of this in my life this is a message board that's up forever - discussion can be promoted anytime - do people actually do this - because this may not be the board for me as much then - you have a thread on acting, I'm talking about acting and rather well I think too - Mattsby gave a borderline brilliant reply also (bastard!) - I don't get what you want here exactly - wait 13-24 days for people to maybe reply about Vincent Price? Can you reach out to the mods or something and have someone PM with direction because this sounds like BS tbh. I've never seen anyone ask for this - no one is stealing the thread rather the opposite you have an active thread open to everyone with a lot of info already - are you gaslighting me or what, lol. Anyway I don't have any to add since the Irons one ........but ...........what if I get an idea for tomorrow? I made an edit to my post saying proposing individual posters doing 1 profile a day (myself included) if they wished. That way others also feel they can contribute profiles if they want without feeling one guy has filled up the day's quota, as well giving breathing room to discuss profiles. I think that's a reasonable proposal. None of us are children (I think) or have Attention Deficit Disorder (I hope). I don't think it's the toughest ask in the world to space out individual profile contributions by a day or so. I'm letting you know about my intentions for this thread, and proposing a reasonable set of guidelines to make it as enjoyable and effective for all as possible. Don't take it personally. It's good thread. I respect the intentions of any thread starter and any guidelines they might propose, you included. That's just standard message board etiquette.
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 4, 2019 2:30:56 GMT
Denzel WashingtonGenre: Sports FilmDenzel Washington in some ways crosses genres already covered - lots of police roles somewhat like the Pacino post and several biopics like the Oldman post too. But I think he also fits here and fits best imo - not just because no other big actor has worked it in a bigger way but more importantly no big time actor worked this genre as precisely and in shades of meaning. Across at least 3 films - He Got Game, Remember The Titans, and one of his bio-roles The Hurricane he goes across 3 sports too(!) and the sports themselves here have metaphorical weight to them. Metaphors for manhood, fatherhood, success and what that means, and personal growth - here they manage to avoid the mawkishness inherent in the genre and therefore make these genre pics and his performances within them sports films in the most complete sense. Love him in He Got Game - overused term but that's a dynamic perf... He generates a lot of ideas in that role, you can tap a lot to him - tough, forward, stubborn yet simple (grilled cheese scene), charismatic and nostalgic (love the boardwalk scene where he tells Jesus who he was actually named after), and finally a little remorseful, jealous, deeply earnest (the final 1-on-1, his eyes, and the clutched inflection of his voice....) and it serves the central sports themes... swagger, obsession, competition, sacrifice.... where Denzel's work came three years in a row, '98,99,00.... two other actors in sports pics across decades..... Nick Nolte - 70s North Dallas Forty that I got into in the Nolte thread, a light and relatively languid depiction of sports but all thru Nolte who's so effortless it feels like a veteran perf but also from the first scene bone-battered, so you get a discussion of physical toll, ironic sacrifice (break your back for the team who'll discard you once you're damaged goods). 90s Blue Chips, where he's higher up with the culpable, a strong character study with a huge ending monologue against the corrupted state of sports, it's slightly preachy but earned. 2010s Warrior, deeply pained, convulsive, ragged, wrung, Oscar nom'd! Across three sports too but not on the successful level of Denzel's. One more---does Luck count?? Anddd how about Paul Newman. 50s Somebody Up There Likes Me (n/s), 60s The Hustler strong look at talent and ego and the ways it can or can't be supervised, 70s Slap Shot - deserves mention for this masterpiece alone, "Old time hockey!" and don't forget Pauline Kael at the time called it "the performance of his life." 80s Color of Money takes the earlier theme texturing it with the younger parallel, arguably better.
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 4, 2019 2:45:33 GMT
pupdurcs Dude, let the man pacinoyes roll when he's rolling! Who reads great insightful posts and thinks less of that pls.... By having the posts (more the merrier I think) there are more options to discuss - right?
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 4, 2019 3:02:21 GMT
pupdurcs Dude, let the man pacinoyes roll when he's rolling! Who reads great insightful posts and thinks less of that pls.... By having the posts (more the merrier I think) there are more options to discuss - right? I don't think less of that at all. I just think it : 1) Stops other people from feeling (consciously or unconsciously) they should add profiles of their own, if someone else does 6-7 a day. It's about not being selfish and allowing other voices a chance. There are a lot of bigger personalities here (myself included & Pac) who can sometimes overpower threads without giving others space to contribute. I'm becoming more conscious of that. Even I have slowed my roll on pumping out profiles, because I don't want this thread to just be about me hearing the sound of my own voice in regards to the topic. 2) It can dilute the conversations had somewhat. I don't think what I've suggested is unreasonable. All these great, insightful discussions are still here to be had. Just space them out a bit, give them time to breathe and allow others to feel they can also chip in with profiles of their own.
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 4, 2019 3:22:01 GMT
John Wayne and Clint Eastwood with the WesternWayne is iconic in this genre of course but could be a clunky actor, not always. He never went as deep or dared to the extent Clint has. Clint should get cred here for being the creative force behind a lot of his Westerns, masterpieces like Unforgiven... but one in particular I wanna unpack, High Plains Drifter.... His first directed Western, it was quite controversial - famously John Wayne despised it and wrote Clint a letter to that end. Really rather boldly, Clint begins the movie with a harrowing scene that introduces his character as a menacing rapist.... and he doesn't expect us to side with him, even while following thru on the heroic stranger arc, he remains shifty and questionable.... ultimately he's saving the town while conducting and coming to terms with his revenge against them. So with the plot, the motivation, and the character, there's internal contradiction, which treats its revisionism, but coming from Clint, whose Western-er heroes up until then were either morally sound or lighter fare, this was something a little more haunting, subtle, and complex, and could've been a disaster.....
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 4, 2019 4:10:18 GMT
Mattsby - I really liked the Nolte and Newman post - tbh I didn't think of them and tried in my first picks here to pick people who I'd say were GOAT in each genre but they're good names too to think about. I am in East Coast USA time so I'll do my Thursday profile now too since um, its Thursday It is another GOAT in genre but I actually have an interesting odd pick I thought of - very odd actually - but that's for Friday I guess Would also love feedback on Irons and if you agree I thought that one was interesting where remove the actor you change the genre - great Dead Ringers photo too
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 4, 2019 4:13:57 GMT
Robert De NiroGenre: Crime/GangsterWhat separates De Niro here from many fine actors who have excelled in this genre is an absence of sentiment - you feel far less cinematic concessions to his roles - and his performances represent and play off those criminal elements in the same way Pacino did for his cops (see page 1). He covers much more ground (even comedic) - and there's no concession to any of his characters being tailored for him - he simply assumed those roles he knew them so well. You see this as an actor's dichotomy of characters - within 1 year - Mean Streets to Godfather Part 2 - young men at the approximate same age from different eras who have two very different possibilities from the criminal life - to one it's an ascension, to the other an inevitable descent. But you also see it in established men of great power (The Untouchables) or responsibility (Casino) too and sometimes how the violence inherent in that life can bubble up and engulf regardless of stature or intent. Goodfellas, Once Upon A Time In America and Heat all have bad endings for his characters - but not the same bad ending - jail, regret, death - and his portrayals in this genre ring true with that burdensome knowledge. Once Upon A Time In America, below:
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 4, 2019 15:42:27 GMT
Chuck Norris
Genre: Action
There are few irrefutable facts in life. One of them is that Chuck Norris is a fucking badass! Chuck Norris is so badass, that he took one look at your girlfriend, and nine months later this chick gave birth to a bouncing baby boy.
Chuck Norris started out as a legit non-movie badass. Having black belts in various martial arts and all that good shit. None of these martial arts were good enough for Sensei Chuck, so he invented his own martial art (Chun Kuk Do) and gave himself a black belt in that shit, like the true badass he is.
Badasses naturally gravitate to each other, you see. It's the way of the fist! So when Bruce Lee first saw Sensei Chuck kicking ass in some martial arts tourney, a badass friendship was born. Bruce and Sensei Chuck became friends and trained together, thinking up ever more imaginative ways to kick the shit out of people. What a time it must have been to be alive!
In 1972, Sensei Chuck starrred as Bruce Lee's white guy enemy in Way Of The Dragon. But Chuck was never destined to be some disposable gwailo.
Chucks movie career really came alive in the 1980's. While he utilised his martial arts training In his roles, he started drlifting away from martial arts specific films to general action movies. And being Chuck Fuckin' Norris, he crushed that shit. Lone Wolf McQuade, Missing In Action, Invasion U.S.A.
Even writing the titles of those movies has given me a testosterone boost! But my absolute favorite of Sensei Chucks badass action oveure is 1986's Delta Force, where Chuck starred opposite another badass, Lee Marvin. Sensei Chuck starred as a character called The Major, while Marvin played a character called The Colonel. I'm not even making this shit up!
Anyway, what Delta Force tells us is that if he were in his prime, Chuck could have single handedly ended terrorism. I truly believe that. My favorite scene from Delta Force, where Chuck takes out some scumbag terrorists with missiles flying out the ass of his motorcycle, while going on to do a wheelie and surfing on seat of said bike to get on a plane. God bless Sensei Chuck!
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Post by Mattsby on Jul 4, 2019 22:34:56 GMT
Jeremy IronsGenre: Psychological DramaWith Jeremy Irons you almost have to broaden the genre or genre terminology around his own specific work - that's how unique he was. Throughout the 80s/early 90s Irons amazed in roles that existed - in his conception at least - as totally apart from any outside action whatsoever - that internalized every plot point, major or minor thought, behavior and motivation. This genre is very broad so it often gets narrowed to things like "psychological horror" or "psychological thriller" but what Irons did was to go far more specific himself in his acting which allowed the films then to function as psychological love stories or horror or crime - without him for example the "psychological" piece is almost removed - Betrayal for one could be seen as a different genre entirely by simply removing this actor. This was drama of the mind and Irons, the most overtly intellectual male actor of his era, often went into complicated and uncomfortable corners to round out his performances. Betrayal, Dead Ringers, Reversal of Fortune, Damage, M.Butterfly - these were men who ruin marriages, personal lives, careers, his own familial relationships and often eventually themselves - and do it all by themselves too. In typical films of course the script and actor would portray such extreme behavior as this with a gun for example - but in these roles Irons himself rather was the gun - and he made us rethink plot points, story trappings and narrative developments. Great great post bc it’s something I find hard to describe, the unspoken psychological touches in perfs like these from Irons - to think of the action in the script (you’re not supposed to write what the character is thinking) and how much he adds. I said before on here, especially in Betrayal and Damage, how he uses his eyes to either consume or retreat, but it’s more than that too. “Internalizes” is right - you see it in his best work - how he takes everything around him and receives it centripetally but then hints or is undone by ominous precipitous psychosexual maintenance, how it hides or breaks, how he is possessed, scared at his own passion on top of it, and the eyes… Eye-lines are turned into an Art form, from actors such as Irons and the amount of power they contribute there. How he adds privacy, compulsion, alarm, emotion etc and that’s without the text yet. Nicholas Ray has a very interesting quote “The dialogue is just the left hand, the melody is in the eyes.” Around the same time you see Michael Douglas in some similar type projects but he doesn’t have the internal or the trouble that Irons issues. Douglas’ gift to psychological texture is grinding his teeth - kidding (sort of) but point is, compared to Irons especially, he’s a flat surface. Then look at Spader in something like Dream Lover - closer to Irons with the use of eyes, charged desire, and that possessed quality that takes him over and becomes darkly motivated; a proper amour fou!Ebert has a good line in his Damage review how the actors add a “psychic engine” behind the “physical” which gives it meaning and tension…. and that might be Irons’ great influence, how he navigates the bicameral scrimmage of mind and body, and how that awareness of the mental repercussion cedes, to the physical (M Butterfly), or isolates itself (Damage ending), or worse…..
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 4, 2019 23:33:34 GMT
Fantastic insight Matts so many aspects to assess in that work.
In many ways it's a pity that Irons never acted with Huppert because they seem so perfectly matched in that specific way - they're psychological (acting) soul mates I'd say. I liked that you mentioned "privacy" too for Irons because - I think in maybe every one of those roles he's engaging in behavior he wants no, needs to keep secret and yet he's so excited - almost euphoric, crazily high - that it remain secret - which gets into that split personal pleasure/private hell he's putting himself through and is in danger of collapsing at any moment.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 5, 2019 1:39:30 GMT
Laurence OlivierGenre: Stage To Screen/Plays on Film (Non-Shakespeare)In the first post, Olivier was (correctly) mentioned for his filmed Shakespeare works but you can also see him through his "other" plays - arguably as important in their own way even - and that almost never get mentioned as a group. From 1957-1972 Olivier did 7 modern plays (ie non-Shakespeare) as films - some of them contemporary - and that changed the way that he was thought of as an actor and this genre. The Prince and the Showgirl, The Entertainer, Uncle Vanya, Oh! What A Lovely War, Dance of Death, Three Sisters and Sleuth. Three of his very best film performances are in that group - The Entertainer, Dance of Death and Sleuth - which is really saying something. He did more major stage to screen work in total than anyone, ever - helping to get most of these films made and distributed with his star power and at times also producing/directing. These productions are linked not by author but by method - a focus on story/acting, an artistic desire to serve the text faithfully and no concerns about Hollywood box-office. Some of these were major contemporary stage successes and would have still been made but clearly at least 3 would not have and having him added a big draw. He was 50 years old in 1957 so his work in that period of age 50-65 actually exceeds his younger filmed work (arguably) and certainly for range and diversity of material surpasses it - and this isn't all the film work he did in these years of course either. Olivier's total career achievements and volume of work are so staggering that imo he is on a (very) short list of the GOAT actors - even just for film (without TV/Stage included) you can make this case. But this diverse 1957-1972 group of plays is historic and an example that sometimes there is a whole other side to an actor too. If you haven't seen these and can find them - Dance of Death is particularly hard to find iirc - they are all very much worth seeking out. From Dance of Death, below:
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