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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 6, 2019 19:42:14 GMT
Great post. Even though I was very very young when he was past, Candy is a particular favorite of mine. Like a lot of comedians, he could be misused and he made some bad movies (I don't see anybody for going to bat for Wagons East, the movie that tragically took his life, but what I do know), but he always an appealing presence on screen. Candy is basically one of those actors that almost seems impossible to hate, maybe it's the Canadianness in him, but many of his films like Delirious or Planes, Trains and Automobiles are prominently sold on the idea of him being a "hapless happy guy". The late John Hughes was the director and writer, who really knew how to use Candy best, by not relying on his weight, and instead giving him a lot more "personal comedy". Hughes and Candy worked together on seven different projects, beginning with National Lampoon Vacation, and included movies like Home Alone, where Candy showed up in a memorable small part, mostly as a favorite to Hughes. Some people even credit Candy's death as being the main catalyst for being what led Hughes to stop directing films after 1991. Candy also moved into more dramatic roles by the end of his career, such as his great scene in JFK, or his role in Cool Runnings, which I actually rewatched a few weeks back. I was reminded of how good of an actor he could actually be, especially during his big speech between him and the coaches. He's got energy, and he's as personable as can get. My favorite less-discussed John Candy movie however, would probably be Only The Lonely, which gives him what might have been his best role ever, as a romantic comedy lead. The movie was directed by Chris Columbus, coming off the success of Home Alone ( Macaulay Culkin even has a small part in it as Candy's son), and Candy has great repertoire between everyone in the cast, especially Maureen O'Hara, who came out of retirement at the time to play his demanding mother. The script is pretty solid, but it's really Candy who sells it is. He's perfect as the hard-working but nice cop. I can't find any good clips right now, but I do highly recommend checking out the movie. It's an underseen gem. Nice summary. Yeah, Candy really stood out to me as a good actor. I could have seen him drift into even more challenging dramatic work had he not passed away. You are also right about John Hughes using him correctly. He saw a great comic actor and not just a "funny fat guy", which 90% of directors would have seen Candy as. Really got the best out of him. I have actually seen Only The Lonely, but it was so long ago now that it might almost feel like a new movie with a rewatch. I do remember liking it...and with a combination like Candy and Maureen O' Hara, two of the most likable movie stars who ever lived, I don't think disliking the film was ever a real option. Hughes also pushed the humanity in Candy too. Like Planes, Trains & Automobiles is a prime example of that, even Uncle Buck's character arc is all about him being a better person. Only The Lonely really doesn't get enough love. It's not a perfect movie per-say, but it's really funny, and has a great supporting cast too. In addition to Candy and O'Hara, Anthony Quinn in particular in one of his last really good roles, is a hoot as a neighbor who's had a crush on Maureen O'Hara forever, and has only finally had the courage to actually admit it. It's just really endlessly charming.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 7, 2019 3:37:24 GMT
Mel BrooksGenre: Parody ComediesNow here’s somebody who could definitely fit into the "Great directors and their impact on a genre" thread, but here I wanted to focus on Mel Brooks as an actor / performer, as the majority of films that Mel acted in were of the parody sorts. Starting his career as a writer for a variety programs, Mel Brooks very soon gained a name for himself after winning the best original screenplay for The Producers, however Brooks did not really gain popularity until the release of two massive movies in the same year, which happened to be among my favorites, Blazing Saddles, and Young Frankenstein. The first of course was a classic satire of westerns along with a brilliant parody of race, and the later was a loving homage to old black and white horror movies, it might honestly be the last traditional B&W movie ever made too. Brooks followed these two massively successful films up with more financially successful parodies, the majority of which I think get a bad rap. Silent Movie was his tribute to (duh), old silent movies, High Anxiety was a fun parody of Hitchcock films, History of The World Part 1 was both a skit movie as well as a homage to biblical epics, and of course Spaceballs was his out of the world take on Star Wars. Now what I love most about Brooks’s work, is that with his few exceptions, you can really feel his love for the source material. Most directors wouldn’t go out of their way to find the old cameraman and technician, who worked on the old universal horror movies, so they could film a movie the old way, and yet Brooks did that. Similarly only a director like Mel Brooks in his prime, could make a movie that almost entirely devoid of dialogue outside of Marcel Marceau’s “noun!” gag, and have it be released by a major studio, and do it as well as it did. Of course Brooks’s later movies were not up to snuff. While Spaceballs felt like a common ground between silly Brooks and “hip Brooks”, Robin Hood: Men in Tights took that to its nth degree. I still enjoy this movie to an extent, but I recognize that its comedy is a bit shall we say wobbly, and by that point Brooks seem to parodying films that were recent, as opposed to more “timeless and old”. Similarly while it also has its moments, including a memorably gory climax, Dracula: Dead & Loving It does feel quite stale, and despite featuring the spoofmeister himself Leslie Nielsen in the title role (now there’s a guy I could do write-up of, and it would kinda get depressing), has a feeling of “been there, done that!” People often give Brooks crap for eventually taking the lead movies in his movies, when he should have stuck to parts like Governor Lepotomane in Blazing Saddles, and while I agree that a different lead (like say if Gene Wilder had not turned the lead in High Anxiety), could have made those movies different, I still think Brooks has an amicable presence to himself, that lent itself well enough to leading roles. He also has wonderful comic timing going for him as well. Great Post! I must confess I've always seen Mel Brooks as more an overall creative impresario (director, producer, songwriter then actor) than specifically an actor, but he's obviously had a long and fairly prolific career as a comic actor and he's been an influential one. Does Leslie Neilsen's second act career as a spoof comic actor par excellence happen without Brooks' onscreen influence? Probably not. But obviously it's difficult to divorce Brooks influence as an actor from that as a filmmaker, since it was so often a package deal. With spoofs, it's often a hit and miss gaime (Even the Scary Movie franchise had run out of steam by like like the third one. And speaking of Scary Movie, I think we can also add the Wayans Brothers to those who feel clearly influenced by Brooks. They don't exclusively do spoofs but a lot of their biggest and best films have fallen into that bracket. I think the Wayans , either individually or more likely as a collective merit a profile. They've been a hugely successful comic dynasty, but feel somewhat underrated at the same time. But yeah, things like Don't Be A Menace To South Central While Drinking Your Juice In The Hood kept the parody/spoof genre fresh when it was looking like Brooks time had passed, and the Airplane/Naked Gun guys were running out of ideas). But yeah, I tend to rate Brooks more for his supporting turns (ie Blazing Saddles & Spaceballs) I thought he did some pretty solid work as a lead ( I like To Be Or Not To Be . High Anxiety might have had a different energy with Gene Wilder in the lead, but Brooks didn't exactly ruin it, so I don't think there is much to complain about).
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 7, 2019 4:37:57 GMT
Mel BrooksGenre: Parody ComediesNow here’s somebody who could definitely fit into the "Great directors and their impact on a genre" thread, but here I wanted to focus on Mel Brooks as an actor / performer, as the majority of films that Mel acted in were of the parody sorts. Starting his career as a writer for a variety programs, Mel Brooks very soon gained a name for himself after winning the best original screenplay for The Producers, however Brooks did not really gain popularity until the release of two massive movies in the same year, which happened to be among my favorites, Blazing Saddles, and Young Frankenstein. The first of course was a classic satire of westerns along with a brilliant parody of race, and the later was a loving homage to old black and white horror movies, it might honestly be the last traditional B&W movie ever made too. Brooks followed these two massively successful films up with more financially successful parodies, the majority of which I think get a bad rap. Silent Movie was his tribute to (duh), old silent movies, High Anxiety was a fun parody of Hitchcock films, History of The World Part 1 was both a skit movie as well as a homage to biblical epics, and of course Spaceballs was his out of the world take on Star Wars. Now what I love most about Brooks’s work, is that with his few exceptions, you can really feel his love for the source material. Most directors wouldn’t go out of their way to find the old cameraman and technician, who worked on the old universal horror movies, so they could film a movie the old way, and yet Brooks did that. Similarly only a director like Mel Brooks in his prime, could make a movie that almost entirely devoid of dialogue outside of Marcel Marceau’s “noun!” gag, and have it be released by a major studio, and do it as well as it did. Of course Brooks’s later movies were not up to snuff. While Spaceballs felt like a common ground between silly Brooks and “hip Brooks”, Robin Hood: Men in Tights took that to its nth degree. I still enjoy this movie to an extent, but I recognize that its comedy is a bit shall we say wobbly, and by that point Brooks seem to parodying films that were recent, as opposed to more “timeless and old”. Similarly while it also has its moments, including a memorably gory climax, Dracula: Dead & Loving It does feel quite stale, and despite featuring the spoofmeister himself Leslie Nielsen in the title role (now there’s a guy I could do write-up of, and it would kinda get depressing), has a feeling of “been there, done that!” People often give Brooks crap for eventually taking the lead movies in his movies, when he should have stuck to parts like Governor Lepotomane in Blazing Saddles, and while I agree that a different lead (like say if Gene Wilder had not turned the lead in High Anxiety), could have made those movies different, I still think Brooks has an amicable presence to himself, that lent itself well enough to leading roles. He also has wonderful comic timing going for him as well. Great Post! I must confess I've always seen Mel Brooks as more an overall creative impresario (director, producer, songwriter then actor) than specifically an actor, but he's obviously had a long and fairly prolific career as a comic actor and he's been an influential one. Does Leslie Neilsen's second act career as a spoof comic actor par excellence happen without Brooks' onscreen influence? Probably not. But obviously it's difficult to divorce Brooks influence as an actor from that as a filmmaker, since it was so often a package deal. With spoofs, it's often a hit and miss gaime (Even the Scary Movie franchise had run out of steam by like like the third one. And speaking of Scary Movie, I think we can also add the Wayans Brothers to those who feel clearly influenced by Brooks. They don't exclusively do spoofs but a lot of their biggest and best films have fallen into that bracket. I think the Wayans , either individually or more likely as a collective merit a profile. They've been a hugely successful comic dynasty, but feel somewhat underrated at the same time. But yeah, things like Don't Be A Menace In South Central While Drinking Juice In The Hood kept the parody/spoof genre fresh when it was looking like Brooks time had passed, and the Airplane/Naked Gun guys were running out of ideas). But yeah, I tend to rate Brooks more for his supporting turns (ie Blazing Saddles & Spaceballs) I thought he did some pretty solid work as a lead ( I like To Be Or Not To Be . High Anxiety might have had a different energy with Gene Wilder in the lead, but Brooks didn't exactly ruin it, so I don't think there is much to complain about). Thanks. I'd been meaning to write-it for a while actually. Without Mel Brooks heck Airplane probably doesn't happen. Although it's a different kind of parody (the ZAZ's are a lot more about the fast-beat gags), Brooks really opened the door for a lot of people to start taking cracks at certain type of genres or films, without literally doing a 180 copycat of the flicks. I enjoy a lot of the Wayans stuff, Don't Be A Menace is pretty funny, you could also sorta blame them for Frieberg and Seltzer happening, though also to be fair, there entirely career exists because of nepotism. Jason's father Rick Friedberg actually directed the Leslie Nielsen spoof Spy Hard, and it has a lot of same sort of humor beats that plagued garbage (just referencing anything), like Epic Movie, and Meet The Spartans. Brooks as an actor is kinda interesting to me. He's similar to John Huston in that he started out as a writer, and then became a director, and then actor, but unlike Huston, he actual casted himself in his own films, as opposed to just starring or appearing in other people's film. To Be Or Not to Be is a good example too, the only time he starred in a movie that he didn't direct, discounting stuff like The Muppet Movie, though obviously he was involved with the production behind the scenes as well. He's actually quite believable taking over The Jack Benny part, it probably helps that he was paired with his longtime wife Anne Bancroft. Another thing we can probably thank Brooks for that is non-spoof related, is advancing the careers of directors like David Lynch, and David Cronenberg, since without his involvement The Elephant Man, and The Fly probably never would have gotten made. Brooks even asked for his name to be taken off both films as a producer, specifically because of him being known as the spoof comedy guy. Dude's a legend, in more then one way.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 7, 2019 6:39:19 GMT
Great Post! I must confess I've always seen Mel Brooks as more an overall creative impresario (director, producer, songwriter then actor) than specifically an actor, but he's obviously had a long and fairly prolific career as a comic actor and he's been an influential one. Does Leslie Neilsen's second act career as a spoof comic actor par excellence happen without Brooks' onscreen influence? Probably not. But obviously it's difficult to divorce Brooks influence as an actor from that as a filmmaker, since it was so often a package deal. With spoofs, it's often a hit and miss gaime (Even the Scary Movie franchise had run out of steam by like like the third one. And speaking of Scary Movie, I think we can also add the Wayans Brothers to those who feel clearly influenced by Brooks. They don't exclusively do spoofs but a lot of their biggest and best films have fallen into that bracket. I think the Wayans , either individually or more likely as a collective merit a profile. They've been a hugely successful comic dynasty, but feel somewhat underrated at the same time. But yeah, things like Don't Be A Menace In South Central While Drinking Juice In The Hood kept the parody/spoof genre fresh when it was looking like Brooks time had passed, and the Airplane/Naked Gun guys were running out of ideas). But yeah, I tend to rate Brooks more for his supporting turns (ie Blazing Saddles & Spaceballs) I thought he did some pretty solid work as a lead ( I like To Be Or Not To Be . High Anxiety might have had a different energy with Gene Wilder in the lead, but Brooks didn't exactly ruin it, so I don't think there is much to complain about). Another thing we can probably thank Brooks for that is non-spoof related, is advancing the careers of directors like David Lynch, and David Cronenberg, since without his involvement The Elephant Man, and The Fly probably never would have gotten made. Brooks even asked for his name to be taken off both films as a producer, specifically because of him being known as the spoof comedy guy. Dude's a legend, in more then one way. Amazing I had no idea about this. The guy was a filmmaking Godfather.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 7, 2019 7:35:13 GMT
Another thing we can probably thank Brooks for that is non-spoof related, is advancing the careers of directors like David Lynch, and David Cronenberg, since without his involvement The Elephant Man, and The Fly probably never would have gotten made. Brooks even asked for his name to be taken off both films as a producer, specifically because of him being known as the spoof comedy guy. Dude's a legend, in more then one way. Amazing I had no idea about this. The guy was a filmmaking Godfather.Yup, I was in shock too, when I learned just how much he had done as a producer. I recommend looking up Brooksfilm. The studio was only heavily active during the 80s, but you might be surprised what they've been involved with. A lot of it was not comedy. It's a really remarkable career.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 7, 2019 14:04:06 GMT
Amazing I had no idea about this. The guy was a filmmaking Godfather.Yup, I was in shock too, when I learned just how much he had done as a producer. I recommend looking up Brooksfilm. The studio was only heavily active during the 80s, but you might be surprised what they've been involved with. A lot of it was not comedy. It's a really remarkable career. I looked it up. Mel Brooks produced Frances as well. Simply incredible. Why does it feel like such low-key part of Hollywood history that Mel Brooks was basically the Plan B, Annapurna and A24 of the 1980's? Feels like something that should be more celebrated and widely known.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 7, 2019 15:34:33 GMT
Yup, I was in shock too, when I learned just how much he had done as a producer. I recommend looking up Brooksfilm. The studio was only heavily active during the 80s, but you might be surprised what they've been involved with. A lot of it was not comedy. It's a really remarkable career. I looked it up. Mel Brooks produced Frances as well. Simply incredible. Why does it feel like such low-key part of Hollywood history that Mel Brooks was basically the Plan B, Annapurna and A24 of the 1980's? Feels like something that should be more celebrated and widely known. Probably doesn't help that he was never actually named as a producer on the films. Even though you saw The Brooksfilm logo on those movies, Brooks himself didn't give credit because he was worried that people might be expecting a comedy once they saw his name, so people are often confused about his involvement with those more serious-minded movies. He doesn't get enough credit for believing in those projects. Dude was legit one of the big guns in Hollywood for a while.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 7, 2019 20:17:29 GMT
Zoe SaldanaGenre: Sci Fi/FantasyAs of two weeks ago, Zoe Saldana became the only human being in existance to be a main cast member in the two highest grossing movies of all-time (not adjusted for inflation). Avengers: Endgame finally squeaked past the previous no.1 Avatar to reach the top spot. And Saldana was a major star in both.This was not a coincidence. Whether painted blue or green or working with motion captutre or just looking like her natural brown skinned self, Saldana has become the most emblematic female genre star since Sigourney Weaver. There is something highly comforting in Saldana's presence. Even when she's playing badass galactic assainsins like Gamora ( the role she introduced in Guardians Of The Galaxy and has since played in other Marvel movies), she radiates a relatability and geniality that makes her a real and anchor for genre fans. So yeah, she's been first choice for female roles in Sci-Fi fantasy projects for the last decade for good reason. We can't forget to mention she's Uhura in Star Trek as well. It also has to be acknowledged that no black actress has ever had this type of dominance in such a dominant genre. It makes one question why exactly Scarlett Johansson is the highest paid actress in Hollywood, and Saldana isn't?Yes, Johansson fluked one solo hit in Lucy, bit she's had two bombs since ( Ghost In A Shell and Rough Night) to underline she's really no more of a major solo draw than Saldana is. They both bring value to franchises. Saldana just brings value to a lot more franchises than Johansson does.
At this point you can argue that she has the greatest movie resume of any actress in the genre. Fitting that she'll be in the next 4 Avatar movies alongside that other female Sci-fi legend, Sigourney Weaver. Below, a tragic scene of Gamora confronting her adopted father and universal genocide practitioner Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 7, 2019 20:25:35 GMT
Zoe SaldanaGenre: Sci Fi/FantasyAs of two weeks ago, Zoe Saldana became the only human being in existance to be a main cast member in the two highest grossing movies of all-time (not adjusted for inflation). Avengers: Endgame finally squeaked past the previous no.1 Avatar to reach the top spot. And Saldana was a major star in both.This was not a coincidence. Whether painted blue or green or working with motion captutre or just looking like her natural brown skinned self, Saldana has become the most emblematic female genre star since Sigourney Weaver. There is something highly comforting in Salandana's presence. Even when she's playing badass galactic assainsins like Gamora ( the role she introduced in Guardians Of The Galaxy and has since played in other Marvel movies), she radiates a warmth and geniality that makes her a real and anchor for genre fans. So yeah, she's been first choice for female roles in Sci-Fi fantasy projects for the last decade for good reason. We can't forget to mention she's Uhura in Star Trek as well. It also has to be acknowledged that no black actress has ever had this type of dominance in such a dominant genre. It makes one question why exactly Scarlett Johansson is the highest paid actress in Hollywood, and Saldana isn't?Yes, Johansson fluked one solo hit in Lucy, bit she's had two bombs since ( Ghost In A Shell and Rough Night) to underline she's really no more of a major solo draw than Saldana is. They both bring value to franchises. Saldana just brings value to a lot more franchises than Johansson does.
At this point you can argue that she has the greatest movie resume of any actress in the genre. Fitting that she'll be in the next 4 Avatar movies alongside that other female Sci-fi legend, Sigourney Weaver. Below, a tragic scene of Gamora confronting her adopted father and universal genocide practitioner Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War.
It's interesting to note that her two biggest films and roles have had her blue and green. Quite the combination. I'd say she fits into the sci-fi roles mostly because she kinda had an exotic feel to her. The motion-caption effects definition help as well. The reason she isn't paid as much as Scarlett Johnasson is two-fold, she's not "white" (if you know how Hollywood works, this is absolutely true), and secondly aside from Columbiana, she's never really led her own wide-released movie. After that films underperformed, it seems like studios were a lot less bearish on her giving "leading, leading roles", so she probably mostly just relies on her franchises these days, which is a shame, as I do think she has a very good presence, and she could carry her own movie. She's done well with a few indies as well. Also Saldana been around forever, and people just kinda only noticed her after Avatar. You might forget but she was in the first Pirates of The Caribbean film. They actually never really addressed what happened to her character Anna Maria. I don't know the exact story, but she was either busy, or didn't exactly get along with Bruckhemier much, so they wrote her role-off. In retrospect that might have been for the best.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 7, 2019 20:38:40 GMT
Zoe SaldanaGenre: Sci Fi/FantasyAs of two weeks ago, Zoe Saldana became the only human being in existance to be a main cast member in the two highest grossing movies of all-time (not adjusted for inflation). Avengers: Endgame finally squeaked past the previous no.1 Avatar to reach the top spot. And Saldana was a major star in both.This was not a coincidence. Whether painted blue or green or working with motion captutre or just looking like her natural brown skinned self, Saldana has become the most emblematic female genre star since Sigourney Weaver. There is something highly comforting in Salandana's presence. Even when she's playing badass galactic assainsins like Gamora ( the role she introduced in Guardians Of The Galaxy and has since played in other Marvel movies), she radiates a warmth and geniality that makes her a real and anchor for genre fans. So yeah, she's been first choice for female roles in Sci-Fi fantasy projects for the last decade for good reason. We can't forget to mention she's Uhura in Star Trek as well. It also has to be acknowledged that no black actress has ever had this type of dominance in such a dominant genre. It makes one question why exactly Scarlett Johansson is the highest paid actress in Hollywood, and Saldana isn't?Yes, Johansson fluked one solo hit in Lucy, bit she's had two bombs since ( Ghost In A Shell and Rough Night) to underline she's really no more of a major solo draw than Saldana is. They both bring value to franchises. Saldana just brings value to a lot more franchises than Johansson does.
At this point you can argue that she has the greatest movie resume of any actress in the genre. Fitting that she'll be in the next 4 Avatar movies alongside that other female Sci-fi legend, Sigourney Weaver. Below, a tragic scene of Gamora confronting her adopted father and universal genocide practitioner Thanos in Avengers: Infinity War.
It's interesting to note that her two biggest films and roles have had her blue and green. Quite the combination. I'd say she fits into the sci-fi roles mostly because she kinda had an exotic feel to her. The motion-caption effects definition help as well. The reason she isn't paid as much as Scarlett Johnasson is two-fold, she's not "white" (if you know how Hollywood works, this is absolutely true), and secondly aside from Columbiana, she's never really led her own wide-released movie. After that films underperformed, it seems like studios were a lot less bearish on her giving "leading, leading roles", so she probably mostly just relies on her franchises these days, which is a shame, as I do think she has a very good presence, and she could carry her own movie. She's done well with a few indies as well. I think it's really lame that studios seemed to less bullish in creating solo lead vehicles around Saldana after Colombiana underperformed. Johansson had loads of wide release failures or underperformers as lead ( The Island etc) but kept getting chance after chance to fluke into something like Lucy. And than she kept being allowed to fail after that. With some smartly chosen vehicles, I think Saldana could easily be carrying big studio Sci-fi or action films as the headliner, but Hollywood needs to give her the same opportunity to underperform and then come back as her white counterparts. I can also see the wisdom of Saldana sticking to ensemble franchises, knowing full well she can't fail as many times as someone like Johansson is allowed to.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 7, 2019 21:46:38 GMT
Lol! Someone is clearly hitting the refresh button like crazy on the Best Actor/Actress thread, because it's gotten about 1000 views in the last hour with almost no one on the board 12,800 views to nearely 14,000 views in 1 hour, with barely no one on the board. Damn that thread has gotten popular so fast . It's a Christmas Miracle in August! This place never stops giving me jokes! Never seen something so shameless and blatant Edit: Now it's up to around 14,600 in a mere 2 hours and with only 2 Guests on the board.Lol! Sky's the limit guys. Could be on 20,000 views or more by Saturday with the refresh button. Then everyone will see how organically and legitmately Popular that thread is, compared to every other thread on this whole forum. Wow!
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 8, 2019 1:31:40 GMT
It's interesting to note that her two biggest films and roles have had her blue and green. Quite the combination. I'd say she fits into the sci-fi roles mostly because she kinda had an exotic feel to her. The motion-caption effects definition help as well. The reason she isn't paid as much as Scarlett Johnasson is two-fold, she's not "white" (if you know how Hollywood works, this is absolutely true), and secondly aside from Columbiana, she's never really led her own wide-released movie. After that films underperformed, it seems like studios were a lot less bearish on her giving "leading, leading roles", so she probably mostly just relies on her franchises these days, which is a shame, as I do think she has a very good presence, and she could carry her own movie. She's done well with a few indies as well. I think it's really lame that studios seemed to less bullish in creating solo lead vehicles around Saldana after Colombiana underperformed. Johansson had loads of wide release failures or underperformers as lead ( The Island etc) but kept getting chance after chance to fluke into something like Lucy. And than she kept being allowed to fail after that. With some smartly chosen vehicles, I think Saldana could easily be carrying big studio Sci-fi or action films as the headliner, but Hollywood needs to give her the same opportunity to underperform and then come back as her white counterparts. I can also see the wisdom of Saldana sticking to ensemble franchises, knowing full well she can't fail as many times as someone like Johansson is allowed to. Yeah, it really sucks, and if anything it speaks to the troubles and lack of opportunities that black women have in general, even if Saldana is better off then most actresses of her kind. Columbiana didn't set the world on fire, so it's better off that she plays second fiddle to men, or star as part of ensemble flick, when you clearly see based off her smaller films, that she's actually a really solid actress. Hollywood seem doesn't want to show that, however. I'd really love to see Saldana headline her sci-fi flick. Of course the big issue is getting a script that worked just like Guardians, so more preferably if it would be nice if she could land a good sci-fi flick, from a capable or acclaimed director, and then will see where it goes from there. Maybe the Avatar sequels, whenever they get released, will give her a bit of a boost, that she really deserves.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 8, 2019 2:29:40 GMT
I think it's really lame that studios seemed to less bullish in creating solo lead vehicles around Saldana after Colombiana underperformed. Johansson had loads of wide release failures or underperformers as lead ( The Island etc) but kept getting chance after chance to fluke into something like Lucy. And than she kept being allowed to fail after that. With some smartly chosen vehicles, I think Saldana could easily be carrying big studio Sci-fi or action films as the headliner, but Hollywood needs to give her the same opportunity to underperform and then come back as her white counterparts. I can also see the wisdom of Saldana sticking to ensemble franchises, knowing full well she can't fail as many times as someone like Johansson is allowed to. Yeah, it really sucks, and if anything it speaks to the troubles and lack of opportunities that black women have in general, even if Saldana is better off then most actresses of her kind. Columbiana didn't set the world on fire, so it's better off that she plays second fiddle to men, or star as part of ensemble flick, when you clearly see based off her smaller films, that she's actually a really solid actress. Hollywood seem doesn't want to show that, however. I'd really love to see Saldana headline her sci-fi flick. Of course the big issue is getting a script that worked just like Guardians, so more preferably if it would be nice if she could land a good sci-fi flick, from a capable or acclaimed director, and then will see where it goes from there. Maybe the Avatar sequels, whenever they get released, will give her a bit of a boost, that she really deserves. I feel like Saldana has so much cred and goodwill now as a female action hero in the Sci-Fi realm, that it ought to be child's play to craft a (potentially) successful headline Sci-fi film with her. Even outside of Marvel.I agree that you need an acclaimed director that the fans trust to build excitement (maybe along the lines of Denis Villenueve) . But giving her a role or character that has already existed in a different medium might help as well. Perhaps an adaptation of Frank Miller's and Dave Gibbons dystopian Martha Washington graphic novels. Cut her hair short and dye it blonde (or even bald as Martha has been sometimes) and Saldana is good to go in the role. alchetron.com/Martha-Washington-(comics)#-
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Post by stephen on Aug 8, 2019 2:48:51 GMT
I know I'm coming late to the party on John Candy, but I think one of the greatest tragedies of his passing was that he died before really tapping into his dramatic potential. He is excellent in his one scene in JFK, which hints at an untapped reservoir of possibilities. I sometimes imagine a world where John Candy didn't die, and some enterprising director decides to cast him as Judge Holden in Blood Meridian in the early 2000s, and he cleans house come awards season.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 8, 2019 2:52:31 GMT
Yeah, it really sucks, and if anything it speaks to the troubles and lack of opportunities that black women have in general, even if Saldana is better off then most actresses of her kind. Columbiana didn't set the world on fire, so it's better off that she plays second fiddle to men, or star as part of ensemble flick, when you clearly see based off her smaller films, that she's actually a really solid actress. Hollywood seem doesn't want to show that, however. I'd really love to see Saldana headline her sci-fi flick. Of course the big issue is getting a script that worked just like Guardians, so more preferably if it would be nice if she could land a good sci-fi flick, from a capable or acclaimed director, and then will see where it goes from there. Maybe the Avatar sequels, whenever they get released, will give her a bit of a boost, that she really deserves. I feel like Saldana has so much cred and goodwill now as a female action hero in the Sci-Fi realm, that it ought to be child's play to craft a (potentially) successful headline Sci-fi film with her. Even outside of Marvel.I agree that you need an acclaimed director that the fans trust to build excitement (maybe along the lines of Denis Villenueve) . But giving her a role or character that has already existed in a different medium might help as well. Perhaps an adaptation of Frank Miller's and Dave Gibbons dystopian Martha Washington graphic novels. Cut her hair short and dye it blonde (or even bald as Martha has been sometimes) and Saldana is good to go in the role. alchetron.com/Martha-Washington-(comics)#-The problem is probably her ambition, and the fact that the studios aren't exactly asking her to be in their next big sci-fi either, at least not currently. Working with someone like a Dennis Villenueve, or maybe even a juicy role in I dunna, a Nolan movie or something might help. I'm familiar with Martha Washington. I actually envisioned that character and series, as working better as a streaming service show then as a feature film, given the whole dystopian vibe. Saldana is not a bad choice for the role either.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 8, 2019 3:00:45 GMT
I know I'm coming late to the party on John Candy, but I think one of the greatest tragedies of his passing was that he died before really tapping into his dramatic potential. He is excellent in his one scene in JFK, which hints at an untapped reservoir of possibilities. I sometimes imagine a world where John Candy didn't die, and some enterprising director decides to cast him as Judge Holden in Blood Meridian in the early 2000s, and he cleans house come awards season. Yeah, I feel we agreed that Candy was only just starting to untap vast potential as a dramatic actor before his death. You could clearly see how good of an actor he was in his comedic roles, which you can't actually say about all comic actors (many tend to be heavily reliant on schtick as opposed to acting ability). I think I said the same thing about Eddie Murphy. You could see the potential for great dramatic performances even in his comic work, because the acting ability was just there.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 8, 2019 17:36:57 GMT
I know I'm coming late to the party on John Candy, but I think one of the greatest tragedies of his passing was that he died before really tapping into his dramatic potential. He is excellent in his one scene in JFK, which hints at an untapped reservoir of possibilities. I sometimes imagine a world where John Candy didn't die, and some enterprising director decides to cast him as Judge Holden in Blood Meridian in the early 2000s, and he cleans house come awards season. Yeah, I feel we agreed that Candy was only just starting to untap vast potential as a dramatic actor before his death. You could clearly see how good of an actor he was in his comedic roles, which you can't actually say about all comic actors (many tend to be heavily reliant on schtick as opposed to acting ability). I think I said the same thing about Eddie Murphy. You could see the potential for great dramatic performances even in his comic work, because the acting ability was just there.His big scene in JFK also shows the potential that he could have had in playing different kinds of roles, if he had been given the chance more often. I mean he went to the gallows for that small part, literally nailing that Louisiana accent, and everything. I actually think a lot of that can be traced to his training as an improv / sketch comedy actor. He could be a chameleon when need be, but directors rarely exploited that on screen.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 8, 2019 18:22:35 GMT
The Best Actor/Actress thread has just gained another 1500 + views from nowhere (well, the refresh button) today. Another day in infamy lol! Someone needs to stage an intervention stat, because clearly someone has actually lost their actual mind (the PM's I've been getting about this stuff have been gobsmacked and hilarious though, so thanks guys.lol!)
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 8, 2019 18:30:15 GMT
Yeah, I feel we agreed that Candy was only just starting to untap vast potential as a dramatic actor before his death. You could clearly see how good of an actor he was in his comedic roles, which you can't actually say about all comic actors (many tend to be heavily reliant on schtick as opposed to acting ability). I think I said the same thing about Eddie Murphy. You could see the potential for great dramatic performances even in his comic work, because the acting ability was just there.His big scene in JFK also shows the potential that he could have had in playing different kinds of roles, if he had been given the chance more often. I mean he went to the gallows for that small part, literally nailing that Louisiana accent, and everything. I actually think a lot of that can be traced to his training as an improv / sketch comedy actor. He could be a chameleon when need be, but directors rarely exploited that on screen. Sorry...was distracted by some of the frankly insane antics that have been going on on this board. Back to the topic: Agreed, Candy could really find the specifics in a role, including the technical aspects like the Louisiana accent in JFK. I feel he'd have become an Oscar winner had he lived (as Stephen alluded to).
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 8, 2019 18:39:42 GMT
His big scene in JFK also shows the potential that he could have had in playing different kinds of roles, if he had been given the chance more often. I mean he went to the gallows for that small part, literally nailing that Louisiana accent, and everything. I actually think a lot of that can be traced to his training as an improv / sketch comedy actor. He could be a chameleon when need be, but directors rarely exploited that on screen. Sorry...was distracted by some of the frankly insane antics that have been going on on this board. Back to the topic: Agreed, Candy could really find the specifics in a role, including the technical aspects like the Louisiana accent in JFK. I feel he'd have become an Oscar winner had he lived (as Stephen alluded to). Oh Candy could have definitely been an Oscar winner. As Stephen implied earlier too, he could have played a great villain too. His "niceness" could have been hiding a darker persona, that was just waiting to be used by a great director, and it's a damn shame that we never got a chance to see it.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 8, 2019 22:55:49 GMT
Patrick Swayze
Genre: Action
For a guy who's two most famous and successful films fall squarely into the Romance category (Dirty Dancing and Ghost), I have to say that the late Patrick Swayze was probably one of the most underrated action stars ever. First off he was a really good actor, so he could sell that part (not all action movies strictly need good acting, but it never hurts). But secondly, his physicality was perfect for action movies. More a trained dancer than a martial artist, Swayze's ability to choreograph moves perfectly onscreen made him a hugely effective onscreen fighter.
One of Swayze's best action flicks is Roadhouse, in which he played Dalton, the world's greatest Bouncer, who is hired to clean up a scuzzy bar of it's unwanted clientele. Swayze gets to kick numerous amounts of ass, do fancy roundhouse kicks and does this sort of thing as effectively as Jean Claude Van Damme and Steven Segal were doing around the same time. Anyways, Roadhouse is a terrific action movie, and on top of that it also has Sam Elliot as the guy who used to be the world's greatest Bouncer, who taught Dalton everything he knows, but got too old and had to pass the mantle. It's a relationship that has echoes of The Karate Kid and the Bradley Cooper remake of A Star Is Born ( with Elliot playing wiser and grizzled, as always).
And of course there is Point Break, a much imitated action masterpiece, in which Swayze plays a Zen Master Surfer Bank Robber alongside Keanu Reeves. It's amazing.
None of Swayze's other action films quite live up to those two, but he's got some decent gems like Red Dawn, Uncommon Valor and Next Of Kin. Below, Swayze kicking some serious ass in Roadhouse:
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 9, 2019 3:18:28 GMT
Patrick SwayzeGenre: ActionFor a guy who's two most famous and successful films fall squarely into the Romance category ( Dirty Dancing and Ghost), I have to say that the late Patrick Swayze was probably one of the most underrated action stars ever. First off he was a really good actor, so he could sell that part (not all action movies strictly need good acting, but it never hurts). But secondly, his physicality was perfect for action movies. More a trained dancer than a martial artist, Swayze's ability to choreograph moves perfectly onscreen made him a hugely effective onscreen fighter. One of Swayze's best action flicks is Roadhouse, in which he played Dalton, the world's greatest Bouncer, who is hired to clean up a scuzzy bar of it's unwanted clientele. Swayze gets to kick numerous amounts of ass, do fancy roundhouse kicks and does this sort of thing as effectively as Jean Claude Van Damme and Steven Segal were doing around the same time. Anyways, Roadhouse is a terrific action movie, and on top of that it also has Sam Elliot as the guy who used to be the world's greatest Bouncer, who taught Dalton everything he knows, but got too old and had to pass the mantle. It's a relationship that has echoes of The Karate Kid and the Bradley Cooper remake of A Star Is Born ( with Elliot playing wiser and grizzled, as always). And of course there is Point Break, a much imitated action masterpiece, in which Swayze plays a Zen Master Surfer Bank Robber alongside Keanu Reeves. It's amazing. None of Swayze's other action films quite live up to those two, but he's got some decent gems like Red Dawn, Uncommon Valor and Next Of Kin. Below, Swayze kicking some serious ass in Roadhouse:
Great stuff, per usual. I never actually thought of Swayze as an action-hero in the traditional sense. He's more of a "hunky guy", who happens to break a lot of people's necks in some films, but the way you word it, I can definitely see it. The thing I always liked about Swayze is that he was an attractive-looking guy, who wasn't afraid to play weak, when it suited the film. Like in Point Break, while his character is really kinda an amoral monster, there are moments where we really get to see him get emotional, and surprisingly restrained, especially when he really starts to take Keanu Reeves under his wing. It's rather surprising that he didn't use Point Break as a springboard for more action films, instead he ofted to do failed Oscar-bait like City of Hope (which is a decent film BTW), and movies such as Father Hood. When he did return to action films with Black Dog, it seemed like a cry for relevancy, more then anything. Actually really makes me miss him. I'll admit I kinda enjoy Next of Kin. It's super kitschy, but it's got a great supporting cast, and Liam Neeson is a great sparing partner / antagonist for Swayze.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 9, 2019 4:29:49 GMT
Patrick SwayzeGenre: ActionFor a guy who's two most famous and successful films fall squarely into the Romance category ( Dirty Dancing and Ghost), I have to say that the late Patrick Swayze was probably one of the most underrated action stars ever. First off he was a really good actor, so he could sell that part (not all action movies strictly need good acting, but it never hurts). But secondly, his physicality was perfect for action movies. More a trained dancer than a martial artist, Swayze's ability to choreograph moves perfectly onscreen made him a hugely effective onscreen fighter. One of Swayze's best action flicks is Roadhouse, in which he played Dalton, the world's greatest Bouncer, who is hired to clean up a scuzzy bar of it's unwanted clientele. Swayze gets to kick numerous amounts of ass, do fancy roundhouse kicks and does this sort of thing as effectively as Jean Claude Van Damme and Steven Segal were doing around the same time. Anyways, Roadhouse is a terrific action movie, and on top of that it also has Sam Elliot as the guy who used to be the world's greatest Bouncer, who taught Dalton everything he knows, but got too old and had to pass the mantle. It's a relationship that has echoes of The Karate Kid and the Bradley Cooper remake of A Star Is Born ( with Elliot playing wiser and grizzled, as always). And of course there is Point Break, a much imitated action masterpiece, in which Swayze plays a Zen Master Surfer Bank Robber alongside Keanu Reeves. It's amazing. None of Swayze's other action films quite live up to those two, but he's got some decent gems like Red Dawn, Uncommon Valor and Next Of Kin. Below, Swayze kicking some serious ass in Roadhouse:
Great stuff, per usual. I never actually thought of Swayze as an action-hero in the traditional sense. He's more of a "hunky guy", who happens to break a lot of people's necks in some films, but the way you word it, I can definitely see it. The thing I always liked about Swayze is that he was an attractive-looking guy, who wasn't afraid to play weak, when it suited the film. Like in Point Break, while his character is really kinda an amoral monster, there are moments where we really get to see him get emotional, and surprisingly restrained, especially when he really starts to take Keanu Reeves under his wing. It's rather surprising that he didn't use Point Break as a springboard for more action films, instead he ofted to do failed Oscar-bait like City of Hope (which is a decent film BTW), and movies such as Father Hood. When he did return to action films with Black Dog, it seemed like a cry for relevancy, more then anything. Actually really makes me miss him. I'll admit I kinda enjoy Next of Kin. It's super kitschy, but it's got a great supporting cast, and Liam Neeson is a great sparing partner / antagonist for Swayze. Thanks ! For me maybe one of Swayze's biggest career mistakes was not commiting fully to the action genre when the oppourtunity was there (the same way another good actor like Wesley Snipes did, while also mixing it up with other stuff). I understand why....he had huge hits outside the genre like Ghost and Dirty Dancing, and maybe wanted to avoid typecasting as an action guy, but when he had two action flicks like Point Break and Roadhouse in his back pocket, fans of the genre would have likely stuck with him for a long time if he stayed really commited to the genre. As you said by the time he came back to action films much later with Black Dog, his career had been failing in other genres (comedies, dramas and family films like Tall Tale), and yeah, it really did seem like a desperate cry for relevancy for a guy whose star had begun to plummet drastically since the early 90"s. His greatest strengths as an actor were being a romantic lead and being a convincing ass kicker, and for some insane reason he spent years of his career in the 90's avoiding doing the two things he was really, really good at. Fine actor, but he should have left the would-be Oscarbait to Tom Hanks or whomever. But he has a nice little set/run of action films from the 80's and early 90's that I consider top notch for the genre.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 9, 2019 5:06:17 GMT
Great stuff, per usual. I never actually thought of Swayze as an action-hero in the traditional sense. He's more of a "hunky guy", who happens to break a lot of people's necks in some films, but the way you word it, I can definitely see it. The thing I always liked about Swayze is that he was an attractive-looking guy, who wasn't afraid to play weak, when it suited the film. Like in Point Break, while his character is really kinda an amoral monster, there are moments where we really get to see him get emotional, and surprisingly restrained, especially when he really starts to take Keanu Reeves under his wing. It's rather surprising that he didn't use Point Break as a springboard for more action films, instead he ofted to do failed Oscar-bait like City of Hope (which is a decent film BTW), and movies such as Father Hood. When he did return to action films with Black Dog, it seemed like a cry for relevancy, more then anything. Actually really makes me miss him. I'll admit I kinda enjoy Next of Kin. It's super kitschy, but it's got a great supporting cast, and Liam Neeson is a great sparing partner / antagonist for Swayze. Thanks ! For me maybe one of Swayze's biggest career mistakes was not commiting fully to the action genre when the oppourtunity was there (the same way another good actor like Wesley Snipes did, while also mixing it up with other stuff). I understand why....he had huge hits outside the genre like Ghost and Dirty Dancing, and maybe wanted to avoid typecasting as an action guy, but when he had two action flicks like Point Break and Roadhouse in his back pocket, fans of the genre would have likely stuck with him for a long time if he stayed really commited to the genre. As you said by the time he came back to action films much later with Black Dog, his career had been failing in other genres (comedies, dramas and family films like Tall Tale), and yeah, it really did seem like a desperate cry for relevancy for a guy whose star had begun to plummet drastically since the early 90"s. His greatest strengths as an actor were being a romantic lead and being a convincing ass kicker, and for some insane reason he spent years of his career in the 90's avoiding doing the two things he was really, really good at. Fine actor, but he should have left the would-be Oscarbait to Tom Hanks or whomever. But he has a nice little set/run of action films from the 80's and early 90's that I consider top notch for the genre. It's ironic that you mention Wesley Snipes, since he and Swayze co-starred in the drag comedy, To Wong Foo, which was actually one of Swayze's few successful films, post Point Break. I think Snipes is the opposite situation of Swayze's career, he picked too many subpar action films, he just happen to have a longer career at it, thanks to Blade. Yeah, he really should have jumped on the action-train more when he had the chance. To me his career is lot like a predecessor for the Nicolas Cage action types that would dominate much of the late 1990s. Not so much physically imposing, and buff, as they came off more realistic and relatable, but Swayze never got to that feel that same kind of success. He seemed more intent on being a really dramatic actor, and or avoiding any action related roles as much as he could. While I appreciated Swayze's attempt to stretch "his legs", so to speak, he really worked best as the "tough attractive guy!" In many ways, I actual would argue that I think he was ahead of his time.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 9, 2019 5:06:18 GMT
Just to add, talking about Swayze made me realise just how effective trained dancers can be in the action genre.
People seem to mistakenly think Michelle Yeoh (for many the greatest Martial Arts Movie actress ever) was a trained Martial Artist. She'd never done any Martial Arts training in her life when she started doing Martial Arts movies (and doing most of her own stunts in them). But like Swayze, Yeoh was a trained high level dancer ( she attended the Royal Academy Of Dance in London). And she was able to transfer that dancing skill-set of movement and choreography to martial arts movie fighting and action stuntwork. Thin line between a dancer and a fighter it seems. Looking back decades in Hollywood history, when he wanted to, Gene Kelly was also incredible in choreographed action/fight scenes. Kelly's fighting/stunt work in the 1948 version of The Three Musketeers seemed almost like a precursor to the balletic (and sometimes comedic) fight/stuntwork of Jackie Chan. A vid of Kelly showing some of his fight stuntwork in The Three Musketeers:
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