|
Post by Allenism on Mar 26, 2019 1:57:59 GMT
I've fallen out of love with her acting style more and more over time, but it's still Ryder for me even if her best roles are long behind her. That being said, Portman has shown significant growth as a performer lately and soon enough will have reached greater peaks than Ryder ever did.
And just for the helluvit, I also side with peak Ryder for looks. Portman is objectively prettier but I just prefer her opponent's more sombre, soulful beauty.
|
|
|
Post by Martin Stett on Mar 26, 2019 2:21:23 GMT
Portman is choosing some very interesting looking projects recently, and while I didn't love her early career as much as Ryder's, she is bringing it hard. I'm gonna say Ryder for now, but Nat is on her heels.
|
|
|
Post by TheAlwaysClassy on Mar 26, 2019 2:33:24 GMT
Portman and it's not close.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 2:57:06 GMT
Ryder by far. Portman is one of my least favorite big name actresses.
|
|
morton
Based
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 2,954
|
Post by morton on Mar 26, 2019 3:00:09 GMT
Portman and it's not close. Yes, I'm not a big fan of Portman as many here, and a lot of Ryder's early films are some of my favorite films, but sorry Winona, Natalie takes this easily.
|
|
|
Post by TerryMontana on Mar 26, 2019 18:17:06 GMT
Portman and it's not close. This.
|
|
|
Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Mar 26, 2019 20:37:51 GMT
Yes, Portman by quite a bit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 20:42:18 GMT
Historically-speaking, I prefer Ryder, but Portman is probably the better actor.
|
|
|
Post by Allenism on Mar 26, 2019 21:03:30 GMT
Historically-speaking, I prefer Ryder, but Portman is probably the better actor. I’m not sold on that completely. I think she’s benefited from a larger quantity of baity roles, but she also fumbles harder and more frequently than Ryder does. Like I said, both her peaks and valleys exceed Ryder’s baseline.
|
|
forksforest
Junior Member
Quit your shit-spitting
Posts: 492
Likes: 212
|
Post by forksforest on Mar 26, 2019 21:37:24 GMT
Ryder for life lol. I realize her filmography is stale now and can't objectively say I liked her in Stranger Things but by far, I vastly prefer her work and acting chops than anything that's come out of Portman.
I disagree with the comment that Portman is the better actor.... imo Ryder has more range and [back during her prime] nailed the nuances of every role, from Mermaids, to Age of Innocence, to Dracula to Girl, Interrupted. Portman has Black Swan and Jackie, both of which were technically proficient and quite well done, but I dont care about either one of those performances as much as I consistently did for Ryder's entire filmography before she dropped off the radar.
Edit: agreed about Ryder's beauty, I'm still in luv
|
|
morton
Based
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 2,954
|
Post by morton on Mar 26, 2019 22:31:17 GMT
Ryder for life lol. I realize her filmography is stale now and can't objectively say I liked her in Stranger Things but by far, I vastly prefer her work and acting chops than anything that's come out of Portman. I disagree with the comment that Portman is the better actor.... imo Ryder has more range and [back during her prime] nailed the nuances of every role, from Mermaids, to Age of Innocence, to Dracula to Girl, Interrupted. Portman has Black Swan and Jackie, both of which were technically proficient and quite well done, but I dont care about either one of those performances as much as I consistently did for Ryder's entire filmography before she dropped off the radar. Edit: agreed about Ryder's beauty, I'm still in luv I can't believe I'm actually defending Portman here, but I don't know that I would count Dracula as a plus for Ryder. While she may not have gotten as much criticism as Keanu Reeves did, I don't think she fared that much better. Also, I think with Girl, Interrupted she got majorly upstaged by Angelina Jolie, and even in Mermaids by Cher and Christina Ricci. I also feel that Ryder's limitations as an actress were already beginning to hurt her career even before the whole shoplifting thing. I think that her demons may have played a role in that as well because it seems like she was more difficult to deal with during that stage which meant that people were probably less inclined to hire her, but I'd say that she was at her peak for about 10 years or so whereas Portman has been pretty much in demand still for more than 20 years now which is really incredible.
|
|
|
Post by Allenism on Mar 26, 2019 22:51:02 GMT
Ryder for life lol. I realize her filmography is stale now and can't objectively say I liked her in Stranger Things but by far, I vastly prefer her work and acting chops than anything that's come out of Portman. I disagree with the comment that Portman is the better actor.... imo Ryder has more range and [back during her prime] nailed the nuances of every role, from Mermaids, to Age of Innocence, to Dracula to Girl, Interrupted. Portman has Black Swan and Jackie, both of which were technically proficient and quite well done, but I dont care about either one of those performances as much as I consistently did for Ryder's entire filmography before she dropped off the radar. Edit: agreed about Ryder's beauty, I'm still in luv I can't believe I'm actually defending Portman here, but I don't know that I would count Dracula as a plus for Ryder. While she may not have gotten as much criticism as Keanu Reeves did, I don't think she fared that much better. Also, I think with Girl, Interrupted she got majorly upstaged by Angelina Jolie, and even in Mermaids by Cher and Christina Ricci. I also feel that Ryder's limitations as an actress were already beginning to hurt her career even before the whole shoplifting thing. I think that her demons may have played a role in that as well because it seems like she was more difficult to deal with during that stage which meant that people were probably less inclined to hire her, but I'd say that she was at her peak for about 10 years or so whereas Portman has been pretty much in demand still for more than 20 years now which is really incredible. I don't think there's a reliable correlation between how "in demand" an actor is and the caliber of their talent. There are plenty of gainfully employed actors who don't have a lot to offer but are consistently useable in ways that make them a safe bet for the higher-ups. I agree that Ryder's career felt very zeitgeisty in the 80s/early 90s and a lot of the parts she landed exploited this very "currentness", but Little Women, Mermaids, Heathers, The Age of Innocence, Celebrity, Girl, Interrupted, etc. all demonstrate that she had the chops to deliver a good performance regardless. Portman has turned in some laudable work recently but she's also been terrible more than a few times. Even as recently in Annihilation she hit the same false notes and fell short of the realizing her character's full potential.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 22:56:24 GMT
I can't believe none of you guys is mentioning "Reality Bites" for Ryder - that's her best performance, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by JangoB on Mar 26, 2019 23:03:48 GMT
I really like Portman but Wino Forever.
|
|
|
Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Mar 26, 2019 23:44:23 GMT
The only Ryder performances I've seen that I really liked was Little Women and Heathers, although I suppose she was quality in Girl Interrupted too, if a bit upstaged by Jolie and Murphy. Her turn in Age of Innocence never worked for me and has the same kind of histronics present in her worst work, Dracula and The Crucible. I like her work with Burton but those aren't substantial roles. They didn't give Ryder much room to go overboard or make bad decisions but the inverse is also true. She carries them on her own charisma but doesn't have much more to do than just be there.
Portman is hit or miss too for sure, but between Leon, Garden State, Closer and Jackie, she has the better oeuvre of work overall and fewer failures so she's my choice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 13:55:00 GMT
pacinoyes - Pacino is indeed very sexy in that scene - I've never seen him perform Shakespeare before!
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2019 14:06:57 GMT
Portman is a vessel. By which I mean, her natural talent is fairly limited, but she recognises that film is a directors medium, and if she attaches herself to the right director, they can draw a performance from her that she'd be unable to come up with organically. I always question the talent of actors who don't seem very capable of self-direction, and Portman is one of those few actors at the high level who seems actively bad at self-direction when faced with a director not focused on shaping her performance. Her perfromances in the Star Wars trilogy bordered on embarrassing, and while she wasn't as bad in the Thor films, she was still flat and dull.
Ryder was a clear natural talent. The shoplifting scandal scuppered her career, so we'll never know if she could have maintained her career like the mostly scandal free Portman, but I suspect if Ryder was working with the same auteurs Portman does, she'd be doing work as good or better.
|
|
avnermoriarti
Badass
Friends say I’ve changed. They’re right.
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 1,274
|
Post by avnermoriarti on Mar 27, 2019 17:55:01 GMT
Portman is doing some interesting things the last decade but barely she manages to explore the full potential of what she has on her hands, even Vox Lux felt a little vanilla, but all what she's been doing could be a prelude of something better, so for now I'm gonna say Ryder, she just is much cooler and effortless on screen, even in Age of Innocence, I fell under her spell and thought she was..... innocent, lel.
|
|
|
Post by cheesecake on Mar 29, 2019 2:41:24 GMT
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 29, 2019 3:40:32 GMT
I think it's a case of perception through time with these 2.
For Portman, I think she might've excited people more than Ryder did when she first started out. She really captivated people with her very first performance, in Leon. Able to capture a sense of humanity which resonated strongly with Leon fans. I think the appeal of Leon is largely the sadness of the ending, but still doesn't change the fact that people really liked her and the film at the time.
Then she had this reputation for being "a promising child star." And did nothing to damage that until the early 00s. In the early 00s was when the hatorade for Portman first came around. They forgave her for Padme Amidala in the first film, but in the 2nd film her performance was just bad. She was nothing special in the first, but the whole film was a disaster she hardly was singled out as particularly egregious. But for Attack of the Clones, her acting was roasted for being some kind of laughable. After that came 4 years of films that were heavily criticized in the early 00s. While she earned a nomination for Closer - her performance was highly divisive and got a lot of criticism for phoniness and overly dramatic Portman wheelhouse tendencies. Garden State disgusted lots of people, and V for Vendetta is certainly no great achievement for anybody involved.
Then I think you can argue Black Swan did change her career or at least gave her a fresh direction, but I think Jackie is the performance of her career to remember but obviously that doesn't appeal to the more common film fans that like Portman mostly for Garden State, Closer, and Leon - more middle brow stuff able to induce more fans.
For Ryder, again started out as a child star but thought of as very vanilla/soft/basic sensibilities. 1988-1992 was when we were first used to the stigma of Ryder being a soft pop culture icon, and I agree with Allenism... zeitgeist-y. In Beetlejuice was when people first took notice of her, and they responded well to her presence - they liked her punk-y vibe. In Heathers, she was also mostly liked - though not quite there as an actress - but still she had a sizeable enough fanbase, just wasn't approved by the film fans that view films very seriously. I think that was where the perception mostly came from, it took a while for "serious" film fans to finally get with Ryder, and 5 years from 1988-1992 was a long enough time for her initial perception to persist. Mostly thought of as fine in Edward Scissorhands, Mermaids, and Dracula but she was mostly associated with pop culture, girl with a pleasant face, but wasn't hyped up to be possibly the next best thing like Portman was after Leon.
It was The Age of Innocence that flipped the page for Ryder, and her perception started to change after that and Little Women (2 positively received Oscar nominations). While divisive in The Crucible, I think her acting talent began to show at that point. Girl, Interrupted being her last hurrah, but a highly successful film and yielded great notices for all 3 mini-cultural icons: Jolie, Ryder, and Murphy. Followed by that famous shoplifting incident we're all aware of.
I prefer Ryder personally though.
|
|