Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 27, 2019 22:47:06 GMT
this has been a really strange year for category placements. I'm seeing category fraud all over the place (starting with Queen Colman and her bitches -- I'm going to be calling them that all year) and I wanted to do a quick poll to get my bearings and see where everyone else stands.
The performances I'm conflicted about (I'm sure there are others worth discussing - please bring them forward if you think of them):
Colman / Stone / Weisz - The Favourite
Timothée Chalamet - Beautiful Boy
Mahershala Ali - Green Book
Thomasin McKenzie - Leave No Trace
Joanna Kulig - Cold War
McAdams / Nivola - Disobedience
Steven Yeun - Burning
Adam Driver - BlacKkKlansman
Blake Lively - A Simple Favor
Davis / Debicki / Rodriguez - Widows
so this is my take:
Colman / Stone / Weisz are all co-lead. I think (I may be wrong) that Stone gets the most screentime but the movie is very much about the power struggle within this triangle of women, with Stone and Weisz both vying for influence over Colman and Colman deciding on whom to bestow her favor. The movie treats these struggles and exchanges equitably and examines them thoroughly on both sides of that power dynamic, so in my mind they're all leads because the film grants to all them that same level of dramatic significance.
Chalamet is also lead. Yes I know everyone hates this performance and wants to just wipe Beautiful Boy from their memory Eternal Sunshine-style but think about how much the film revolves around Chalamet's struggles with addiction. He's absent for parts of the film but so is Carrell. The movie is about how Nic's father processes his son's addiction yes, but it's also and more importantly about his relationship with Nic and Nic's personal demons (the film is based on both of their memoirs), and in that way both characters are on narrative common ground. They share the same significance. They both share scenes together and are developed separately in their own scenes. Both are absent at times but everything in the film comes back to Nic's addition. The entire movie revolves around him. That combined with the fact that he has SO MUCH of his own screentime even apart from Carrell is enough for me to have him in Lead. He's definitely Lead, no question in my mind.
Ali is lead as well. This is the most blatant category fraud of the season (well McKenzie too but she wasn't as relevant). Ali and Mortensen are virtually in every scene together once Ali enters the frame at the 15-minute mark. Once he enters the picture the movie is just as much about him as it is about Mortensen and they share the rest of the screentime almost equally. Should he be supporting just because he was absent for the first 15 minutes? Hell no. He's without a doubt Lead.
McKenzie is obviously Lead. I mean come on. I know she got Hailee Steinfeld-ed with this performance but does anyone on this board think she's supporting? I assume not but I'm open arguments...
Kulig...now this is a complicated one because the film is indelibly told from the male perspective of this relationship and Kulig is absent for at least half the film. I don't remember her getting any scenes on her own. If she was in frame, it was because she was with Kot's character. I know she was campaigned as lead all season and I know most people have her as lead. I do too but now I'm not sure...I mean she really is absent for much of the film and it isn't about her perspective, it's about his perspective. I'm not sure where I stand on this one. What do y'all think?
McAdams and Nivola...this one's also interesting. I think Nivola is squarely supporting but I could see how someone could argue that his weight in this love triangle is just as significant. Still, I think someone like me would be the one to make that argument and even I think he's supporting, if only because his character drops off so much by the third act. And that's where McAdams comes in. I was initially shocked that so many people pegged her in supporting and I think it's for the same reason that people have Nivola in supporting, only opposite. What I mean by that is that the film is about this love triangle and focuses specifically on the budding romantic tension and personal history of Weisz and McAdams where Nivola drops off for the third act McAdams is mostly absent for the first act. It isn't until the 30 minute mark when she becomes a "main" character. Until that point she's mostly in the background, where Nivola is mostly in the background at the end, but she stays a main character until the ending. I've said this before and I still believe it: endings carry more weight than beginnings. Even though McAdams is absent for that first part, the movie is clearly about Weisz's relationship with her and their history together, it's NOT just about Weisz. You could say that Weisz is "more lead" than McAdams the way Carrell is "more" lead than Chalamet but the film is about both of them. I say McAdams is Co-Lead.
Steven Yeun is supporting I say. I just mention him because I'm fishing for an argument. I assume most have him as supporting too but I could see someone peg him as Lead and I'd like to see that argument if it's out there somewhere.
Driver is supporting too. Same thing with Yeun. I could see the argument for his placement, I'm just curious to see if someone makes it.
Blake Lively is supporting. She's got such an amazing presence in this film that it's easy to forget that 1) with only one exception all her scenes exist from Kendrick's perspective and 2) she's absent for the entire middle portion. I get the argument though. This is her film by virtue of the fact that she leaves such a huge mark on it and she's the most memorable thing about it. The movie is about Kendrick's relationship to and search for that character. The movie is about her in the sense that the plot revolves around her mysterious disappearance and identity but I can't get over those two hurdles above. She's absent for most of the film and her scenes are almost entirely contained to Kendrick's.
Davis is lead, the other two are supporting. Again, I can see the argument and was just curious to see if anyone makes it. I mean, Debicki DOES get a lot of her own scenes. Something to think about.
so in conclusion this is how I'd separate them:
LEAD
Colman / Stone / Weisz - The Favourite
Timothée Chalamet - Beautiful Boy
Mahershala Ali - Green Book
Thomasin McKenzie - Leave No Trace
Rachel McAdams - Disobedience
Viola Davis - Widows
SUPPORTING
Alessandro Nivola - Disobedience
Steven Yeun - Burning
Adam Driver - BlacKkKlansman
Blake Lively - A Simple Favor
Elizabeth Debicki - Widows
HONESTLY NOT SURE
Joanna Kulig - Cold War
Thoughts on these placements? How do you place them? Does anyone have any performances to add?
The performances I'm conflicted about (I'm sure there are others worth discussing - please bring them forward if you think of them):
Colman / Stone / Weisz - The Favourite
Timothée Chalamet - Beautiful Boy
Mahershala Ali - Green Book
Thomasin McKenzie - Leave No Trace
Joanna Kulig - Cold War
McAdams / Nivola - Disobedience
Steven Yeun - Burning
Adam Driver - BlacKkKlansman
Blake Lively - A Simple Favor
Davis / Debicki / Rodriguez - Widows
so this is my take:
Colman / Stone / Weisz are all co-lead. I think (I may be wrong) that Stone gets the most screentime but the movie is very much about the power struggle within this triangle of women, with Stone and Weisz both vying for influence over Colman and Colman deciding on whom to bestow her favor. The movie treats these struggles and exchanges equitably and examines them thoroughly on both sides of that power dynamic, so in my mind they're all leads because the film grants to all them that same level of dramatic significance.
Chalamet is also lead. Yes I know everyone hates this performance and wants to just wipe Beautiful Boy from their memory Eternal Sunshine-style but think about how much the film revolves around Chalamet's struggles with addiction. He's absent for parts of the film but so is Carrell. The movie is about how Nic's father processes his son's addiction yes, but it's also and more importantly about his relationship with Nic and Nic's personal demons (the film is based on both of their memoirs), and in that way both characters are on narrative common ground. They share the same significance. They both share scenes together and are developed separately in their own scenes. Both are absent at times but everything in the film comes back to Nic's addition. The entire movie revolves around him. That combined with the fact that he has SO MUCH of his own screentime even apart from Carrell is enough for me to have him in Lead. He's definitely Lead, no question in my mind.
Ali is lead as well. This is the most blatant category fraud of the season (well McKenzie too but she wasn't as relevant). Ali and Mortensen are virtually in every scene together once Ali enters the frame at the 15-minute mark. Once he enters the picture the movie is just as much about him as it is about Mortensen and they share the rest of the screentime almost equally. Should he be supporting just because he was absent for the first 15 minutes? Hell no. He's without a doubt Lead.
McKenzie is obviously Lead. I mean come on. I know she got Hailee Steinfeld-ed with this performance but does anyone on this board think she's supporting? I assume not but I'm open arguments...
Kulig...now this is a complicated one because the film is indelibly told from the male perspective of this relationship and Kulig is absent for at least half the film. I don't remember her getting any scenes on her own. If she was in frame, it was because she was with Kot's character. I know she was campaigned as lead all season and I know most people have her as lead. I do too but now I'm not sure...I mean she really is absent for much of the film and it isn't about her perspective, it's about his perspective. I'm not sure where I stand on this one. What do y'all think?
McAdams and Nivola...this one's also interesting. I think Nivola is squarely supporting but I could see how someone could argue that his weight in this love triangle is just as significant. Still, I think someone like me would be the one to make that argument and even I think he's supporting, if only because his character drops off so much by the third act. And that's where McAdams comes in. I was initially shocked that so many people pegged her in supporting and I think it's for the same reason that people have Nivola in supporting, only opposite. What I mean by that is that the film is about this love triangle and focuses specifically on the budding romantic tension and personal history of Weisz and McAdams where Nivola drops off for the third act McAdams is mostly absent for the first act. It isn't until the 30 minute mark when she becomes a "main" character. Until that point she's mostly in the background, where Nivola is mostly in the background at the end, but she stays a main character until the ending. I've said this before and I still believe it: endings carry more weight than beginnings. Even though McAdams is absent for that first part, the movie is clearly about Weisz's relationship with her and their history together, it's NOT just about Weisz. You could say that Weisz is "more lead" than McAdams the way Carrell is "more" lead than Chalamet but the film is about both of them. I say McAdams is Co-Lead.
Steven Yeun is supporting I say. I just mention him because I'm fishing for an argument. I assume most have him as supporting too but I could see someone peg him as Lead and I'd like to see that argument if it's out there somewhere.
Driver is supporting too. Same thing with Yeun. I could see the argument for his placement, I'm just curious to see if someone makes it.
Blake Lively is supporting. She's got such an amazing presence in this film that it's easy to forget that 1) with only one exception all her scenes exist from Kendrick's perspective and 2) she's absent for the entire middle portion. I get the argument though. This is her film by virtue of the fact that she leaves such a huge mark on it and she's the most memorable thing about it. The movie is about Kendrick's relationship to and search for that character. The movie is about her in the sense that the plot revolves around her mysterious disappearance and identity but I can't get over those two hurdles above. She's absent for most of the film and her scenes are almost entirely contained to Kendrick's.
Davis is lead, the other two are supporting. Again, I can see the argument and was just curious to see if anyone makes it. I mean, Debicki DOES get a lot of her own scenes. Something to think about.
so in conclusion this is how I'd separate them:
LEAD
Colman / Stone / Weisz - The Favourite
Timothée Chalamet - Beautiful Boy
Mahershala Ali - Green Book
Thomasin McKenzie - Leave No Trace
Rachel McAdams - Disobedience
Viola Davis - Widows
SUPPORTING
Alessandro Nivola - Disobedience
Steven Yeun - Burning
Adam Driver - BlacKkKlansman
Blake Lively - A Simple Favor
Elizabeth Debicki - Widows
HONESTLY NOT SURE
Joanna Kulig - Cold War
Thoughts on these placements? How do you place them? Does anyone have any performances to add?
