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Post by ibbi on Sept 4, 2017 21:26:16 GMT
Those last couple of images, oh my gosh. Need that GIF asap. It's like... Leave the past in the past. Stop trying to solve everything.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 23:43:36 GMT
I do not want another season. This was too perfect.
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Post by JangoB on Sept 5, 2017 7:38:45 GMT
This is genuinely one of the greatest endings to any piece of filmmaking I've ever seen. And genuinely unlike any other ending I've ever seen. This doesn't give food for thought and food for emotion for upcoming days - it's food for years to come. And as much as my most primal feelings want to see things resolved, I sincerely hope that a continuation and explanation is never made and given. This is as perfect as anything Lynch has ever done. And a kudos to Mark Frost as well.
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Post by JangoB on Sept 5, 2017 14:25:44 GMT
I don't think I've ever been so distracted by a piece of filmmaking - I've barely done any work today because I can't stop thinking about the finale. It seems to exist in its own very special realm, the emotions surround it are just overwhelming and so haunting. And I'm even more deeply haunted by it all after reading up on some things that I (honestly) didn't pick up on the first viewing - the 'little girl down the lane' question (Audrey / The Evolution of the Arm), the names of the current and previous owners of the Palmer house in the final scene (this shit is truly haunting), the fact that Diane and Coop (or Richard and Linda) had sex with the song from Episode 8 playing. Fuck me, there's so much. Audrey's fate too. That goddamn beat up jail dude who kept repeating stuff he heard (is he also manufactured?). Cooper's face superimposed over the stuff at the Sherrif's Station after Bob's destroyed, as well as the 'We live inside a dream' line. The two brief yet insanely scary appearances of the Jumping Man during the season. Just that whole scene with Cooper and Laura in the woods. Ohh my, I've been thoroughly lynched and frosted and I don't think I'll be able to recover. And what a great feeling.
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chris3
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I just ordered a slice of pumpkin pie...
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Post by chris3 on Sept 6, 2017 2:50:59 GMT
So I'm still reeling over that haunting final scene, and all of my thoughts and interpretations have been more eloquently stated elsewhere by others. I think it's going to take us all many days, months, or years to wrap our heads around everything that just transpired this season, so let me just state that I find it extremely fearless for Lynch to end this season with the same conviction that caused him to make Fire Walk With Me: at the end of the day, Twin Peaks is a tragedy about sexual abuse. This event happened. It was used (exploited?) to set up a very fun and enjoyable murder mystery about a boy scout trying to solve and correct this terrible event, but that was not what ultimately fascinated David Lynch about this world. What fascinated him was the ramifications of this great evil that has been perpetrated, this evil that has existed and will continue to exist throughout the history of mankind. Lynch is obsessed with men destroying women, and it is perfectly fitting that his grand opus ends with the male hero, in proper masculine fashion, trying to "fix" this great trauma, and thus sadly forcing the female hero to relive it all over again in an endless, cruel loop of inter-dimensional terror. Cooper retconning Laura's murder felt so emotionally satisfying in the moment, but even then my logical brain at the time recognized that this was a lie, a betrayal of the themes of the series. I should've known that this was Lynch's way of saying, "You want to be comforted, you want someone to tell you the world is understandable and just. You want Cooper's righteousness to restore balance and order to the terrors and abstractions that you the viewer face within this very absurd world you live in. And that's a lie. I'm going to focus my conclusion on the truth of this situation, and the truth is that this can never be undone, it will never end, and it can never be solved."
I've seen some theories that this ending was meant to symbolize an eternal loop of good vs evil, that there will always be victims like Laura and heroes like Coop that will try to save them. I don't exactly buy this, since Lynch deliberately decided to strip away all the warmth, righteousness, and competence of the final Coop (Richard?) in Part 18. It's like he's saying the very arrogant act of trying to undo the sins of the past will compromise the decency within yourself and corrupt your soul. That it's better to let go and look to the future, and accept the fact that death is just a change and not an ending. And this compels me to believe that there will be no season 4, and we're destined to end our journey into Twin Peaks directly within the heart of darkness, right where it began. That may be subversive, confusing, audacious, cruel, and unsatisfying. But it's also perfect. And I'd rather have a perfect ending than a satisfying ending. I'd rather forego my hopes of a comforting catharsis in favor of an honest statement about the evil that men do.
Now that we're at the end of all things, I want to deeply thank you all for your contributions to this great thread. My GF and I are both obsessed with this show, but literally none of my real world friends have even watched it. So I've greatly relished the chance to read your insights and opinions on this very unconventional, supremely special season of television we've all witnessed together.
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Post by moonman157 on Sept 6, 2017 3:17:44 GMT
So I'm still reeling over that haunting final scene, and all of my thoughts and interpretations have been more eloquently stated elsewhere by others. I think it's going to take us all many days, months, or years to wrap our heads around everything that just transpired this season, so let me just state that I find it extremely fearless for Lynch to end this season with the same conviction that caused him to make Fire Walk With Me: at the end of the day, Twin Peaks is a tragedy about sexual abuse. This event happened. It was used (exploited?) to set up a very fun and enjoyable murder mystery about a boy scout trying to solve and correct this terrible event, but that was not what ultimately fascinated David Lynch about this world. What fascinated him was the ramifications of this great evil that has been perpetrated, this evil that has existed and will continue to exist throughout the history of mankind. Lynch is obsessed with men destroying women, and it is perfectly fitting that his grand opus ends with the male hero, in proper masculine fashion, trying to "fix" this great trauma, and thus sadly forcing the female hero to relive it all over again in an endless, cruel loop of inter-dimensional terror. Cooper retconning Laura's murder felt so emotionally satisfying in the moment, but even then my logical brain at the time recognized that this was a lie, a betrayal of the themes of the series. I should've known that this was Lynch's way of saying, "You want to be comforted, you want someone to tell you the world is understandable and just. You want Cooper's righteousness to restore balance and order to the terrors and abstractions that you the viewer face within this very absurd world you live in. And that's a lie. I'm going to focus my conclusion on the truth of this situation, and the truth is that this can never be undone, it will never end, and it can never be solved." I've seen some theories that this ending was meant to symbolize an eternal loop of good vs evil, that there will always be victims like Laura and heroes like Coop that will try to save them. I don't exactly buy this, since Lynch deliberately decided to strip away all the warmth, righteousness, and competence of the final Coop (Richard?) in Part 18. It's like he's saying the very arrogant act of trying to undo the sins of the past will compromise the decency within yourself and corrupt your soul. That it's better to let go and look to the future, and accept the fact that death is just a change and not an ending. And this compels me to believe that there will be no season 4, and we're destined to end our journey into Twin Peaks directly within the heart of darkness, right where it began. That may be subversive, confusing, audacious, cruel, and unsatisfying. But it's also perfect. And I'd rather have a perfect ending than a satisfying ending. I'd rather forego my hopes of a comforting catharsis in favor of an honest statement about the evil that men do. Now that we're at the end of all things, I want to deeply thank you all for your contributions to this great thread. My GF and I are both obsessed with this show, but literally none of my real world friends have even watched it. So I've greatly relished the chance to read your insights and opinions on this very unconventional, supremely special season of television we've all witnessed together. Beautifully said as usual. I agree wholly with everything you've said. It has been somewhat strange, though the impulse is understandable, to see pockets of the internet that are doing intellectual gymnastics to see that ending as something positive or even suggesting of potential happiness. And very much the same to you with your last comment, and everyone else who posted in this thread. It was a great ride and I hope this thread stays alive for people catching up or rewatching it or whatever. This has been my favourite thread to come into every week and I'm glad we all got to share things with one another.
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Post by stephen on Sept 6, 2017 8:43:36 GMT
It's been a few days while I've chewed those final two episodes (and, as a result, the series as a whole) over in my head, and I think that while there are so many things left in the air (*cough* Sarah/Judy *cough*), Lynch and Frost simultaneously opening doors while closing others was absolutely the right call to make. Lynch's work in general, and Twin Peaks in particular, has never been about answering questions; if they'd had their druthers, Laura Palmer's murderer would never have been revealed in the first place.
What we got with the revival is more than a rarity, it's an undisputed miracle: eighteen hours of undistilled, unfettered art from the greatest director who ever lived. A quarter of a century after he changed the face of television storytelling, the motherfucker did it again, and he and Frost did it with such alacrity that you'd think that the show getting canceled and Fire Walk With Me's tepid response was all planned, just so that they'd come back in twenty-five years and obliterate the television landscape.
That ending is haunting, more than "How's Annie?" ever was, and while I hope that this isn't the last we see from the Twin Peaks realm or from Lynch in particular, if you gotta go out, that's about the highest note anyone could ask for.
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Post by notacrook on Sept 6, 2017 13:52:51 GMT
Fiinally was able to finish it after getting back from a festival. Those last two episodes were pretty magnificent, and a brilliant way to conclude an outstanding season of television. I don't think I adored it quite as much as most of you guys here, but there's no denying it was something truly special and like nothing we've ever seen before. I'd say it probably ranks as my second favourite show of the year after The Leftovers third season. It's also significantly better than the original series in almost all aspects as well, in my opinion.
Part 17 was the climactic, traditionally satisfying episode, full of insane moments from start to finish. It's funny, my boyfriend and I were literally saying it'd be great for "The World Spins" to close out an episode, and then there it was. Part 18 was a quieter, more intimate hour that was just a beautiful end to Twin Peaks as a whole (I'd welcome more, but right now I'm happy as it is). That final scream was so fucking haunting, and everything leading up to it was equally glorious. My one complaint is that I really do think we should have got some kind of resolution with Audrey - I get that this isn't a show about answers, but still, I felt cheated with that one. Other than that, I can't say enough good things about this conclusion.
Overall, I wouldn't quite say this was a perfect 18-episode saga, but it was damn near close, and I could not be more thankful to Lynch and co. for bringing this to us.
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Post by Viced on Sept 6, 2017 15:58:01 GMT
lol
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Sept 7, 2017 10:53:43 GMT
So I haven't been around for all the discussion of the last 5 or 6 episodes of the show, but I've read through all the posts and I love reading all of your opinions on Twin Peaks almost as much as I love watching Twin Peaks.
So now that I'm done with being a big old sycophant, what was my ultimate opinion on Twin Peaks: The Return? Well about halfway through I stated this would most likely end up as my #1 TV Season ever, and nothing since then has made me change my mind. #1 Baby. The Wire Season 2, Sorry Bout It!
In the months, weeks and days prior to Episode 1; I tried very hard to keep my expectations in check. I needn't have bothered, as even if I'd allowed them to spiral out of control they still would have been surpassed.
Also, that ending, it'll stay with me forever. I think I said 'I don't get it' out loud about twenty times within five minutes of it ending, and I know I never fully will, in fact none of us ever fully will. Isn't that the joy of it all though, I think so anyway.
David Lynch is now responsible for writing and directing my favourite film of all time, co-writing and directing my favourite TV Season of all time, and co-writing and directing my favourite TV episode of all time. What a greedy shit!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 21:37:10 GMT
Beautifully said as usual. I agree wholly with everything you've said. It has been somewhat strange, though the impulse is understandable, to see pockets of the internet that are doing intellectual gymnastics to see that ending as something positive or even suggesting of potential happiness. Hm. While I don't necessarily disagree that the ending is a depressing/morbid one, I do think it can be interpreted in a number of ways that all make sense. It seems to me that Laura's scream at the end destroyed the dream world/limbo that Judy had sent "Richard" to. And I'd like to think that the "real" Laura still got to Heaven as shown at the end of Fire Walk With Me. I mean, I get what you're saying and I'm by no means saying I'm 100% right here, but I personally don't see the ending being quite as dark as some people have suggested.
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Post by stephen on Sept 8, 2017 2:57:47 GMT
So I haven't been around for all the discussion of the last 5 or 6 episodes of the show, but I've read through all the posts and I love reading all of your opinions on Twin Peaks almost as much as I love watching Twin Peaks. So now that I'm done with being a big old sycophant, what was my ultimate opinion on Twin Peaks: The Return? Well about halfway through I stated this would most likely end up as my #1 TV Season ever, and nothing since then has made me change my mind. #1 Baby. The Wire Season 2, Sorry Bout It! In the months, weeks and days prior to Episode 1; I tried very hard to keep my expectations in check. I needn't have bothered, as even if I'd allowed them to spiral out of control they still would have been surpassed. Also, that ending, it'll stay with me forever. I think I said 'I don't get it' out loud about twenty times within five minutes of it ending, and I know I never fully will, in fact none of us ever fully will. Isn't that the joy of it all though, I think so anyway. David Lynch is now responsible for writing and directing my favourite film of all time, co-writing and directing my favourite TV Season of all time, and co-writing and directing my favourite TV episode of all time. What a greedy shit! Another fan of Frank Sobotka? Awesome.
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Post by moonman157 on Sept 8, 2017 3:32:07 GMT
Beautifully said as usual. I agree wholly with everything you've said. It has been somewhat strange, though the impulse is understandable, to see pockets of the internet that are doing intellectual gymnastics to see that ending as something positive or even suggesting of potential happiness. Hm. While I don't necessarily disagree that the ending is a depressing/morbid one, I do think it can be interpreted in a number of ways that all make sense. It seems to me that Laura's scream at the end destroyed the dream world/limbo that Judy had sent "Richard" to. And I'd like to think that the "real" Laura still got to Heaven as shown at the end of Fire Walk With Me. I mean, I get what you're saying and I'm by no means saying I'm 100% right here, but I personally don't see the ending being quite as dark as some people have suggested. Interesting. Care to explain what makes you think that Laura's scream destroys the dream world/limbo? From my point of view one of the main reasons the ending is so depressing is that Cooper has stolen the "real" Laura's transcendent moment that ends FWWM away from her. His own naive belief in being able to save her, which ultimately comes down to him acting godlike and thus destroying things by intervening on the night of her death, is really him taking control of her life. He is so obsessive and prideful in his feeling that he can right the past that he ends up interfering further with her own path, stripping her of the redemptive moment that she gets in FWWM. I really have a hard time understanding how people can see the ending of The Return, even outside of interpreting exactly what happens in a narrative sense, and perceive the extremely bleak tone and aesthetic as indicating some kind of possible happiness. Everything about the way it's shot suggests that it is intended to feel very dark and horrifying. I have a hard time seeing how a shocking scream that transforms an older woman into the terrorized teenager she's forgotten could be used to indicate a possible escape.
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Post by ibbi on Sept 8, 2017 9:14:09 GMT
Rewatching original series. Was this bad boy funded by the pie, donut, and coffee companies of America? Because I cannot stop craving pie, donuts, and coffee while watching it. Damn you, David Lynch. Anyway, everything about it is still holding up after the corruption of it all by The Return... Except Audrey the magic is gone.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Sept 8, 2017 14:48:55 GMT
So I haven't been around for all the discussion of the last 5 or 6 episodes of the show, but I've read through all the posts and I love reading all of your opinions on Twin Peaks almost as much as I love watching Twin Peaks. So now that I'm done with being a big old sycophant, what was my ultimate opinion on Twin Peaks: The Return? Well about halfway through I stated this would most likely end up as my #1 TV Season ever, and nothing since then has made me change my mind. #1 Baby. The Wire Season 2, Sorry Bout It! In the months, weeks and days prior to Episode 1; I tried very hard to keep my expectations in check. I needn't have bothered, as even if I'd allowed them to spiral out of control they still would have been surpassed. Also, that ending, it'll stay with me forever. I think I said 'I don't get it' out loud about twenty times within five minutes of it ending, and I know I never fully will, in fact none of us ever fully will. Isn't that the joy of it all though, I think so anyway. David Lynch is now responsible for writing and directing my favourite film of all time, co-writing and directing my favourite TV Season of all time, and co-writing and directing my favourite TV episode of all time. What a greedy shit! Another fan of Frank Sobotka? Awesome. I loved all the Sobotka clan, even Ziggy, who desperate and annoying as he was ended up being on of the characters on the show that I really sympathised with. It's a tough one between Season 2 & 4 as to the better Season, but I typically side with 4 as it introduced the much wider world of what the show would become.
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Post by stephen on Sept 8, 2017 14:52:59 GMT
Another fan of Frank Sobotka? Awesome. I loved all the Sobotka clan, even Ziggy, who desperate and annoying as he was ended up being on of the characters on the show that I really sympathised with. It's a tough one between Season 2 & 4 as to the better Season, but I typically side with 4 as it introduced the much wider world of what the show would become. Season 4 is one of the best seasons of television ever, and every amount of praise that is heaped on it is justified and deserved, but Season 2 slightly edges it out because, for me, it is the entire ethos of the show in microcosm. Frank Sobotka is perhaps the most tragic character to ever be portrayed on television, and it's criminal that Chris Bauer is hardly mentioned in the same breath as Michael K. Williams or Idris Elba. What's more is that it is probably the bleakest season of the show, and the season where evil really does win out. The corner boys and the Barksdale/Stanfield crews talk about "the game," but to the Greek and Spiros, it's more than a game: it's a business.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 15:40:19 GMT
Hm. While I don't necessarily disagree that the ending is a depressing/morbid one, I do think it can be interpreted in a number of ways that all make sense. It seems to me that Laura's scream at the end destroyed the dream world/limbo that Judy had sent "Richard" to. And I'd like to think that the "real" Laura still got to Heaven as shown at the end of Fire Walk With Me. I mean, I get what you're saying and I'm by no means saying I'm 100% right here, but I personally don't see the ending being quite as dark as some people have suggested. Interesting. Care to explain what makes you think that Laura's scream destroys the dream world/limbo? From my point of view one of the main reasons the ending is so depressing is that Cooper has stolen the "real" Laura's transcendent moment that ends FWWM away from her. His own naive belief in being able to save her, which ultimately comes down to him acting godlike and thus destroying things by intervening on the night of her death, is really him taking control of her life. He is so obsessive and prideful in his feeling that he can right the past that he ends up interfering further with her own path, stripping her of the redemptive moment that she gets in FWWM. I really have a hard time understanding how people can see the ending of The Return, even outside of interpreting exactly what happens in a narrative sense, and perceive the extremely bleak tone and aesthetic as indicating some kind of possible happiness. Everything about the way it's shot suggests that it is intended to feel very dark and horrifying. I have a hard time seeing how a shocking scream that transforms an older woman into the terrorized teenager she's forgotten could be used to indicate a possible escape. The way the "Palmer" house collapses as the lights go out reminded me very strongly of the moment before a nightmare ends. That suggested to me that Carrie's scream somehow managed to wake Laura up. And I'm not quite sure I agree that Richard is the same Cooper at the end of Part 17. I got the impression that he was a new, mix of all the Cooper's that came before. But yeah, I could be totally off the mark here and don't even really disagree with your interpretation. Those were just my first Impressions. And the tone does feel quite bleak. I'll have to watch the final episode again and see if it hits me differently.
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Post by moonman157 on Sept 8, 2017 16:15:34 GMT
Interesting. Care to explain what makes you think that Laura's scream destroys the dream world/limbo? From my point of view one of the main reasons the ending is so depressing is that Cooper has stolen the "real" Laura's transcendent moment that ends FWWM away from her. His own naive belief in being able to save her, which ultimately comes down to him acting godlike and thus destroying things by intervening on the night of her death, is really him taking control of her life. He is so obsessive and prideful in his feeling that he can right the past that he ends up interfering further with her own path, stripping her of the redemptive moment that she gets in FWWM. I really have a hard time understanding how people can see the ending of The Return, even outside of interpreting exactly what happens in a narrative sense, and perceive the extremely bleak tone and aesthetic as indicating some kind of possible happiness. Everything about the way it's shot suggests that it is intended to feel very dark and horrifying. I have a hard time seeing how a shocking scream that transforms an older woman into the terrorized teenager she's forgotten could be used to indicate a possible escape. But yeah, I could be totally off the mark here and don't even really disagree with your interpretation. Those were just my first Impressions. And the tone does feel quite bleak. I'll have to watch the final episode again and see if it hits me differently. I completely agree with you on that. I actually have plans to marathon the entire season next weekend. I might come out with a completely different perspective on it after that.
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Post by ingmarhepburn on Sept 9, 2017 12:19:33 GMT
As bewildered as I was with the last episode, I know that Lynch made it for a reason and looking back at his filmography it's only natural that he wanted to leave some questions unanswered and some things up in the air.
Overall, I think this season is something very, very special that should be treasured, and I feel really lucky for having had the chance to see it. We need more tv shows with this level of quality, and we need more filmmakers like David Lynch.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 16:15:11 GMT
I don't think we'll ever see a single season of TV this good again. At least not anytime soon.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Sept 9, 2017 17:03:00 GMT
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Post by idioticbunny on Sept 9, 2017 17:14:16 GMT
Actual footage of me watching the finale last night:
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Post by idioticbunny on Sept 9, 2017 18:06:31 GMT
I'm starting to think that maybe the reason they released Part 17 and Part 18 at the same time was because Lynch was essentially giving us the opportunity to pick our poison. The Red Pill vs. the Blue Pill, so to speak.
Part 17 is the Blue Pill. Take it, and the story ends. Everything in the police station is like the big happy reunion we all wanted. Good Cooper and the Green Glove (should be a band name by the way) defeat the Evil Cooper/BOB and all is well in the world. Twin Peaks is saved. All is good. Cooper even attempts to go back in time to save Laura. However, you would be "living inside a dream". And when she disappears, as Judy takes her away again, sealing her fate, Cooper understands this and lets go. For good. Understanding that he can't save her.
Part 18 is the Red Pill. Where Cooper finds out just how deep the rabbit hole really goes. Instead of giving up and letting go, he's continued to try to save Laura again. And again. But each time met with failure and resistance. In a last ditch attempt, he follows the Fireman's orders and crosses the threshold into another dimension/alternate universe/past/future/whatever the hell you want it to be. He decides to risk it all to save Laura one last time. And in a way, he did. And he didn't. Though she might not be the same Laura, she's still stuck living the same dead-end life in a dark, mysterious, ruthless town and by bringing her back to where it all began, she's forced to relive it. The cycle continues. Cooper's obsession for good - not unlike our own - prevails in saving her, but the power of evil - our own obsessive nature in a satisfying conclusion - prevails in forcing the cycle to continue forever. The world spinning on and on. This will never end.
So, essentially. Pick your poison. Live blissfully with a satisfying conclusion in Part 17, knowing that our trusty Coop did all he could or live with the pain of Part 18 with our obsessive nature as fans knowing that going that extra mile might give you what you want, but at a very steep price.
It took me a while, but I think I've finally come to an answer I enjoy and while watching the finale last night, I was so angry and frustrated - feeling cheated - I realize now how brilliant it is. Personally, I might go with Part 17 and enjoy what always made the show special for me. But for those who refuse to live inside a dream, Part 18 is your answer.
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Post by ingmarhepburn on Sept 10, 2017 8:30:46 GMT
When Sunday comes and you realize there won't be a new episode:
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Post by JangoB on Sept 11, 2017 11:11:37 GMT
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