Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Apr 18, 2024 10:41:58 GMT
With all the great talk around him I'm baffled why I "discovered" him so late... is it the filmography? (his best ones seem to be either underseen or shared the scene with bigger names: Brando, Poitier, Christie-Sharif) the lack of sex appeal? or am I asking wrong questions...  |
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 18, 2024 11:18:16 GMT
Underrated.
A great actor, devoted to the "method". His lack of sex appeal or conventional good looks probably did play a part in why he never developed the kind of devoted following that other "pretty boy" method actors of his era like Marlon Brando, James Dean and Montgomery Clift did. He was more of a character actor, despite playing several substantial lead roles, and tended to be typecast as heavies or bad guys due to his looks and intensity.
Steiger was frequently accused of overacting or going over-the-top by his critics, and while there is some truth to that, and he's got some bad performances due to his indulgences, I also suspect his tendency to lean towards ham would have been less detrimental towards his reputation if he was considered a more attractive star ( you could just as easily lay the OTT ham accusations at Jack Nicholson in much of his career or Al Pacino in the latter portion of his career).
He also suffered serious bouts of depression and had a reputation of being difficult to work with, so for the last 30 years of his life, his career declined dramatically, unable to get cast in high quality projects and roles for the most part. People just began to forget about him, and his impact during the 50's and 60's in particular was lost to people. I often used to compare him to Sean Penn, in terms of declining legacy and not being percieved as a GOAT contender, but Steiger was a significantly better actor than Penn for the most part.
Maybe the rise of George C Scott didn't help him either, as Scott, a more nuanced and subtle actor than Steiger, sort of fulfilled the role of the non-pretty boy actor of unconventional looks whom critics could point to as being good enough to be America's greatest living actor or a worthy rival to Brando for that title in the 60's and 70's.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 18, 2024 11:29:58 GMT
He's about right imo .........if anything his career circumstances make him somewhat overrated.....I think MAR thinks he's underrated but I think film history sees him more clearly tbh: * He has a BA, but wasn't really a lead impressively that much * He was considered in the mid-60 America's "Best Actor" briefly but clearly wasn't ........though The Pawnbroker is an all-timer * He was the first actor who tried to parlay his fame into money by negotiating a deal to play "Marty" in the film - because he had played it to great acclaim on TV - they didn't give it to him..........and he lost out on an Oscar winning role * His decline as an actor - after No Way To Treat A Lady (1968) is a pretty steep decline * When he went big he now looks less impactful in a way than other "go big" actors - better actors - who emerged after him do not - Finney, Oldman, Pacino, Nicholson, DDL, Depardieu etc. - his "style" now appears stylized rather .................and has in a way been surpassed actually or at least was used to diminishing effect from him .........an actor should always have the ability to surprise you..........Steiger lost that I think  |
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Post by finniussnrub on Apr 18, 2024 11:39:43 GMT
I think he falls into a bit of "turning point" actor where a certain event or performance forever changes them, and with Steiger it was having won an Oscar. After that point the majority of his performances are of a man who believes he can do no wrong, so his tendency became to go big whether or not the role called for it.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 18, 2024 11:54:31 GMT
I think Steiger always had a tendency to go big, which is why The Pawnbroker was such an unexpected performance from him. He rarely underplayed.
I don't think Steiger's decline set in till 1971, the year Sergio Leone's A Fistful Of Dynamite came out, which was one of Steiger's last great films. I thought he was kind of mesmerising as Napoleon in Waterloo the year before that. But after 1971, with very few exceptions ( like a small role in The Hurricane), he was prolific in appearing in 30 years worth of crap, and with almost no distinguished performances within that run. On that basis, it's maybe not surprising his legacy took such a massive hit.
Still at his peak years as a Hollywood star, he could hold the screen with anyone.
Robert DeNiro reportedly took inspiration from Steiger's performance as Al Capone in Al Capone for his own performance in The Untouchables. If only Tom Hardy had done the same.
Michael Stuhlbarg and Vincent Piazza also talked about studying Steiger as Capone for their roles in Boardwalk Empire.
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Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Apr 18, 2024 17:32:16 GMT
and has in a way been surpassed actually or at least was used to diminishing effect from him ......... an actor should always have the ability to surprise you..........Steiger lost that I thinkWould you say Phoenix is in danger of this too? Hardy I think fits it... that's why some might've cooled on him post- Capone. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 18, 2024 17:56:41 GMT
and has in a way been surpassed actually or at least was used to diminishing effect from him ......... an actor should always have the ability to surprise you..........Steiger lost that I thinkWould you say Phoenix is in danger of this too? Hardy I think fits it... that's why some might've cooled on him post- Capone. * I think Phoenix had a year in 2023 where both of those performances suggested - he had - in some way gone up his own ass  .......and he is a guy you can argue as (imo) THE most naturally gifted post-70s US film actor along with PSH - at his best anyway......but is his 2023 a line of demarcation or just a blip overall? * I'm inclined to think it's a blip - but you never know - no one would have said Dustin Hoffman was on a decline in 1990, Sean Penn was in 2010 or Russell Crowe was after the early 2000s and they all were imo........and they all became quite stagnant in how they could move audiences where before they were deft at it....... * Where it gets interesting is that an actor of a certain stature does NOT have to be great every time out at some point..........like once you get that great actor tag it's pretty hard to lose it..........and periodically you just need to do something that people say "Oh yeah - still awesome" once in a while........at this point I don't doubt Phoenix could be great and surprising though...........to me he's earned the benefit of the doubt - he's that high on a hypothetical GOAT list......I'd say that if he had several more consecutive failures actually even....... |
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cranly
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Post by cranly on Apr 20, 2024 3:30:35 GMT
I'd say underrated just because the majority of his strongest leading roles are in neglected or underseen films:
Ken Annakin's Graham Greene adaptation Across the Bridge (1957), Richard Wilson's Al Capone (1959), Francesco Rosi's Hands Over the City (1963), Jack Smight's No Way to Treat a Lady (1968), and John Flynn's The Sergeant (1968).
Also, when people talk about 1960s US cinema, Paul Newman is usually held up as the great actor of that decade. But I would argue Steiger had a stronger run of performances than Newman during the '60s, or possibly any other American actor (maybe with the exception of Brando).
And while I agree that Steiger began to seriously decline after 1968, I think he still has at least a couple of excellent performances in the early to mid-1970s, specifically in Sergio Leone's Duck, You Sucker (1971), and as the vengeful Irish militant in Don Sharp's Hennessy (1975). It's really with his severe depression triggered by triple bypass surgery in 1976 that he totally loses his spark and sadly never regains it...
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 20, 2024 6:33:23 GMT
Also, when people talk about 1960s US cinema, Paul Newman is usually held up as the great actor of that decade. But I would argue Steiger had a stronger run of performances than Newman during the '60s, or possibly any other American actor (maybe with the exception of Brando). Sort of related to another recent thread, but I think Sidney Poitier's 1960's run of performances as a film actor probably outstrips all the guys mentioned ( certainly Brando's imho, who did some fine work, but also a lot of self-indulgent work), though Newman runs him close. Poitier was averaging like a great performance every year in the 60's, culminating in his remarkable 1967 ( where he should have been nominated for and beaten Steiger to the Oscar in for In The Heat Of The Night).But Poitier has A Raisin In The Sun, Paris Blues, Lillies Of The Field, The Slender Thread, The Long Ships, The Bedford Incident, A Patch Of Blue, To Sir With Love, Guess Who's Coming To Dinner all in that decade .That's a remarkable decade, and it may actually be better than Newman's ( Newman avoided non-Western period dramas like the plague, so no way he'd have displayed the range to do a Viking/Moor movie like The Long Ships). They were the strongest Americans (if we include non-Americans, Richard Burton and Peter O'Toole deserve consideration). If Poitier had been able to maintain relevance into the 70's and beyond, he'd be much higher on GOAT lists, but his fall off after the 60's was pretty steep and he never really recovered or did great work as an older actor. He didn't know how to transition and reinvent himself as the culture moved on in the 70's and became almost a relic (it'd have been wild if he could have done things like Shaft, Deliverance or Straw Dogs). But I'd say he owned the 60's, along with Newman ( and they were awesome together in Paris Blues).
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Apr 20, 2024 17:06:55 GMT
I think Steiger is just great! I'm not familiar with his post-win material but he had a really great run from the 50s through the mid 60s. I'll say underrated because I feel like his Oscar win (which is underrated around these parts IMO) overshadows his other great work. Pawnbroker he absolutely should've won an Oscar for and is one of the greatest performances of its era, and he was nom-worthy in Zhivago and the earlier Oklahoma (Jud Fry is the most interesting character in that script) and The Harder They Fall where he plays the crooked & ruthless boxing promoter Nick Benko. He was great at playing menacing figures but roles like Pawnbroker and Waterfront proved his emotional range and depth too, and his villains in the 50s and 60s were never caricatures.
🎵🎵 POOOOOR JUD IS DAAAID 🎵🎵
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 20, 2024 17:19:29 GMT
I think Steiger is just great! I'm not familiar with his post-win material but he had a really great run from the 50s through the mid 60s. I'll say underrated because I feel like his Oscar win (which is underrated around these parts IMO) overshadows his other great work. Pawnbroker he absolutely should've won an Oscar for and is one of the greatest performances of its era, and he was nom-worthy in Zhivago and the earlier Oklahoma (Jud Fry is the most interesting character in that script) and The Harder They Fall where he plays the crooked & ruthless boxing promoter Nick Benko. He was great at playing menacing figures but roles like Pawnbroker and Waterfront proved his emotional range and depth too, and his villains in the 50s and 60s were never caricatures. 🎵🎵 POOOOOR JUD IS DAAAID 🎵🎵Oscar for In The Heat Of The Night was obviously a make-up for The Pawnbroker, which he should have won for. But AMPAS did Steiger such a massive disservice with that win....It's literally his co-star's most iconic character. Sidney Poitier gives the defining lead actor performance of In The Heat Of The Night and it's the one people think of or gravitate to when they think of the movie. Virgil Tibbs. Steiger did fine work in the film, but it's just not played out for him as a good look in historical terms as his winning performance. Shit, they'd have been better off trying to category fraud him and give him a win in supporting, than giving best actor to him and not even nominating Poitier. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 20, 2024 18:21:41 GMT
And while I agree that Steiger began to seriously decline after 1968, I think he still has at least a couple of excellent performances in the early to mid-1970s, specifically in Sergio Leone's Duck, You Sucker (1971), and as the vengeful Irish militant in Don Sharp's Hennessy (1975). It's really with his severe depression triggered by triple bypass surgery in 1976 that he totally loses his spark and sadly never regains it... Not as big a fan of him post-1968 but Hennessy is at least interesting and pretty underseen too..........definitely his fans should seek it out.......quite an interesting, eclectic cast in that movie....... |
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Apr 21, 2024 15:50:07 GMT
I think he's rated just about right. I never thought of him as some god-tier actor, but he's respectable. I do have to say that I have not seen his Al Capone. And excuse me. I thought he had massive sex appeal in the musical Oklahoma. Almost more than Gordon MacRae, until MacRae sang. But there was also Gene Nelson. Yeah, fair to say I didn't watch Oklahoma when I was younger for the story.  The guys and Gloria Grahame. That's it. |
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.......and he is a guy you can argue as (imo) THE most naturally gifted post-70s US film actor along with PSH - at his best anyway......but is his 2023 a line of demarcation or just a blip overall?
The guys and Gloria Grahame. That's it.