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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 1, 2024 21:34:18 GMT
Who do you got MAR? Let's celebrate Beyonce's Country Album release........... or something......... Who's the GOAT......for you I mean.......I'll be over here listening to Patti Smith ..........
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futuretrunks
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Post by futuretrunks on Apr 1, 2024 23:17:16 GMT
They're probably the two most overrated living musical acts. Beyonce's early career is better than Swift's, but her solo career has been a mess IMO after her debut, no matter how many Grammys she wins. Swift just doesn't have the discography to warrant her fame; I like maybe 5 songs she's made. At least Drake before the last few years had actual hit songs you'd hear in public, seemingly on a monthly basis. His popularity felt organic.
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Post by mhynson27 on Apr 2, 2024 0:21:18 GMT
They're probably the two most overrated living musical acts. Beyonce's early career is better than Swift's, but her solo career has been a mess IMO after her debut, no matter how many Grammys she wins. Swift just doesn't have the discography to warrant her fame; I like maybe 5 songs she's made. At least Drake before the last few years had actual hit songs you'd hear in public, seemingly on a monthly basis. His popularity felt organic. All I hear in public is Swift, what are you on about?!?
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futuretrunks
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Post by futuretrunks on Apr 2, 2024 0:29:53 GMT
They're probably the two most overrated living musical acts. Beyonce's early career is better than Swift's, but her solo career has been a mess IMO after her debut, no matter how many Grammys she wins. Swift just doesn't have the discography to warrant her fame; I like maybe 5 songs she's made. At least Drake before the last few years had actual hit songs you'd hear in public, seemingly on a monthly basis. His popularity felt organic. All I hear in public is Swift, what are you on about?!? I heard like 80 Drake songs/features in public between 2009 and 2022.
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Post by TheAlwaysClassy on Apr 2, 2024 1:16:38 GMT
I've been able to make it through a Beyoncé album. Can't say the same for Swift.
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Post by countjohn on Apr 2, 2024 1:44:35 GMT
Neither of them are my thing but Beyonce has the better voice, is a better performer, and at least makes somewhat compelling music. Swift's music is the musical equivalent of Olive Garden, nothing particularly wrong with it but nothing right about it either and just bland and boring as hell. Regardless, Pac is right and you should all be listening to Patti Smith instead. They're probably the two most overrated living musical acts. Beyonce's early career is better than Swift's, but her solo career has been a mess IMO after her debut, no matter how many Grammys she wins. Swift just doesn't have the discography to warrant her fame; I like maybe 5 songs she's made. At least Drake before the last few years had actual hit songs you'd hear in public, seemingly on a monthly basis. His popularity felt organic. All I hear in public is Swift, what are you on about?!? That was just a weird take, I can name at least a dozen Swift songs off the top of my head and I don't even deliberately try to listen to her music. Only Drake song I've ever heard is Hotline Bling.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Apr 2, 2024 14:45:21 GMT
As someone who loves both, this comparison doesn't make sense to me because they are different artists. They didn't start at the same time. People are only comparing them because they're two female artists who had blockbuster tours last year
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Apr 2, 2024 14:47:05 GMT
They're probably the two most overrated living musical acts. Beyonce's early career is better than Swift's, but her solo career has been a mess IMO after her debut, no matter how many Grammys she wins. Swift just doesn't have the discography to warrant her fame; I like maybe 5 songs she's made. At least Drake before the last few years had actual hit songs you'd hear in public, seemingly on a monthly basis. His popularity felt organic. Taylor has spent like 360 days at #1 daily on Spotify daily streams. I hear her on the radio all the time.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Apr 3, 2024 2:51:26 GMT
Saying Taylor Swift doesnt have the discography sounds like a hermit take to me.
One of the main aspects of her is because if you ask a Taylor Swift fan what her favorite song is. Well its damn where do I start? Theres so many.
Thats unless you only like or remember Love Story, You Belong with Me, Shake It Off, We Are Never Getting Back Together, Mine, 22, You Need to Calm Down, Blank Space, Karma, and Cruel Summer....which is ya know most non listeners, but only one of those is great.
That is absolutely not how a Taylor Swift fan sees things, but for some reason the Swifties here have not felt the need to drop a reply yet. Why? Ehhh I dunno. On lunch break I guess.
And no, most of her fans absolutely DO NOT still see her thru the prism of the girl on the bleachers while her alter ego is a cheer captain. Another ultimate sign of hermitism part 2.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Apr 3, 2024 3:15:11 GMT
I find Beyoncé a bit overrated as an artist (in so far as I don't think she's the second coming), but I think she has made some fantastic pop music and both Lemonade and Renaissance are outright great albums. Can't really knock her ability as a performer at all, just a top notch talent.
Swift I just don't really care for much at all. She has one great song imo ("Blank Space," the only song of hers that actually cuts) and some perfectly fine little pop numbers ("Love Story," "You Belong With Me," "Style") but I can't really get behind an artist that just feels so... stunted? I get there's the whole idea that celebrities are emotionally stuck at whatever age they become famous and she started young, but it's hard to take seriously someone (and their fans) who still acts like they're on the bleachers when all of society has validated them as cheer captain for 15 years.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Apr 3, 2024 15:37:12 GMT
I find Beyoncé a bit overrated as an artist (in so far as I don't think she's the second coming), but I think she has made some fantastic pop music and both Lemonade and Renaissance are outright great albums. Can't really knock her ability as a performer at all, just a top notch talent. Swift I just don't really care for much at all. She has one great song imo ("Blank Space," the only song of hers that actually cuts) and some perfectly fine little pop numbers ("Love Story," "You Belong With Me," "Style") but I can't really get behind an artist that just feels so... stunted? I get there's the whole idea that celebrities are emotionally stuck at whatever age they become famous and she started young, but it's hard to take seriously someone (and their fans) who still acts like they're on the bleachers when all of society has validated them as cheer captain for 15 years. Have you listened to her entire catalogue though? I don't see how you can say she's emotionally stunted especially after listening to Folklore, Evermore, and Midnights. You of course don't have to like her music at all and can think it's bad, cringe, untalented, etc. but so much of the criticism she gets is just off base. Saying that she's emotionally stunted is just not backed up by evidence
You're not the first person to say that. I've seen the discourse online, and it's obvious to me that a lot if it stems from the fact that she doesn't perform for the male gaze, the biggest being she's not overtly sexual. I'm not saying that's the case for you specifically. I'm just speaking in general about people who say she's emotionally stunted. They're also people who haven't listened to her discography with an open mind. People still see her as a vapid teenager bc she's a pretty blonde who's bubbly, unmarried with no kids, and isn't publicly sexual. That's not on her. That's on society that still perceives her kind of femininity as immature and stunted. We all know teenage girls are routinely dismissed as being vapid and shallow. Their interests and feelings are irrational and frivolous. Also, just because one is validated by society doesn't change the person's own insecurities. Being privileged and successful doesn't make her immune from being insecure and having her own issues. That's not how being a human works. For the last year and a half, I’ve seen nothing but endless thinkpieces (some of them being viciously misogynistic) and comments against her including from a good chunk of her own fans. It's still seen as uncool to like her. If you like Taylor Swift, you're "basic". People still think her fanbase is made up of entirely "basic yt women" (the whole concept of "basic" is really just putting down women for liking something popular or common) when that's just factually incorrect. She's not the girl on the bleachers, but she's not exactly a cheer captain in a lot of people's eyes despite being insanely successful. She just looks like a cheer caption bc she's a pretty blonde with a model body
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Apr 3, 2024 15:48:06 GMT
Saying Taylor Swift doesnt have the discography sounds like a hermit take to me. One of the main aspects of her is because if you ask a Taylor Swift fan what her favorite song is. Well its damn where do I start? Theres so many. Thats unless you only like or remember Love Story, You Belong with Me, Shake It Off, We Are Never Getting Back Together, Mine, 22, You Need to Calm Down, Blank Space, Karma, and Cruel Summer....which is ya know most non listeners, but only one of those is great. That is absolutely not how a Taylor Swift fan sees things, but for some reason the Swifties here have not felt the need to drop a reply yet. Why? Ehhh I dunno. On lunch break I guess. And no, most of her fans absolutely DO NOT still see her thru the prism of the girl on the bleachers while her alter ego is a cheer captain. Another ultimate sign of hermitism part 2. It's honestly crazy how someone as relatively inoffensive as her has become polarizing, at least online anyway. I mean outside this forum. I think so far the forum has kept criticism of her respectful. But yeah, the hate she gets is from people who've never listened to her music and always see her in the worst light possible because they just have an irrational hatred for her. I've seen so many viral posts saying that all her music sounds the same which is an outright lie. The other big one is "She still writes breakup songs"...she had two albums and multiple songs about her six year relationship with her ex-bf. Her two pandemic albums were mostly fictional
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Apr 3, 2024 16:38:53 GMT
Barbie - What really irked me recently (and what I think speaks to mikediastavrone96 's point) was when she used her Time Person of the Year profile to... rehash the mess with Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. It's like... you're the most successful musician since, like, Elvis... girl, you won. You really want to use that platform to talk about that?
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Apr 3, 2024 16:38:59 GMT
Swift's music is more evergreen IMO. I've loved Bey before and probably will again but I don't come back to her stuff the way I come back to Taylor's classics and deep cuts.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Apr 3, 2024 17:07:15 GMT
I find Beyoncé a bit overrated as an artist (in so far as I don't think she's the second coming), but I think she has made some fantastic pop music and both Lemonade and Renaissance are outright great albums. Can't really knock her ability as a performer at all, just a top notch talent. Swift I just don't really care for much at all. She has one great song imo ("Blank Space," the only song of hers that actually cuts) and some perfectly fine little pop numbers ("Love Story," "You Belong With Me," "Style") but I can't really get behind an artist that just feels so... stunted? I get there's the whole idea that celebrities are emotionally stuck at whatever age they become famous and she started young, but it's hard to take seriously someone (and their fans) who still acts like they're on the bleachers when all of society has validated them as cheer captain for 15 years. Have you listened to her entire catalogue though? I don't see how you can say she's emotionally stunted especially after listening to Folklore, Evermore, and Midnights. You of course don't have to like her music at all and can think it's bad, cringe, untalented, etc. but so much of the criticism she gets is just off base. Saying that she's emotionally stunted is just not backed up by evidence
You're not the first person to say that. I've seen the discourse online, and it's obvious to me that a lot if it stems from the fact that she doesn't perform for the male gaze, the biggest being she's not overtly sexual. I'm not saying that's the case for you specifically. I'm just speaking in general about people who say she's emotionally stunted. They're also people who haven't listened to her discography with an open mind. People still see her as a vapid teenager bc she's a pretty blonde who's bubbly, unmarried with no kids, and isn't publicly sexual. That's not on her. That's on society that still perceives her kind of femininity as immature and stunted. We all know teenage girls are routinely dismissed as being vapid and shallow. Their interests and feelings are irrational and frivolous. Also, just because one is validated by society doesn't change the person's own insecurities. Being privileged and successful doesn't make her immune from being insecure and having her own issues. That's not how being a human works. For the last year and a half, I’ve seen nothing but endless thinkpieces (some of them being viciously misogynistic) and comments against her including from a good chunk of her own fans. It's still seen as uncool to like her. If you like Taylor Swift, you're "basic". People still think her fanbase is made up of entirely "basic yt women" (the whole concept of "basic" is really just putting down women for liking something popular or common) when that's just factually incorrect. She's not the girl on the bleachers, but she's not exactly a cheer captain in a lot of people's eyes despite being insanely successful. She just looks like a cheer caption bc she's a pretty blonde with a model body I'm not gonna lie, I'm not going to listen to the entire catalogue of an artist I don't care for. I've heard songs from her recent albums out of sheer exposure and knowing multiple Swifties in my life, and they've yet to move me. What range or emotional depth she may have exhibited has not captured me. I do imagine some of the criticism directed towards her is often sexist or veiled shots at her fans (not unlike when Twilight or even further back Titanic would be mocked on the internet for their teen female bases), but I also still think that criticism is overwhelmed by the majority praise. It's like the MCU 5 years back - sure there was criticism, but it's drowned out by being the most culturally omnipresent force in its medium. And Swift goes beyond even that in terms of validation - the MCU didn't win BP 3 times and nobody was calling for Feige to win Person of the Year. She's at a Beatles/Michael Jackson level at this point and while online criticism is its own monster I'd also say official channels have become a lot more lax than they used to be (music journalism in general has become so access-based that it's all softball; Beyoncé and other pop stars benefit from it too). If she isn't cheer captain, then I guess the position doesn't exist. This isn't all to say she isn't entitled to her own insecurities. Sure she is, and there's validity if the criticism that is present still gets to her since her fame does come with a larger microscope. But that does not inherently make me inclined to like her music exploring those insecurities since, well, I don't like them. There is some universality she has touched upon among her fans and as a form of wish fulfillment I can respect that she fits the role as that idol, but it doesn't capture my interest in the way in which it's explored. I prefer artists who have a bit more bite to them, a bit more jagged edges, it's why as far as pop idols these days go I'd rather listen to Lana del Rey or hell the Swiftie disciple Olivia Rodrigo who herself isn't exploring emotionally deep material but I'd say is better at exploring messier modes of those emotions.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Apr 3, 2024 17:10:37 GMT
Barbie - What really irked me recently (and what I think speaks to mikediastavrone96 's point) was when she used her Time Person of the Year profile to... rehash the mess with Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. It's like... you're the most successful musician since, like, Elvis... girl, you won. You really want to use that platform to talk about that? This I definitely agree with you. If that was also Mike's point, I agree.
Since 2018, it keeps getting brought up even as part of the article narrative without her comments, and I'm tired of it. Worse is how Swifties act like she was assaulted or something? Idk something about how they treat 2016 rubs me the wrong way.
In fairness to her, that interview did give more information as to why she's still hung up on it. She said after the VMAs thing in 2009, music executives were trying to replace her and so she had to get ahead of them. I think 2016 resulting in a huge backlash against her was like a final blow to the years of putting up with casual misogyny about her music and persona. I think she had an emotional breakdown (her cringe PR stunts with Tom Hiddleston always struck me as her version of a breakdown). She put so much work into constantly having something different in every era, and I think she genuinely thought her career was over beyond repair. One thing about her is she's insanely passionately in love with making music. Like "I will DIE if I can't do it anymore" type passion so I can understand her why it was painful.
BUT the fact that she came back by selling 1 million PURE copies and went on to have a sold out stadium tour (at the same time Kanye started destroying his career) should've put all this to rest. There's no need to still talk about it
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Post by urbanpatrician on Apr 3, 2024 17:25:46 GMT
This board is the ultimate Leonardo DiCaprio and Emma Stone worshipping platform.
I've never met an Emma Stone fan irl.
I know Leo fans but not like the extremists here.
If someone here were to bash Leo for Titanic and gangs of new York (his early days) theyll be accused of being a hermit I'm guessing.
The Emma Stone fans here have forgotten Superbad, Easy A, The help, and Zombieland. Significant points of her career in my opinion but no longer on any person's minds here. I'm guessing they wont be happy if someone were to see Emma Stone thru those 4 movies.
If you dont wanna listen to TayTay that's fine your choice. I'm gonna say I dont wanna watch Poor Things. Not many normal people care about Poor Things in reality anyways and if they do its mostly because it's still recent.
Most Del Rey heads ARE Swifties, btw
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 3, 2024 17:32:10 GMT
It's amazing to me that this oll never happened before tbh....when I made this poll I was like "Wtf - did we have one and it got deleted?"
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Post by urbanpatrician on Apr 3, 2024 17:36:21 GMT
It's amazing to me that this oll never happened before tbh....when I made this poll I was like "Wtf - did we have one and it got deleted?" Honestly I didn't care. Barbie ignited my engine. I was gonna stay out of this thread at first, changed my mind, decided to drop one post and be done with it. But I got pulled back in thanks Barbie
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Apr 3, 2024 17:38:05 GMT
This board is the ultimate Leonardo DiCaprio and Emma Stone worshipping platform. I've never met an Emma Stone fan irl. I know Leo fans but not like the extremists here. If someone here were to bash Leo for Titanic and gangs of new York (his early days) theyll be accused of being a hermit I'm guessing. The Emma Stone fans here have forgotten Superbad, Easy A, The help, and Zombieland. Significant points of her career in my opinion but no longer on any person's minds here. I'm guessing they wont be happy if someone were to see Emma Stone thru those 4 movies. If you dont wanna listen to TayTay that's fine your choice. I'm gonna say I dont wanna watch Poor Things. Not many normal people care about Poor Things in reality anyways and if they do its mostly because it's still recent. You good, man? I don't seek out Swift, no. I hear her music plenty enough from just being in the world and being friends with multiple Swifties. My bad that I don't wanna hear all of Midnights after not caring for any of the singles or "Labyrinth." Would you like me to say that I thought "Cardigan" was okay years back? Don't know what Emma Stone (one of Swift's friends btw) has to do with anything here, but I think we've all remembered all those movies you mentioned. I quite like her in Superbad and Zombieland, think she elevates Easy A (an okay movie) off her charisma, and think she falls a bit short in The Help with a poorly written part. If you don't wanna watch Poor Things, who gives a fuck?
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Post by urbanpatrician on Apr 3, 2024 17:42:07 GMT
This board is the ultimate Leonardo DiCaprio and Emma Stone worshipping platform. I've never met an Emma Stone fan irl. I know Leo fans but not like the extremists here. If someone here were to bash Leo for Titanic and gangs of new York (his early days) theyll be accused of being a hermit I'm guessing. The Emma Stone fans here have forgotten Superbad, Easy A, The help, and Zombieland. Significant points of her career in my opinion but no longer on any person's minds here. I'm guessing they wont be happy if someone were to see Emma Stone thru those 4 movies. If you dont wanna listen to TayTay that's fine your choice. I'm gonna say I dont wanna watch Poor Things. Not many normal people care about Poor Things in reality anyways and if they do its mostly because it's still recent. You good, man? I don't seek out Swift, no. I hear her music plenty enough from just being in the world and being friends with multiple Swifties. My bad that I don't wanna hear all of Midnights after not caring for any of the singles or "Labyrinth." Would you like me to say that I thought "Cardigan" was okay years back? Don't know what Emma Stone (one of Swift's friends btw) has to do with anything here, but I think we've all remembered all those movies you mentioned. I quite like her in Superbad and Zombieland, think she elevates Easy A (an okay movie) off her charisma, and think she falls a bit short in The Help with a poorly written part. If you don't wanna watch Poor Things, who gives a fuck? Hey man we're cool. I see you around here a lot. You seem like an ok guy. I'm not talking about you in particular tho it may sound that way. I apologize for sounding a bit excited. I didnt really mean it that way. I really dont care honestly one way or the other. I can never fully stay out of TayTay threads tho. Peace bro
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Apr 3, 2024 17:51:32 GMT
I do imagine some of the criticism directed towards her is often sexist or veiled shots at her fans (not unlike when Twilight or even further back Titanic would be mocked on the internet for their teen female bases), but I also still think that criticism is overwhelmed by the majority praise. It's like the MCU 5 years back - sure there was criticism, but it's drowned out by being the most culturally omnipresent force in its medium. And Swift goes beyond even that in terms of validation - the MCU didn't win BP 3 times and nobody was calling for Feige to win Person of the Year. She's at a Beatles/Michael Jackson level at this point and while online criticism is its own monster I'd also say official channels have become a lot more lax than they used to be (music journalism in general has become so access-based that it's all softball; Beyoncé and other pop stars benefit from it too). If she isn't cheer captain, then I guess the position doesn't exist.This isn't all to say she isn't entitled to her own insecurities. Sure she is, and there's validity if the criticism that is present still gets to her since her fame does come with a larger microscope. But that does not inherently make me inclined to like her music exploring those insecurities since, well, I don't like them. There is some universality she has touched upon among her fans and as a form of wish fulfillment I can respect that she fits the role as that idol, but it doesn't capture my interest in the way in which it's explored. I prefer artists who have a bit more bite to them, a bit more jagged edges, it's why as far as pop idols these days go I'd rather listen to Lana del Rey or hell the Swiftie disciple Olivia Rodrigo who herself isn't exploring emotionally deep material but I'd say is better at exploring messier modes of those emotions.
I fully agree with you on this. I noticed that as well over the years. The fact that Beyonce barely does interviews anymore and when she does, it's fawning is irksome even though I love her. Both these women are extremely powerful and lax interviews allows them to escape accountability. In the Time Magazine POTY profile, the writer was like "Who am I to point out that she wasn't really cancelled? What matters is that she felt cancelled" Well it's your job as a journalist to challenge what powerful people say...
This is totally fair. And I like both those artists as well
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Post by countjohn on Apr 3, 2024 18:38:18 GMT
It's like... you're the most successful musician since, like, Elvis... Errr, that's gonna be a no for me. She's definitely not as big as the big classic rock bands (Beatles, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd exc) or the 80's pop stars like MJ and Madonna. Nobody can get as big as they were anymore with how fragmented the culture is.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Apr 3, 2024 19:18:58 GMT
It's like... you're the most successful musician since, like, Elvis... Errr, that's gonna be a no for me. She's definitely not as big as the big classic rock bands (Beatles, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd exc) or the 80's pop stars like MJ and Madonna. Nobody can get as big as they were anymore with how fragmented the culture is. I agree for the most part though I think her popularity rivals The Beatles (the crowds outside the stadiums at her tour stops are in the thousands). However, no one is ever touching MJ or Elvis especially MJ. Phoebe Bridgers said in an interview Taylor is like MJ, and that was a such a set-up to get Taylor dragged
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Post by countjohn on Apr 4, 2024 22:40:03 GMT
Errr, that's gonna be a no for me. She's definitely not as big as the big classic rock bands (Beatles, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd exc) or the 80's pop stars like MJ and Madonna. Nobody can get as big as they were anymore with how fragmented the culture is. I agree for the most part though I think her popularity rivals The Beatles (the crowds outside the stadiums at her tour stops are in the thousands). However, no one is ever touching MJ or Elvis especially MJ. Phoebe Bridgers said in an interview Taylor is like MJ, and that was a such a set-up to get Taylor dragged Maybe the early Beatlemania Beatles but later studio era Beatles moved albums like no one else except MJ. Nobody's got a big enough fanbase now to sell 20-30 million albums on one release, let alone three in a row with Pepper, White Album, and Abbey Road.
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