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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 21, 2024 3:54:55 GMT
I think Dunst wins even tho ScarJo is gonna go down in history as a pretty big name.
Main reason is because Dunst was already established in American pop culture before 2003.
She was nominated for a Globe as a child actress breakthru in Interview of a Vampire, starred in the teen cheerleading film Bring it On that early 00s kids jammed to, was in a Savage Garden music video (overplayed in 2000), was hyped up for her first nude scene in Crazy/Beautiful that ended up being cut, and topped it off by getting the main early 00s blockbuster role with Spider Man. This was all before ScarJo broke thru.
ScarJo has Lost in Translation and MCU and maybe had the bigger 2010s but Dunst has the advantage of being the far greater teen/child star and has that prong of fans around where ScarJo had her career change in 2003.
I just don't think Her is a movie that's discussed much anymore (this board for instance doesnt talk about it). Under the Skin probably always will be the movie that a specific tangent of people care about, but I dont think itll ever be seen by enough people to elevate to first degree classic status. Ghost World is in my mind a Buscemi and Thora Birch firstly. I forget she was even in The Prestige.
I think Dunst has just had more memorable roles. The Power of the Dog is a critics hit, Fargo is anthology series, and Melancholia while not talked about much anymore gained her lots of European awards and press. Marie Antoinette maybe wont be thought of as a first degree classic but it's probably the most seen movie about the French Revolution (Gances Napoleon and Depardieus Danton are way underseen). I think Scott's version will fade away. Lastly, I think The Virgin Suicides is one of the first movies to come up if you were to search for keyword "depressing teen movies" on Google. Like in the prong of Buffalo '66, Elephant, Gummo, etc.
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Post by futuretrunks on Mar 21, 2024 4:33:17 GMT
Way too hard to tell.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Mar 21, 2024 4:39:32 GMT
I'm not following the logic here. Johansson has been the bigger star for about 15 years now but Dunst will have a greater legend because she was a child star who was in a Savage Garden video and had a nude scene cut?
I think credit for credit that Johansson has more chances of lasting in the public consciousness. While Dunst has her own superhero franchise it's only 3 films (only 2 of which are widely liked) and she's not exactly one of the most praised aspects; meanwhile Johansson was the premiere female character for the landmark franchise for a generation. As far as critical appeal, Dunst has her Coppola collaborations, Melancholia, and The Power of the Dog but Johansson is doing just fine with the more beloved Coppola collab in Lost in Translation along with Under the Skin, Her (a movie that we don't talk about, sure, but if IMDB's popularity meter is anything to go by it's still way more popular than Power of the Dog), and her Oscar nods with Jojo Rabbit (a movie that normies love for some reason) and Marriage Story (a movie that's still memed). This is all not even to mention that Johansson as a celebrity just looms larger; she's the biggest movie sex symbol of her time.
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Post by futuretrunks on Mar 21, 2024 4:48:05 GMT
I'm not following the logic here. Johansson has been the bigger star for about 15 years now but Dunst will have a greater legend because she was a child star who was in a Savage Garden video and had a nude scene cut? I think credit for credit that Johansson has more chances of lasting in the public consciousness. While Dunst has her own superhero franchise it's only 3 films (only 2 of which are widely liked) and she's not exactly one of the most praised aspects; meanwhile Johansson was the premiere female character for the landmark franchise for a generation. As far as critical appeal, Dunst has her Coppola collaborations, Melancholia, and The Power of the Dog but Johansson is doing just fine with the more beloved Coppola collab in Lost in Translation along with Under the Skin, Her (a movie that we don't talk about, sure, but if IMDB's popularity meter is anything to go by it's still way more popular than Power of the Dog), and her Oscar nods with Jojo Rabbit (a movie that normies love for some reason) and Marriage Story (a movie that's still memed). This is all not even to mention that Johansson as a celebrity just looms larger; she's the biggest movie sex symbol of her time. You need to see Dunst's show on Showtime. And I say that as someone who thinks Johannson is sensational in Woody Allen's Scoop (yes, Match Point is a way better movie, but Scoop has Scarlett actually acting). |
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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 21, 2024 6:22:53 GMT
I'm not following the logic here. Johansson has been the bigger star for about 15 years now but Dunst will have a greater legend because she was a child star who was in a Savage Garden video and had a nude scene cut? I think credit for credit that Johansson has more chances of lasting in the public consciousness. While Dunst has her own superhero franchise it's only 3 films (only 2 of which are widely liked) and she's not exactly one of the most praised aspects; meanwhile Johansson was the premiere female character for the landmark franchise for a generation. As far as critical appeal, Dunst has her Coppola collaborations, Melancholia, and The Power of the Dog but Johansson is doing just fine with the more beloved Coppola collab in Lost in Translation along with Under the Skin, Her (a movie that we don't talk about, sure, but if IMDB's popularity meter is anything to go by it's still way more popular than Power of the Dog), and her Oscar nods with Jojo Rabbit (a movie that normies love for some reason) and Marriage Story (a movie that's still memed). This is all not even to mention that Johansson as a celebrity just looms larger; she's the biggest movie sex symbol of her time. What I meant with the nude scene cut and Savage Garden video is just that Dunst was making headlines well before Johansson even came around. So she has about a 9 year head start on ScarJo. Now if you were alive in '03 (I'm guessing you werent)...ScarJo before 03 was about like Amy Adams before Junebug. Nobody mentioned her or spoke of her. Now i personally loved her in Home Alone 3 when i saw it in 97 but I'm not gonna pretend anyone shared my opinion. A 9 year head start is no small business. I think Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story will fade away in 7/8 years so I dont consider those significant. I cant see any major Dunst movie fading away. The sole exception maybe The Power of the Dog but I think the fact that it was at one point possibly a Best Picture winner before it became obvious Coda was winning makes it a much more seen movie than Under the Skin - a drastically underseen movie by anyone outside of IMDB. And if Scarlett being a sex icon gives her status then I think Dunst's child star/teen star period easily trounces that. You sound like a ScarJo guy and that's fine. We're splitting hairs here, but I think Dunst is gonna be more legendary based on more movies in the long run standing the test of time. |
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Mar 21, 2024 12:56:54 GMT
I'm not following the logic here. Johansson has been the bigger star for about 15 years now but Dunst will have a greater legend because she was a child star who was in a Savage Garden video and had a nude scene cut? I think credit for credit that Johansson has more chances of lasting in the public consciousness. While Dunst has her own superhero franchise it's only 3 films (only 2 of which are widely liked) and she's not exactly one of the most praised aspects; meanwhile Johansson was the premiere female character for the landmark franchise for a generation. As far as critical appeal, Dunst has her Coppola collaborations, Melancholia, and The Power of the Dog but Johansson is doing just fine with the more beloved Coppola collab in Lost in Translation along with Under the Skin, Her (a movie that we don't talk about, sure, but if IMDB's popularity meter is anything to go by it's still way more popular than Power of the Dog), and her Oscar nods with Jojo Rabbit (a movie that normies love for some reason) and Marriage Story (a movie that's still memed). This is all not even to mention that Johansson as a celebrity just looms larger; she's the biggest movie sex symbol of her time. What I meant with the nude scene cut and Savage Garden video is just that Dunst was making headlines well before Johansson even came around. So she has about a 9 year head start on ScarJo. Now if you were alive in '03 (I'm guessing you werent)...ScarJo before 03 was about like Amy Adams before Junebug. Nobody mentioned her or spoke of her. Now i personally loved her in Home Alone 3 when i saw it in 97 but I'm not gonna pretend anyone shared my opinion. A 9 year head start is no small business. I think Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story will fade away in 7/8 years so I dont consider those significant. I cant see any major Dunst movie fading away. The sole exception maybe The Power of the Dog but I think the fact that it was at one point possibly a Best Picture winner before it became obvious Coda was winning makes it a much more seen movie than Under the Skin - a drastically underseen movie by anyone outside of IMDB. And if Scarlett being a sex icon gives her status then I think Dunst's child star/teen star period easily trounces that. You sound like a ScarJo guy and that's fine. We're splitting hairs here, but I think Dunst is gonna be more legendary based on more movies in the long run standing the test of time. I was alive in 2003. I know Dunst was a thing before Johansson. I just don't think that 9 year period of Dunst being famous eclipses Johansson being significantly bigger as a star and being in more relevant films since Spider-Man 3 came out. I pointed out the cut nude scene and Savage Garden video because to me those are things that are virtually irrelevant to Dunst's career at this point. You've mentioned multiple times being particularly dialed in to culture between I think 1997-2003 so sure that may still stick in your mind, but at least in America Savage Garden hasn't mattered for over 20 years now (maybe they still do in Australia, idk) so I don't really think it'll do much for Dunst's legacy. I think some of those things from her child/teen star fame have already faded to the same or beyond whatever degree you may think Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story will. |
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Mar 21, 2024 13:21:58 GMT
yeah the reasoning is making me a bit confused haha
her isn’t talked about anymore and under the skin is under seen, but power of the dog gets a pass because it was a critics darling (just like under the skin and especially her, which might have even got the best notices out of the 3). power of the dog is less talked about than her too even though it came out like 10 years later. under the skin also gave SJ a lot of award noms and press.
you could make the same same argument for power of the dog as you did with ghost world (that it’s more of a cumberbatch vehicle)
then there’s also marriage story and lucy (which was a pretty big box office hit)
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Post by mhynson27 on Mar 21, 2024 13:38:22 GMT
What I meant with the nude scene cut and Savage Garden video is just that Dunst was making headlines well before Johansson even came around. So she has about a 9 year head start on ScarJo. Now if you were alive in '03 (I'm guessing you werent)...ScarJo before 03 was about like Amy Adams before Junebug. Nobody mentioned her or spoke of her. Now i personally loved her in Home Alone 3 when i saw it in 97 but I'm not gonna pretend anyone shared my opinion. A 9 year head start is no small business. I think Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story will fade away in 7/8 years so I dont consider those significant. I cant see any major Dunst movie fading away. The sole exception maybe The Power of the Dog but I think the fact that it was at one point possibly a Best Picture winner before it became obvious Coda was winning makes it a much more seen movie than Under the Skin - a drastically underseen movie by anyone outside of IMDB. And if Scarlett being a sex icon gives her status then I think Dunst's child star/teen star period easily trounces that. You sound like a ScarJo guy and that's fine. We're splitting hairs here, but I think Dunst is gonna be more legendary based on more movies in the long run standing the test of time. I was alive in 2003. I know Dunst was a thing before Johansson. I just don't think that 9 year period of Dunst being famous eclipses Johansson being significantly bigger as a star and being in more relevant films since Spider-Man 3 came out. I pointed out the cut nude scene and Savage Garden video because to me those are things that are virtually irrelevant to Dunst's career at this point. You've mentioned multiple times being particularly dialed in to culture between I think 1997-2003 so sure that may still stick in your mind, but at least in America Savage Garden hasn't mattered for over 20 years now ( maybe they still do in Australia, idk) so I don't really think it'll do much for Dunst's legacy. I think some of those things from her child/teen star fame have already faded to the same or beyond whatever degree you may think Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story will. Not particularly |
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Post by Nikan on Mar 21, 2024 14:52:21 GMT
ScarJo - remember when she said she doesn't like to be called that? remember the last time we cared for what a woman wants? - who I don't think is a more talented (or as watchable) actress... Still like her though, to the amount that I'll overlook her Marvel phase.
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Post by paulgallo on Mar 21, 2024 15:10:13 GMT
Not that music videos even matter but if they did I'd wager that Justin Timberlake trumps Savage Garden... One is arguably the biggest female movie star of the last decade, the other never came close to that and isn't even A-list anymore so her best shot is getting supporting roles that are so "memorable" they even lose polls against Emily Blunt's forgettable role in Oppenheimer Link |
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Post by Nikan on Mar 21, 2024 15:23:49 GMT
One is arguably the biggest female movie star of the last decade, the other never came close to that and isn't even A-list anymore so her best shot is getting supporting roles that are so "memorable" they even lose polls against Emily Blunt's forgettable role in Oppenheimer LinkI didn't go crazy over her or anything but is Blunt really that forgettable in Oppie?  I mean she's definitely underwritten but makes the most out of her latter scenes. |
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Post by paulgallo on Mar 21, 2024 15:36:43 GMT
One is arguably the biggest female movie star of the last decade, the other never came close to that and isn't even A-list anymore so her best shot is getting supporting roles that are so "memorable" they even lose polls against Emily Blunt's forgettable role in Oppenheimer LinkI didn't go crazy over her or anything but is Blunt really that forgettable in Oppie? I mean she's definitely underwritten but makes the most out of her latter scenes. Still wouldn't call it memorable but it's definitely not her fault, on that I agree. |
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Post by countjohn on Mar 21, 2024 19:38:46 GMT
I'm not sure either one of them is "legendary" but Black Widow alone puts Scarlett ahead and as far as prestige films Lost in Translation, Her, Marriage Story, Jojo Rabbit, and Prestige are all a bigger deal than any of the ones Dunst has done outside of maybe Virgin Suicides. Nobody can tell you anything about Power of the Dog anymore and it came out a few years ago.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 21, 2024 23:15:01 GMT
What I meant with the nude scene cut and Savage Garden video is just that Dunst was making headlines well before Johansson even came around. So she has about a 9 year head start on ScarJo. Now if you were alive in '03 (I'm guessing you werent)...ScarJo before 03 was about like Amy Adams before Junebug. Nobody mentioned her or spoke of her. Now i personally loved her in Home Alone 3 when i saw it in 97 but I'm not gonna pretend anyone shared my opinion. A 9 year head start is no small business. I think Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story will fade away in 7/8 years so I dont consider those significant. I cant see any major Dunst movie fading away. The sole exception maybe The Power of the Dog but I think the fact that it was at one point possibly a Best Picture winner before it became obvious Coda was winning makes it a much more seen movie than Under the Skin - a drastically underseen movie by anyone outside of IMDB. And if Scarlett being a sex icon gives her status then I think Dunst's child star/teen star period easily trounces that. You sound like a ScarJo guy and that's fine. We're splitting hairs here, but I think Dunst is gonna be more legendary based on more movies in the long run standing the test of time. I was alive in 2003. I know Dunst was a thing before Johansson. I just don't think that 9 year period of Dunst being famous eclipses Johansson being significantly bigger as a star and being in more relevant films since Spider-Man 3 came out. I pointed out the cut nude scene and Savage Garden video because to me those are things that are virtually irrelevant to Dunst's career at this point. You've mentioned multiple times being particularly dialed in to culture between I think 1997-2003 so sure that may still stick in your mind, but at least in America Savage Garden hasn't mattered for over 20 years now (maybe they still do in Australia, idk) so I don't really think it'll do much for Dunst's legacy. I think some of those things from her child/teen star fame have already faded to the same or beyond whatever degree you may think Jojo Rabbit and Marriage Story will. Well...Savage Garden has definitely faded. I included them but I was just going down the list of Dunst items...didnt think anyone would nitpick every item I included. If Savage Garden has faded so has every Scarlett movie in the 00s except Lost in Translation. Dunst has a 7-1 edge of more relevant movies in the 90s and 00s. As for the 10s go, Scarlett has MCU which elevates her but Dunst didnt go anywhere. Shes always lurking in the peripheral with Fargo and Melancholia. And if you think The Power of the Dog and On Becoming...will fade then I think JoJo and Marriage Story have even less staying power. The Power of the Dog is at least in the top echelon of acclaimed films of the decade....the other 2 is merely recent and currently fresher on people's minds but they dont have any stand out facets to them to last them much longer than a few more years. Her already feels like it's on the downward trajectory. And Under the Skin I already said is extremely underseen. So all in all not sure you cant argue Dunst has double the classics. I think 2020s will separate the two. SCARjo is working more and shes more recently fresh, so she does have that working for her. We can revisit this in 5 years and see where the world is at then, but I'm just seeing collective recency bias here and just evaluation of who's 'currently' more relevant. I have way more DVDs of Dunst than Scarlett. I'm not sure why people seemed to have forgotten what Dunst did from 1994-2007 where if I remember correctly, a 14 year span of being dominant in the mainstream. Doesnt seem insignificant to me, or people just wanna quickly forget, but put me down as someone choosing not to forget a huge 14 year span. It's up to them what they choose to have more fresh on their minds but all I'm saying is Dunst's 18 year stretch from '94-'11 destroys Scarlett who had basically Lost in Translation thats relevant in the same period as a Dunst renaissance. Now ScarJo after the Avengers have definitely overtaken most people, but I still think Dunst slaying for 18 years from '94-'11 overtakes Scarjo slaying from '12-'24 which if my math is right...the former has been longer. |
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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 21, 2024 23:27:37 GMT
yeah the reasoning is making me a bit confused haha You could make the same same argument for power of the dog as you did with ghost world (that it’s more of a cumberbatch vehicle) then there’s also marriage story and lucy (which was a pretty big box office hit) Not really. She was nominated for The Power of the Dog. No Ghost World nomination. Big difference to me. And I think Power of the Dog is more talked about than Her. Based on critics circles and the comparison of previous movies of the Western genre. Her is just a meme movie at this point, and we can definitely argue what movie among Power of the Dog or Her is better reviewed. Seems equal to me. |
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