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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 14, 2024 22:44:48 GMT
This post is inspired, at least in part, by pacinoyes ' thread on American Shakespearean actors and my response to stephen in the thread discussing Dune: Part Two - i.e. that I found Christopher Walken an incredibly odd fit for the Dune universe due to his modernity and hyper-Americanness. So, who are some American actors that you find completely believable across nationalities and across eras of time? Let's discuss!  I'll start with two luminous beauties who are so incredibly natural in these kinds of roles: Julianne Moore and Michelle Pfeiffer. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 14, 2024 23:04:53 GMT
Predictable answer for me, but Denzel Washington manages to be believable in any period setting, across nationalities. Which is why I have high expectations of him in Gladiator 2.
The Tragedy Of Macbeth
Much Ado About Nothing
Fences
Glory
Devil In A Blue Dress
Cry Freedom
American Gangster
I feel like Leonardo DiCaprio tends to work fairly well across period settings ( except for Gangs Of New York, but maybe Daniel Day-Lewis performance made him look worse than he actually was)
The Man In The Iron Mask
Django Unchained
The Aviator
Titanic
The Killers Of The Flower Moon
Gwyneth Paltrow
Shakespeare In Love
Emma
Sylvia
Jefferson In Paris
The Talented Mr Ripley
Matt Damon
The Last Duel
True Grit
Oppenheimer
The Talented Mr Ripley
The Great Wall
The Brothers Grimm
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 14, 2024 23:23:57 GMT
I always thought Christopher Walken worked pretty well across most period settings. He's "odd" enough that he feels like he can be credible in any era. Whether it's Sleepy Hollow or The Affair Of The Necklace or the TV mini-series Julius Caesar, Sarah Plain And Tall or Heaven's Gate.
Meryl Streep and Glenn Close are fairly obvious picks as well.
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 14, 2024 23:30:05 GMT
I always thought Christopher Walken worked pretty well across most period settings. He's "odd" enough that he feels like he can be credible in any era. Whether it's Sleepy Hollow or The Affair Of The Necklace or the TV mini-series Julius Caesar, Sarah Plain And Tall or Heaven's Gate.Meryl Streep and Glenn Close are fairly obvious picks as well. I have no memory of Walken in the other films you mentioned, but I quite like him in both Sleepy Hollow and Sarah, Plain and Tall! Good calls on those. I'm curious if others feel similarly about him in Dune? Maybe it's his incredibly distinct speech pattern? And definitely yes to your mentions of Paltrow, Streep, and Close - I know I've mentioned this elsewhere, but really my only gripe with Dangerous Liaisons is how Malkovich sticks out like a sore thumb in that period European setting.  |
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 14, 2024 23:39:02 GMT
I have a lot of issues with Johnny Depp as an actor, but he's always tended to be credible in period roles.
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 14, 2024 23:39:14 GMT
This post is inspired, at least in part, by pacinoyes ' thread on American Shakespearean actors and my response to stephen in the thread discussing Dune: Part Two - i.e. that I found Christopher Walken an incredibly odd fit for the Dune universe due to his modernity and hyper-Americanness. So, who are some American actors that you find completely believable across nationalities and across eras of time? Let's discuss! I'll start with two luminous beauties who are so incredibly natural in these kinds of roles: Julianne Moore and Michelle Pfeiffer. Well thanks pal.......hope my contribution is a worthy one  .....I'll have to give the females some thought but I say this all the time Willem Dafoe is maybe THE best film actor of the 80s US class (Hanks, Washington, Cage, Spacey, Penn - it's arguable, not the "biggest star" but the best actor.....) and Dafoe is astonishing here............he's played Christ, Van Gogh, The Lighthouse, Poor Things, Born on the Fourth of July, Platoon, Mississippi Burning, Triumph of the Spirit, Auto Focus (I LOVE this performance btw), Nightmare Alley, Nortthman, the upcoming Nosferatu .......I mean that just off the top of my head  There's a lot of reasons that you can consider him as utterly unque among American actors and that's just one of them - but it's mindblowing one that no male can touch imo....just Christ AND Van Gogh is something else for an actor that seems so contemporary on the surface.....I'm sure he has more too........but he always strucks me as immediately believable regardless of period.......... Tom & Viv....Shadow of the Vampire....it's A LOT of ones because he's so prolific............  |
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Post by stephen on Mar 14, 2024 23:40:22 GMT
I always thought Christopher Walken worked pretty well across most period settings. He's "odd" enough that he feels like he can be credible in any era. Whether it's Sleepy Hollow or The Affair Of The Necklace or the TV mini-series Julius Caesar, Sarah Plain And Tall or Heaven's Gate.Meryl Streep and Glenn Close are fairly obvious picks as well. I have no memory of Walken in the other films you mentioned, but I quite like him in both Sleepy Hollow and Sarah, Plain and Tall! Good calls on those. I'm curious if others feel similarly about him in Dune? Maybe it's his incredibly distinct speech pattern? And definitely yes to your mentions of Paltrow, Streep, and Close - I know I've mentioned this elsewhere, but really my only gripe with Dangerous Liaisons is how Malkovich sticks out like a sore thumb in that period European setting. I don't know if I think the issue with Walken is that he's playing it too American, but that he's playing such an insanely sedate role that we usually don't associate with Christopher Walken. There's very little of the magic of a Walken performance, and while he nails his big line at the end to Paul, the rest of the movie he's almost an afterthought. I think ten years ago, Walken would've had the virility to play a character like the Emperor, but here he exists only as an on-paper obstacle. |
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Post by stephen on Mar 14, 2024 23:40:58 GMT
To answer your question, I would say Willem Dafoe is the king of this. You can stick the guy anywhere in any era with any accent and he'll work.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 14, 2024 23:51:33 GMT
Dafoe is generally credible across period settings, but he didn't work for me in The Last Temptation Of Christ. He sounded too contemporary and too American. It took me out. Harvey Kietel was the same. So for the longest time after that, I didn't really think Dafoe was good casting across period stuff that wasn't specifically American ( like John Wayne). But obviously he went on to do a bunch of things that showed he was.
I thought Jim Caviezel, as an American, was a Christ that felt far more period than Dafoe. And Caviezel is a more definitive performance of Christ, even though Dafoe is obviously a greater actor.
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Post by stabcaesar on Mar 15, 2024 2:27:19 GMT
Pfeiffer and Paltrow +1
Laura Linney and Joan Allen too
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 15, 2024 14:13:00 GMT
I've been mulling this over (damn you TylerDeneuve !) an an actress that's sort of like Dafoe ^ here is Barbara Hershey who seems too modern irl - actually like a hippie chick - yet fits seamlessly into several periods and not only that but makes the periods, like Dafoe - seem contemporary and vital.....ie she seems modern but incongruosly so.......she's quite a singular actress in that way.....sort of like Dafoe......  |
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 15, 2024 17:04:59 GMT
stabcaesar - Great mentions of Allen and Linney. I do think Pfeiffer is perhaps the best at this, but do you not find Julianne Moore credible as a European woman? pacinoyes - Brilliant mention of Barbara Hershey. She is so often overlooked, so I love that you gave her a shout here. Another American woman to consider in this mould: Anjelica Huston - her elegance really lends itself well to this, right? stephen - How about F. Murray Abraham? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like Amadeus sort of broke the mould of Americans being totally believable in a period/European setting? Dangerous Liaisons would follow a few years later... Old Hollywood productions wouldn't necessarily count.
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Post by stephen on Mar 15, 2024 17:08:48 GMT
stabcaesar - Great mentions of Allen and Linney. I do think Pfeiffer is perhaps the best at this, but do you not find Julianne Moore credible as a European woman? pacinoyes - Brilliant mention of Barbara Hershey. She is so often overlooked, so I love that you gave her a shout here. Another American woman to consider in this mould: Anjelica Huston - her elegance really lends itself well to this, right? stephen - How about F. Murray Abraham? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like Amadeus sort of broke the mould of Americans being totally believable in a period/European setting? Dangerous Liaisons would follow a few years later... Old Hollywood productions wouldn't necessarily count. One of the reasons Amadeus works so perfectly is because it recognizes that it doesn't have to hew to this ridiculous notion that period pieces set in foreign lands have to adhere to either the regional accent or, worse, a general British RP variation. Forman would have deserved his Best Director Oscar for that alone. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 16, 2024 10:13:05 GMT
Annette Bening is aces in period particularly younger and portraying glamour or faded glamour - playing Gloria Grahame or evoking her for an earlier example  
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Post by stabcaesar on Mar 16, 2024 10:44:37 GMT
Actually it’s safe to say that everyone with a theatre background is convincing in European/period setting given that most plays are period.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 16, 2024 15:37:56 GMT
Jessica Lange has always been good in period, whether European ( Rob Roy) or American ( Frances).
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 17, 2024 16:08:03 GMT
Jessica Lange has always been good in period... European ( Rob Roy) Lange would actually be an example of an American actor who I think reads incredibly modern/miscast in these kinds of roles... It's truly subjective, though, as my assessment of Walken in Dune proves. |
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 17, 2024 21:36:29 GMT
This is a good interview with Stephen Frears that I know I've shared with pacinoyes before... At the 1:40 mark, he talks about his confidence in casting Michelle Pfeiffer in Chéri and why he simply could not cast an "American boy" in the titular role. This really is the crux of the thread, I think... pupdurcs |
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 17, 2024 21:59:37 GMT
This is a good interview with Stephen Frears that I know I've shared with pacinoyes before... At the 1:40 mark, he talks about his confidence in casting Michelle Pfeiffer in Chéri and why he simply could not cast an "American boy" in the titular role. This really is the crux of the thread, I think... pupdurcs may have just had a particular bias, or gave up too quickly when no suitable '"American Boys" presented themselves. But there are always well trained American actors around who can play European. Today, Timothee Chalamet or Austin Butler could probably do it. In 2009, when Cheri was made Matt Damon could have done it, but Frears are might not have been able to get him due to how big and in demand a star he was. Johnny Depp could have done it, but again, huge star, so Frears might not have been able to get him. It's a lot easier and cheaper to cast a lesser known British actor like Rupert Friend.Even if Fears went down a tier in stardom from the likes of Depp and Damon, I do think there were Americans like Billy Crudup who could have done it. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 17, 2024 22:14:52 GMT
This is a good interview with Stephen Frears that I know I've shared with pacinoyes before... I think this is the same interview where Frears and Hampton talked about loving - or tolerating - Malkovich for Dangerous Liasons though in theory he was all wrong and had no formal technical training at all - he didn't know how to stand, sit, eat, which fork to use, how to bow, or speak .....I loved that because they saw "one aspect" that cancelled the negatives iirc .........basically they saw Malkovich like he was Kramer from Seinfeld or something ..........  |
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 18, 2024 17:19:00 GMT
pupdurcs - Rupert Friend was 26/27 when the movie was filmed... All of the men you've mentioned are considerably older. Of Friend's age group, I'd think Chris Pine would be best suited to the material, but again, you'd have to consider that very few "star" American actors are interested in playing second fiddle to a leading female. pacinoyes - Not the same interview, but that is another great conversation! He's a brilliant man!
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.....I'll have to give the females some thought but I say this all the time Willem Dafoe is maybe THE best film actor of the 80s US class (Hanks, Washington, Cage, Spacey, Penn - it's arguable, not the "biggest star" but the best actor.....) and Dafoe is astonishing here............he's played Christ, Van Gogh, The Lighthouse, Poor Things, Born on the Fourth of July, Platoon, Mississippi Burning, Triumph of the Spirit, Auto Focus (I LOVE this performance btw), Nightmare Alley, Nortthman, the upcoming Nosferatu .......I mean that just off the top of my head 
