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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 5, 2024 14:41:51 GMT
Do you guys think we should have been introduced to the Emperor, Princess Irulan, and Feyd-Rautha in Part One?
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2024 14:49:11 GMT
Do you guys think we should have been introduced to the Emperor, Princess Irulan, and Feyd-Rautha in Part One? Yes. At the very least, mention should've been made of Feyd. He's got a great "reveal" in the second film but you have to build him up a bit, as he is a potential rival for Paul that the Bene Gesserit have engineered. It seems too much like a last-minute afterthought in the Bene Gesserit's plan to have him show up when he does. The Emperor as we see in this film is such a passive character he almost doesn't matter, which is a shame because Walken is a great actor and I think they could've done more with him here. Pugh's very good with what she's given as Irulan, and I think we got as much of her as I think we needed considering the character she is, but some structural reshuffling of scenes in the inevitable fan recut of this film into one movie might help with that. Ultimately, these lingering plot threads are why Dune doesn't quite stack up for me against Villeneuve's other sci-fi masterclasses. I get wanting to start small in the first film and expand once they guaranteed a sequel, but the problem is that the first film still isn't a complete narrative arc in itself, and Part Two closes the loop magnificently but if you take it as a single piece, certain plot threads are introduced far too late and others are straight-up abandoned (Thufir Hawat and the Mentats in general).
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Mar 5, 2024 14:51:37 GMT
Gurney and Rabban never interact or mention each other in the first movie, right? That whole mini blood feud came out of nowhere.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2024 14:57:11 GMT
Gurney and Rabban never interact or mention each other in the first movie, right? That whole mini blood feud came out of nowhere. Correct. It's clear Gurney has dealt with the Harkonnens before in the first movie ("They're not human, they're BRUTAL!") but we get nothing beyond that. I feel like some mention of them in the first film discussing the hierarchy of the Harkonnens, with Gurney grimacing at the mention of Rabban (calling him "Beast", maybe?) and them talking about Feyd, the real heir apparent, would've been well served.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Mar 5, 2024 14:57:53 GMT
Do you guys think we should have been introduced to the Emperor, Princess Irulan, and Feyd-Rautha in Part One? I'm pretty happy with how everything was set. I think ideally we'd have a scene with the Emperor and Leto in Part One to make a certain scene in Part Two hit harder (and to really establish the galactic stakes here), but that's a minor thing. I think the deployment of Princess Irulan and Feyd-Rautha is as good as it could be, especially for the latter.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Mar 5, 2024 14:58:06 GMT
My cast ranking: 1. Bardem 2. Ferguson 3. Butler 4. Brolin 5. Chalamet 6. Seydoux 7. Skarsgård 8. Zendaya 9. Rampling 10. Walken 11. Bautista 12. Yacoub 13. Olusanmokun 14. Taylor-Joy 15. Pugh Not a bad performance in the bunch, but Pugh does feel like the one who doesn't find her way through a thankless role. Yacoub (low-key excellent and one of my complaints with the film is we didn't get enough of her, or why she stayed behind; I thought she had died trying to kill Bautista when he was fleeing the desert but that wasn't her apparently?) Is she the woman that gets burnt to death by Feyd offscreen?
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 5, 2024 14:59:41 GMT
Do you guys think we should have been introduced to the Emperor, Princess Irulan, and Feyd-Rautha in Part One? Yes. At the very least, mention should've been made of Feyd. He's got a great "reveal" in the second film but you have to build him up a bit, as he is a potential rival for Paul that the Bene Gesserit have engineered. It seems too much like a last-minute afterthought in the Bene Gesserit's plan to have him show up when he does. The Emperor as we see in this film is such a passive character he almost doesn't matter, which is a shame because Walken is a great actor and I think they could've done more with him here. Pugh's very good with what she's given as Irulan, and I think we got as much of her as I think we needed considering the character she is, but some structural reshuffling of scenes in the inevitable fan recut of this film into one movie might help with that. Ultimately, these lingering plot threads are why Dune doesn't quite stack up for me against Villeneuve's other sci-fi masterclasses. I get wanting to start small in the first film and expand once they guaranteed a sequel, but the problem is that the first film still isn't a complete narrative arc in itself, and Part Two closes the loop magnificently but if you take it as a single piece, certain plot threads are introduced far too late and others are straight-up abandoned (Thufir Hawat and the Mentats in general). Co-signed, although I'm definitely not as familiar with the source material as you. But... I found Rampling's dry line delivery of "That's irrelevent" to being reminded that Feyd is a psychopath quite funny, so I guess I didn't mind the abrupt introduction too much. I actually find Walken's casting here quite bizarre... He reads as so modern and "American" to me - although I guess the same can be said of Momoa and Brolin. This is definitely an IP that's really hard to classify, lol. Also... why is Pugh speaking in an American accent? I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but I definitely preferred Part One as a stand-alone film.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2024 15:03:51 GMT
Yacoub (low-key excellent and one of my complaints with the film is we didn't get enough of her, or why she stayed behind; I thought she had died trying to kill Bautista when he was fleeing the desert but that wasn't her apparently?) Is she the woman that gets burnt to death by Feyd offscreen? Yes. She's the Fremen woman that Zendaya is tight with throughout the first half of the movie, and I really liked her energy and vibe. She felt like Chani's Gurney Halleck.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Mar 5, 2024 15:06:43 GMT
Is she the woman that gets burnt to death by Feyd offscreen? Yes. She's the Fremen woman that Zendaya is tight with throughout the first half of the movie, and I really liked her energy and vibe. She felt like Chani's Gurney Halleck. Aw man. She was awesome. Her banter with Paul was fun as hell too. It's weird how we get zero scenes of Chani reacting to her death. She never gets brought up again.
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Post by stephen on Mar 5, 2024 15:11:41 GMT
Yes. She's the Fremen woman that Zendaya is tight with throughout the first half of the movie, and I really liked her energy and vibe. She felt like Chani's Gurney Halleck. Aw man. She was awesome. Her banter with Paul was fun as hell too. It's weird how we get zero scenes of Chani reacting to her death. She never gets brought up again. Exactly. That would've given Zendaya so much to work with, seeing her friend as the first major casualty of Paul's messianic rise, and that weighing heavily on her would fuel her character's reactions to the rest of the arc. Yacoub's character feels very much like a victim of Villeneuve's editing, as it is confirmed that Stephen McKinley Henderson and Tim Blake Nelson (presumably as Count Fenring, Lea Seydoux's husband in the book) filmed scenes as well for the sequel and they were similarly excised. I know Villeneuve hates the concept of "director's cuts" and I completely get the creative aspect of wanting to stick by his cut as the true cut, but most of my issues do come down to what he clearly cut from the overall piece, whereas with most films you don't really know what was left on the cutting room floor. At least release the deleted scenes to allow for the fans to make a proper "Spice" cut like they did with Lynch's version.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Mar 5, 2024 15:13:13 GMT
I know that Villeneuve doesn't believe in extended cuts or even deleted scenes, but it feels like a lot of important stuff was cut from these movies.
I don't wanna complain too much, I still liked both movies a lot. But a LOTR style extended edition would be heavenly.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Mar 5, 2024 15:14:30 GMT
Aw man. She was awesome. Her banter with Paul was fun as hell too. It's weird how we get zero scenes of Chani reacting to her death. She never gets brought up again. I know Villeneuve hates the concept of "director's cuts" and I completely get the creative aspect of wanting to stick by his cut as the true cut, but most of my issues do come down to what he clearly cut from the overall piece, whereas with most films you don't really know what was left on the cutting room floor. At least release the deleted scenes to allow for the fans to make a proper "Spice" cut like they did with Lynch's version. Great minds think alike
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Post by Pavan on Mar 5, 2024 16:44:59 GMT
Baron, Rabban, the emperor and to some extent Feyd, all got underwhelming endings. It was a bit easy for Paul dealing with these guys. I don't know why you introduce someone like Feyd and not use him to full potential. Still think the film left a lot to be desired in this front. I will watch it a second time before coming to any final conclusions though.
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 5, 2024 21:18:43 GMT
Do you guys think we should have been introduced to the Emperor, Princess Irulan, and Feyd-Rautha in Part One? I'm pretty happy with how everything was set. I think ideally we'd have a scene with the Emperor and Leto in Part One to make a certain scene in Part Two hit harder (and to really establish the galactic stakes here), but that's a minor thing. I think the deployment of Princess Irulan and Feyd-Rautha is as good as it could be, especially for the latter. Sorry I'm just now seeing your reply! I definitely agree about seeing a scene between the Emperor and Leto, but I think even just a peak at Irulan (when Paul is being tested with the box or at another point when the Reverend Mother was featured in Part 1) would have been helpful.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Mar 6, 2024 2:02:32 GMT
this is the #6 highest rated movie on letterboxd now after over 500k ratings
i thought it would peak at #21 haha, i’m sure it will settle closer to there but still that’s insane. people are eating this up
i watched it again and my sentiments are pretty much the same as my earlier post. it’s a masterpiece
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Post by Pavan on Mar 7, 2024 14:25:30 GMT
Its not the usual outwardly flamboyant blockbuster even though its stunning to look at. Its workings are more inward and that's where it shines most, the characters and the thematic richness of it all. There's a lot of stuff packed in here, i guess credit goes to the novel itself but it was not completely reproduced to the screen. Villeneuve is more interested in imagery than the workings of the story. He also wanted it to be an action film and that shows. I was in awe of the images on the screen for majority of its time but the big moments didn't do much for me. Like the one where Paul climbs up the hill and gets his followers riled up or the worms stomping the battle. These are great shots, entrances even, but they do not have a proper lead up nor they lead to an equally great finish. All great action sequences are like mini movies. You see their progression and you go along with them and you leave with a satisfactory payoff. Dune lacks that progression and payoffs and that's my biggest problem with Villeneuve's style. He is not this action director most people wants him to be. His greatest strengths are in the much calmer moments and that's where some supporting characters shined like Zendaya's Chani and Bardem's Stilgar. They give the film's much needed emotional quotient which the first film was short of. The last 30 min was solid, where everything worked up well. I did like it even though my review sounded more critical but its not the Empire Stikes Back or The Dark Knight or Two Towers we wanted it to be, at least not for me. A mild 7.5 Got some things clear in my 2nd viewing and i appreciated Zimmer's score better this time but the main problems i had with the film still exist. The uneven pacing. Denis likes to slow things a lot when he wants to slow and rushes up when he wants to go fast and as a result the action sequences suffered, especially the later ones. The other problem i had was how everything went easy for Paul and villains were underwhelming and i stand on this point that things went quick and easy for Paul. A strong 7.5
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tep
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Post by tep on Mar 7, 2024 21:41:10 GMT
Really loved this. Probably my favorite Villeneuve movie, with the exception of maybe Prisoners (haven't seen Incendies yet). Thought it was a huge improvement on the first in almost every way. tbh makes me appreciate the first film a whole lot less. Characters / performances were memorable, in general it felt much less lifeless, actually allowed for some levity. Already left a greater impression on me than the first one. 8.5ish / 10.
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forksforest
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Quit your shit-spitting
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Post by forksforest on Mar 10, 2024 8:24:06 GMT
This was an incredible theater viewing experience. Probably one of the most memorable ones, up there (if not higher tbh) with Inception, Mad Max.
Huge improvement over Dune PI, and justified its runtime - I was fully mesmerized. Feels like Villenueve just keeps reaching higher highs.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Mar 12, 2024 17:54:49 GMT
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Post by JangoB on Mar 12, 2024 23:35:20 GMT
My sandworm was bursting with the water of life throughout. Easily Villeneuve's best, a gargantuan sci-fi spectacle for the ages. This is what we go to the movies for
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Mar 14, 2024 6:06:34 GMT
Do you guys think we should have been introduced to the Emperor, Princess Irulan, and Feyd-Rautha in Part One? Yes. At the very least, mention should've been made of Feyd. He's got a great "reveal" in the second film but you have to build him up a bit, as he is a potential rival for Paul that the Bene Gesserit have engineered. It seems too much like a last-minute afterthought in the Bene Gesserit's plan to have him show up when he does. In the first film, Rampling tells Ferguson that the Bene Gesserit have other prospects outside of Paul, so while Feyd isn’t yet mentioned by name, there’s at least some indication that Paul has a potential rival (or more) that we might see later, so to me it didn’t really seem like an afterthought in the second film. But as someone who’s read the book, you might be able to clarify something. In the conversation between Rampling and Pugh, Rampling basically says that the goal of the Bene Gesserit was to terminate the Atreides bloodline … so why in the first film does she demand that the Baron spare Paul and Jessica’s lives? Aw man. She was awesome. Her banter with Paul was fun as hell too. It's weird how we get zero scenes of Chani reacting to her death. She never gets brought up again. Exactly. That would've given Zendaya so much to work with, seeing her friend as the first major casualty of Paul's messianic rise, and that weighing heavily on her would fuel her character's reactions to the rest of the arc. To me it seemed like her friend was not so much a casualty of Paul's messianic rise but more just a casualty of the Harkonnens’ cruelty… which wasn’t anything new, and casualties like that could happen at any point in the fight against the Harkonnens, so I’m not sure how that would especially fuel her character's reactions to the rest of the arc.
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Mar 14, 2024 13:48:42 GMT
I never understood the point of her friends death. Stayed behind to be a “spy”? The Harkonnens are pearl white and she was still wearing her Fremen gear. Spy my ass they just needed someone to set on fire.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Mar 17, 2024 4:34:49 GMT
Kind of hoping that Villeneuve titles the third film just Dune Part 3 instead of Dune Messiah. I feel like going with the novel’s title would make it appear like a separate thing instead of the conclusion of one long arc. Plus, I think it would make sense just to call it Part 3 since Part 2 feels clearly like a middle chapter.
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Post by stabcaesar on Mar 29, 2024 14:24:01 GMT
A marked improvement over the first instalment. The massive attack sequence in the end in particular is absolutely astonishing. The story itself is still just half way there though. I really like the satire and commentary on religious zeal, but I find myself not caring about the relationships in this story like at all. Literally nobody has chemistry with anyone else.
Another aspect I find really weak is the Harnokennes. They are so cartoonish in this instalment and are basically more of a threat to their own staff members than to their enemies. The coolest thing about them is their hairless aesthetics and ink fireworks.
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Post by sophiefox on Apr 6, 2024 13:58:21 GMT
it just leaked online.
nevertheless, go watch it in the theatres!! this is one of those that are simply made for the biggest screens in your area
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