Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Dec 27, 2023 14:58:08 GMT
So a portion of my time this year was devoted to Mr. Werner Herzog, one of the unique filmmakers of the modern era whose filmography makes a strong case for the question "So what if it's not perfect if it's this INTERSTING? "... I know he got some love on this board, so let's summon them and hear them out... ditto for the possible critics.  In th coming days I try to post my current top 10 ranking of his now that I actually have one (vanity is a bitch  ) and my focus is on his narrative features only (like the Haynes thread)... For the time being, please share your thoughts on this oddity of a filmmaker. Like are you tired of him? sick of him? can't get enough of him? his best and worst moments for you. *On a second thought: I invite anyone who feels like it to write on at least one Herzog film share their thought... let's see if we can make this one a collaborative thread than a typical one  |
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Post by stephen on Dec 27, 2023 15:05:58 GMT
He is one of my holy trinity of directors along with Lynch and PTA. Herzog's films are nearly always provoking, provocative, and even his misfires (rare as they are) have something of worth to explore. The only time where I feel he fully dropped the ball was probably his most nakedly commercial attempt with Queen of the Desert, a movie I really wanted to like but nevertheless felt missed the mark. But considering the man's prolific output and his command across genres, he's owed a mulligan or two.
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Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Dec 27, 2023 15:15:22 GMT
He is one of my holy trinity of directors along with Lynch and PTA. Herzog's films are nearly always provoking, provocative, and even his misfires (rare as they are) have something of worth to explore. The only time where I feel he fully dropped the ball was probably his most nakedly commercial attempt with Queen of the Desert, a movie I really wanted to like but nevertheless felt missed the mark. But considering the man's prolific output and his command across genres, he's owed a mulligan or two. I knew you're a big fan. Would love to read more of your takes on them, especially his lesser-tier ones. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 27, 2023 16:32:48 GMT
Ngl, I called you a bastard when you associated me with Polanski in a thread recently under my breath Nikan rather than with Herzog AND Polanski but now I have forgiven you because I was only joking when I said by rights you should be bludgeoned in your bed.......  * I always say that Hezog - at his best Signs of Life - Fitzcarraldo especially functions as a cross medium artist. His films take on the peculiarities of a novel, a painting or piece of music in addition to a film...... * I saw him in person one time give a lecture which went into why the original Nosferatu was a visionary film that predicted Hitler .......it was fncking terrifying to hear  ..... * I wrote on him in the thread that some of you might enjoy instead of the same daily Oscar nonsense (link below)  .......I wrote about him constantly tbh...... * A fave Herzog moment below as well in the vid below.......how can you not love him when you see this? movie-awards-redux.freeforums.net/post/224250 |
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Post by MsMovieStar on Dec 27, 2023 17:12:44 GMT
Oh honey, poor liebling Werner Herzog. Queen of the Desert was such a colossal flop (only made back 2m of its 36m budget)... but then again, he should have known better.
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Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Dec 28, 2023 11:56:09 GMT
Ok, let's get my least favorites out of the way. #10. Heart of Glass (1976)I blame this placement on the subtitles tbh. I suppose Herzog's films haven't had the best distrubution (of home video etc.)? Can't Criterion do something about this? unfortunately, I could hardly follow HoG (don't mistake this with House of Gucci lol) and it already is not an "easy" piece... and when I checked Wikipedia afterwards to realize what was going on, I got the impression that the director could actually communicate his story in a better way (supposedly the town's knowledgable fellow has passed away; how about showing such an important point and not just telling?)... I enjoyed sequences like the prince's feverish "dance" and the silent group production of glass but I feel I've already seen an improved version of this very film... it's called Valhallah Rising. The Stand out: "Popul Vuh" are responsible for the music in the majority of Herzog's films of this period, and their work in the opening here is outstanding.  #9. Woyzeck (1979)The play itself was famously left unfinished if I'm not mistaken, and I think it works as inspiration for other modern "mad man" narratives (like The Master) besides carrying historical importance.... but I don't love it, and I don't love Herzog's (be it faithful) take on it. It's sad and disturbing of course, but other upcoming films in this thread manage to be those and, well, more. Take Away: as dry and distant it is, I have to single-out the murder sequence near the end... and this might be the best Kinski performance on the list. I don't know, his usual madness felt the most measured here; maybe it being based on a text (which provides a "sensible" reason for it, and a text I already had familiarity with) actually helped?  |
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 28, 2023 13:54:17 GMT
Ok, let's get my least favorites out of the way. #10. Heart of Glass (1976)I blame this placement on the subtitles tbh. I suppose Herzog's films haven't had the best distrubution (of home video etc.)? Can't Criterion do something about this? unfortunately, I could hardly follow HoG (don't mistake this with House of Gucci lol) and it already is not an "easy" piece... and when I checked Wikipedia afterwards to realize what was going on, I got the impression that the director could actually communicate his story in a better way (supposedly the town's knowledgable fellow has passed away; how about showing such an important point and not just telling?)... I enjoyed sequences like the prince's feverish "dance" and the silent group production of glass but I feel I've already seen an improved version of this very film... it's called Valhallah Rising. Masterpiece tbh ^ - you have been reported What can you say about a movie where (almost) the entire cast is hypnotized - THAT's how you get actors to do what you want - which is his most overtly philosophical film...........which has one of my favorite lines in any movie "one is a liar, the other is a thief" .........and this is nothing like (the far inferior) Valhalla Rising: Heart of Glass is how a town loses its center when a glassblower dies and spins out of control to madness, murder, descent........like we might if we lose our job or get divorced or suffered a death of someone close - the disruption of routine and pattern and the habitual.........it's quite a profound idea and one of the few movies that works as a parable, fable or myth / allegory - sort of like the (wildly misunderstood - on MAR anyway) Banshees of Inisherin and a few others........ I have seen this movie on a big screen ..............and it was pretty awesome.............. |
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Post by Nikan on Dec 28, 2023 14:32:54 GMT
Ok, let's get my least favorites out of the way. #10. Heart of Glass (1976)I blame this placement on the subtitles tbh. I suppose Herzog's films haven't had the best distrubution (of home video etc.)? Can't Criterion do something about this? unfortunately, I could hardly follow HoG (don't mistake this with House of Gucci lol) and it already is not an "easy" piece... and when I checked Wikipedia afterwards to realize what was going on, I got the impression that the director could actually communicate his story in a better way (supposedly the town's knowledgable fellow has passed away; how about showing such an important point and not just telling?)... I enjoyed sequences like the prince's feverish "dance" and the silent group production of glass but I feel I've already seen an improved version of this very film... it's called Valhallah Rising. Masterpiece tbh ^ - you have been reported What can you say about a movie where (almost) the entire cast is hypnotized - THAT's how you get actors to do what you want - which is his most overtly philosophical film...........which has one of my favorite lines in any movie "one is a liar, the other is a thief" .........and this is nothing like (the far inferior) Valhalla Rising: Heart of Glass is how a town loses its center when a glassblower dies and spins out of control to madness, murder, descent........like we might if we lose our job or get divorced or suffered a death of someone close - the disruption of routine and pattern and the habitual.........it's quite a profound idea and one of the few movies that works as a parable, fable or myth / allegory - sort of like the (wildly misunderstood - on MAR anyway) Banshees of Inisherin and a few others........ I have seen this movie on a big screen ..............and it was pretty awesome..............Thanks for the input... I should give this another (and more proper) go, perhaps. But still, the behind-the-scene story you mentioned excites me more than what I actually sat through. That Herzog energy was running in the base of it; it just didn't translate very well into the final output imo. Btw it's so cool that you got to meet him in person! when was this? |
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 28, 2023 15:13:59 GMT
Btw it's so cool that you got to meet him in person! when was this? Let's say it was pre-Internet era when I was a small, impressionable child ........Herzog was not listed as part of the speaker series and certainly not on what he actually talked (spontaneously?) about ..........if anything he was like when Kinski played Jesus on stage and went full Punk Rock on the crowd in a way. Um.........except he didn't yell........ ......... I used to talk about this in the IMDB days - that Herzog is nothing like filmmakers he's often associated with .- filmmakers are in effect usually like asshole college professors - academic and insular ........Herzog is far more chaotic in his mind, work, and thoughts - and always has been - at his best he's decidedly "Punk Rock" in the pacinoyes use of that term........he's fully invested in the chaos..........as a young man he went to England..........and lived in the US............only Herzog could have made Stroszek because of that experience.........there may be no serious director who - as a young man too - has on some level called for (usually symbolic) murder, madness, Death more than him (Even Dwarfs Started Small, Heart of Glass, Grizzly Man and on and on) ....................as perfectly rational culminations of a reasoned thought process.' .............and he had Murder (or Death anyway) on his mind really early on ...........the windmills in Signs of Life are the metaphorical turning of (his?) the mind after all  |
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Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Dec 29, 2023 13:00:29 GMT
#8. Cobra Verde (1987)Herzog has done a great deal of interesting things and in the process, he has become many interesting things; but a sharp screenwriter isn't one of them. Letterboxed users, too, somewhat agree (convinced yet?) that the big "colonization" theme he's going for here has been covered with more success by himself in Aguirre and Fitzcarraldo... the struggle with Kinski went to it's extreme this time (they are the real Batman and Joker of cinema) and the final product feels more disjointed than their previous work... Still, I couldn't write this one off. You really don't want to look away as the next bit in Herzog film, usually has the potential to be something you're literally not going to see in any other film ever.  Stand-out moments: this features my favorite row of Kinski outbursts ngl, and him kicking-running a snake away seemed like the tip of everything, but then this MF ends it with this. Such lovely contrast between Verde's miserable fate and the pure joy of this local girl.
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Post by Nikan on Dec 30, 2023 10:26:16 GMT
Coming to America: in which the man tackles two Hollywood genres that feel like they've existed since day one (War biopics and hard boiled detectives)... but here, with a humorous touch of a master, amuse and entertain us from begining to end. #7. Rescue Dawn (2006) The takeaway: Aside from his iconic work in American Psycho (who could've seen the memeification of it at this rate, 20 years ago?) I'm not crazy about Christian Bale's comedic outputs (with DOR and Adam McKey)... this gave me a different Bale. He's hilarious (those expressions omg) and oddly wholesome in every action he takes. What works against it: It feels a little long from mid-prison time to the rescue itself (but never boring). #6. The Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call - New Orleans (2009) Really the only thing that works against this one in my view, that it takes time for the viewer to realize just how bonkers exactly is the thing they're watching. Otherwise , it just gets funnier with every re-watch. "Bhiik... mhistake".
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Post by Nikan on Dec 31, 2023 10:24:55 GMT
#5. The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser (1974)  His most Kubrick-ian film in a sense. The "dry" backgrounds of the town in those still long-shots from Woyzeck work much better here (and in the next title); working as a scene to entertain some philosophical thoughts about a "wild" man's place in the society, and in the world; like a Kaspar David painting came to life. The mysterious man in black? coolest shit ever... and it was released in nineteen-bloody-seventy four. Best year in modern cinema or what? I really wish Bruno S. had worked more with Herzog. At least three more, to balance with Kinski's numbers. Speaking of whom... #4. Nosferatu the Vampyre (1979) The original Murnau film is unbeatable in my book (favorite of the 20s probably) but man do I appriciate this for what it is more after a re-watch, in a time that I don't feel super-conservative in regards to the novel (maybe I should give Cappola's take another chance then?), Herzog doesn't like the book actually and he changes the ending here to something hopeless... and gloriously mean it sails by in a breeze and is arguably his most good-looking... and I love Adjani's presence in it (and his filmography, which sometimes feel too Goddamn MANLY you know  )
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 31, 2023 14:33:57 GMT
#5. The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser (1974) His most Kubrick-ian film in a sense. The "dry" backgrounds of the town in those still long-shots from Woyzeck work much better here (and in the next title); working as a scene to entertain some philosophical thoughts about a "wild" man's place in the society, and in the world; like a Kaspar David painting came to life. The mysterious man in black? coolest shit ever... and it was released in nineteen-bloody-seventy four. Best year in modern cinema or what? One of the things that makes Herzog great - and almost never happens in Pop Culture - where we (pathetically) jizz over success (look at this board - LOOK AT THIS BOARD FFS) - and its creaming our jeans over Oscar nominations and star salaries (fuck Taraji P. Hnson btw) and songs people "already know" - and utter fncking stupid ass bullshit is his not only identifying but championing of the outcast - or the loser, whatever. In the films you may have coming up you see this a lot - Strozsek, Grizzly Man, the previously mentioned Woyzeck (better than your rating Nik the Knife - cuckold pleb fed nothing but peas - peas ffs!), Even Dwarfs Started Small, his documetaries early on, Fitzcarraldo.........and this film's other title Every Man For Himself and God Against All - the title of his great (new) book btw - which more perfectly applies to this film and him too: In the film - Thrown into the world - motherless, fatherless (as God abandons the town in Heart of Glass?) and cast out as unexplainably ended as he began, misunderstood by science (like COVID ammiright?), intellect and polite society..........this is where Herzog's true heart lies - like his rival, countryman and fellow lunatic Rainer Werner Fassbinder - they were - you guessed it - Punk Rock in a world full asshats.........they are specifically on the side of the unpopular, unloved, misunderstood ..........
Here they are together........being awesome:![]()  |
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Post by Nikan on Jan 1, 2024 9:36:38 GMT
#3. Fitcarraldo (1982) I see this switching between #4 or #5 even (it's a very "alive" top 5) if only for how straightforward it is but still, to borrow Louis CK's word on something else, so aggressively one thing, like Fitz's own determition. When it is finally over, you feel you've carried the opera house over the damn montain - to some degree. Herzog the screenwriter comes third to me (behind Herzog the visualist and Herzog the wonder-seeker) but in retrospective, I think asking for more character-details would overweigh an already heavy movie experience. #2. Stroszek (1977) The more I think about it, the more I value it... like, did he really come to America to make the most moving road movie of the decade for them?  #1. Aguirre: The Wrath of God (1972) ..But as good as Stroszeck is, this one remains my #1, as it does for many people. You just never forget your first encounter with a visionary like him, and that's not taking away from how mysterious, atmospheric and wild this film was and is. It's the unusual kind of art that our primary The Replacements-head compliments and I can agree with here; where the "imperfections" of the work actually become it's virtue, it's identity... He achieved his Vertigo so early.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 1, 2024 11:44:22 GMT
#1. Aguirre: The Wrath of God (1972)..But as good as Stroszeck is, this one remains my #1, as it does for many people. You just never forget your first encounter with a visionary like him, and that's not taking away from how mysterious, atmospheric and wild this film was and is. It's the unusual kind of art that our primary The Replacements-head compliments and I can agree with here; where the "imperfections" of the work actually become it's virtue, it's identity... He achieved his Vertigo so early. Thanks - I've been called so much worse .............arguably THE greatest film ever made - I mean it's in my top 10 - top 5 actually ......top 3 maybe........and that shit is MARs official list ffs .............THE greatest in the sense that it is all things simultaneously: Epic and short.........seriously profound and deeply funny ........unforgettable on 1st watch it somehow gets better on rewatches ..........: I mean look at the size of that cross coming down the mountain.....but also the size of that canon.........a film about Spanish people talking German, that appears simultaneously ancient and quite modern................so many incredibly odd moments with animals: horses, monkeys, mice "saving" their babies, a sloth (who sleeps his entire life away!), and humans too - the Queen who walks into the forest just to disappear, swallowed by nature like she never existed, the Apocalypse Now scenes of odd deaths - the darts - "a spear" etc, the decapitated head still speaking - imagine if a movie snagged those 2 memorable scenes NOW in the Dumbfnck Internet era - it would called a rip-off - instead they are 2 of the greatest films of all-time............... insanely quotable - I like the way he mocks the priest to "pray monk" so that God's end doesn't befall our dear, quite mad Aguirre..........some images are so dazzliing as to appear a fever dream: Is that a boat IN the trees? ......and THAT image gets topped by what comes immediately after .......... ............and this list has 3 of my faves missing Signs of Life, Even Dwarfs Started Small, the later Grizzly Man..........just the way he conceives many of his documentaries is overwhelming - how can anyone describe what Fata Morgana is "about" anyway? I love everything he did in that Signs of Life-Fitzcarraldo period Great job on this thread   |
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) and my focus is on his narrative features only (like the Haynes thread)... For the time being, please share your thoughts on this oddity of a filmmaker. Like are you tired of him? sick of him? can't get enough of him? his best and worst moments for you. 
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.......I wrote about him constantly tbh......
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