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Post by Martin Stett on Dec 25, 2023 21:46:52 GMT
Just curious. I'm four episodes in and it sucks right now. A childish, simplistic TV show in comparison to the fantasy stories I love. Supposedly it is supposed to be smart and stuff, but I also heard that it takes a looooong time to get on its feet. Any fans on this board that could give me some idea of whether the show is worth watching?
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Post by countjohn on Dec 26, 2023 16:52:18 GMT
Season 1 is notoriously bad and there are all kinds of memes about it in the Star Trek fandom, assuming you hadn't heard of that before? Looked at what the first four episodes were and that is pretty rough, the pilot and Code of Honor in particular are complete dreck.
There are some scattered good episodes in S1, S2 is a dramatic improvement, and S3 is generally when the consensus says it becomes great although I like S2 better than some people.
I personally think it's one of the greatest shows of all time, but it's close to 200 episodes and pretty much 100% episodic outside of a few two parters so it's not going to be some people's cup of tea these days. Might be a good one to look at what are generally regarded as the best episodes first and then going back to watch the rest in order if you like it.
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Post by Martin Stett on Dec 26, 2023 17:19:09 GMT
Season 1 is notoriously bad and there are all kinds of memes about it in the Star Trek fandom, assuming you hadn't heard of that before? Looked at what the first four episodes were and that is pretty rough, the pilot and Code of Honor in particular are complete dreck. There are some scattered good episodes in S1, S2 is a dramatic improvement, and S3 is generally when the consensus says it becomes great although I like S2 better than some people. I personally think it's one of the greatest shows of all time, but it's close to 200 episodes and pretty much 100% episodic outside of a few two parters so it's not going to be some people's cup of tea these days. Might be a good one to look at what are generally regarded as the best episodes first and then going back to watch the rest in order if you like it. That's all pretty much what I had heard previously. Gonna try to power through it. I've seen worse, but it isn't super engaging either. I've never been a big fan of 100% episodic television - some amount of character development in an episodic format (Cowboy Bebop) is more my jam, although I'll also take long self-contained arcs (Sapphire and Steel, early Doctor Who) or repeated variations on a theme (The Prisoner).
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Post by Martin Stett on Jan 10, 2024 23:35:16 GMT
There have been a handful of decent episodes and one good episode (Home Soil - even if it is just on loan from Doctor Who), but for the most part, this season has been abysmal.
And nothing is more abysmal than the episode I just watched. Symbiosis is INFURIATING, creating a false moral dichotomy of what is good and what is evil, and using the Prime Directive as an excuse for our heroes to avoid responsibility for their own actions and suffering they cause to others. If the show understood this, something could still come out okay... but the writers don't have a clue that Picard is a monster, they don't have a clue that he has already interfered with these civilizations, they don't have a clue that he is condemning billions to death.
Fuck this episode. What a monstrous story.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 11, 2024 3:38:43 GMT
There have been a handful of decent episodes and one good episode (Home Soil - even if it is just on loan from Doctor Who), but for the most part, this season has been abysmal. And nothing is more abysmal than the episode I just watched. Symbiosis is INFURIATING, creating a false moral dichotomy of what is good and what is evil, and using the Prime Directive as an excuse for our heroes to avoid responsibility for their own actions and suffering they cause to others. If the show understood this, something could still come out okay... but the writers don't have a clue that Picard is a monster, they don't have a clue that he has already interfered with these civilizations, they don't have a clue that he is condemning billions to death. Fuck this episode. What a monstrous story. Yeah dude, this is really not the show to watch straight through in order, I warned you. I'm a huge ST fan and even I don't want to do that. Outside of the Borg and Klingon episodes forming ongoing arcs it's pretty much 100% episodic and the order you watch doesn't matter. Just hoping you don't quit before it gets good Outside of "The Neutral Zone" being a very loose backdoor introduction to the Borg all of S1 was pretty skippable. What did you think of The Big Goodbye out of curiosity since that's one of the better S1 ones I think.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jan 11, 2024 4:16:23 GMT
There have been a handful of decent episodes and one good episode (Home Soil - even if it is just on loan from Doctor Who), but for the most part, this season has been abysmal. And nothing is more abysmal than the episode I just watched. Symbiosis is INFURIATING, creating a false moral dichotomy of what is good and what is evil, and using the Prime Directive as an excuse for our heroes to avoid responsibility for their own actions and suffering they cause to others. If the show understood this, something could still come out okay... but the writers don't have a clue that Picard is a monster, they don't have a clue that he has already interfered with these civilizations, they don't have a clue that he is condemning billions to death. Fuck this episode. What a monstrous story. What did you think of The Big Goodbye out of curiosity since that's one of the better S1 ones I think. Boring. It's a half-baked idea that just goes nowhere. And the inclusion of the B-plot is reeeeeeally awkward in so many ways, heavily detracting from the story. On a side note, having families with kids on this ship is the most horribly stupid idea - this is a military vessel involved in a new disaster every week, and children that do not contribute and have become liabilities at least once in this season ( When the Bough Breaks is about their kidnapping) have no business on board. Especially when one of those kids is Wesley Crusher, the most insufferable "my original character!" piece of shit I've seen in many a moon. If you must have children in your military/explorers - as many have done throughout history - give them responsibility and treat them as adults. (The 2003 version of Fullmetal Alchemist did a good job of this once it got over its own growing pains - by the end, Edward Elric has grown into his position through the training of his superiors like Mustang and Armstrong, who always treat him as a subordinate instead of a child.) On a different side note, Tasha is the most useless security officer in any work of fiction ever. Paul Blart would do a better job... although his boobs are not as perky and yummy looking. That said, I'm not totally hating this season. I think it is Stockholm Syndrome. For every three terrible episodes there's a half decent one in there, and the first five minutes of almost every episode is good. There have been a couple of interesting ideas, even if they're not explored properly. I think a big issue I'm having is the utopian vision of the future that is essential to Star Trek. The show is not convincing in its portrayal. I can't place my finger on it, but this "ideal future" gives me the heebie-jeebies. I think a utopian vision is a cool idea, but it is too busy trying to show us how civilized and advances our heroes are, like it is trying to force us into believing it instead of letting the vision show itself naturally - and I distrust it for that reason. Does that make sense?
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Post by countjohn on Jan 11, 2024 4:59:38 GMT
Yeah, kids on the ship was always a weird choice and it became the kind of thing that they just ignored when it wasn't convenient like when they're going into battle against the Borg or Klingons. You can get away with something like that on such an episodic self contained show.
Wesley is another extremely unpopular element of the show associated with the first year. His role is dramatically reduced as a part of the changes that were made afterward and Wheaton leaves altogether after the third year.
Glad you're liking little bits of it and I agree that's the case with S1. The good elements here are a preview of what the whole show became especially one you get to the third year. The second year is the transitional year where it clearly improves but isn't quite there yet.
That kind of corny earnestness is just on brand for Star Trek, you got it on TOS too. Some of the later spinoffs (namely Ds9) got darker and more cynical but that's not Star Trek to me.
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