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Post by Brother Fease on May 14, 2022 12:29:50 GMT
Very interesting case. Here's a brief viewpoint of the situation:
Joe Kennedy was an assistant football coach for Bremerton High School in Bremerton, Washington. After every game, he would do a little prayer for about 15-30 seconds on the 50-yard line. At first, he did it alone, but then other students joined him. Kennedy claims it was 100% voluntary and never endorsed any religion in particular. The school district claims Kennedy was violating the first amendment of the students and was encouraging the students to pray with him. Many parents complained about his actions. The school has said they tried to accommodate Kennedy's religious beliefs and wanted him to pray somewhere else, but Kennedy said no.
Where do you guys draw the line here? Who is right, and who is wrong? A couple of the conservative justices pointed out that coaches have influences over the players. We're talking about playing time and recommendations for colleges.
Based on everything I have read, the conservative-leaning Supreme Court (SCOTUS) is most likely going to side with Kennedy, not the School District. The argument breaks essentially breaks down into these two camps:
CAMP ONE - People should be allowed to pray anywhere they want. It doesn't matter the time of day or location or whose leading it. Kennedy did a small non-religious prayer. There's no sufficient evidence that he was giving special treatment to the players who knelt with him on the 50-yard line.
CAMP TWO - Religious freedom is great, but that's not what happened in this case. Kennedy's 15-30 second prayer was "Organized Prayer" by a faculty member. Coaches have incredible influence over the players and their potential futures. Kennedy should have taken the school's request and prayed somewhere else.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 14, 2022 13:19:13 GMT
That was a rather sort of grotesque summary of the issue from CBS tbh - no wonder no one trusts the big media on anything with nuance. An even better discussion imo of this - but from the POV of the coach - who needs it after that somewhat hatchet job - was on Megyn Kelly's Podcast - which is surprisngly awesome in long form often - regardless of your political leanings actually... ..........No one on MAR is going to watch Megyn Kelly's Podcast pacinoyes - GTFO  The simple truth is that America in 2022 is a center RIGHT country right now - the pendulum has swung wildly from 2020 - like shockingly so - culture wars are in the favor of the Right - almost all of them.... It's completely reasonable to me that the Supreme Court would rule in this guys favor when they rule.....however I don't see how "we" on MAR can say "what is right" without hearing a whole lots of "facts" about what constituted "coercion" at the school. If "coercion" can be substantiated.........he loses........if not, he wins. |
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Post by Brother Fease on May 14, 2022 14:28:44 GMT
It's completely reasonable to me that the Supremem Court would rule in this guys favor when they rule.....however I don't see how "we" on MAR can say "what is right" without hearing a whole lots of "facts" about what constituted "coercion" at the school. If "coercion" can be substantiated.........he loses........if not, he wins. I think CBS tried to play both sides. They gave both sides of the issue. Megyn Kelly favors one side of the argument. It is important to hear the reasonable arguments on each side, especially one with historic importance. This case could potentially become precedent for future religious freedom issues.
For the record, I side with the coach here. I know, I know, this may surprise people here. Based on what I read, the coach did not come across as a religious right nut. He said a small secular prayer. It happened after the game. Unless there's evidence the coach was picking favorites based on the student's prayer status, I see no reason why the courts should favor the school. It should be noted religion and spirituality are two different things. There's connective tissue, but they don't mean the same thing.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 14, 2022 14:49:02 GMT
It's completely reasonable to me that the Supremem Court would rule in this guys favor when they rule.....however I don't see how "we" on MAR can say "what is right" without hearing a whole lots of "facts" about what constituted "coercion" at the school. If "coercion" can be substantiated.........he loses........if not, he wins. I think CBS tried to play both sides. They gave both sides of the issue. Megyn Kelly favors one side of the argument. Not really - the fact that Kelly will devote multiple segments to this - long form ones - encourages both sides being covered more fairly than CBS - when CBS tries too hard to cover EVERYTHING in less than 4 minutes before showing commercials for sandwich bags or something. Kelly frequently covers both sides far better than that CBS piece by the time she's done covering it - and even in her piece here she gave us the ACTUAL SCOTUS questioning in the case - which was far more balanced an overview than CBS was and which excluded that! Kelly is also just smarter to discuss it than CBS anyway - she's a lawyer - the CBS segment had actual contradictory information passed to the viewer that would confuse people on their own story: @3:11 the person in the CBS clip says " the line is prayer" - but that is not the line by her own admission and everthing covered prior - by both sides admission - "prayer" is not actually in play - it's the "where and how, and effect" that are in play in the case - and she likely said something more beyond that quote later that expanded on her thought......... that they likely edited out ............because CBS is stupid, doesn't know what followup questions to ask, edits the stories poorly, is trying to condense far too much into too short a format.........and because unlike Megyn Kelly they are (likely) not a lawyer either. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2022 15:14:31 GMT
If there is prayer in public school, it should be student-led, student-initiated. Period.
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Post by quetee on May 14, 2022 16:20:32 GMT
I would rule against the coach. A coach is influential.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on May 15, 2022 16:53:15 GMT
i will remember shit like this when people accuse me of not being realpolitik enough. what a fucking non issue lmao
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 27, 2022 14:16:54 GMT
The football coach wins 6-3.........pacinoyes, a God-fearing man - whose age itself is a kind of a biblical miracle  - and who believes in prayer (and thoughts) when people get you know, shot and stuff and die - quietly keeping his mouth shut today while this boards many agnostics and atheists are having a bad stretch on the religious issues - this and the school vouchers decision last week. Court is kinda running amok depending on your POV on God and such......... and that's - aside from Roe vs. Wade which they at least left out of the ruling explicitly.....  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2022 14:26:02 GMT
Surprise of the century.  |
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Post by quetee on Jun 27, 2022 14:33:34 GMT
Surprise of the century. lmao. I know right. And wow the same 6-3 decision. |
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Post by quetee on Jun 27, 2022 14:59:08 GMT
I read that the students felt pressured to participate because they didn't want to lose their spots.
So does this mean it would be okay for muslims?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2022 15:20:50 GMT
So does this mean it would be okay for muslims? These idiots haven't thought that far ahead.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2022 15:30:32 GMT
Someone could perform a Satanic ritual in the middle of the football field, too, right? The precedent has been set.
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Post by stabcaesar on Jun 27, 2022 15:36:40 GMT
Someone should bomb the fuck out of the US supreme court.
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Post by hugobolso on Jun 27, 2022 15:56:48 GMT
In Sports if prays works, we all pray.-
If pray don't work. There are F..ing id---ts. Fire the Coach!!!
We want people that win matches!!! wining teams matter.-
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2022 15:57:54 GMT
Y'all are ready for their ruling saying that corporations can put as much carbon into the air as they want, right?
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Post by Joaquim on Jun 27, 2022 17:24:31 GMT
Y'all are ready for their ruling saying that corporations can put as much carbon into the air as they want, right? Yes. |
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Post by Joaquim on Jul 1, 2022 1:05:52 GMT
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Post by Joaquim on Jul 1, 2022 1:06:31 GMT
So does this mean it would be okay for muslims? Yes. |
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- and who believes in prayer (and thoughts) when people get you know, shot and stuff and die - quietly keeping his mouth shut today while this boards many agnostics and atheists are having a bad stretch on the religious issues - this and the school vouchers decision last week.
