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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Apr 22, 2020 0:45:37 GMT
Results of the Lead vs. Supporting poll.
LEAD Adele Haenel - Portrait of a Lady on Fire 13/9 Willem Dafoe - The Lighthouse - 14/9 Noah Jupe - Honey Boy - 15/1 Brad Pitt - Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 15/9 Daniel Craig - Knives Out - 13/11 Ana de Armas - Knives Out - 23/1 Connor Swindells - The Vanishing - 6/4 Naomi Watts - Luce - 8/7 Kelvin Harrison Jr. - Luce - 14/1 Isabelle Huppert - Greta - 13/1 Vince Vaughn - Dragged Across Concrete - 8/5 Vasilisa Perelygina - Beanpole - 4/1 Lily James - Little Woods - 5/0 Valerie Pachner - A Hidden Life - 11/3 Jake Gyllenhaal - Velvet Buzzsaw - 10/2
SUPPORTING Song Kang-ho - Parasite 1/24 Choi Woo-shik - Parasite 11/13 Shia Labeouf - Honey Boy 4/13 Lucas Hedges - Honey Boy - 4/12 Tom Burke - The Souvenir - 3/10 Baykali Ganambarr - The Nightingale - 1/17 Anthony Hopkins - The Two Popes - 7/14 Kelvin Harrison Jr - Waves - 5/11 Taylor Russell - Waves 2/14 Octavia Spencer - Luce 0/15 Meryl Streep - The Laundromat - 5/10 Jonathan Majors - The Last Black Man in San Francisco - 2/10 Tom Hanks - A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood - 0/20 Jack Reynor - Midsommar - 1/19 Kippei Shîna - The Forest of Love - 0/3 Rebecca Ferguson - Doctor Sleep - 0/16 Dakota Johnson - The Peanut Butter Falcon - 0/12 Jamie Foxx - Just Mercy - 0/8 Debbie Honeywood - Sorry We Missed You - 2/3 Jennifer Lopez - Hustlers - 1/18 Rene Russo - Velvet Buzzsaw - 4/8 Robert Downey Jr. - Avengers: Endgame - 7/10 Chris Evans - Avengers: Endgame - 7/10
ADAPTED The Farewell - 7/10
TIE Mark Duplass - Paddleton - 2/2
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Post by DeepArcher on Apr 22, 2020 0:53:46 GMT
Haenel in lead kinda boggles my mind, but okay.
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Archie
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Eraserhead son or Inland Empire daughter?
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Post by Archie on Apr 22, 2020 2:40:15 GMT
Welp, that's an easy win for Pesci.
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Post by JangoB on Apr 22, 2020 11:28:50 GMT
SENT.
FYCs:
BEST ACTOR Pierfrancesco Favino, The Traitor
BEST ACTRESS Cate Blanchett, Where’d You Go, Bernadette
BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR Asier Etxeandia, Pain & Glory Sterling K. Brown, Waves
BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS Julieta Serrano and Penelope Cruz, Pain & Glory
Les Misérables for Best Ensemble, Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Foreign Language Film and Best Debut Feature
John Wick: Chapter 3 - Parabellum for Best Production Design
An Officer and a Spy for Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Production Design and Best Foreign Language Film
The Golden Glove for Best Makeup & Hairstyling
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker for Best Original Score, Best Sound Mixing, Best Sound Editing and Best Visual Effects
Frozen II and A Shaun the Sheep Movie: Farmageddon for Best Animated Film
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Post by Miles Morales on Apr 22, 2020 15:31:48 GMT
Seriously? Brad Pitt in Lead and RDJ in Supporting?
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Post by stephen on Apr 22, 2020 15:40:29 GMT
Seriously? Brad Pitt in Lead and RDJ in Supporting? I have no earthly clue how anyone could consider Pitt as anything other than lead. He has so much screentime away from DiCaprio and it's his actions that drive the story far more than DiCaprio's, who feels almost incidental to the Manson storyline. If anything, when I look back on ...Hollywood, it's Cliff Booth's story that comes to mind first, with Rick's fall from grace feeling like the B-plot. Downey, Jr. and Evans are the co-leads of Endgame for me, but at least I can understand the supporting argument because it's a sprawling ensemble.
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Post by DeepArcher on Apr 22, 2020 15:50:36 GMT
Seriously? Brad Pitt in Lead and RDJ in Supporting? I have no earthly clue how anyone could consider Pitt as anything other than lead. He has so much screentime away from DiCaprio and it's his actions that drive the story far more than DiCaprio's, who feels almost incidental to the Manson storyline. If anything, when I look back on ...Hollywood, it's Cliff Booth's story that comes to mind first, with Rick's fall from grace feeling like the B-plot. The way I see it, Cliff being the "support" to Rick is literally the point the movie is making with the dynamic between those characters.
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Post by stephen on Apr 22, 2020 15:53:48 GMT
I have no earthly clue how anyone could consider Pitt as anything other than lead. He has so much screentime away from DiCaprio and it's his actions that drive the story far more than DiCaprio's, who feels almost incidental to the Manson storyline. If anything, when I look back on ...Hollywood, it's Cliff Booth's story that comes to mind first, with Rick's fall from grace feeling like the B-plot. The way I see it, Cliff being the "support" to Rick is literally the point the movie is making with the dynamic between those characters. Thematically, sure, but in terms of plot importance, Pitt drives the story and the climax doesn't happen without him. Hell, DiCaprio's barely present in that bit. If anything, he loses importance in the third act, whereas Cliff takes precedence. Hell, if you want to go with the concept of "the dynamic" as being Tarantino's intent, the end of the film cements that Rick would literally have not survived without Cliff, and that he (along with the audience) underestimated his importance.
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Post by DeepArcher on Apr 22, 2020 15:59:25 GMT
The way I see it, Cliff being the "support" to Rick is literally the point the movie is making with the dynamic between those characters. Thematically, sure, but in terms of plot importance, Pitt drives the story and the climax doesn't happen without him. Hell, DiCaprio's barely present in that bit. If anything, he loses importance in the third act, whereas Cliff takes precedence. Hell, if you want to go with the concept of "the dynamic" as being Tarantino's intent, the end of the film cements that Rick would literally have not survived without Cliff, and that he (along with the audience) underestimated his importance. That's all true ... but I guess it just depends on what criteria you base category placement on. It's a poetic and as you say thematic thing and that tends to be how I view things.
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Post by finniussnrub on Apr 22, 2020 16:22:44 GMT
How are Harrison and Russell supporting? There's two main characters, each share one half of the film. They are the two main characters.
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Post by Sharbs on Apr 22, 2020 16:41:15 GMT
How are Harrison and Russell supporting? There's two main characters, each share one half of the film. They are the two main characters. for this one I have Kelvin lead, that’s easy to me. I placed Russell in supporting because even in her half she gets sidelined for Hedges more often than not. That’s actually my main gripe with the film. That and wanting the first to be like 15 minutes long rather than half of it — in a Midsommar-like structure.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 17:29:55 GMT
The results for Lead/Supporting are what they are. It's a consensus thing, even if you disagree with particulars. Roll with it.
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Post by Miles Morales on Apr 22, 2020 17:54:57 GMT
Seriously? Brad Pitt in Lead and RDJ in Supporting? I have no earthly clue how anyone could consider Pitt as anything other than lead. He has so much screentime away from DiCaprio and it's his actions that drive the story far more than DiCaprio's, who feels almost incidental to the Manson storyline. If anything, when I look back on ...Hollywood, it's Cliff Booth's story that comes to mind first, with Rick's fall from grace feeling like the B-plot. Downey, Jr. and Evans are the co-leads of Endgame for me, but at least I can understand the supporting argument because it's a sprawling ensemble. Hmm. You make a good argument about Brad being Lead. I still think RDJ should've not been put in Supporting.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Apr 22, 2020 20:11:57 GMT
I'm more baffled by the Choi Woo-shik = supporting argument. When I think of a true ensemble piece, what comes to mind is Nashville or Short Cuts with their huge casts and no clear standout characters (not even vaguely). To me Parasite isn't an ensemble piece at all because Kim Ki-taek and especially Ki-woo have so much more significance/screentime than their costars, and Ki-woo especially drives a lot of the plot. The film opens and closes with the same shot of Ki-woo sitting in the basement apartment. The film frames this family's inability to extricate themselves from their hopeless existence almost entirely through Ki-woo's yearning and dreaming (through those opening and closing shots and his final lines). He's also the one who kicks off the plot and his university friend is the family's in with the Parks. The movie begins and ends with him. You can't analyze the film without focusing on Ki-woo's meaningless optimism undercut by the impossibility of his lower class situation. That IS the film. anyways, spilled milk. He doesn't make my ballot anyways I will have plenty of adjusting to do. Presumably Honeywood will have a better shot in supporting. (btw if you have watched Sorry We Missed You yet, go watch it).
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chris3
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Post by chris3 on Apr 22, 2020 22:16:09 GMT
Ecstatic that my two favorite performances of the year (Haenel in Portrait and Pugh in Little Women) aren't battling against each other and can both take the top spots on my ballot for their respective categories. Thanks Tommen_Saperstein for organizing the vote. Agree with some, disagree with others, and that's what makes these things fun.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Apr 24, 2020 0:58:42 GMT
so this is what I still need to get through:
Frankie The Good Liar Greener Grass Invisible Life Les Mis Making Waves: The Art of Cinematic Sound Monos Queen & Slim Queen of Hearts Sea of Shadows System Crasher The Truth
caught Doctor Sleep and Clemency this past couple days. Got nothing out of 'em.
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chris3
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I just ordered a slice of pumpkin pie...
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Post by chris3 on Apr 26, 2020 7:02:22 GMT
Haenel in lead kinda boggles my mind, but okay. I'm deeply curious as to why you feel this way. I think this movie quite clearly features two leads and two supporting roles. To say Heloise should be placed in the same category as Sophie and La Comtesse is kind of perplexing to me. True, the story is told primarily through Marianne's eyes, but Heloise is every bit as important to the narrative and carries equal levels of agency and complexity. True, Heloise doesn't show up until about twenty minutes into the film, but Marge Gunderson doesn't show up until half an hour into Fargo. If Heloise was a supporting role it wouldn't make any sense to end the film on her stunning minutes-long close-up shot. Just because one of the leads has a bit more screentime and is more clearly the audience surrogate doesn't mean that the co-lead has to also be an audience surrogate with her own separate arc a la Therese and Carol in Carol. Armie Hammer's Oliver to me is a co-lead in Call Me by Your Name, but I could understand why someone would place him as Supporting because honestly his character doesn't have much of an identity or existence outside of how he's perceived by Elio. Heloise has arguably even more of a pertinent backstory than Marianne and her arc is (IMO) unquestionably equal to Marianne's. One of the major themes and aims of the film is about placing the artist and the subject on equal footing, so it would seem like a slap in the face to the film to say one of them is more inherently important than the other. Just my thoughts, and I know many people on this board do consider Adele Haenel as Supporting, so I'd love to pick your brain to figure out why you'd place her there with such definitive confidence.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Apr 26, 2020 9:35:32 GMT
Haenel in lead kinda boggles my mind, but okay. I'm deeply curious as to why you feel this way. I think this movie quite clearly features two leads and two supporting roles. To say Heloise should be placed in the same category as Sophie and La Comtesse is kind of perplexing to me. True, the story is told primarily through Marianne's eyes, but Heloise is every bit as important to the narrative and carries equal levels of agency and complexity. True, Heloise doesn't show up until about twenty minutes into the filmalready voiced my feelings about this, but I did want to correct this point because I remember looking at the time and we don't see Heloise's face until over 40 minutes into the film (when she's running towards the cliff and then looks back). She's important to the narrative in the same way that Jessica Lange is in Tootsie or Armie Hammer is in Call Me By Your Name (both supporting IMO). For me what I can't shake is that everything we know about this woman--exclusively--is filtered through Marianne's perspective. Heloise doesn't have any scenes by herself. If she was in the whole movie that wouldn't matter, but she's not. She's absent from the framing device, from the first 40 minutes, and from most of the ending (up until that last scene where again, we only see her through Marianne's eyes). When we have a clear and consistent POV (in this case Marianne) which has been established from the very first scene, that absence matters to me.
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Post by DeepArcher on Apr 26, 2020 15:41:29 GMT
Haenel in lead kinda boggles my mind, but okay. I'm deeply curious as to why you feel this way. Tommen sort of hit the nail on the head -- and I didn't even realize that it wasn't for forty minutes that she finally shows up, which is even more extreme than I thought -- and I probably don't need to pile onto that but I'm going to anyway. The way that Heloise is framed as an object of fixation and ultimately infatuation for Marianne, it's all clearly establishing Marianne's POV as the sole one and in a way that directly ties to the themes of the film too. The film, to me at least, isn't about two women falling in love with each other so much as it is about the act of Marianne falling in love with Heloise (which is an important distinction, and a meaningful one for what makes this film great) and while we know that Heloise is experiencing the same thing we only know that when she tells Marianne. The final shot of Heloise doesn't indicate that she's a leading role and if anything is evidence of the opposite, because again we are seeing the character from Marianne's POV, and the fact that we are always seeing Heloise as an object of Marianne's gaze is, again, what the film is about in the first place. And I don't think that saying Haenel is a supporting role means putting the characters not on equal ground ... that is placing far too much value into totally arbitrary category placements if you ask me.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Apr 26, 2020 18:56:46 GMT
also want to clarify that I will happily vote for Haenel in any category. I just hope Merlant can get some love too.
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chris3
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I just ordered a slice of pumpkin pie...
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Post by chris3 on Apr 26, 2020 20:33:13 GMT
I'm deeply curious as to why you feel this way. I think this movie quite clearly features two leads and two supporting roles. To say Heloise should be placed in the same category as Sophie and La Comtesse is kind of perplexing to me. True, the story is told primarily through Marianne's eyes, but Heloise is every bit as important to the narrative and carries equal levels of agency and complexity. True, Heloise doesn't show up until about twenty minutes into the filmalready voiced my feelings about this, but I did want to correct this point because I remember looking at the time and we don't see Heloise's face until over 40 minutes into the film (when she's running towards the cliff and then looks back). She's important to the narrative in the same way that Jessica Lange is in Tootsie or Armie Hammer is in Call Me By Your Name (both supporting IMO). For me what I can't shake is that everything we know about this woman--exclusively--is filtered through Marianne's perspective. Heloise doesn't have any scenes by herself. If she was in the whole movie that wouldn't matter, but she's not. She's absent from the framing device, from the first 40 minutes, and from most of the ending (up until that last scene where again, we only see her through Marianne's eyes). When we have a clear and consistent POV (in this case Marianne) which has been established from the very first scene, that absence matters to me. Tommen I just checked and that scene happens at exactly twenty minutes into the movie.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 1:46:04 GMT
There's been a bruh moment while counting up the ballots gang - apparently there are some different perspectives on whether or not McKenzie in Jojo Rabbit is lead or supporting. Wanna hold a vote on that Tommen_Saperstein ?
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Steve17
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Post by Steve17 on Apr 27, 2020 2:45:18 GMT
Posting to remind myself.
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Post by DeepArcher on Apr 27, 2020 23:15:40 GMT
Well, I suppose I should start doing some FYCs for these... First one: don't even think about voting for Best Choreography before seeing And Then We Danced...
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omarfr9
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Post by omarfr9 on Apr 28, 2020 13:55:46 GMT
Ballot sent.
Ema: (the movie will be available on MUBI from the 2nd of May):
FYC: - Best Picture - Best Actress - Mariana Di Girolamo - Best Choreography - Best Sound Mixing - Best Original Song: "E$tado Unido" - Real - Best Soundtrack
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