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Post by hugobolso on Oct 29, 2018 3:26:44 GMT
It's a really fun politician.-
God Bless Brasil
Ordem e Progresso
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matheusf
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Post by matheusf on Oct 29, 2018 5:52:43 GMT
You know, I always wondered if your username was a reference to his name... As for me, I wanna die Here's hoping you far right gentlemen can have some fun these next four years, cause I sure as hell won't
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Oct 29, 2018 6:30:10 GMT
I hope that the criminal Cesare Battisti, sentenced to prison for the murder of some store owners during robberies, will be finally sent back to Italy to serve his sentence. He was protected by Lula and the others before.
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Post by ingmarhepburn on Oct 29, 2018 8:27:11 GMT
It makes me sad to see that far-right extremism is conquering more and more territory a bit all over the world, and it also makes me fear for the security of every nation. People like Bolsonaro present a real threat to human rights; they're more likely to corrupt and be corrupted, and they won't hesitate to star a war in the first minute they feel threatened. I wish you the best of luck, Brazilians. You will need it.
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Post by hugobolso on Oct 29, 2018 13:00:24 GMT
You know, I always wondered if your username was a reference to his name... As for me, I wanna die Here's hoping you far right gentlemen can have some fun these next four years, cause I sure as hell won't No at all. IVE USTed my nickname 4 almost 20 years. Bolso ja te nickname ir my sobre Team Club Nacional de Fútbol de Montevideo. Whose most famous soccer player is Luis Suárez Te only common things wirh Bolsonaro is that both are anticommunist años prolife 4 US Standard
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Post by wilcinema on Oct 29, 2018 13:06:05 GMT
He disgusts me.
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Post by DeepArcher on Oct 29, 2018 16:11:56 GMT
Fucking scumbag.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Oct 29, 2018 16:20:40 GMT
I think that with almost each new day, this world somehow turns into a bigger shitpile than ever, and yesterday was a super shitty day.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Oct 29, 2018 17:59:47 GMT
Pra despertar inveja alheia eu tenho dom
Se não gosta, senta e chora.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Oct 29, 2018 18:21:42 GMT
Pra despertar inveja alheia eu tenho dom Se não gosta, senta e chora. I'll give you the greatest possible benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not fully aware of the meaning of what you're saying.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Oct 29, 2018 18:37:44 GMT
Pra despertar inveja alheia eu tenho dom Se não gosta, senta e chora. I'll give you the greatest possible benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not fully aware of the meaning of what you're saying.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Oct 29, 2018 18:42:33 GMT
I'll give you the greatest possible benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not fully aware of the meaning of what you're saying. I'm well aware of where the line comes from, thank you very much. I honestly expected better from you.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Oct 29, 2018 18:50:59 GMT
This is sadly unsurprising. Whenever people feel insecure, they're more likely to be drawn to the fear-based power plays of far-right politics, even if that far-right group isn't actually in their best interest. In this particular case, Brazilians were legitimately upset over corruption but then voted for a guy who wants to resurrect a military dictatorship and give an already violent police force open invitation to kill on sight.
Unfortunately, pending a gigantic re-branding by saner political ideologies around the world, I don't see the far-right virus being stopped until after their leaders show themselves grossly incompetent and/or their policies spell disaster for their people. Both of those in some form are inevitable (far-right politics are more rhetoric than policy and unsustainable in the long-term as they only exacerbate the inequalities currently underlying global insecurity), but the last time we really had to worry about this on a global scale was WWII.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Oct 29, 2018 18:53:42 GMT
I'm well aware of where the line comes from, thank you very much. I honestly expected better from you. He was elected democratically. My first comment on him (I replied to this thread many hours ago) it's the only one that I, a foreigner, am entitled to write about him. Otherwise it means I have no respect for Brazilians.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Oct 29, 2018 18:56:40 GMT
I'm well aware of where the line comes from, thank you very much. I honestly expected better from you. He was elected democratically. My first comment on him (I replied to this thread many hours ago) it's the only one that I, a foreigner, am entitled to write about him. Otherwise it means I have no respect for Brazilians. The amount of respect that you're showing is duly noted and I won't forget it, don't you worry about that.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Oct 29, 2018 19:12:09 GMT
I know a girl from Brazil (she’s moving to Canada here soon though) and she’s really shook up about it. She’s really worried about the violence stemming from this, says that a lot of homophobia is going on and a lot of gays are being beaten.
Bolsonaro is going to be horrible for their country.
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matheusf
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Post by matheusf on Oct 29, 2018 21:27:38 GMT
Ok, now that the dust is settled, I won't be hyperbolic. I don't think Bolsonaro will make us go through a military dictatorship again. He won't tear down our constitution, political opponents and minorities won't be chased and killed, the amazon won't be burned to the ground, the congress and supreme court won't be shut down.
He will not create a state of oppression by coercive action. He will achieve this by constitutional means.
This election not only brought Bolsonaro to power, but also elected a vastly conservative congress and senate. His allies will have no problem lobbying their way to any law they wish, especially since the left is weak. And that is how Bolsonaro will achieve his ultra nationalist and oppressive goals: - Instead of fighting crime by tackling the root of the problem (like following drug money, for example), he will arm a population that, even without a culture of gun ownership, already kills over 60k people per year. - He will be a constant threat to much of human rights progress, like LGBT rights, gender equality, legalization of safe abortion, protection of indigenous tribes, etc. - Economic interest of corporations will be largely prioritized over people's welfare (example: we're poised to have a problem similar to the end of net neutrality in America). - Social development programs will be axed. Including the ones that has vastly reduced starvation and empoverishment. - Oh, and the amazon rainforest? The richest and most diverse ecosystem on Earth? It is now under the wing of a man who repeatedly opposed to its protection. A man who dismisses global warming, opposes the Paris agreement, and calls for a greater exploration of the amazon's natural resources. A man who actually proposed to disarm federal agents in charge of environmental protection (wasn't he in favor of gun ownership? I wonder what's his motives? Could this have something to do with the fact that one year before he proposed this he was fined by those very agents for predatory fishing?). He actually called for a complete disband of the federal organization in charge of environmental protection.
These are all just things that he proposes, by the way. He actually advocate for these things.
And then there's of course Bolsonaro's voters, who are the ones in charge of the coercive action this time. It's come to a point where you will get physically assaulted if you just wear red clothes (which apparently makes you a communist).
LGBT people are in constant danger right now, many of which have suffered from harassment and physical assault. Several gay nightclubs throughout the country shut down at election night, because after the results, they were immediately threatened. They are all sharing advices on how to stay safe on the streets and avoid getting hurt.
Honestly though, unlike what we say when we're being hyperbolic, Bolsonaro won't be as bad as the military dictatorship we endured between 1964-85, but he will be the closest we've ever been to those times.
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matheusf
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Post by matheusf on Oct 29, 2018 21:51:13 GMT
I know a girl from Brazil (she’s moving to Canada here soon though) and she’s really shook up about it. She’s really worried about the violence stemming from this, says that a lot of homophobia is going on and a lot of gays are being beaten. Bolsonaro is going to be horrible for their country. Things are really bad right now. Pretty much every gay person I know is in despair right now. Since last night, a lot of people are no longer restraining their prejudices. Just in the city I live a local gay nightclub had to close for the evening, because after the election results they began to receive threats, and t onnes of people drove by the place and threw objects at the people standing outside.
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Post by wilcinema on Oct 29, 2018 22:06:43 GMT
I know a girl from Brazil (she’s moving to Canada here soon though) and she’s really shook up about it. She’s really worried about the violence stemming from this, says that a lot of homophobia is going on and a lot of gays are being beaten. Bolsonaro is going to be horrible for their country. Things are really bad right now. Pretty much every gay person I know is in despair right now. Since last night, a lot of people are no longer restraining their prejudices. Just in the city I live a local gay nightclub had to close for the evening, because after the election results they began to receive threats, and t onnes of people drove by the place and threw objects at the people standing outside. JFC. What city are you from, if I may ask?
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matheusf
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Post by matheusf on Oct 29, 2018 22:35:52 GMT
Things are really bad right now. Pretty much every gay person I know is in despair right now. Since last night, a lot of people are no longer restraining their prejudices. Just in the city I live a local gay nightclub had to close for the evening, because after the election results they began to receive threats, and t onnes of people drove by the place and threw objects at the people standing outside. JFC. What city are you from, if I may ask? Campo Grande. A city with over 800k people where Bolsonaro got 71,27% of the votes.
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Post by FrancescoAbides on Oct 29, 2018 23:15:13 GMT
Honestly, I always knew he was going to win. It's a goddamn shame. This just shows how fragile democratic institutions can be in the face of angry crowds and a leader willing to feed their insecurities and exploit their fears. Agora vai ser um longo caminho a percorrer. Muita sorte e força
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Post by hugobolso1 on Oct 29, 2018 23:22:57 GMT
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Post by hugobolso1 on Oct 29, 2018 23:26:42 GMT
I know a girl from Brazil (she’s moving to Canada here soon though) and she’s really shook up about it. She’s really worried about the violence stemming from this, says that a lot of homophobia is going on and a lot of gays are being beaten. Bolsonaro is going to be horrible for their country. Really, because Brazil right now is one of the most dangerous countries in the world!!! Maybe you have a Brazilian imaginary friend.-
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Oct 30, 2018 2:32:19 GMT
Okay, now that I have the time to type out some proper thoughts.
This entire election cycle has been a toxic, despairing shitshow. It's the inevitable culmination of the country's rising divide, and things are only going to get worse from here.
Much like Trump, Bolsonaro was able to rise to power thanks to his online presence (I guess memes are how we do politics now, we elect them), his ability to tap into the electorate's deepest anxieties and resentments, a deeply unpopular competitor scaring people into seeking ANY alternative they could possibly find no matter the cost, and (perhaps most importantly) the undying pockets of hatred that dominate this country from top to bottom. Not everyone who voted for him is a hateful bigot, just like not everyone who voted for Trump was, but many of them absolutely are, and the rest are either completely indifferent to it or so privileged and removed from oppression that it doesn't even register for them. I'm surrounded by people who actually helped get this incompetent monster elected, and I'm perpetually torn between the thought that they're all good people who were acting out of their sincere (if misdirected) wish to better the country, and bitterness at their complacency in the face of pure hatred. One either votes for this clown because they agree with his rhetoric or because they're okay with it. There's really no middle ground, and that'll take me a long time to learn to live with.
What's exasperating isn't just the thought of all the policies that he and his backwards Congress will get to implement: rolling back all sorts of protections (what little there actually are, I mean) for racial, sexual and gender minorities; making guns even more easily accessible in a deeply violent, ruthless country; undoing all environmental regulations; eroding the political discourse and fostering a culture of anti-intellectualism and animosity; exacerbating urban violence by feeding into its causes instead of nipping them at the bud. All of that scares me very, very much, and I shudder at the thought of what this country will look like 4 years from now. But what's truly horrifying is that none of this is happening in a vacuum. Bolsonaro is the perfect embodiment of what this country is and always will be, and the empowerment of his supporters is as much a threat as the fact that he and his party are now in command.
The truth is, it's a legitimately scary time to be alive. For many (most?) it always has been, considering Brazil's LGBTQ population has always been murdered and assaulted at record rates, and I'll be the first to recognize that it's a symptom of my immense privilege that this is the first time I've ever felt real, genuine fear for myself and for others around me. But the openness with which bigotry has been flaunted is nothing short of chilling, and I can't remember ever seeing such a distinct uptick in violence in my life. Bolsonaro supporters drive by colleges a few blocks away from my house announcing on megaphones that once he's in office they'll get their green light to finally start laying their hands on the faggots; queer acquaintances of mine report being cornered on the street and told they only have a few more months left before they get what's coming to them; universities and other primarily left-wing spaces are getting vandalized with increasing frequency.
There's this pervasive cloud of fear and unrest hovering above the heads of everyone I know-- that is, everyone who didn't actively support all of this by voting for it, and that disconnect is fucking devastating to me. I'm not talking about the brain-dead minions who whole-heartedly subscribe to Bolsonaro's bullshit and parrot his odious rhetoric with pride; I'm not wasting any of my energy on them. What concerns me are the well-intentioned centrists casually buying into what he's selling in the vain hopes that he represents a valid opposition to a deeply flawed, corrupt alternative. These people genuinely don't understand. They simply do not get it. They're celebrating this so-called ~*political renovation*~ (haha) with absolutely no regard or compassion for those who have to live every day of their lives in fear of what'll happen to them and the ones they love.
I'm a bi person whose friends circle is basically 90% female, queer or both; I'm kiiinda straight-passing but not really. The message this election sends is loud and clear: 55% of the electorate either wants me and my close ones dead, or they're okay with us being collateral damage. Yay for democracy.
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Oct 30, 2018 2:52:44 GMT
As a Brazilian, I'll say...meh. His election is neither the revolutionary breakthrough his supporters are hoping, nor the end of the democratic order and human rights as his opponents are claiming.
From one perspective, Dilma Rousseff won the election in 2014 by spending around 300-400 million dollars (nobody really knows for sure), nearly 3/4 of it in illegal campaign contributions (a lot of it outright stolen directly or indirectly from public funds).
Meanwhile, Bolsonaro spent less than R$ 2,6 million reais, which converts to give or take 700 thousand dollars, which means he spent less than a cent of a dollar per vote he got (Haddad spent 14 times more), so that alone is a revolution, and can contribute to making campaigns cheaper, which is a massive blow on corruption, since campaign financing is, both in Brazil and abroad, the main cause for corruption in politics.
At the same time, he clearly is deeply unprepared to be president and has some indefensible views, so it's obviously terrible news (though worse than Haddad/Lula being president? That's at least EXTREMELY debatable).
Aa to why he won, the main reasons are not because Brazil's (mostly black and mixed race) population became racist and misogynous (even though in polls he and Haddad were at similar numbers among women), or because the population is mostly ignorant and/or uneducated (Haddad did better with poorer voters, though that was more because he winning that segment of the population in the Northeast with 80% or 90% of the vote) or because the country became possessed by evil spirits or whatever.
There is a simply answer: the main issues that concerned Brazil's voters were crime and corruption, he was the only candidate talking about them both at length and proposing different (if debatable on the crime front at least) solutions, and he faced in the 2nd round of voting a candidate from a party that, on both issues, undeniably failed completely in it's years in power.
It was essentially a big gamble for him to run, but he managed to notice a few things (although he wasn't the only one): a) Brazil didn't have a very popular nationwide conservative leader for a long time, perhaps ever since Carlos Lacerda in the 60's; b) The population was tired of rampant corruption and violent crime; c) There was a yearning for anti-establishment and non-traditional names to run for office, but the major parties probably wouldn't allow someone like that, untouched by corruption, to run for president; d) There probably would be a lot of people running for president in 2018.
So, he gambled that, if he managed to take a significant bite of the conservative and/or anti-establishment votes, he could go to the 2nd round, and going against Lula or a puppet of his, he'd face someone with an even higher rejection rate than him. Evidently, his gamble worked probably even better than he expected it.
It should be noticed that the main responsible for Bolsonaro's election however is Luis Inácio Lula da Silva. Yes, because if you look at the main criticisms directed at Bolsonaro:
a) He has authoritarian tendencies; b) He has expressed admiration for dictatorships; c) He's mercurial and irascible; d) He's unqualified for the job of president; e) He didn't accomplish much when he was a member of the House of Representatives; f) He has said a lot of sexist, homophobic shit; g) He's populist and a demagogue.
While all of them are true to at least some extent, every single one of those statements apply to Lula. Meanwhile, Bolsonaro is not a criminal convicted for corruption.
And, while you may argue that Lula isn't the candidate, Haddad released his campaign from outside the Federal Police building Lula is being kept it, had as slogan "Haddad is Lula" (which John Oliver mocked very well) and "We're bringing Lula's Brazil back", and went to visit Lula in prison at least once a week to take orders for most of his campaign.
Unsurprisingly, when presented with the choice between "Puppet of a convicted criminal that was the head of a criminal organization" and "Other Guy", most people went with the other guy.
Haddad wasn't Lula's original choice for Lula's substitute, but former governor of Bahia Jacques Wagner, who was, refused and suggested they support another candidate instead arguing that without PT (that's the Workers Party for you English speakers) in the race, Bolsonaro wouldn't have a chance, since his entire platform was built on being the anti-Lula and anti-PT sentiment, and he was probably correct. But Lula wanted someone he could control, and presumably, would get him out of prison quickly, and sabotaged the main alternative from the left, Ciro Gomes (he and Dilma Rousseff already did something similar with Marina Silva in 2014).
Of course there were better alternatives than either Haddad or Bolsonaro (I voted for João Amoedo, who finished 5th, in the first round; in the second, I didn't vote for anyone, since I was not in my hometown), but the field was just too crowded for one of them to get noticed.
Anyway, I strongly doubt Bolsonaro will be a good president, but a country that survived 16 years of Lula, Dilma and Temer can survive anything...I hope.
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