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Post by Viced on Jul 31, 2018 20:00:38 GMT
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Jul 31, 2018 20:06:52 GMT
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Post by stephen on Jul 31, 2018 20:18:27 GMT
I mean, isn't that American Gangster?
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Jul 31, 2018 20:19:46 GMT
I suppose there are worse things in the world...
But at the same time I turned off The Equalizer about 30 minutes in.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Jul 31, 2018 20:19:52 GMT
American Gangster II: Havana Nights
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 31, 2018 20:20:27 GMT
Well that's a smart move because Pacino, as America's greatest living actor kind of owns that role.
Um.........oh nevermind
No, seriously the thing the makes Scarface special and the problem with a remake is the script angle. I don't personally rank it in Pacino's top 10 performances - that's how amazingly deep his best work runs - but the Marielto influx from Cuba separates that film in a lot of significant and sly ways.
That was a real brilliant approach in that script because it made it timely, relevant and fresh. That group never remotely existed in American film prior which is one of the reasons people didn't get it at first, they didn't know how to react to the milieu and garishness of it because they hadn't seen that in a film. Without a similarly inspired angle into the material........it's not a good idea, regardless of who you cast.
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Post by Pavan on Jul 31, 2018 20:32:10 GMT
I hope Denzel nudges Fuqua to not touch it.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 31, 2018 21:30:04 GMT
Hey, if someone else is going to touch an iconic role, it might as well be the world's greatest actor, Mr Washington.
To be honest, I think it's probably going to happen. I saw a joint interview with Fuqua where Washington seemed reticent, but Fuqua has been talking about this everywhere in the last week, which makes me think he's chipping away at any reservations Washington might have. Fuqua is Denzel's new Tony Scott. If Scott can convince him to do two entirely different films about trains back to back, Fuqua can probably convince him to play Scarface.
They've been talking about Washington playing his version as a Dominican immigrant, and Denzel busted out a half-decent Dominican accent during the interview. From a fan perspective, it'd be a blast to hear him talking in such a different voice for a whole movie. He busts out his Dominican accent at about 5:30 in the video below
I used to be against the notion of Washington doing this (I thought it was a possibility when Fuqua was first attached to the remake years ago, but then dropped out), but as fun as Scarface is and as iconic as Pacino is in the role, the movie itself is fairly dated now. The Muni version is extremely dated as well. If anyone is iconic enough to get away with doing his own riff on a character that's already been played a couple of times, it's Washington. It's not much different from Joaquin Phoenix trying to step in the Joker shoes already filled iconically by Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger (the less said about Jared Leto the better). This movie is getting remade regardless. I'd rather see someone the calibre of Washington put his own spin on it, than have someone like Diego Luna (who was cast in the last aborted attempt at the remake), who though a fine actor, would never be able to get out of Pacino's shadow. By virtue of being Denzel Washington, he doesn't have to worry about being in anyone's shadow even if people still prefer Pacino's (or Muni's to the less initiated) rendition.
Basically, it could be a lot of fun.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 31, 2018 21:35:39 GMT
I mean, isn't that American Gangster? Not really. Frank Lucas was used as a metaphor for a capitalist businessman, except his product was hard drugs. The movie version of Frank Lucas was insanely disciplined (Fur Coat aside) in a way neither version of Tony Scarface has ever been. Washington underplayed as Lucas. If Washington does do it and sticks to the previous grand guignol approachs of Pacino and Muni, we could see a seriously batshit crazy performance from him, Dominican accent and all.
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Post by stephen on Jul 31, 2018 21:53:54 GMT
I mean, isn't that American Gangster? Not really. Frank Lucas was used as a metaphor for a capitalist businessman, except his product was hard drugs. The movie version of Frank Lucas was insanely disciplined (Fur Coat aside) in a way neither version of Tony Scarface has ever been. Washington underplayed as Lucas. If Washington does do it and sticks to the previous grand guignol approachs of Pacino and Muni, we could see a seriously batshit crazy performance from him, Dominican accent and all. Would Washington even be pushing to play a Dominican character (I know he does an accent for that interview, but that came off as a riff on Pacino more than anything else, and would that be the tack they would be taking with the new project)? Muni's character was Italian (makes sense, as he was based on Al Capone). As much as I dislike Pacino's film/performance, it makes sense that with the influx of the Caribbean islands into the drug trade of the era, transposing Tony from Italian heritage to Cuban wasn't going to be a hard sell. But my worry would be that Washington/Fuqua would be trying too hard to hew to the 1983 film that they miss the chance to do something new with it. It's The Magnificent Seven all over again. And I would argue that Frank Lucas is pretty much in the mold of Tony Camonte and Tony Montana, except that (as far as I remember) he wasn't using his own product. But he was definitely not entirely buttoned-down; his shell of professionalism belied an impulsive streak. When he caps Elba's character in broad daylight, that's an extremely impulsive act (that worked in his favor, but come on; shooting someone in a crowded street like that is begging for police attention). He also was eager to assassinate Brolin and the other crooked cops before Mama Lucas admonished him for it. He may not be as arch as Pacino's character, but the same rise-and-fall arc is there, except instead of dying in a blaze of gunfire, he cops a plea. If they want to remake Scarface, that's all well and good, but only if they do something entirely new with it, and seeing how I felt about The Magnificent Seven having the opportunity to break fresh ground and deciding not to, I'm not optimistic.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 31, 2018 22:11:15 GMT
Not really. Frank Lucas was used as a metaphor for a capitalist businessman, except his product was hard drugs. The movie version of Frank Lucas was insanely disciplined (Fur Coat aside) in a way neither version of Tony Scarface has ever been. Washington underplayed as Lucas. If Washington does do it and sticks to the previous grand guignol approachs of Pacino and Muni, we could see a seriously batshit crazy performance from him, Dominican accent and all. Would Washington even be pushing to play a Dominican character (I know he does an accent for that interview, but that came off as a riff on Pacino more than anything else, and would that be the tack they would be taking with the new project)? Muni's character was Italian (makes sense, as he was based on Al Capone). As much as I dislike Pacino's film/performance, it makes sense that with the influx of the Caribbean islands into the drug trade of the era, transposing Tony from Italian heritage to Cuban wasn't going to be a hard sell. But my worry would be that Washington/Fuqua would be trying too hard to hew to the 1983 film that they miss the chance to do something new with it. It's The Magnificent Seven all over again. And I would argue that Frank Lucas is pretty much in the mold of Tony Camonte and Tony Montana, except that (as far as I remember) he wasn't using his own product. But he was definitely not entirely buttoned-down; his shell of professionalism belied an impulsive streak. When he caps Elba's character in broad daylight, that's an extremely impulsive act (that worked in his favor, but come on; shooting someone in a crowded street like that is begging for police attention). He also was eager to assassinate Brolin and the other crooked cops before Mama Lucas admonished him for it. He may not be as arch as Pacino's character, but the same rise-and-fall arc is there, except instead of dying in a blaze of gunfire, he cops a plea. If they want to remake Scarface, that's all well and good, but only if they do something entirely new with it, and seeing how I felt about The Magnificent Seven having the opportunity to break fresh ground and deciding not to, I'm not optimistic. Washington did a fairly accurate impersonation of Pacino's Scarface voice ("I always tell the truth, even when I lie") about 10 seconds before he went into his "Dominican". They were noticably different. That was actually a Dominican accent (or a very solid attempt at one). He sounded more like Jeffrey Wright's People's Hernandez from the Shaft remake (which was also a solid version of a real Dominican accent) than whatever accent Pacino was supposed to be doing. And Fuqua has been talking about the Dominican angle in other interviews. He says one of the reasons he wants to do it is to see Washington play a Dominican, so I suspect they've already talked about this role before the interview, and it was not as off-the-cuff as Washington made it seem. Fuqua mentioned something about working an El Chapo type of angle into the story. We'll see. The fact is, it's getting remade whomever is in it....and to be fair, it's the closest thing to Training Day they'll have done since Training Day. Honestly, the film has a high possiblity of being average, but the price of admission for seeing Denzel playing a potentially batshit crazy Dominican accented druglord is something I suspect will get most people amped to see this. To be honest, I feel like casting Washington is likely this movie's biggest trump card (if he were to do it). I just want to see what he does in the role, same way I'm interested in seeing Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker, despite having less faith in Todd Philips with that material, than Fuqua with this material.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jul 31, 2018 22:29:18 GMT
If they want a Cuban, there's Andy Garcia. About Dominican character, I'd let Dominicans judge Washington 's accent. I wonder if Dominicans have a special accent speaking English, because I have Dominican friends whose accent speaking Italian is almost irrelevant.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 31, 2018 23:00:13 GMT
Just to stress again, making him a Dominican doesn't solve the problem - the Cuban angle was inspired, Washington playing a Dominican is not...........but beyond that the 1983 film had an actor/director/star combo that you aren't coming close to replicating - ok fine Washington is a fine, capable actor (not Pacino level capable to me but he's neither the problem nor the answer here).......the key was DePalma - the single most interesting, subversive, idiosyncratic American director in his great '76-83 peak - 3 great films under his belt and he was essentially coming into the project as something he had never done before a gun for hire in a big crime picture.
It is just an unrepeatable mix and you aren't getting that from the director of Equalizer 2.
By the way, as a side note, this is a problem with crime films in general not just for this remake. No one has cared about them for a long time and rightfully so, they are played out. The reason that The Irishman has a potential big upside (if everything else works out) is that its has an up until now unexplored labor union angle that's been missing in American film. Again, it's all about the screenplay for these films and a way in to the material.......
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sirchuck23
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Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
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Post by sirchuck23 on Jul 31, 2018 23:04:10 GMT
Fuqua: You wanna job Denzel?
Denzel: (Looking around nervously and hesitant) Sure Antoine...
Fuqua: Ok then you call me tomorrow
John David: (Gives his father a pat on the back) Hey pops...you gotta a job huh
Denzel: Hey Toine....Thanks! (Takes a swig from a Jack Daniels bottle he kept from the set of Flight)
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sirchuck23
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Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
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Post by sirchuck23 on Jul 31, 2018 23:16:29 GMT
In all seriousness..this could be pretty dope if they put a different spin on it. Denzel doing a Dominican character like Jeffrey Wright did in Shaft would be worth the price of a ticket alone. Plus it seems alot of film fans consider Training Day either his best film or 2nd best film behind Malcolm X, so him and Fuqua going back in that similar vein would be very enticing.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 31, 2018 23:25:17 GMT
Umm...Scarface (DePalma version) isn't a "great" film . It's an insanely quotable and watchable film, but this is not The Godfather or Raging Bull we are talking about (if they tried to remake those, I'd be out there cutting someone myself ). The director of Training Day (if he reaches that level) can potentially make a better movie than the Pacino version. Not saying he will, because he's yet to top Training Day, but it's similar enough material to have some mild optimism. What makes Scarface so watchable (and particularly iconic to rappers and College aged bros) isn't s DePalma's luridly pulpy direction.It's Pacino's demented and extremely quotable performance (courtesy of Oliver Stone's screenplay). Now I consider Washington to be a better actor than Pacino by some distance. The real challenge isn't for Fuqua to make a masterpiece, because the DePalma film isn't one, or anything close to one. It's in Washington (if he did it) trying to go as balls to the wall as Pacino. To match those energy levels and quotability factors. Like Gangs Of New York isn't a "great" film, but Daniel Day-Lewis is giving such a nutso and quotable performance that he's pretty much the reason to watch it. It's the same deal for Pacino and Scarface, and entertaining but highly flawed and at times silly movie. Not saying Washington can top Pacino's turn as Tony Montana, even if he is a better actor. Pacino was in fearless form for that performance and it's one of his signature performances. But the fun (for me anyway) will be in seeing him try. Washington doesn't really coast even when very little is at stake. The fact that he knows he's got to live up to such an iconic turn will be motivation for him to go all-guns blazing to actually make it a question as to whose version is better (and if that happens, that's a victory in itself). It'd be sort of funny if Washington did it and went hard enough on the role to get an Oscar nomination for it. Fuqua isn't an oscar friendly director (Training Day was clearly a one-off), but I could see Washington being motivated enough to do something extremely special with the role.
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Post by stephen on Jul 31, 2018 23:27:45 GMT
Washington did a fairly accurate impersonation of Pacino's Scarface voice ("I always tell the truth, even when I lie") about 10 seconds before he went into his "Dominican". They were noticably different. That was actually a Dominican accent (or a very solid attempt at one). He sounded more like Jeffrey Wright's People's Hernandez from the Shaft remake (which was also a solid version of a real Dominican accent) than whatever accent Pacino was supposed to be doing. And Fuqua has been talking about the Dominican angle in other interviews. He says one of the reasons he wants to do it is to see Washington play a Dominican, so I suspect they've already talked about this role before the interview, and it was not as off-the-cuff as Washington made it seem. Fuqua mentioned something about working an El Chapo type of angle into the story. We'll see. The fact is, it's getting remade whomever is in it....and to be fair, it's the closest thing to Training Day they'll have done since Training Day. Honestly, the film has a high possiblity of being average, but the price of admission for seeing Denzel playing a potentially batshit crazy Dominican accented druglord is something I suspect will get most people amped to see this. To be honest, I feel like casting Washington is likely this movie's biggest trump card (if he were to do it). I just want to see what he does in the role, same way I'm interested in seeing Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker, despite having less faith in Todd Philips with that material, than Fuqua with this material. See, what you're describing about an El Chapo-type and playing toward the current drug culture. . . that's what I wanted from The Magnificent Seven. A cutthroat neo-Western dealing with cartel violence, where off-the-grid DEA agents, former traffickers, and merciless sicario types find themselves on a border town being harangued by a brutal drug lord's regime. It keeps the trappings of the two former incarnations of the story without feeling beholden to either one, and it grants the opportunity to stake its own claim and identity on it. Because Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven are timeless classics and it is a timeless story, and an updated revamp in today's culture would not only feel fresh and vital, you could make a fascinating commentary on the social/political landscape of today. But alas. The Scarface role itself is a plum one for any actor, and there's a lot of things you could probably do with it, and there's a fairly large room for failure. Muni stuck the landing on it, Pacino (in my opinion) didn't. But even I can't deny the '83 film's cultural power and iconography; it became a signature role for an actor who already had a couple under his belt. I have no doubt that Washington would have a lot of fun with it, but I think he more or less did variations on that sort of role already. Frank Lucas, as I said before, has the same basic story. Alonzo Harris is something of the Tony Montana of the LAPD as it is, all the way up to his final moments. I can understand the appeal for Fuqua to want to do this, but he's been going to the remake well more often than not of late, and I just think that a revival of this particular film/character with this duo will just feel like something of a "been there, done that."
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Post by pupdurcs on Jul 31, 2018 23:39:26 GMT
Washington did a fairly accurate impersonation of Pacino's Scarface voice ("I always tell the truth, even when I lie") about 10 seconds before he went into his "Dominican". They were noticably different. That was actually a Dominican accent (or a very solid attempt at one). He sounded more like Jeffrey Wright's People's Hernandez from the Shaft remake (which was also a solid version of a real Dominican accent) than whatever accent Pacino was supposed to be doing. And Fuqua has been talking about the Dominican angle in other interviews. He says one of the reasons he wants to do it is to see Washington play a Dominican, so I suspect they've already talked about this role before the interview, and it was not as off-the-cuff as Washington made it seem. Fuqua mentioned something about working an El Chapo type of angle into the story. We'll see. The fact is, it's getting remade whomever is in it....and to be fair, it's the closest thing to Training Day they'll have done since Training Day. Honestly, the film has a high possiblity of being average, but the price of admission for seeing Denzel playing a potentially batshit crazy Dominican accented druglord is something I suspect will get most people amped to see this. To be honest, I feel like casting Washington is likely this movie's biggest trump card (if he were to do it). I just want to see what he does in the role, same way I'm interested in seeing Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker, despite having less faith in Todd Philips with that material, than Fuqua with this material. See, what you're describing about an El Chapo-type and playing toward the current drug culture. . . that's what I wanted from The Magnificent Seven. A cutthroat neo-Western dealing with cartel violence, where off-the-grid DEA agents, former traffickers, and merciless sicario types find themselves on a border town being harangued by a brutal drug lord's regime. It keeps the trappings of the two former incarnations of the story without feeling beholden to either one, and it grants the opportunity to stake its own claim and identity on it. Because Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven are timeless classics and it is a timeless story, and an updated revamp in today's culture would not only feel fresh and vital, you could make a fascinating commentary on the social/political landscape of today. But alas. The Scarface role itself is a plum one for any actor, and there's a lot of things you could probably do with it, and there's a fairly large room for failure. Muni stuck the landing on it, Pacino (in my opinion) didn't. But even I can't deny the '83 film's cultural power and iconography; it became a signature role for an actor who already had a couple under his belt. I have no doubt that Washington would have a lot of fun with it, but I think he more or less did variations on that sort of role already. Frank Lucas, as I said before, has the same basic story. Alonzo Harris is something of the Tony Montana of the LAPD as it is, all the way up to his final moments. I can understand the appeal for Fuqua to want to do this, but he's been going to the remake well more often than not of late, and I just think that a revival of this particular film/character with this duo will just feel like something of a "been there, done that." I'm glad The Magnificent Seven remake was made. Was it a "great movie" that should win awards? No. But it was an entertaining, well crafted old fashioned oater, which is what Fuqua set out to make. Not everything needs to be a political statement. He wanted to make the action westerns he loved as a child and he did it. The cast had great chemistry, Washington got to show he could make an excellent cowboy (and play Bass Reeves in a potential biopic), and it was just fun time at the movies. I remember you enjoying it at the time it came out in your review when IMDB was still around. Back then I think you understood what Fuqua was trying to make, and accepted it for what it was. Hey, people said Day-Lewis had already played a variation of Daniel Plainview after Bill The Butcher. Didn't stop it from being great, despite any obvious similarities. I would look forward to Washington doing this, even if there are some inherent similarities to Alonzo Harris. And as much as people are trying to downplay it, Denzel doing a thick Dominican accent for this character would add a freshness to any similarities for viewers.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 31, 2018 23:44:19 GMT
Umm...Scarface (DePalma version) isn't a "great" film . It's an insanely quotable and watchable film, but this is not The Godfather or Raging Bull we are talking about (if they tried to remake those, I'd be out there cutting someone myself ). The director of Training Day (if he reaches that level) can potentially make a better movie than the Pacino version. Not saying he will, because he's yet to top Training Day, but it's similar enough material to have some mild optimism. What makes Scarface so watchable (and particularly iconic to rappers and College aged bros) isn't s DePalma's luridly pulpy direction, Pacino's demented and extremely quotable performance (courtesy of Oliver Stone's screenplay). Now I consider Washington to be a better actor than Pacino by some distance. The real challenge isn't for Fuqua to make a masterpiece, because the DePalma film isn't one, or anything close to one. It's in Washington (if he did it) trying to go as balls to the wall as Pacino. To match those energy levels and quotability factors. Like Gangs Of New York isn't a "great" film, but Daniel Day-Lewis is giving such a nutso and quotable performance that he's pretty much the reason to watch it. It's the same deal for Pacino and Scarface, and entertaining but highly flawed and at times silly movie. Not saying Washington can top Pacino's turn as Tony Montana, even if he is a better actor. Pacino was in fearless form for that performance and it's one of his signature performances. But the fun (for me anyway) will be in seeing him try. Washington doesn't really coast even when very little is at stake. The fact that he knows he's got to live up to such an iconic turn will be motivation for him to go all-guns blazing to actually make it a question as to whose version is better (and if that happens, that's a victory in itself). It'd be sort of funny if Washington did it and went hard enough on the role to get an Oscar nomination for it. Fuqua isn't an oscar friendly director (Training Day was clearly a one-off), but I could see Washington being motivated enough to do something extremely special with the role. I consider Scarface to be a great film - one of the 4 from his great period (Carrie, Dressed To Kill, Blow Out are the others). I consider Pacino the better actor obviously but as I said I don't rank that Scarface performance, great as it is in his all time top 10. But to your point I rather strongly consider Scarface to be a DePalma movie far more than a Pacino movie. Well..........again a director/star/writer movie but if I had to pick one............DePalma. The very things I not only love about it, but also that I love about DePalma are what you use as negatives. As I often say - plenty of people make movies they want you to love and plenty of people want to push your buttons to have you hate them..........DePalma was that rare genius in that period who wanted you to love to hate him, or hate to love him........no other American director toyed with his audience and their expectations or their wants as much as him and there are very few filmmakers that have ever checked off all the things that I love about movies more than him in '76-'83.
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Post by stephen on Aug 1, 2018 0:04:07 GMT
I'm glad The Magnificent Seven remake was made. Was it a "great movie" that should win awards? No. But it was an entertaining, well crafted old fashioned oater, which is what Fuqua set out to make. Not everything needs to be a political statement. He wanted to make the action westerns he loved as a child and he did it. The cast had great chemistry, Washington got to show he could make an excellent cowboy (and play Bass Reeves in a potential biopic), and it was just fun time at the movies. I remember you enjoying it at the time it came out in your review when IMDB was still around. Back then I think you understood what Fuqua was trying to make, and accepted it for what it was. Hey, people said Day-Lewis had already played a variation of Daniel Plainview after Bill The Butcher. Didn't stop it from being great, despite any obvious similarities. I would look forward to Washington doing this, even if there are some inherent similarities to Alonzo Harris. And as much as people are trying to downplay it, Denzel doing a thick Dominican accent for this character would add a freshness to any similarities for viewers. I didn't say I didn't like Fuqua's The Magnificent Seven. For what it is, it works and is a perfectly fine slice of shoot-'em-up entertainment. I just get frustrated when I see all the tools are there for the potential to make something dynamic and new, and instead they just go the safe route. Most of that is on me and not being able to get out of my own head, but I'd been daydreaming about a modernized Magnificent Seven for years, and I just think recycling the same basic story in the same arena kind of does a bit of a disservice to Kurosawa's film. But the film itself is a fine way to spend a couple hours.
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Post by quetee on Aug 1, 2018 0:17:26 GMT
Denzel, just say no.
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Post by countjohn on Aug 1, 2018 0:38:35 GMT
I mean, isn't that American Gangster? Was going to post those exact words.
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Post by countjohn on Aug 1, 2018 0:39:06 GMT
To be honest remaking it the first time wasn't even the best idea. Can't top the 30's one.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 1, 2018 4:56:04 GMT
Umm...Scarface (DePalma version) isn't a "great" film . It's an insanely quotable and watchable film, but this is not The Godfather or Raging Bull we are talking about (if they tried to remake those, I'd be out there cutting someone myself ). The director of Training Day (if he reaches that level) can potentially make a better movie than the Pacino version. Not saying he will, because he's yet to top Training Day, but it's similar enough material to have some mild optimism. What makes Scarface so watchable (and particularly iconic to rappers and College aged bros) isn't s DePalma's luridly pulpy direction, Pacino's demented and extremely quotable performance (courtesy of Oliver Stone's screenplay). Now I consider Washington to be a better actor than Pacino by some distance. The real challenge isn't for Fuqua to make a masterpiece, because the DePalma film isn't one, or anything close to one. It's in Washington (if he did it) trying to go as balls to the wall as Pacino. To match those energy levels and quotability factors. Like Gangs Of New York isn't a "great" film, but Daniel Day-Lewis is giving such a nutso and quotable performance that he's pretty much the reason to watch it. It's the same deal for Pacino and Scarface, and entertaining but highly flawed and at times silly movie. Not saying Washington can top Pacino's turn as Tony Montana, even if he is a better actor. Pacino was in fearless form for that performance and it's one of his signature performances. But the fun (for me anyway) will be in seeing him try. Washington doesn't really coast even when very little is at stake. The fact that he knows he's got to live up to such an iconic turn will be motivation for him to go all-guns blazing to actually make it a question as to whose version is better (and if that happens, that's a victory in itself). It'd be sort of funny if Washington did it and went hard enough on the role to get an Oscar nomination for it. Fuqua isn't an oscar friendly director (Training Day was clearly a one-off), but I could see Washington being motivated enough to do something extremely special with the role. I consider Scarface to be a great film - one of the 4 from his great period (Carrie, Dressed To Kill, Blow Out are the others). I consider Pacino the better actor obviously but as I said I don't rank that Scarface performance, great as it is in his all time top 10. But to your point I rather strongly consider Scarface to be a DePalma movie far more than a Pacino movie. Well..........again a director/star/writer movie but if I had to pick one............DePalma. The very things I not only love about it, but also that I love about DePalma are what you use as negatives. As I often say - plenty of people make movies they want you to love and plenty of people want to push your buttons to have you hate them..........DePalma was that rare genius in that period who wanted you to love to hate him, or hate to love him........no other American director toyed with his audience and their expectations or their wants as much as him and there are very few filmmakers that have ever checked off all the things that I love about movies more than him in '76-'83. DePalma has always been an underrated auteur with great technical acumen. I'm a fan, and I feel it's a shame what happened to him once he directed the first very good Mission Impossible film, and basically fell off a cliff. Having said all that, DePalma's directing is the weak link in Scarface. The movie's 2 biggest assets are Pacino and Olivier's Stone's well researched and quotable screenplay. Many of DePalma's choices (like that tacky synth score) instantly date the film. I feel like several directors could have taken that Stone script and Pacino performance and delivered a masterpiece, and not just a very entertaining, OTT amusement ride. Imagine what Scarface could have been if Scorsese or Lumet had gotten ahold of it. I feel Carlito's Way, an elegant and elegiac film is far superior to Scarface as a movie. DePalma seemed to have learned his mistakes from Scarface and made much stronger directing choices for Carlito. Doesn't stop Scarface from being a far more iconic film, but Carlito is the much greater artistic achievement. It's Pacino that makes this film iconic. Not even DePalma's weak choices could undo Pacino's iconoclastic work. Pacino commits to choices that could have undone many other actors. That almost ridiculous, inaccurate Cuban accent that he just sells regardless. The sneers. The clearly deliberate one-dimensionality of Tony's character. It's over-the-top, verging on caricature, but Pacino sells it. I can understand you rating it less than many of his performances, but it's got a visceral appeal to general audiences as a performance that many of his "classier" or more nuanced performances could never come close to matching (and it was before Pacino dipped into this OTT well too many times, and did actually turn into a caricature). When Joe Moviegoer thinks of Pacino, Scarface is arguably the very first thing that comes to mind. Probably even over The Godfather films. Washington would have to make some seriously commited choices himself to compete. Washington could easily give a classier, more nuanced performance as Scarface, but people don't love Tony Montana because it's a classy and nuanced performance. They love it because it's barely one step away from being a caricature, but is massively entertaining because it's in the hands of a skilled actor commiting every step of the way to a fairly simplistic thug. Anyway, I like the notion of Scarface becoming the great role of the crime/gangster genre that actors can play over and over again and usually stand out in (I feel like Doc Holiday holds that status for Westerns, and the Joker holds that status for comic book movies). If Washington becomes the third guy to do it, and it goes over well, Scarface will take that status (people forget, it was arguably Paul Muni's most iconic role before Pacino made it his own), and I can imagine other great actors giving it their own spin in later generations.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 1, 2018 11:10:37 GMT
I will say that to me Scarface isn't dated but rather it captures something I like and often talk about on here, and that is its indicative of its time and of the moment. That's a very important thing to me and very few have it - American films are often set in the past or in the future but very rarely in the right now that actually feels like the right now. For example there's something to be said about if you saw Taxi Driver in 1976 in NYC when you left the theater the world around you looks very much like the movie you just saw...........I love that element so to me the synth score and things like that are perfect touches. In some ways also DePalma was a director like Pacino was an actor - hard to get a handle on, weird or standoff-ish, and both were outside the industry even while in it. For example, the films I mentioned earlier as "great" you may see get just 1 or 2 stars or at least might have initially. In 1983 they were much closer than they are now too - Scarface is just Pacino's 11th film (I think?) and Pacino was at the time a bit outside the industry (0 Oscars as opposed to DeNiro/Nicholson/Hoffman - and it got worse when they all had 2!), a controversy magnet too - is Cruising his "fault" (wtf) as was DePalma - a bigger controversy magnet and no nominations or acclaim in the broader sense as opposed to his friends Coppola/Spielberg/Scorsese/Friedkin etc. So, I think that's part of that particular films magic too - it was the right movie at the right time and made by "outsiders who were insiders" who in a way had to make it like that too - it couldn't have been Lumet and still been that - and of course, Hollywood being a den of vipers pushed them out even further, at least initially. I guess we'll see if this type of talk persists or if Fuqua's film gets a different path and star attached. Honestly I hope somebody says "Ya know, whatever happened to that Othello with Washington and Pacino? - let's do a film version of that!"
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