no
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Post by no on Feb 26, 2017 1:05:47 GMT
You can't ban abortion, only "safe" abortion. It is less problematic to keep it legal and allow women to choose to kill their children.
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Nyx
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Post by Nyx on Feb 26, 2017 2:38:03 GMT
By the third trimester, a preemie should be able to survive - so I can't see a doctor choosing to abort an unborn child that could conceivably survive outside of the womb. Which is why I said only if the mothers life is in danger? My point is, it wouldn't be an abortion...it would be a (possibly very) early delivery. (if the child can survive outside of the womb.)
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Mar 10, 2017 8:20:14 GMT
Feminists would shun me for saying this, but I would be lying if I didn't say it made me uncomfortable after a certain point, particularly after the unborn child has a heartbeat. The argument that it couldn't exist outside the womb at that point is not compelling enough for me.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Mar 11, 2017 2:43:14 GMT
Feminists would shun me for saying this, but I would be lying if I didn't say it made me uncomfortable after a certain point, particularly after the unborn child has a heartbeat. The argument that it couldn't exist outside the womb at that point is not compelling enough for me. I always thought you weren't stupid.
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erickeitel
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Post by erickeitel on Mar 11, 2017 15:15:57 GMT
Legalize in all trimesters. Just because a child has a heart beat doesn't mean the child is being born to parents fit to raise a child. Things can and do go wrong in the late stages of pregnancy; I've heard about children dying shortly after they're born. If there's a risk of that happening, why go through the remaining months? Or, as babak said, the child's birth could threaten the life of a mother. I'd like us to pay more attention about current human rights issues for living adults than fixating over fetuses.
Moreover, if you're against abortion but in favor of restricting immigration, you don't get to use the argument that you're against abortion out of compassion. There are plenty of children who could use a better life. Same if you're in favor of military invasion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 15:49:40 GMT
I'm not fully against immigration, but I think this argument is flawed. The issue is way too nuanced to simplify it like that. If being pro-immigration means your compassionate, what if your immigration policies lead to an onslaught of rapes and murders? (i.e. the current sate of Germany). Then would anti-immigration be the compassionate position? I honestly don't know what the answer is, but I don't think simplifying issues to the "compassionate" position and "non-compassionate" position helps the discussion. This logic also follows for the abortion issue.
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erickeitel
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Post by erickeitel on Mar 11, 2017 15:57:35 GMT
Rape and murder would not be eradicated by restricting or banning immigrants. That would imply that there wouldn't be any otherwise to begin with.
My point is that if you *do* think anti-abortion is compassion, you can't restrict your compassion to what you see is fit. That's not logical.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Mar 11, 2017 16:22:33 GMT
I think the legality of abortions would be much less of an issue if people focused instead on how to minimize abortions, since abortions are still prominent even when they are illegal (they're just much less safe). Proper sex education (and no, abstinence-only sex ed doesn't work), wide access to contraceptives, and funding family planning services. Oh, and direct all of these outreaches especially towards the poor. If the anti-abortion crowd cannot get behind these measures, then their concerns seems less to me to be about any sense of morality than it is just about making peoples' lives more difficult.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 16:56:23 GMT
Rape and murder would not be eradicated by restricting or banning immigrants. That would imply that there wouldn't be any otherwise to begin with. My point is that if you *do* think anti-abortion is compassion, you can't restrict your compassion to what you see is fit. That's not logical. I agree with that. That's why I don't like the "compassion" arguments- they usually lead to inconsistency.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Mar 11, 2017 18:18:20 GMT
Legalize in all trimesters. Just because a child has a heart beat doesn't mean the child is being born to parents fit to raise a child. I'll have to respectfully disagree with all that. The idea of a child developed to the point of their third trimester with a functioning brain, heartbeat, and developed internal systems should have their life ended just because the parents can't be responsible makes me uneasy.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Mar 12, 2017 1:40:45 GMT
Legalize in all trimesters. Just because a child has a heart beat doesn't mean the child is being born to parents fit to raise a child. Things can and do go wrong in the late stages of pregnancy; I've heard about children dying shortly after they're born. If there's a risk of that happening, why go through the remaining months? Or, as babak said, the child's birth could threaten the life of a mother. I'd like us to pay more attention about current human rights issues for living adults than fixating over fetuses. Moreover, if you're against abortion but in favor of restricting immigration, you don't get to use the argument that you're against abortion out of compassion. There are plenty of children who could use a better life. Same if you're in favor of military invasion. Not only are you an absolute moron but you're an unbelievable cunt who clearly has no problem slaughtering an innocent child. Right now I wish there was a Hell so you could enjoy your time there.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Mar 12, 2017 1:57:25 GMT
Legalize in all trimesters. Just because a child has a heart beat doesn't mean the child is being born to parents fit to raise a child. Things can and do go wrong in the late stages of pregnancy; I've heard about children dying shortly after they're born. If there's a risk of that happening, why go through the remaining months? Or, as babak said, the child's birth could threaten the life of a mother. I'd like us to pay more attention about current human rights issues for living adults than fixating over fetuses. Moreover, if you're against abortion but in favor of restricting immigration, you don't get to use the argument that you're against abortion out of compassion. There are plenty of children who could use a better life. Same if you're in favor of military invasion. Not only are you an absolute moron but you're an unbelievable cunt who clearly has no problem slaughtering an innocent child. Right now I wish there was a Hell so you could enjoy your time there. Aren't you a misanthrope? I'm kinda surprised you're showing any sense of empathy here. Warms the heart . Quick question: are you an antinatalist?
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Mar 12, 2017 2:13:36 GMT
Not only are you an absolute moron but you're an unbelievable cunt who clearly has no problem slaughtering an innocent child. Right now I wish there was a Hell so you could enjoy your time there. Aren't you a misanthrope? I'm kinda surprised you're showing any sense of empathy here. Warms the heart . Quick question: are you an antinatalist? I don't like the human species. It's a scourge on this planet but the one group of people who are completely innocent are infants and these fuckers advocate for their slaughter.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 12, 2017 2:31:26 GMT
I usually side with freedom of choice in most cases...... and I get that it's not your business what people you don't know does, but I just never understood why people distinguish a fetus with a living person. A fetus will become a living person. At the moment of conception according to me, you are 1 day old. There's really nothing distinguishing someone who is born vs unborn other than physical appearance and where you are domiciled. I just don't see why a fetus is reduced to the status of sub-human; and why what stage you are in your development cycle really matters in determining what social class of human being you are considered, whether you're 6 months inside your mom's stomach, 6 months old, 6 years old, or 60 years old. It makes no sense to me. A fetus is not a useless dump to be thrown away.
That being said, Planned Parenthood is evil, and I wouldn't shed a tear if terrorists claim a few victims within that organization.
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Mar 12, 2017 3:09:29 GMT
but I just never understood why people distinguish a fetus with a living person. Because they are different things. So different that YOU are doing it now. A fetus will become a living person.
Except when they don't, which is a huge part of the time. Miscarriages alone will take a huge part of it- some studies put in the 20-30% range, depending on how far along they are. Then there's cases when the pregnancy will be ended because it presents risks to the mother's life. Or the child will die shortly after birth and/or have terrible health complications. Or it's rape. Between all of those and abortions for other reasons (legal or illegal, depending where you live), the truth is there's roughly a 50-50% chance of a pregnancy ever coming to term.At the moment of conception according to me, you are 1 day old. So, does that mean that you will throw a 3 month baby a 1st birthday party? Does that mean the Census should count them? Can you get tax benefits from it? Can you get maternity and paternity leave?There's really nothing distinguishing someone who is born vs unborn other than physical appearance and where you are domiciled. Ah...except that YOU ARE distinguishing them- one is born and the other isn't, and there's a decent chance that it will stay that way. One has full development and can survive on it's own, one doesn't. One is in the outside world, the other is attached to an human being.
I just don't see why a fetus is reduced to the status of sub-human; and why what stage you are in your development cycle really matters in determining what social class of human being you are considered, whether you're 6 months inside your mom's stomach, 6 months old, 6 years old, or 60 years old. It makes no sense to me. A fetus is not a useless dump to be thrown away. But you just said that if you are 1 day into a woman's uterus you're already 1 day old and there's no difference between born and unborn- why are you making that distinction again between 6 months old and 6 months inside your mother's uterus? You seem confused.That being said, Planned Parenthood is evil, and I wouldn't shed a tear if terrorists claim a few victims within that organization. Nobody will shed a tear if terrorists come to kill you either...
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 12, 2017 3:29:51 GMT
but I just never understood why people distinguish a fetus with a living person. Because they are different things. So different that YOU are doing it now. A fetus will become a living person.
Except when they don't, which is a huge part of the time. Miscarriages alone will take a huge part of it- some studies put in the 20-30% range, depending on how far along they are. Then there's cases when the pregnancy will be ended because it presents risks to the mother's life. Or the child will die shortly after birth and/or have terrible health complications. Or it's rape. Between all of those and abortions for other reasons (legal or illegal, depending where you live), the truth is there's roughly a 50-50% chance of a pregnancy ever coming to term.At the moment of conception according to me, you are 1 day old. So, does that mean that you will throw a 3 month baby a 1st birthday party? Does that mean the Census should count them? Can you get tax benefits from it? Can you get maternity and paternity leave?There's really nothing distinguishing someone who is born vs unborn other than physical appearance and where you are domiciled. Ah...except that YOU ARE distinguishing them- one is born and the other isn't, and there's a decent chance that it will stay that way. One has full development and can survive on it's own, one doesn't. One is in the outside world, the other is attached to an human being.
I just don't see why a fetus is reduced to the status of sub-human; and why what stage you are in your development cycle really matters in determining what social class of human being you are considered, whether you're 6 months inside your mom's stomach, 6 months old, 6 years old, or 60 years old. It makes no sense to me. A fetus is not a useless dump to be thrown away. But you just said that if you are 1 day into a woman's uterus you're already 1 day old and there's no difference between born and unborn- why are you making that distinction again between 6 months old and 6 months inside your mother's uterus? You seem confused.That being said, Planned Parenthood is evil, and I wouldn't shed a tear if terrorists claim a few victims within that organization. Nobody will shed a tear if terrorists come to kill you either...So what if I'm living? It doesn't make me a different class just because I'm living. Nobody comes out of their mom's ass fully developed. That pre-development stage is the stage where you're a legitimate case to be killed? I don't know where you get that statistic, but I'm going to assume you pulled it from your ass. In other words, it's quite clear you made it up on the spot, so I wouldn't take you seriously. So your only argument is: "they won't necessarily survive." What about the ones that are gonna to survive? and look like you? walk like you? and talk like you? be a total asswipe moron like you? What... again? You're inclined your own way of distinction of course, but to me the only distinction is good people vs bad people, the latter being the category you belong to. I know you probably value only your own life, but that doesn't mean you get to determine other people's. LOL. That you feel inclined to reply with such a thorough rebuttal proves what a true fool you are. You feel passionate about this, buddy? That you have to go so far as to bring up tax credits and a person's ability to receive government benefits is such a far reach you're stretching yourself on. LMAO. At least you didn't make me laugh before, other than with the "nobody would shed a tear about you" comment, but now you're an unintentional comedy show. You really are an argumentative fail, even though you must think you're pretty witty. Pretty witty you came up with that half badass/half one-trick pony argument, right? Your testosterone is turned up rather high though. Well, this is just you trying to be a smartass. I have already found one user here who sucks, and all I have to say is.... f-ck you too, bro.
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erickeitel
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Post by erickeitel on Mar 12, 2017 14:35:11 GMT
Aren't you a misanthrope? I'm kinda surprised you're showing any sense of empathy here. Warms the heart . Quick question: are you an antinatalist? I don't like the human species. It's a scourge on this planet but the one group of people who are completely innocent are infants and these fuckers advocate for their slaughter. That's factually incorrect.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Mar 12, 2017 16:39:49 GMT
That being said, Planned Parenthood is evil, and I wouldn't shed a tear if terrorists claim a few victims within that organization. What a hideously hypocritical and inhumane thing to say. Congratulations, your appreciation for the human life really moves me.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 12, 2017 17:25:51 GMT
That being said, Planned Parenthood is evil, and I wouldn't shed a tear if terrorists claim a few victims within that organization. What a hideously hypocritical and inhumane thing to say. Congratulations, your appreciation for the human life really moves me. There's nothing horrible about that. That you see Planned Parenthood is a modicum of humanity is your mistake.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Mar 12, 2017 17:39:04 GMT
What a hideously hypocritical and inhumane thing to say. Congratulations, your appreciation for the human life really moves me. There's nothing horrible about that. That you see Planned Parenthood is a modicum of humanity is your mistake. Cool. The next time you hear about a terrorist attack, keep in mind that you're no better than that.
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urbanpatrician
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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 12, 2017 17:45:38 GMT
yawn. typical lazy sendoff with no substance.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Mar 12, 2017 17:49:19 GMT
What "substance" do you think "people who work for Planned Parenthood deserve to die" merits? I replied to it with the exact amount that it deserves.
Feel free to actually address what I said, by the way.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Mar 12, 2017 19:50:10 GMT
What "substance" do you think "people who work for Planned Parenthood deserve to die" merits? I replied to it with the exact amount that it deserves. Feel free to actually address what I said, by the way. People who work for Planned Parenthood work in the child murder business so I wouldn't exactly shed a tear for any of them.
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Post by Joaquim on Mar 12, 2017 22:05:07 GMT
That being said, Planned Parenthood is evil, and I wouldn't shed a tear if terrorists claim a few victims within that organization. I hate Planned Parenthood as much as the next person, but no.
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erickeitel
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Post by erickeitel on Mar 12, 2017 23:35:07 GMT
What "substance" do you think "people who work for Planned Parenthood deserve to die" merits? I replied to it with the exact amount that it deserves. Feel free to actually address what I said, by the way. People who work for Planned Parenthood work in the child murder business so I wouldn't exactly shed a tear for any of them. Do you wear clothes from major retailers? Because if you do, you're supporting the child labor industry.
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