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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 23, 2018 21:48:03 GMT
I know that the Oscars list sequels as adapted (on the basis that you are basing the stories on characters or events that have been previously depicted), but I've never really understood that. Based on that reasoning, any biopic or "true story" should be adapted. I feel that if a film is a sequel, it should go into an original category, unless the story itself is based on specific, published material.
And then you get a situation like 10 Cloverfield Lane, which is entirely its own thing until the last ten minutes (which may cause it to miss out on my screenplay lineups, but I doubt it). Should that be listed as original or adapted?
Finally, what of films like Whiplash or Tyrannosaur, which are expansions of previously made short films -- by this I mean that the short films are basically a few minutes from the full length movie that would follow. Should these films be listed as original or adapted? This one is a lot fuzzier in my mind.
Thoughts on each of the above?
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Post by stephen on Feb 24, 2018 2:57:24 GMT
It's tricky. But here's my thoughts: it's original unless based off of a previously published property. Ergo, if it's a biopic, it's technically based off of real events, but really, every story's based in some way on something that happened. So I stick to published works.
As far as sequels go, I tend to look at it this way: if the same creative force was behind them, I stick 'em in original. For example, James Cameron's Terminator 2 is original because it feels like a continuation of the same original story he concocted. But the successive sequels are adapted because someone else came to the story and built on it.
The King's Speech was an adaptation of a play that was not published, so I look at that as a first draft rather than an original source, which Seidler refined to a screenplay.
10 Cloverfield Lane is original. The Cloverfield moniker is largely a marketing tool added after the fact, and has nothing to do with the 2008 film (if memory serves, it wasn't even pitched as a Cloverfield film and only got the title in post).
Whiplash and Tyrannosaur feel like works-in-progress that had shorts that were, in essence, proofs of concept. They were never intended to be full films, and indeed I think Whiplash had a full script that Chazelle had cherrypicked a scene from to make his short. So I deign them both original, because I don't believe Chazelle or Mullan based the feature films off of the shorts themselves, but rather had more of the story to tell and wanted to make a short-form version before tackling the feature-length one.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Feb 24, 2018 17:53:01 GMT
This reminds me of the old Clue (1985) question when it comes to Original or Adapted. I raised a thread on this before on the old board and opinion was pretty split.
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Post by quetee on Feb 24, 2018 18:09:51 GMT
This reminds me of the old Clue (1985) question when it comes to Original or Adapted. I raised a thread on this before on the old board and opinion was pretty split. Clue was adapted. Characters already existed in another medium, they just put them in a different scenario.
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Post by stephen on Feb 24, 2018 18:13:32 GMT
This reminds me of the old Clue (1985) question when it comes to Original or Adapted. I raised a thread on this before on the old board and opinion was pretty split. Clue was adapted. Characters already existed in another medium, they just put them in a different scenario. Indeed. The Clue story existed in some form as the basic "Who killed Mr. Boddy" premise in the game.
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Post by quetee on Feb 24, 2018 18:23:00 GMT
I know that the Oscars list sequels as adapted (on the basis that you are basing the stories on characters or events that have been previously depicted), but I've never really understood that. Based on that reasoning, any biopic or "true story" should be adapted. I feel that if a film is a sequel, it should go into an original category, unless the story itself is based on specific, published material. And then you get a situation like 10 Cloverfield Lane, which is entirely its own thing until the last ten minutes (which may cause it to miss out on my screenplay lineups, but I doubt it). Should that be listed as original or adapted? Finally, what of films like Whiplash or Tyrannosaur, which are expansions of previously made short films -- by this I mean that the short films are basically a few minutes from the full length movie that would follow. Should these films be listed as original or adapted? This one is a lot fuzzier in my mind. Thoughts on each of the above? a biopic based on an already existing source material is adapted. Hamilton musical was based on a book. He used information from that book and structured a musical. Had he just gone on Wikipedia and said, you know what, I'm going to do a play on Hamilton and researched it himself, then you will be able to label it original. Sequels are adapted. They used existing characters and modified the situation. As for Whiplash, same thing. The short came first so it is adapted.
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Post by bob-coppola on Feb 24, 2018 18:43:56 GMT
Sequels are always adapted to me. They're adapting characters from another body of work into a new picture. Biopics are also adapted to me, always. As it's been stated, you're adapting real life events and people into a screenplay. So, something like I, Tonya would be an adapted screenplay even if it isn't based on a biography. 10 Cloverfield Lane to me is an original screenplay. Cloverfield is an anthology series, so the themes are the only aspects that link the movies. Also, it wasn't written as a part of the series, it was an original play with an altered ending. Whiplash and Moonlight are also original screenplays to me. Whiplash was first written as a full-lenght movie, the short was made from a part of the screenplay to pitch the movie. Moonlight was originally a play, but it never got made, so I think of its screenplay as a reworked version of the play, a reworked draft.
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Post by quetee on Feb 24, 2018 18:52:38 GMT
Sequels are always adapted to me. They're adapting characters from another body of work into a new picture. Biopics are also adapted to me, always. As it's been stated, you're adapting real life events and people into a screenplay. So, something like I, Tonya would be an adapted screenplay even if it isn't based on a biography. 10 Cloverfield Lane to me is an original screenplay. Cloverfield is an anthology series, so the themes are the only aspects that link the movies. Also, it wasn't written as a part of the series, it was an original play with an altered ending. Whiplash and Moonlight are also original screenplays to me. Whiplash was first written as a full-lenght movie, the short was made from a part of the screenplay to pitch the movie. Moonlight was originally a play, but it never got made, so I think of its screenplay as a reworked version of the play, a reworked draft. I agree with you on 10 Cloverfield but not with Whiplash and Moonlight. Okay, so Whiplash was first written as a full length movie, so what, it was realized as a movie after the short. Moonlight was based on an unproduced play, true. Was it copyrighted or was it just some draft somewhere. In addition, that play had to be purchased first and they used that story to create the movie. So I believe due to the fact that it already existed in another medium, they went ahead and labeled it adapted. Biopics... nah... Tony's story is public knowledge. It was never dramatized in any medium, so how could it be adapted?
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Post by bob-coppola on Feb 24, 2018 21:08:34 GMT
Sequels are always adapted to me. They're adapting characters from another body of work into a new picture. Biopics are also adapted to me, always. As it's been stated, you're adapting real life events and people into a screenplay. So, something like I, Tonya would be an adapted screenplay even if it isn't based on a biography. 10 Cloverfield Lane to me is an original screenplay. Cloverfield is an anthology series, so the themes are the only aspects that link the movies. Also, it wasn't written as a part of the series, it was an original play with an altered ending. Whiplash and Moonlight are also original screenplays to me. Whiplash was first written as a full-lenght movie, the short was made from a part of the screenplay to pitch the movie. Moonlight was originally a play, but it never got made, so I think of its screenplay as a reworked version of the play, a reworked draft. I agree with you on 10 Cloverfield but not with Whiplash and Moonlight. Okay, so Whiplash was first written as a full length movie, so what, it was realized as a movie after the short. Moonlight was based on an unproduced play, true. Was it copyrighted or was it just some draft somewhere. In addition, that play had to be purchased first and they used that story to create the movie. So I believe due to the fact that it already existed in another medium, they went ahead and labeled it adapted. Biopics... nah... Tony's story is public knowledge. It was never dramatized in any medium, so how could it be adapted? The Moonlight play was written by Berry Jenkins himself, that's why I consider it an original screenplay. As for Whiplash, the only reason why the short was shot in the first place was to pitch the movie, so if anything, the short's screenplay was adapted from the movie's script. I get what you mean when you talk about biopics. They were never dramatized in any medium, but they're pre-existing stories already.
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Post by stephen on Feb 24, 2018 21:12:57 GMT
I agree with you on 10 Cloverfield but not with Whiplash and Moonlight. Okay, so Whiplash was first written as a full length movie, so what, it was realized as a movie after the short. Moonlight was based on an unproduced play, true. Was it copyrighted or was it just some draft somewhere. In addition, that play had to be purchased first and they used that story to create the movie. So I believe due to the fact that it already existed in another medium, they went ahead and labeled it adapted. Biopics... nah... Tony's story is public knowledge. It was never dramatized in any medium, so how could it be adapted? The Moonlight play was written by Berry Jenkins himself, that's why I consider it an original screenplay. As for Whiplash, the only reason why the short was shot in the first place was to pitch the movie, so if anything, the short's screenplay was adapted from the movie's script. I get what you mean when you talk about biopics. They were never dramatized in any medium, but they're pre-existing stories already. No, it wasn't. It was Tarell Alvin McCraney.
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Post by bob-coppola on Feb 24, 2018 21:29:00 GMT
The Moonlight play was written by Berry Jenkins himself, that's why I consider it an original screenplay. As for Whiplash, the only reason why the short was shot in the first place was to pitch the movie, so if anything, the short's screenplay was adapted from the movie's script. I get what you mean when you talk about biopics. They were never dramatized in any medium, but they're pre-existing stories already. No, it wasn't. It was Tarell Alvin McCraney. I could swear it was Jenkins'. Well, in this case, it certainly is an adapted work.
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Post by stephen on Feb 24, 2018 21:30:26 GMT
No, it wasn't. It was Tarell Alvin McCraney. I could swear it was Jenkins'. Well, in this case, it certainly is an adapted work. McCraney worked on the adaptation as well, to the point that you could argue that it's just another writer coming on to do a pass when Jenkins did it. For instance, Bridge of Spies was a Matt Charman script, but then the Coens came on and rewrote it, and they were all credited for it as an original screenplay.
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Post by quetee on Feb 24, 2018 21:38:03 GMT
I agree with you on 10 Cloverfield but not with Whiplash and Moonlight. Okay, so Whiplash was first written as a full length movie, so what, it was realized as a movie after the short. Moonlight was based on an unproduced play, true. Was it copyrighted or was it just some draft somewhere. In addition, that play had to be purchased first and they used that story to create the movie. So I believe due to the fact that it already existed in another medium, they went ahead and labeled it adapted. Biopics... nah... Tony's story is public knowledge. It was never dramatized in any medium, so how could it be adapted? The Moonlight play was written by Berry Jenkins himself, that's why I consider it an original screenplay. As for Whiplash, the only reason why the short was shot in the first place was to pitch the movie, so if anything, the short's screenplay was adapted from the movie's script. I get what you mean when you talk about biopics. They were never dramatized in any medium, but they're pre-existing stories already. Doesn't work that way. He filmed the short first and then decided to make a movie based on that short. It already existed. He adapted it by making modifications to it. As for biopics... I understand your point but they are more along the lines of factual events. So how can you say they are adapted stories if they have not been realized in any other medium? Where has Tonya's story been told? I've seen it in countless magazine articles, but the screenwriter did not use any of the articles for his screenplay. He talked to Tonya and asked her side of the story. When has her side in any other medium besides Tonya working the talk show circuit been dramatized or realized as a story?
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Feb 24, 2018 21:53:46 GMT
I'm generally cool with sequels being considered adapted. It's using previously established characters, themes, or scenarios. The Cloverfield films complicate this a bit since the films do take place in the same universe and have some connections with one another despite the fact the subsequent films started off as original screenplays, so I'm fine with them being categorized either way although I'd probably place them in Adapted since their connections, however tenuous, to Cloverfield do influence my watching of it (I think 10 Cloverfield Lane would have actually been stronger without that title since its ties to the earlier film make it apparent what is going on outside the cellar). The Kill Bill series is also a notable exception; since they were filmed as a single project from one large screenplay and only split apart in editing, I consider Vol. 2 Original.
As for Whiplash, I'd consider it Original since the short itself was actually an adaptation of 15 pages of an already completed script meant to pitch the film (the Saw guys did a similar thing and I'd also consider that film Original). As for Tyrannosaur, correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression the film was an expansion of the short rather than the short being a chopped off piece of a script, so I'd rule that as Adapted.
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Post by quetee on Feb 24, 2018 22:14:13 GMT
I'm generally cool with sequels being considered adapted. It's using previously established characters, themes, or scenarios. The Cloverfield films complicate this a bit since the films do take place in the same universe and have some connections with one another despite the fact the subsequent films started off as original screenplays, so I'm fine with them being categorized either way although I'd probably place them in Adapted since their connections, however tenuous, to Cloverfield do influence my watching of it (I think 10 Cloverfield Lane would have actually been stronger without that title since its ties to the earlier film make it apparent what is going on outside the cellar). The Kill Bill series is also a notable exception; since they were filmed as a single project from one large screenplay and only split apart in editing, I consider Vol. 2 Original. As for Whiplash, I'd consider it Original since the short itself was actually an adaptation of 15 pages of an already completed script meant to pitch the film (the Saw guys did a similar thing and I'd also consider that film Original). As for Tyrannosaur, correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression the film was an expansion of the short rather than the short being a chopped off piece of a script, so I'd rule that as Adapted. Had Whiplash the short not been entered into competition and just used as a reel to get funded then I'm sure it would have been considered original.
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 25, 2018 2:21:49 GMT
I'm generally cool with sequels being considered adapted. It's using previously established characters, themes, or scenarios. The Cloverfield films complicate this a bit since the films do take place in the same universe and have some connections with one another despite the fact the subsequent films started off as original screenplays, so I'm fine with them being categorized either way although I'd probably place them in Adapted since their connections, however tenuous, to Cloverfield do influence my watching of it (I think 10 Cloverfield Lane would have actually been stronger without that title since its ties to the earlier film make it apparent what is going on outside the cellar). The Kill Bill series is also a notable exception; since they were filmed as a single project from one large screenplay and only split apart in editing, I consider Vol. 2 Original. As for Whiplash, I'd consider it Original since the short itself was actually an adaptation of 15 pages of an already completed script meant to pitch the film (the Saw guys did a similar thing and I'd also consider that film Original). As for Tyrannosaur, correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression the film was an expansion of the short rather than the short being a chopped off piece of a script, so I'd rule that as Adapted. Having seen Dog Altogether (the source of Tyrannosaur), it is most certainly its own story. Tyrannosaur uses the exact same script, but continues past the point where Dog Altogether ended. In short, everyone's opinions on this are totally split. So in the future, I suggest an original/adapted thread in the same way we have lead/supporting.
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jakob
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Post by jakob on Mar 3, 2018 21:46:47 GMT
I still don’t understand Fox’s logic in campaigning X-Men: Days of Future Past as an Original Screenplay. Not only was it based on the X-Men characters, as well as it being a sequel to five other movies, but it was also literally adapted.. from the comic... “Days Of Future Past”.
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