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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 20, 2018 21:59:17 GMT
@martin Stett I suppose most people buy guns for sports and shooting at targets. I seriously doubt people buying automatic guns all want to shoot at humans. In that case, I honestly believe that the guns should not be kept at home. It's that simple. Use these for sports, and leave them at the venue. I'm considering getting into shooting myself (it looks like loads of fun), but I'd be happy to let the sporting venues keep the most dangerous weaponry if it meant that nuts couldn't get their hands on the stuff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 22:03:57 GMT
@martin Stett I suppose most people buy guns for sports and shooting at targets. I seriously doubt people buying automatic guns all want to shoot at humans. In that case, I honestly believe that the guns should not be kept at home. It's that simple. Use these for sports, and leave them at the venue. I'm considering getting into shooting myself (it looks like loads of fun), but I'd be happy to let the sporting venues keep the most dangerous weaponry if it meant that nuts couldn't get their hands on the stuff. And what about people that keep a gun in their house for security and self-defense purposes? sorry if you've already addressed this I haven't read through the whole thread
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 20, 2018 22:16:37 GMT
In that case, I honestly believe that the guns should not be kept at home. It's that simple. Use these for sports, and leave them at the venue. I'm considering getting into shooting myself (it looks like loads of fun), but I'd be happy to let the sporting venues keep the most dangerous weaponry if it meant that nuts couldn't get their hands on the stuff. And what about people that keep a gun in their house for security and self-defense purposes? sorry if you've already addressed this I haven't read through the whole thread In response to Cherry saying that cars can just as easily kill people, I said this: "My thinking is that cars are used to get around, and you factor in the use vs. risk factor of it. With semi-automatic, easily concealable weaponry, the only point is to kill people. Oh sure, you can use them to defend yourself (theoretically), but the risk of someone using the weapon is far higher than the use granted by it. How often are people owning guns going around shooting people in a good cause?" I know that there is no easy answer, I'm just trying to throw something out there. I understand why you would keep a gun in your home for self defense, truly I do. But the risk of someone using those weapons to murder people (in places where they cannot keep guns, such as schools or government facilities) is higher than the use of keeping a weapon in house in case you should need it.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 20, 2018 22:35:48 GMT
Shouldn't we be asking why this happens in public vs private schools? Do private schools have child shrinks or what. Need to get to the root of the problem. 2nd says you may own gun, so be it. However, why do we need to have that type of guns? In addition congress needs to be put on blast in regards to mental health. They obviously live in a bubble. I take public transportation to work ( la) and I come across so many mental health cases that there is no way those people have a gun. Public school kids - school shooters/ghetto trash Private school kids - white collar criminals/potential future Ted Bundys
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 22:53:37 GMT
Who cares if the majority of people want it? The US is not a democracy. Also I've been to enough countries to know that socialised healthcare is absolutely terrible. All the Brits ever do is complain that there's not enough money for the NHS. The Canadians too. As for the US, healthcare is not a free market there and that's why I'm critical of it.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Feb 20, 2018 22:56:54 GMT
Brilliant argument, you sure schooled all of us simpletons with your astute political insight. You have the depth of a teaspoon. Also you didn't answer my question. What was the original intent of the 2nd Amendment? I figured my previous response to you had already made it clear enough that I have no interest in spending time debating anything with you. I don't care to listen to what you have to say.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 22:58:04 GMT
You said if they banned guns then the deaths would go down. I think the logical conclusion to that is the government coming in and taking all the guns. It would bring the death count down. Would a ‘revolution’ from the American people occur where they remove the lawmakers that made this possible? Most likely. Would a civil war happen? No. Which is why I’m for stricter gun laws, like majority of the Americans people and majority of gun owners are, but not an outright ban as freedom is worth the price of paying. That statement is pointless then. You've effectively just said if they ban guns then the people will overthrow the lawmakers and guns won't be banned. So you're back to square one. A civil war could absolutely happen if most of the army stays with the government. Also nobody here seems to come up with any form of legislation that would help yet you keep saying strict gun laws. What's the point of freedom is you constrict gun sales so much that it's impossible for the average citizens to have a gun.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Feb 20, 2018 23:01:23 GMT
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Post by quetee on Feb 20, 2018 23:02:01 GMT
Shouldn't we be asking why this happens in public vs private schools? Do private schools have child shrinks or what. Need to get to the root of the problem. 2nd says you may own gun, so be it. However, why do we need to have that type of guns? In addition congress needs to be put on blast in regards to mental health. They obviously live in a bubble. I take public transportation to work ( la) and I come across so many mental health cases that there is no way those people have a gun. Public school kids - school shooters/ghetto trash Private school kids - white collar criminals/potential future Ted Bundys right. So steve jobs was ghetto trash?as well as Buffett and bezos? Doubtful. Willing to bet a good number of ceo's of top 500 went to public school. Try again...
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 23:02:05 GMT
Then what's your solution? What laws would you implement that also doesn't infringe on the 2nd Amendment? Well, for instance, I've read that there's a law (approved by President Reagan) that obliges all licensed gun sellers to ask information to the FBI about a potential buyer before the actual selling takes place. However, private deals and selllings in gun exhibitions are not covered by this (or any?) law. Perhaps they could start by discussing that. Try to put yourself in the place of one of those parents who lost their kids because some lunatic went on a rampage at their schools, killing every person in his way. Try to understand how they feel. How would you feel? The gun shows always have conflicting reports about how regulated it is so I'm not gonna make a comment on it. As for your second comment. How many people get killed because of drunk drivers (kids included)? Are you gonna ban alcohol again or ban cars because of some misplaced sense of empathy. You don't make laws based on feelings. You make laws based on rights.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 23:04:09 GMT
Also you didn't answer my question. What was the original intent of the 2nd Amendment? I figured my previous response to you had already made it clear enough that I have no interest in spending time debating anything with you. I don't care to listen to what you have to say. Translation: You don't like the facts and you're running away like a little girl.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 23:08:51 GMT
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Feb 20, 2018 23:14:30 GMT
I figured my previous response to you had already made it clear enough that I have no interest in spending time debating anything with you. I don't care to listen to what you have to say. Translation: You don't like the facts and you're running away like a little girl. You can call it whatever makes you feel good, I really don't care.
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Post by Sharbs on Feb 20, 2018 23:17:49 GMT
Well, for instance, I've read that there's a law (approved by President Reagan) that obliges all licensed gun sellers to ask information to the FBI about a potential buyer before the actual selling takes place. However, private deals and selllings in gun exhibitions are not covered by this (or any?) law. Perhaps they could start by discussing that. Try to put yourself in the place of one of those parents who lost their kids because some lunatic went on a rampage at their schools, killing every person in his way. Try to understand how they feel. How would you feel? The gun shows always have conflicting reports about how regulated it is so I'm not gonna make a comment on it. As for your second comment. How many people get killed because of drunk drivers (kids included)? Are you gonna ban alcohol again or ban cars because of some misplaced sense of empathy. You don't make laws based on feelings. You make laws based on rights.Why is this an argument? Alcohol was made to get drunk; cars were made for transportation Guns were made for.....killing
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 23:33:06 GMT
Translation: You don't like the facts and you're running away like a little girl. You can call it whatever makes you feel good, I really don't care. Yes you do Sunshine.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 23:35:49 GMT
The gun shows always have conflicting reports about how regulated it is so I'm not gonna make a comment on it. As for your second comment. How many people get killed because of drunk drivers (kids included)? Are you gonna ban alcohol again or ban cars because of some misplaced sense of empathy. You don't make laws based on feelings. You make laws based on rights.Why is this an argument? Alcohol was made to get drunk; cars were made for transportation Guns were made for.....killing Yes killing the enemy that might be trying to kill you. If you depend on the state to protect you then you're little more than a child. And the cars and alcohol are argument because they kill more people than guns do.
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Feb 21, 2018 0:00:05 GMT
Having virtually no control for sales of guns, like the US does, is pure insanity and unacceptable to any serious person.
Mind you, having a system that nearly bans legal sales of guns is no guarantee of decreasing gun violence (Brazil is the prime example of this) and is possible to have a system that allows people to have access to guns and still have a peaceful and stable country (Switzerland is the best example), but allowing 19-year-olds to buy AR-15 is just pure stupidity.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 21, 2018 0:06:23 GMT
Who cares if the majority of people want it? The US is not a democracy. Also I've been to enough countries to know that socialised healthcare is absolutely terrible. All the Brits ever do is complain that there's not enough money for the NHS. The Canadians too. As for the US, healthcare is not a free market there and that's why I'm critical of it. Dude, I live in a country with socialized healthcare. Don’t lie about people constantly complaining about it, especially when compared to Americas. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than Americas. Poll every Canadian if they would rather have socialized healthcare or a healthcare system like Americas, and I guarantee you that over 85% of people here will say they’d rather have the system that we have implemented right now. So don’t make statements that aren’t true. I live in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada, and even the vast majority of people here criticize Americas healthcare and is the main reason why they wouldn’t want to move there. If majority of the people want a new system, clearly they aren’t happy about the system that they have right now and obviously there’s a growing concern about it if more and more people want a federally funded system. All of the studies from health organizations disagree with you. They know more about it than you. www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians-overwhelmingly-support-public-health-care/Wow, Canadians seem so unhappy about their system.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 21, 2018 0:13:34 GMT
Who cares if the majority of people want it? The US is not a democracy. Also I've been to enough countries to know that socialised healthcare is absolutely terrible. All the Brits ever do is complain that there's not enough money for the NHS. The Canadians too. As for the US, healthcare is not a free market there and that's why I'm critical of it. Dude, I live in a country with socialized healthcare. Don’t lie about people constantly complaining about it, especially when compared to Americas. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than Americas. Poll every Canadian if they would rather have socialized healthcare or a healthcare system like Americas, and I guarantee you that over 85% of people here will say they’d rather have the system that we have implemented right now. So don’t make statements that aren’t true. I live in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada, and even the vast majority of people here criticize Americas healthcare and is the main reason why they wouldn’t want to move there. If majority of the people want a new system, clearly they aren’t happy about the system that they have right now and obviously there’s a growing concern about it if more and more people want a federally funded system. All of the studies from health organizations disagree with you. They know more about it than you. www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians-overwhelmingly-support-public-health-care/Wow, Canadians seem so unhappy about their system. Yes and I have Canadian cousins who complain about it so I'm not lying Sunshine. As for that poll, of course people are stupid enough to believe that they're getting free healthcare (spoiler warning!! They're not) so they would support it but do you honestly believe that medical care in the UK and Canada is better than it is in the US. As for the studies, clearly they're bullshit and they're viewing it through a lense of how many people are covered.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 21, 2018 0:15:37 GMT
It would bring the death count down. Would a ‘revolution’ from the American people occur where they remove the lawmakers that made this possible? Most likely. Would a civil war happen? No. Which is why I’m for stricter gun laws, like majority of the Americans people and majority of gun owners are, but not an outright ban as freedom is worth the price of paying. That statement is pointless then. You've effectively just said if they ban guns then the people will overthrow the lawmakers and guns won't be banned. So you're back to square one. A civil war could absolutely happen if most of the army stays with the government. Also nobody here seems to come up with any form of legislation that would help yet you keep saying strict gun laws. What's the point of freedom is you constrict gun sales so much that it's impossible for the average citizens to have a gun. I’ve said what to do countless times in this thread? Implement universal background checks and make them stricter, ban high capacity magazines, make it harder for mentally ill people to buy guns, ban bump stocks, etc. Even majority of the people on the right and majority of gun owners will agree with these things.
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Post by quetee on Feb 21, 2018 0:23:38 GMT
Who cares if the majority of people want it? The US is not a democracy. Also I've been to enough countries to know that socialised healthcare is absolutely terrible. All the Brits ever do is complain that there's not enough money for the NHS. The Canadians too. As for the US, healthcare is not a free market there and that's why I'm critical of it. Dude, I live in a country with socialized healthcare. Don’t lie about people constantly complaining about it, especially when compared to Americas. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than Americas. Poll every Canadian if they would rather have socialized healthcare or a healthcare system like Americas, and I guarantee you that over 85% of people here will say they’d rather have the system that we have implemented right now. So don’t make statements that aren’t true. I live in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada, and even the vast majority of people here criticize Americas healthcare and is the main reason why they wouldn’t want to move there. If majority of the people want a new system, clearly they aren’t happy about the system that they have right now and obviously there’s a growing concern about it if more and more people want a federally funded system. All of the studies from health organizations disagree with you. They know more about it than you. www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians-overwhelmingly-support-public-health-care/Wow, Canadians seem so unhappy about their system. you make a very good point that a majority of these politicians seem to forget: they work for the people and represent us rather than his/her own special interests. We need to get rid of lobbyists.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 21, 2018 0:26:07 GMT
Dude, I live in a country with socialized healthcare. Don’t lie about people constantly complaining about it, especially when compared to Americas. It’s not perfect, but it’s better than Americas. Poll every Canadian if they would rather have socialized healthcare or a healthcare system like Americas, and I guarantee you that over 85% of people here will say they’d rather have the system that we have implemented right now. So don’t make statements that aren’t true. I live in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada, and even the vast majority of people here criticize Americas healthcare and is the main reason why they wouldn’t want to move there. If majority of the people want a new system, clearly they aren’t happy about the system that they have right now and obviously there’s a growing concern about it if more and more people want a federally funded system. All of the studies from health organizations disagree with you. They know more about it than you. www.healthcare-now.org/blog/new-poll-shows-canadians-overwhelmingly-support-public-health-care/Wow, Canadians seem so unhappy about their system. Yes and I have Canadian cousins who complain about it so I'm not lying Sunshine. As for that poll, of course people are stupid enough to believe that they're getting free healthcare (spoiler warning!! They're not) so they would support it but do you honestly believe that medical care in the UK and Canada is better than it is in the US. As for the studies, clearly they're bullshit and they're viewing it through a lense of how many people are covered. That’s priceless. You have three cousins that complain about the healthcare system in their country. Wow. I didn’t think three people could speak for the whole country and you could get a whole analysis done on just their opinions. I know 100’s of people here that disagree. I also have polls to prove it, unlike you sunshine. You don’t have anything to back up what you’re saying. And yes, I do. It feels great walking out of a surgery or the doctors office and not paying a dime. I had a surgery a few months ago that would’ve costed me 50k in America. It feels great to not have over 40,000 people dying every year in my country because they don’t have coverage. It feels great to not have medical debt as our #1 reason for bankruptcy. Again, virtually every study from HEALTH ORGANIZATIONS agree with me. The studies analyze a multitude of things, not just people that are covered. You’d know that if you read the articles that I linked for you, which you clearly didn’t. Calling them bullshit is not an argument.
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forksforest
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Post by forksforest on Feb 21, 2018 3:46:52 GMT
Welp, the Florida House vote (36-71) just goes to show that the gun culture in America is unshakeable. There's really no point in having this debate every time another shooting comes along. Best just to become de-sensitized to it--if Americans don't even care to reform their fucked up gun laws, why should any one else.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 21, 2018 4:16:52 GMT
Public school kids - school shooters/ghetto trash Private school kids - white collar criminals/potential future Ted Bundys right. So steve jobs was ghetto trash?as well as Buffett and bezos? Doubtful. Willing to bet a good number of ceo's of top 500 went to public school. Try again... Doesn’t mean there are exceptions. Jesus, get your head out of the gutter.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 21, 2018 4:19:13 GMT
Welp, the Florida House vote (36-71) just goes to show that the gun culture in America is unshakeable. There's really no point in having this debate every time another shooting comes along. Best just to become de-sensitized to it--if Americans don't even care to reform their fucked up gun laws, why should any one else. I’m so proud of my state legislature!
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