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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 8, 2018 23:09:06 GMT
I haven't seen I, Tonya but I remember being very surprised that it was done in the way it was done - funny, satiric. The trailer kind of took me back.
It made me think of To Die For, a heavy real life story done that way (quite good)........in some cases in film history it was been a huge artistic triumph - think Dr. Strangelove .......... or the reverse a funny story done somberly or too straight forwardly would apply too.
Actually nowadays I see the comic element more - sort of Goodfellas inspired stuff (American Made, War Dogs).
What are some you can think of where you thought - this is being played wrong?
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Post by stephen on Jan 8, 2018 23:12:21 GMT
American Gangster and The Place Beyond the Pines, I am convinced, could have been modern crime classics and possible successors to The Godfather (if in scope, if not in stature) had they been two films. The former should have been released with the first film about Lucas's rise (and maybe not even have Roberts as anything more than a minor background character) and the second about Roberts's pursuit and Lucas's ultimate downfall. With Pines, the first film should've been entirely about the fathers and the second about their sons. But in compressing the stories, it saps them of their power and potential.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 8, 2018 23:23:41 GMT
How about Che? Sort of the reverse there, though it's worth seeing, where I felt like Soderbergh didn't take a really focus into whittling that story down and it felt too long to me in how it was done.
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Post by FrancescoAbides on Jan 8, 2018 23:24:21 GMT
I, Tonya could have been something like Foxcatcher Gangs of New York should have been something other than a "revenge movie"
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Post by stephen on Jan 8, 2018 23:26:55 GMT
I, Tonya could have been something like FoxcatcherGangs of New York should have been something other than a "revenge movie" Oh fuck, I have spoken at length many a time about how Gangs of New York should've been a film about a son torn between two fathers, rather than a simple revenge plot.
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Post by stephen on Jan 8, 2018 23:27:30 GMT
How about Che? Sort of the reverse there, though it's worth seeing, where I felt like Soderbergh didn't take a really focus into whittling that story down and it felt too long to me in how it was done. I think Che is fine as it is, but I suppose I could see some tightening here and there.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jan 8, 2018 23:34:06 GMT
I, Tonya was the first thing I thought too.
I would've preferred it be a sort of media satire on the world of paparazzi and instead it was like a pop music fast times type of flick. 1994 was smack in the middle of the age of paparazzi, and go back and watch those videos of the Harding/Kerrigan feud and you tell me it wasn't like paparazzi how they were portrayed by the media.
In that case, I trust Scorsese could do that well, because when we thought he was all done, he ended up doing The Wolf of Wall Street - which was kinda like a lifestyle satire.
And I'd argue Shame too. It could be a nihilistic trip, but of course I can't expect Steve McQueen to understand Roman-era hedonism. He doesn't even have to change the setting, just make the whole thing symbolic. I know McQueen makes the types of movies he makes, but still.... this is how I saw his film essentially. Like some Noe/Satyricon but could pass as more mainstream accessible.
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Post by idioticbunny on Jan 8, 2018 23:41:28 GMT
I just saw I, Tonya and considering how much I've talked about how crappy I thought this year was, it was the first film since Blade Runner 2049 to even make a dent in my line-ups. It's my #10 of the year, and while the style is very much like Goodfellas, I wouldn't say there's humor to it. Some people might find it funny (if they're awful people I guess), but I think the way it handles the abuse in the film still makes you hate Stan's and Janney's characters without the need for Precious-type moments. It's a film basically shown through Tonya Harding's eyes, so for her the abuse is just another day in the life (as sad as that is/was). That being said, I'm sure the story itself could have worked as a super serious Bennett Miller-style film, too, but as is I had no qualms.
I also thought War Dogs was pretty underrated as well and aside from maybe one or two moments, there was very little humor in the film (that I thought anyway). It actually takes itself pretty seriously while remaining entertaining (think more like Lord of War).
The most recent example I can think of is The Greatest Showman. It had the potential to be a pretty inspiring, if factually untrue and totally made-for-Hollywood cheese, but the choice to do modern pop songs while trying to maintain this "essence" of taking place in the 1800s felt so fucking off, which managed to surpass Alien: Covenant as my second least favorite film of the year. Had they merely changed the style of music to something more suitable for that time period (hell, just call Justin Hurwitz for more classic-Hollywood-age musical numbers) or changed the style of the film itself so it worked with the style of music, it would've been a solid 5/10 at least. Then again, the film has so many more problems beyond the music, but the music itself pretty much ruined the film as a whole for me.
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Post by FrancescoAbides on Jan 8, 2018 23:45:57 GMT
I, Tonya could have been something like FoxcatcherGangs of New York should have been something other than a "revenge movie" Oh fuck, I have spoken at length many a time about how Gangs of New York should've been a film about a son torn between two fathers, rather than a simple revenge plot. Shit, that would have been brilliant, especially in terms of character development. I mean, for fuck sake Martin Scorsese, it's your passion project and you only come up with that revenge plot? I kinda wanna blame Kenneth Lonergan for some reason.
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Post by stephen on Jan 8, 2018 23:48:22 GMT
Oh fuck, I have spoken at length many a time about how Gangs of New York should've been a film about a son torn between two fathers, rather than a simple revenge plot. Shit, that would have been brilliant, especially in terms of character development. I mean, for fuck sake Martin Scorsese, it's your passion project and you only come up with that revenge plot? I kinda wanna blame Kenneth Lonergan for some reason. I find blaming Kenneth Lonergan for all things is good for the soul.
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Post by finniussnrub on Jan 9, 2018 0:02:21 GMT
Recently Passengers which should have been a psychological thriller instead of a horribly misguided sci-fi romance.
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Post by FrancescoAbides on Jan 9, 2018 0:08:10 GMT
Recently Passengers which should have been a psychological thriller instead of a horribly misguided sci-fi romance. I agree. I don't know if you've seen this video yet, but there are some interesting points.
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Post by Film Socialism on Jan 9, 2018 9:04:37 GMT
i think most jesus adaptations are at least somewhat flawed in their approach and could benefit from at least a slightly different angle, which is the opposite of how i feel about joan of arc films
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Post by no on Jan 9, 2018 16:30:17 GMT
I second Catrician but we may prefer different directions and I'd broaden this to most religious/biblical films in general. Godard's Hail Mary definitely could have been way better.
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Post by no on Jan 9, 2018 16:45:40 GMT
Super heroes are conceptually and thematically great but recent films (and comics) suggest the complete opposite, even ones I moderately enjoyed on the most superficial levels. Nobody since Raimi has really understood the thematic and philosophical complexity of secret identities and the potential that it can have for mainstream cinema. Snyder and Nolan each made one great superhero movie, and Mangold pulled off a pretty good one and while I can't say they take the right approach consistently, they at least try to bring something thematically compelling to the table. Marvel's recent cinematic universe is so safe and dull to me and not capitalizing off identity psychology is completely the wrong way to go. These movies also suffer from flat cinematography, awful color correction, and the most cookie cutter score ever. Come on, they have the resources, do something with them.
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Post by Zeb31 on Jan 9, 2018 20:17:14 GMT
Seconding all the Passengers talk, and the video in particular. Flipping the order of the first two acts would've been a much better approach to take. Also on the topic of misjudged gender dynamics, I don't think many will have seen this because I've hardly heard any talk at all about it after Cannes, but Michel Hazanavicius made so, so many glaring mistakes in writing and directing Le Redoutable that I think it warrants a mention here. If you're gonna take Anne Wiazemsky's memoir about her relationship with Godard and make a romantic comedy about it, then don't open it with a narration from your lead actress that sets it up as being about her and told from her perspective only to have her stand in the background and do absolutely nothing for the following 90+ minutes with the exception of a handful of montages here and there where she takes her clothes off and gets licked by the camera. (Watching this is like getting hit in the face a hundred times with a printed out copy of this article.) The non-stop pastiche of Godard/Nouvelle Vague tropes and the character assassination pissed a lot of cinephiles off, so many would tell you that everything was wrong about Hazanavicius' approach from the get-go, but honestly it was the way that he completely tossed Stacy Martin aside to make it revolve 100% around Godard (and his unbearable ego) that truly rubbed me the wrong way. Either focus on her character or stop pretending it's an adaptation of her memoir.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 9, 2018 23:02:21 GMT
The Revenant should have been a barebones survival film (think All Is Lost in the wilderness), not a naval-gazing video essay about spiritual suffering. If there was to be any spiritual significance in the film, it should have been gleaned organically according to viewers' dispositions, not forced down their throats.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 9, 2018 23:12:02 GMT
How about "Fur" - the fictionalized Diane Arbus movie with Kidman and Downey - I hated that movie. Like her real (fascinating) life wasn't enough for your movie you had to construct a lie to "illustrate" it.
Grrrrrrr
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Post by Miles Morales on Jan 10, 2018 9:24:32 GMT
Batman v. Superman should've been strictly about the Batman-Superman conflict with slight philosophical leanings instead of whatever the hell it was trying to be.
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Post by Allenism on Jan 10, 2018 18:07:23 GMT
I think Black Swan would've been more successful if it went full-tilt into horror. Apparently earlier drafts of the script were much more macabre. I realize that would've alienated the Academy, though...it's still a bit surprising how well it fared with mainstream awards bodies.
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Post by stephen on Jan 10, 2018 18:13:25 GMT
I think Black Swan would've been more successful if it went full-tilt into horror. Apparently earlier drafts of the script were much more macabre. I realize that would've alienated the Academy, though...it's still a bit surprising how well it fared with mainstream awards bodies. I think that's kind of the case with every Aronofsky movie. The premises are generally promising on paper, but the execution almost always falters.
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Post by Allenism on Jan 10, 2018 18:48:59 GMT
I think Black Swan would've been more successful if it went full-tilt into horror. Apparently earlier drafts of the script were much more macabre. I realize that would've alienated the Academy, though...it's still a bit surprising how well it fared with mainstream awards bodies. I think that's kind of the case with every Aronofsky movie. The premises are generally promising on paper, but the execution almost always falters. I agree, but considering what he pulled off in mother! I'd be curious to know if his true vision for BS was stymied by studio execs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 19:40:55 GMT
Suburbicon. If they took out the racism subplot and actually made it a revenge thriller like it was advertised...maybe it wouldn't be a good movie per se, but at the very least it could have been a moderately entertaining dark comedy with its own commentary on society that doesn't already weigh the film down.
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Post by stephen on Jan 10, 2018 19:43:20 GMT
I think that's kind of the case with every Aronofsky movie. The premises are generally promising on paper, but the execution almost always falters. I agree, but considering what he pulled off in mother! I'd be curious to know if his true vision for BS was stymied by studio execs. From what I recall of the script that had been circulating a year or so before the film had been released, there wasn't that much readily different (although I think there might've been a bit more of the Barbara Hershey stuff added into the finished product). I think it's just that Aronofsky is just a very surface-level filmmaker who goes through the motions of being deep and people kind of buy into it. He's basically the cinematic equivalent of the guy who runs that "Chupacabra in a jar" exhibit at the circus. You pay ten bucks, get shoved through a tent, get half a glimpse of something twisted and distorted, and you come out rationalizing the amount of money you spent by telling yourself it was worth it.
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Post by wallsofjericho on Jan 10, 2018 20:01:20 GMT
The Firm (1993). They should have followed it closer to the book.
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