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Post by PromNightCarrie on Dec 5, 2017 18:21:00 GMT
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Post by Viced on Dec 5, 2017 18:34:36 GMT
I think Oliver kept it going too long... it seemed like he was trying too hard not to be satisfied with literally everything Hoffman said. Watching De Niro and Rosenthal just sit there awkwardly in between them is my favorite part.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Dec 5, 2017 19:12:05 GMT
That was pretty intense . And De Niro looked uncomfortable as hell He's just sitting there like a statue .
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forksforest
Junior Member
Quit your shit-spitting
Posts: 492
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Post by forksforest on Dec 5, 2017 20:24:22 GMT
awksss
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Dec 5, 2017 23:06:05 GMT
Well, now that I have a minute, my thoughts are that I think there was a big clash here because Hoffman was coming from the point-of-view where that behavior was so commonplace in his world back in the 70s and 80s that he's confused by the fact that it's suddenly made into a big deal now. He sees it as an overreaction. And Oliver was coming from a place where he felt Hoffman wasn't taking enough accountability (and to be fair, he did seem insincere about his statement) and that the time or period shouldn't excuse it.
Well, I think Hoffman's being truthful about not knowing the girl was as young as 17 and it being common for crew members to tell each other sexual jokes. The groping to me at any period is way too far though. But I will say that this discussion raises an interesting point (and I'm not talking about the true predator extremes like Harvey Weinsteins or Pill Cosby, so don't get me confused), which is that men in power so normalized this pinch-the-secretary-on-the-butt behavior that certain things may not have been a big deal at all to THEM, but they didn't consider the effect it had on the women.
oh and I loved watching Grandpa De Niro in that clip.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Dec 5, 2017 23:14:57 GMT
Well, now that I have a minute, my thoughts are that I think there was a big clash here because Hoffman was coming from the point-of-view where that behavior was so commonplace in his world back in the 70s and 80s that he's confused by the fact that it's suddenly made into a big deal now. He sees it as an overreaction. And Oliver was coming from a place where he felt Hoffman wasn't taking enough accountability (and to be fair, he did seem insincere about his statement) and that the time or period shouldn't excuse it. Well, I think Hoffman's being truthful about not knowing the girl was as young as 17 and it being common for crew members to tell each other sexual jokes. The groping to me at any period is way too far though. But I will say that this discussion raises an interesting point (and I'm not talking about the true predator extremes like Harvey Weinsteins or Pill Cosby, so don't get me confused), which is that men in power so normalized this pinch-the-secretary-on-the-butt behavior that certain things may not have been a big deal at all to THEM, but they didn't consider the effect it had on the women. oh and I loved watching Grandpa De Niro in that clip.
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Post by Martin Stett on Dec 5, 2017 23:23:25 GMT
Dear Dustin Hoffman:
That is all.
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Post by quetee on Dec 5, 2017 23:31:32 GMT
Imo, if you were not atleast an adult during that period,how can you properly judge that time period. I still can't believe people used to drink at work.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Dec 5, 2017 23:50:49 GMT
Imo, if you were not atleast an adult during that period,how can you properly judge that time period. I still can't believe people used to drink at work. But if a woman from that time period was genuinely hurt by certain actions, even back then, is her pain any less valid because it happened at a different time? Remember, back then, it was probably even more detrimental to speak up. I'm not saying hang every man who ever told a sexual joke in the workplace back in the 80s, but I think it is interesting how what seems inconsequential to one person in an inappropriate interaction can be extremely hurtful for the other person long-term. And that first person may never know... well, until the other person writes an article today about it.
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 6, 2017 0:01:52 GMT
DeNiro is hilarious here, he is possibly thinking about The Irishman........or when he did the 20 year Heat retrospective and people just talked about the movie. Good times that was......
Hoffman is not articulating his POV very well and does come off a bit tone deaf and defensive but..........
John Oliver (who I do like) is being a class A smug dick here who took that conversation utterly away from the other artists who made Wag the Dog for that discourse, just invite Hoffman on your show then, that I'd like to see, but this was unnecessarily excruciating. I mean maybe you should have passed on hosting the event - I know it's a thing now to say people need to confront this, there is "no wrong time"........but it sure seemed like the wrong time to me.
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Post by stephen on Dec 6, 2017 0:09:17 GMT
I'm of two minds here. I think Oliver was absolutely right on about calling out Hoffman, but I think it would've been far much effective if he'd thrown it out there and, instead of doggedly pursuing it, just let it hang over the proceedings and carry on as normal. There's really nothing that Hoffman could say to plausibly defend himself, but the situation (which is indeed worthy of discussion, especially now) winds up becoming an awkward spectacle, as De Niro and Rosenthal are forced to have to endure being caught in the middle of it and Oliver starts to become more and more needling when it's clear Hoffman is going to be obstinate.
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Post by FrancescoAbides on Dec 6, 2017 0:28:01 GMT
Holy shit, that was awkward as hell LMAAAO Interesting discussion though
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Dec 6, 2017 0:57:17 GMT
I met Signourney Weaver. She said, 'hi I'm Sigourney' and I said, 'hi, I'm Harold'.
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Post by DanQuixote on Dec 7, 2017 0:07:15 GMT
DeNiro is hilarious here, he is possibly thinking about The Irishman........or when he did the 20 year Heat retrospective and people just talked about the movie. Good times that was...... Hoffman is not articulating his POV very well and does come off a bit tone deaf and defensive but.......... John Oliver (who I do like) is being a class A smug dick here who took that conversation utterly away from the other artists who made Wag the Dog for that discourse, just invite Hoffman on your show then, that I'd like to see, but this was unnecessarily excruciating. I mean maybe you should have passed on hosting the event - I know it's a thing now to say people need to confront this, there is "no wrong time"........but it sure seemed like the wrong time to me. I think holding men accountable for their actions for the first time, like ever, is more important than discussing Wag the Dog.
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 7, 2017 2:17:20 GMT
DeNiro is hilarious here, he is possibly thinking about The Irishman........or when he did the 20 year Heat retrospective and people just talked about the movie. Good times that was...... Hoffman is not articulating his POV very well and does come off a bit tone deaf and defensive but.......... John Oliver (who I do like) is being a class A smug dick here who took that conversation utterly away from the other artists who made Wag the Dog for that discourse, just invite Hoffman on your show then, that I'd like to see, but this was unnecessarily excruciating. I mean maybe you should have passed on hosting the event - I know it's a thing now to say people need to confront this, there is "no wrong time"........but it sure seemed like the wrong time to me. I think holding men accountable for their actions for the first time, like ever, is more important than discussing Wag the Dog. I suppose that depends if you really feel "holding men accountable for the actions" was what Oliver was doing.......I really don't.
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Post by Viced on Dec 7, 2017 2:23:24 GMT
DeNiro is hilarious here, he is possibly thinking about The Irishman........or when he did the 20 year Heat retrospective and people just talked about the movie. Good times that was...... Hoffman is not articulating his POV very well and does come off a bit tone deaf and defensive but.......... John Oliver (who I do like) is being a class A smug dick here who took that conversation utterly away from the other artists who made Wag the Dog for that discourse, just invite Hoffman on your show then, that I'd like to see, but this was unnecessarily excruciating. I mean maybe you should have passed on hosting the event - I know it's a thing now to say people need to confront this, there is "no wrong time"........but it sure seemed like the wrong time to me. I think holding men accountable for their actions for the first time, like ever, is more important than discussing Wag the Dog. There is literally nothing more important than discussing Wag the Dog when you're at a 20th anniversary screening of Wag the Dog.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Dec 8, 2017 18:34:01 GMT
I think Oliver kept it going too long... it seemed like he was trying too hard not to be satisfied with literally everything Hoffman said. Watching De Niro and Rosenthal just sit there awkwardly in between them is my favorite part. Just to clarify something, I know it's not clear from that video, but the reports were saying that Oliver had moved on from that discussion, and they were discussing the movie, but then Hoffman himself brought it back to that.
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Film Socialism
Based
99.9999% of rock is crap
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Post by Film Socialism on Dec 11, 2017 20:14:30 GMT
john oliver has the most punchable face i swear
and i don't like the people hes with here either
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Post by quetee on Dec 11, 2017 20:35:07 GMT
Imo, if you were not atleast an adult during that period,how can you properly judge that time period. I still can't believe people used to drink at work. But if a woman from that time period was genuinely hurt by certain actions, even back then, is her pain any less valid because it happened at a different time? Remember, back then, it was probably even more detrimental to speak up. I'm not saying hang every man who ever told a sexual joke in the workplace back in the 80s, but I think it is interesting how what seems inconsequential to one person in an inappropriate interaction can be extremely hurtful for the other person long-term. And that first person may never know... well, until the other person writes an article today about it. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's pain. My point was, what was the social climate at that time. In 2002, or whatever year it was, people gave Adrian Brody a pass for grabbing halle berry and shoving his tongue down her throat. If she goes on twitter right now and goes #me too and says he should be expelled from academy, would that be okay? She clearly didn't expect or ask for that attention.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Dec 11, 2017 21:10:04 GMT
But if a woman from that time period was genuinely hurt by certain actions, even back then, is her pain any less valid because it happened at a different time? Remember, back then, it was probably even more detrimental to speak up. I'm not saying hang every man who ever told a sexual joke in the workplace back in the 80s, but I think it is interesting how what seems inconsequential to one person in an inappropriate interaction can be extremely hurtful for the other person long-term. And that first person may never know... well, until the other person writes an article today about it. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's pain. My point was, what was the social climate at that time. In 2002, or whatever year it was, people gave Adrian Brody a pass for grabbing halle berry and shoving his tongue down her throat. If she goes on twitter right now and goes #me too and says he should be expelled from academy, would that be okay? She clearly didn't expect or ask for that attention. Then my question to that is where is the line where we stop giving people passes because "that was the social climate at the time"? There were a lot of horrible things that occurred racially that were considered commonplace back then, but would be unacceptable today. I'm not handing out passes because that was the social climate either. Wrong is wrong. For me, a man groping a woman's breasts without her permission is wrong, and I see it as wrong in both 1984 and 2017.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Dec 12, 2017 15:43:48 GMT
I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's pain. My point was, what was the social climate at that time. In 2002, or whatever year it was, people gave Adrian Brody a pass for grabbing halle berry and shoving his tongue down her throat. If she goes on twitter right now and goes #me too and says he should be expelled from academy, would that be okay? She clearly didn't expect or ask for that attention. Then my question to that is where is the line where we stop giving people passes because "that was the social climate at the time"? There were a lot of horrible things that occurred racially that were considered commonplace back then, but would be unacceptable today. I'm not handing out passes because that was the social climate either. Wrong is wrong. For me, a man groping a woman's breasts without her permission is wrong, and I see it as wrong in both 1984 and 2017.***THANK YOU !***
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Dec 12, 2017 17:35:43 GMT
I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's pain. My point was, what was the social climate at that time. In 2002, or whatever year it was, people gave Adrian Brody a pass for grabbing halle berry and shoving his tongue down her throat. If she goes on twitter right now and goes #me too and says he should be expelled from academy, would that be okay? She clearly didn't expect or ask for that attention. Then my question to that is where is the line where we stop giving people passes because "that was the social climate at the time"? There were a lot of horrible things that occurred racially that were considered commonplace back then, but would be unacceptable today. I'm not handing out passes because that was the social climate either. Wrong is wrong. For me, a man groping a woman's breasts without her permission is wrong, and I see it as wrong in both 1984 and 2017. Pity you ignored her point about Brody/Berry, which is an excellent, difficult question in this environment & one that will likely come up in the near future (not saying necessarily that situation, but a similar one) & instead went with the kneejerk & "crowdpleasing" response of "no excuses, it's always wrong", which is completely missing the point of her more interesting question.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Dec 13, 2017 1:44:34 GMT
Then my question to that is where is the line where we stop giving people passes because "that was the social climate at the time"? There were a lot of horrible things that occurred racially that were considered commonplace back then, but would be unacceptable today. I'm not handing out passes because that was the social climate either. Wrong is wrong. For me, a man groping a woman's breasts without her permission is wrong, and I see it as wrong in both 1984 and 2017. Pity you ignored her point about Brody/Berry, which is an excellent, difficult question in this environment & one that will likely come up in the near future (not saying necessarily that situation, but a similar one) & instead went with the kneejerk & "crowdpleasing" response of "no excuses, it's always wrong", which is completely missing the point of her more interesting question. Because the Brody/Berry example was deviating from the argument which had to do with how to judge behavior that happened at a time when we were not around, so maybe you've missed the point of the discussion. She said "Imo, if you were not atleast an adult during that period,how can you properly judge that time period." That's what I was responding to. We were around for Brody and Berry in 2003. Now that example is interesting, but for a separate, broader discussion. My concern was about where is the line where we stop giving people like Dustin Hoffman passes because certain sexist actions were more commonplace in the 70s and 80s. Look, I'm not for hanging someone for making a sexist joke back in 1983. But I think it's okay for me to judge Dustin Hoffman as someone who was a douchebag for grabbing Meryl Streep's breasts in the 70s, even if I wasn't even born yet.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Dec 15, 2017 5:08:39 GMT
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Dec 15, 2017 9:09:53 GMT
This is so effing gross ! What a freakin' perverted industry ! Shame on you , Mr Hoffman
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