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Post by stephen on Nov 26, 2017 20:43:46 GMT
So creepy indeed. I'm a big true-crime buff, and details like that always keep me up at night. Shit, have you read about EAR/ONS? That was the case Patton Oswalt's wife was obsessed over, and she was finishing a book on him when she died. It's one of the most terrifying cases out there, and it's still unsolved. Definitely shades of BTK there. I hadn't, but I just read a little about it. It's crazy that the person was never caught, even with all the DNA evidence. Scary stuff. Have you read about Dean Corll? That story was interesting to me because he was somehow able to get two teenaged boys to assist him in these horrible murders (for $200 wtf?), and eventually, one of those boys finally killed him to put an end to it all. Yeah, the story of Dean Corll and Elmer Wayne Henley is a really unsettling tale. Would make a fascinating film. Of course, when it comes to unmade cinematic portrayals of serial murderers, the Cleveland Torso Murderer is still my #1 pick.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Nov 26, 2017 20:52:44 GMT
I hadn't, but I just read a little about it. It's crazy that the person was never caught, even with all the DNA evidence. Scary stuff. Have you read about Dean Corll? That story was interesting to me because he was somehow able to get two teenaged boys to assist him in these horrible murders (for $200 wtf?), and eventually, one of those boys finally killed him to put an end to it all. Yeah, the story of Dean Corll and Elmer Wayne Henley is a really unsettling tale. Would make a fascinating film. Of course, when it comes to unmade cinematic portrayals of serial murderers, the Cleveland Torso Murderer is still my #1 pick. From the Cleveland Torso Murderer's Wikipedia entry: "At one point in time, the killer even taunted Ness by placing the remains of two victims in full view of his office in city hall."
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Post by stephen on Nov 26, 2017 20:55:29 GMT
Yeah, the story of Dean Corll and Elmer Wayne Henley is a really unsettling tale. Would make a fascinating film. Of course, when it comes to unmade cinematic portrayals of serial murderers, the Cleveland Torso Murderer is still my #1 pick. From the Cleveland Torso Murderer's Wikipedia entry: "At one point in time, the killer even taunted Ness by placing the remains of two victims in full view of his office in city hall." There is a brilliant and terrifying graphic novel about Ness's pursuit of the Mad Butcher called Torso that, quite frankly, would put Zodiac to shame if done correctly. In fact, Fincher was attached to do it for years but it fell through. David Lowery currently is attached. But you should absolutely give it a read. Haunting stuff. Then read James Jessen Badal's superb In the Wake of the Butcher, which is for my money the best true-crime novel ever written. Yeah, suck it, Truman Capote.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Nov 26, 2017 21:00:27 GMT
From the Cleveland Torso Murderer's Wikipedia entry: "At one point in time, the killer even taunted Ness by placing the remains of two victims in full view of his office in city hall." There is a brilliant and terrifying graphic novel about Ness's pursuit of the Mad Butcher called Torso that, quite frankly, would put Zodiac to shame if done correctly. In fact, Fincher was attached to do it for years but it fell through. David Lowery currently is attached. But you should absolutely give it a read. Haunting stuff. Then read James Jessen Badal's superb In the Wake of the Butcher, which is for my money the best true-crime novel ever written. Yeah, suck it, Truman Capote. Thanks! I'm fascinated by true crime stories too, so I could use some good recommendations.
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Post by stephen on Nov 26, 2017 21:03:41 GMT
There is a brilliant and terrifying graphic novel about Ness's pursuit of the Mad Butcher called Torso that, quite frankly, would put Zodiac to shame if done correctly. In fact, Fincher was attached to do it for years but it fell through. David Lowery currently is attached. But you should absolutely give it a read. Haunting stuff. Then read James Jessen Badal's superb In the Wake of the Butcher, which is for my money the best true-crime novel ever written. Yeah, suck it, Truman Capote. Thanks! I'm fascinated by true crime stories too, so I could use some good recommendations. Think of Torso as the American take on From Hell: a fictionalized take on real events. But the true story as purported in Badal's book (and his excellent follow-up, Murder Has No Tongue, about the man who was framed for the case and who died mysteriously in jail) is nevertheless insanely cinematic. My dream adaptation would be for a fusion between the two, with the general look and aesthetic of The Black Dahlia (though sadly, Zsigmond's no longer with us).
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Nov 28, 2017 2:07:42 GMT
Just finished it and I'm already sad that it's over and that I have to wait for season 2. This is a show where you watch the first few episodes, you think maybe something's missing or it's a bit too slow. But once you've finished the entire season and you can look back on it as a completed puzzle, you realize it was a nicely paced slow burn that sparks up towards the end. My favorite episode was episode 9. I didn't even know that David Fincher directed the last two episodes until I just checked to see who did because those two clearly stood out above the rest to me. Lo and behold, Fincher directed them. I wasn't in love with the first couple of episodes that he directed when I initially saw them, but boy did he give us an excellent finish.
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Post by ibbi on Nov 28, 2017 9:41:27 GMT
Just finished it and I'm already sad that it's over and that I have to wait for season 2. This is a show where you watch the first few episodes, you think maybe something's missing or it's a bit too slow. But once you've finished the entire season and you can look back on it as a completed puzzle, you realize it was a nicely paced slow burn that sparks up towards the end. My favorite episode was episode 9. I didn't even know that David Fincher directed the last two episodes until I just checked to see who did because those two clearly stood out above the rest to me. Lo and behold, Fincher directed them. I wasn't in love with the first couple of episodes that he directed when I initially saw them, but boy did he give us an excellent finish. Yes, those last couple of episodes were really great. I think 5 and 9 were my favourites. I had a few niiiiiiiggly little issues with the finale, but I think the last scene saved the whole thing. Bumps it up at least a point or two regardless of whatever has happened.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Nov 28, 2017 15:57:23 GMT
Just finished it and I'm already sad that it's over and that I have to wait for season 2. This is a show where you watch the first few episodes, you think maybe something's missing or it's a bit too slow. But once you've finished the entire season and you can look back on it as a completed puzzle, you realize it was a nicely paced slow burn that sparks up towards the end. My favorite episode was episode 9. I didn't even know that David Fincher directed the last two episodes until I just checked to see who did because those two clearly stood out above the rest to me. Lo and behold, Fincher directed them. I wasn't in love with the first couple of episodes that he directed when I initially saw them, but boy did he give us an excellent finish. Yes, those last couple of episodes were really great. I think 5 and 9 were my favourites. I had a few niiiiiiiggly little issues with the finale, but I think the last scene saved the whole thing. Bumps it up at least a point or two regardless of whatever has happened. Episode 5 is the one about the Beverly Jean murders, right? That was definitely one of the best episodes. I particularly liked that actress who kind of looks like Carol Burnett after a meth binge. She was really good.
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Post by stephen on Nov 28, 2017 16:08:01 GMT
Just finished it and I'm already sad that it's over and that I have to wait for season 2. This is a show where you watch the first few episodes, you think maybe something's missing or it's a bit too slow. But once you've finished the entire season and you can look back on it as a completed puzzle, you realize it was a nicely paced slow burn that sparks up towards the end. My favorite episode was episode 9. I didn't even know that David Fincher directed the last two episodes until I just checked to see who did because those two clearly stood out above the rest to me. Lo and behold, Fincher directed them. I wasn't in love with the first couple of episodes that he directed when I initially saw them, but boy did he give us an excellent finish. You're not even gonna mention the best subplot: the foot-ticklin' principal?
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Post by ibbi on Nov 28, 2017 16:13:52 GMT
Just finished it and I'm already sad that it's over and that I have to wait for season 2. This is a show where you watch the first few episodes, you think maybe something's missing or it's a bit too slow. But once you've finished the entire season and you can look back on it as a completed puzzle, you realize it was a nicely paced slow burn that sparks up towards the end. My favorite episode was episode 9. I didn't even know that David Fincher directed the last two episodes until I just checked to see who did because those two clearly stood out above the rest to me. Lo and behold, Fincher directed them. I wasn't in love with the first couple of episodes that he directed when I initially saw them, but boy did he give us an excellent finish. You're not even gonna mention the best subplot: the foot-ticklin' principal? Man, that scene with his wife! Outstanding stuff!
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Post by stephen on Nov 28, 2017 16:19:21 GMT
You're not even gonna mention the best subplot: the foot-ticklin' principal? Man, that scene with his wife! Outstanding stuff! Especially as, on paper, it would be so bloody ludicrous. But for the first time, I felt riveted by something in the Groff character's personal life.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Nov 28, 2017 17:03:49 GMT
Just finished it and I'm already sad that it's over and that I have to wait for season 2. This is a show where you watch the first few episodes, you think maybe something's missing or it's a bit too slow. But once you've finished the entire season and you can look back on it as a completed puzzle, you realize it was a nicely paced slow burn that sparks up towards the end. My favorite episode was episode 9. I didn't even know that David Fincher directed the last two episodes until I just checked to see who did because those two clearly stood out above the rest to me. Lo and behold, Fincher directed them. I wasn't in love with the first couple of episodes that he directed when I initially saw them, but boy did he give us an excellent finish. You're not even gonna mention the best subplot: the foot-ticklin' principal? Well, I didn't want to get too specific on here and have to spoiler tag my whole post. But now that you mention it, that was a good example of a subplot that works. And the capper was the brief shot of the principal looking run-down outside of the convenience store and then Groff actually looking like he felt a bit guilty. That was practically Mad Men-level of smart, dramatic writing right there, don't you think?
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Post by stephen on Nov 28, 2017 17:17:17 GMT
You're not even gonna mention the best subplot: the foot-ticklin' principal? Well, I didn't want to get too specific on here and have to spoiler tag my whole post. But now that you mention it, that was a good example of a subplot that works. And the capper was the brief shot of the principal looking run-down outside of the convenience store and then Groff actually looking like he felt a bit guilty. That was practically Mad Men-level of smart, dramatic writing right there, don't you think? Very smart, and far more than what I'd expect from a David Fincher joint, to be honest. I find him such a surface-level filmmaker, who can make things look good but who actually is far more hollow than people realize. I chalk that up more to Joe Penhall than anything else, of course. They have said that Season 2 will explore the Atlanta child murders, but I'm hoping we see Gacy as well.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Nov 28, 2017 22:16:40 GMT
Well, I didn't want to get too specific on here and have to spoiler tag my whole post. But now that you mention it, that was a good example of a subplot that works. And the capper was the brief shot of the principal looking run-down outside of the convenience store and then Groff actually looking like he felt a bit guilty. That was practically Mad Men-level of smart, dramatic writing right there, don't you think? Very smart, and far more than what I'd expect from a David Fincher joint, to be honest. I find him such a surface-level filmmaker, who can make things look good but who actually is far more hollow than people realize. I chalk that up more to Joe Penhall than anything else, of course. They have said that Season 2 will explore the Atlanta child murders, but I'm hoping we see Gacy as well. Yeah for that, you have to give credit to the writers. Fincher was impressive from a directorial standpoint, however. It'll be interesting to see how they handle the Atlanta child murders since I detected a little racism from Groff's character. BTW they should have hired that qualified black man over that dicey church boy they went with. Now, look what happened. Do you think the show will be bold enough to have them interview Berkowitz or Manson next season though? They were mentioned to be on the wish list.
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Post by notacrook on Jan 16, 2018 23:15:04 GMT
Fiiinally finished this today. Ended up really liking it after being totally underwhelmed by episode 1. Loved McCallany, Torv and Britton. Groff improved as the season progressed, though the character was constantly problematic for me and his scenes with his girlfriend almost always felt like a drag on the other far more interesting stuff. Still, once it hit its stride around halfway through I was completely hooked and found it frequently disturbing in the best way. 8.5/10
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Jan 16, 2018 23:26:40 GMT
I want to give this a go... but I fear it'll be more Criminal Minds than Zodiac.
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Post by Viced on Jan 17, 2018 3:37:50 GMT
I want to give this a go... but I fear it'll be more Criminal Minds than Zodiac. bruh, Fincher directed almost half of the first season... it ain't Criminal Minds.
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Post by Mattsby on Apr 19, 2018 18:59:59 GMT
More info about S2 here via The Playlist. Dominik is the really interesting get this season, he's never worked in tv. Also that Fincher does all the reshoots himself; I heard they were extensive for S1. (Fincher is very hands on, a perfectionist, which is a good thing. But to me this takes up way too much of his time (several years) when he should be doing feature films or at least directing every ep.)
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Post by Viced on Aug 31, 2018 0:17:05 GMT
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 26, 2019 18:24:18 GMT
so i'm watching now and Jonathan Groff sounds spookily similar to Zachary Quinto.
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LaraQ
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Post by LaraQ on Jan 26, 2019 18:41:22 GMT
so i'm watching now and Jonathan Groff sounds spookily similar to Zachary Quinto. Those two used to date btw.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 26, 2019 19:05:12 GMT
so i'm watching now and Jonathan Groff sounds spookily similar to Zachary Quinto. Those two used to date btw.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 27, 2019 7:19:14 GMT
ehhhh I have really mixed feelings about this. I binged it over the last couple days and while it was mostly enjoyable is didn't build to a satisfying conclusion at all.
Firstly, Holden Ford. I don't like him. He starts the season a wide-eyed conceited asshole and ends the season a cynical conceited asshole. The sideplot involving his relationship with Debbie was entirely filler. I think it was meant to directly express his transformation over the season but I didn't see much of a change in him at all. Groff's role here is challenging and I think he got what he was going for with this straight-laced, reptilian and socially awkward aficionado of criminal deviant psychology, but...he's not that fun to watch. I don't enjoy Holden Ford as a protagonist. And maybe it's just because the character is supposed to awkward but I couldn't sense any chemistry at all between him and Hannah Gross. It was worst in their first scenes (their dialogue at the bar was super-cringey) and got slightly better as the show went on, but I was never invested in that aspect of the story.
Secondly, while the show definitely looks like Zodiac for the most part (this isn't no Criminal Minds bullshit) and it nails the interview scenes, it strangely feels much smaller-scale despite the total running time of the combined episodes. This is my running issue with most TV shows, because they have more time to fill they more easily fall into the trap of wasting time. While some of them contain so much story that they couldn't possibly contain everything neatly into a 120-140 minute film (Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones), many I've watched or tried to watch seem to pad out their runtime with nonessential filler (see: The Terror) in lieu of laying out a concise narrative. There are several plot threads in this season that go nowhere, the worst offender being Holden's relationship with Debbie which of course ends with a melodramatic breakup because he's too invested in his work (definitely didn't see that coming a mile away). And then there's also Bill's troubles with his son, the foot-tickling principal, Wendy's lover / sexual orientation, Wendy leaving food for that cat in the AC vent (which has a nice little disturbing punchline but the payoff isn't worthwhile). So the season has elements of Zodiac's straightforward take on procedural investigation with a keen eye for rigorous detail just with A LOT more filler and a lot less detail. It's based on a nonfiction book but with all it's narrative bunny-trailing and editorializing and melodramaticizing it doesn't give the impression of that. The season is too unfocused and simultaneously too contained. There's so much here that doesn't add up to anything. And there's also some stuff that flat-out out doesn't make sense, like who the hell though it was a good idea to have Jonathan "I Like Serial Killers" Groff teach a classroom full of grade-schoolers about deviant psychology. Fire that person.
I'd probably give it a 7 or something.
God I'm tired of TV doing this to me. I get watching a show and it's enjoyable and I binge it, and then it just leaves me high and dry and disappointed. I can count on two hands the shows that broke that pattern and Mindhunter ain't one of them.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 27, 2019 7:30:04 GMT
oh yeah and all that stuff with the ADT Serviceman...yeah that stuff was dumb. Show all this footage and then build up to nothing. I don't know maybe it was just a cheap bit of serial killer fan service but it added absolutely nothing to the season and I hated it. Thankfully it didn't take too much screentime but...yeesh. What a waste of time.
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Post by Viced on Jul 12, 2019 18:36:41 GMT
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