SZilla
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Post by SZilla on Feb 1, 2023 15:23:39 GMT
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is an organization that grows less interesting each year, but for whatever reason it fascinates me and I can't help but be slightly invested in each year's nominees/inductees. Anyway, the 2023 Nominees are: Cyndi Lauper Joy Division/New Order The White Stripes * The White Stripes are on some level the last Great Rock Band even though to me they only made 2 great records (Elephant and especially White Blood Cells) - I mean I don't think that........... I like plenty of bands after them and more than them too ......but at their level of success and at their best artistry being in the pattern of "Rock and Blues"............ they differ even in how you think of them as The Strokes and Spoon............... They are so in. * Cyndi Lauper will get in - eventually - because all women get in - Joan Jett is in ffs and I like her and all but she can't write or play guitar that well, Pat Benatar is in ffs- every "big selling" female act is in except Courtney Love.........um..........well and The Bangles........meanwhile I'm the only one who would put The Pandoras in for "Stop Pretending" ftw * Joy Division is of course one of the most important - and best - Rock bands ever.......and certainly of their era ........and while for New Order I'm not THAT much of a fan, I really don't understand how the Small Faces / Faces combo (love 'em) got in and you leave JD / NO out in terms of originality, influence, cultural legacy in this specific configuration.......obviously in.......or should be ........ Yeah, Joy Division is my favorite band, so I'm biased, but I honestly think they're definitely one of THE most influential acts not yet in. Combine that with New Order's legacy and it should be a bonafide induction, but I'm still not holding my breath. The White Stripes are definitely in. Like you said, I think Jack White is maybe the last mainstream household name "Rock Star" and that goes a long way. Cyndi's worthy in my opinion. I wasn't alive in the '80s, but she (both her music and her iconography) does seem to be one of the defining artists from that decade. I have no qualms with her getting in. I think this year is the year to get Kate Bush in too, thanks to the Stranger Things exposure that gave her a revitalization. With Dolly going in last year, I think Willie's probably a good bet too. I don't love the idea of pure country acts getting in under the performers category, but now it is what it is. Time to start predicting Garth Brooks as a future nominee too.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 3, 2023 19:34:27 GMT
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SZilla
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Post by SZilla on May 3, 2023 23:58:34 GMT
Happy for Kate Bush and The Spinners. My feelings are pretty similar to yours. My two biggest snubs for the hall are Joy Division and Iron Maiden and they both missed out this year, even with JD being lumped with New Order. They are both worthy on their own (and they should go in separately but this institution doesn't know its ass from its elbow so having them together is a bit of a win). Not to mention Zevon and White Stripes missing too.
I look at a lot of the RnR HOF watchers and can't help but roll my eyes at the hypocrisy of them snubbing their noses at the likes of Styx, Foreigner, or even a Paul Anka type as only being hitmakers and then fawn over how necessary it was to induct Sheryl Crow in her first year nominated - who has less than half the amount of top 40 hits than Anka. Obviously commercial success shouldn't be the only thing considered, but I fail to see how Crow has any more innovation or influence than some of the aforementioned acts.
I also see a lot of this "haha - SUCK IT RAWKISTS" type of attitude among them, but frankly, it's not a good thing that White Stripes, Zevon, Joy Division (and New Order), or Iron Maiden can't get in. Or that it took Deep Purple 22 years of being eligible before getting inducted. Or that the Stooges needed 8 nominations and 15 years of being eligible to get in. It just points to how much of an utter failure this HOF is.
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 18, 2023 20:04:24 GMT
Well Jann Wenner is off the board now for some stupid remarks to the NYT so that's good anyway.......one of the great dickheads in Rock and Roll history - you would have never known Husker Du, Bad Brains, THe 'Mats, or Mission of Burma existed in the 80s but you knew all about John Mellencamp and Bon Jovi : Wenner spoke with the Times about his upcoming book “The Masters,” which features interviews he conducted with artists such as John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Mick Jagger and others while at the helm of Rolling Stone.
In the interview, he spoke about his decision to not include interviews with women and Black artists, and his remarks on the topic were widely criticized.
“The people had to meet a couple criteria, but it was just kind of my personal interest and love of them,” he said, adding “Insofar as the women, just none of them were as articulate enough on this intellectual level.”
He continued, “Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.”
“For public relations sake, maybe I should have gone and found one Black and one woman artist to include here that didn’t measure up to that same historical standard, just to avert this kind of criticism,” he told the outlet. “Maybe I’m old-fashioned and I don’t give a (expletive) or whatever. I wish in retrospect I could have interviewed Marvin Gaye. Maybe he’d have been the guy. Maybe Otis Redding, had he lived, would have been the guy.” www.cnn.com/2023/09/17/entertainment/jann-wenner-comments/index.html
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Post by quetee on Sept 18, 2023 20:32:37 GMT
Not surprised by his comments.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 10, 2024 21:48:36 GMT
Oh ffs ...where's SZilla at? Thoughts on this list buddy .......can they let in Oasis for 1994-95 and have the rest killed (if living, RIP Sinead)? Grrrrrrr
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 10, 2024 23:52:58 GMT
Oh ffs ...where's SZilla at? Thoughts on this list buddy .......can they let in Oasis for 1994-95 and have the rest killed (if living, RIP Sinead)? Grrrrrrr
Like half of these aren’t even rock acts. What the hell is going on? Every year the nominees are less and less rock
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SZilla
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Post by SZilla on Feb 11, 2024 22:19:01 GMT
Oh ffs ...where's SZilla at? Thoughts on this list buddy .......can they let in Oasis for 1994-95 and have the rest killed (if living, RIP Sinead)? Grrrrrrr
Perhaps the biggest reasoning behind this particular set of nominees is that last year's ceremony had remarkably low ticket sales. So the hall, never one for purity of its concept, is going all out on mostly super popular acts. There's no alternative/new wave/punk acts this go-around, I wonder why? These nominees lists are also going to consistently become more female driven due to 1.) online demand and 2.) as a reverse course to former chairman Jann Wenner's comments about there being no "female geniuses in rock" or whatever it was he said that got him the big boot. Anyway, let's get to the nitty gritty: Cher - A shoo-in, frankly, even if she was negative about the hall in the past. While I can't really call myself a fan, per say, I understand that she scratches that same Dolly Parton itch that the hall is craving - mega popular female superstar. She should probably even be a 2-time inductee and get in with Sonny, as they're probably the most iconic musical duo since the age of Rock 'n' Roll. Foreigner - This is a big F you to the now completely ousted Jann Wenner, who hated them and said they'd get in over his dead body and honestly, screw Jann Wenner, so I hope they make it in. They have little competition in regards to the rest of the nominees this year. Peter Frampton - He's as pure a rock act as can be on this ballot, but I think he's borderline at best in the grand scheme of things. Two MASSIVE hits, but after that...not much. Lenny Kravitz - Kravitz is fine but its a bit insane which '90s acts are getting the nom and which aren't. You're telling me Kravitz is more significant to the entirety of rock 'n' roll over acts like the never nominated Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, or Pixies? Or hell, even Weezer? Kool & the Gang - I think they have a good shot to get in and fit in that P-Funk/Earth, Wind, & Fire slot. If I had a ballot I'd probably include them. Mariah Carey - Most likely another shoo-in, but every argument I see in her favor is about how many hit singles she has, but these same people then turn around and poo-poo on some "classic rawk" acts who's biggest claim is the same. The hall shouldn't (and has even said so in the past) how its not about the amount of hits one has, but how influential and innovative they were (with commercial success and longevity taken into account). Whatever, I guess she's more influential to rock and roll than the White Stripes, right?!?!?! Oasis - Hell yeah, get 'em in. One of the most significant acts of the '90s, but again, you can say the same thing about Beck who was nominated once and then forgotten about. Oasis would be the first act representing the Britpop movement of the '90s, but let's be serious, after them, Blur maybe has a slight chance and there's no way the Hall would even remember names like Suede, Pulp, Manic Street Preachers, or Happy Mondays (even though they should.) I was about to go into a huge fit over Paul McGuigan and Alan White being left off the nominated members list, but its since been corrected. Sinead O'Connor - This feels very much like a pity nomination over her death. Her career got nuked very early on (whether you feel its fairly or not). Truthfully, I don't really know a lot about her career except for 1.) Nothing Compares 2 U, 2.) her SNL incident, and 3.) her f-ed up childhood. But again, is she really the most significant name here when Bjork, Tori Amos, PJ Harvey, Fiona Apple, and Alanis Morissette are all already eligible? Ozzy Osbourne - I do think his solo career is worthy, but my hopes for metal with this voting block is slim to none. Iron Maiden & Motorhead can't pass and threshold of induction and Judas Priest required a sleazy backdoor entry. Black Sabbath themselves took EIGHT nominations over ten years to get in. Come on. Sade - Watching the Smooth Operator music video at a young age was one of those "awakening" moments for young SZilla, but this also reeks of "we want to nominate more female artists," which is cool and all, but why nominate Sade (1 female & 3 male) when the Runaways are still on the outside looking in? Mary J. Blige - Twice nominated now, I truthfully know little about her career. Just not my style at all. But she's one that'll get in eventually because they want her in. Dave Matthews Band - You're telling me Phish can't get a nomination but you can nominate Dave twice now? Eric B. & Rakim - Don't Sweat the Technique is cool. Idk, definitely worthy of a Hip Hop Hall of fame. Jane's Addiction - Sure, worthy I guess, but again, not over the likes of the Replacements, the Smiths, Sonic Youth, Pixies, Dinosaur Jr., Smashing Pumpkins, Husker Du, and on and on. A Tribe Called Quest - I like them a lot actually and again with how things have worked out, with hip hop getting consistently inducted, Tribe probably belongs alongside the inducted hip hop acts.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 22, 2024 19:27:45 GMT
SZilla is gonna have a lot to say - and that dude has good taste and likes Late Night With The Devil too ffs Fuckin' Foreigner - GTFO During Sunday's "Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Night" episode of American Idol, host Ryan Seacrest and judge Lionel Richie revealed that Mary J. Blige, Cher, Dave Matthews Band, Foreigner, Peter Frampton, Kool & The Gang, Ozzy Osbourne, and A Tribe Called Quest are being inducted under the Performer Category, which honors "artists who have created music whose originality, impact, and influence has changed the course of rock & roll," according to a release.
The Rock Hall is also honoring the late Jimmy Buffett, MC5, Dionne Warwick, and Norman Whitfield with the Musical Excellence Award, which is given to "artists, musicians, songwriters and producers whose originality and influence creating music have had a dramatic impact on music."
MC5 - FNCK YEAH.........
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SZilla
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Post by SZilla on May 4, 2024 13:34:49 GMT
SZilla is gonna have a lot to say - and that dude has good taste and likes Late Night With The Devil too ffs Fuckin' Foreigner - GTFO During Sunday's "Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Night" episode of American Idol, host Ryan Seacrest and judge Lionel Richie revealed that Mary J. Blige, Cher, Dave Matthews Band, Foreigner, Peter Frampton, Kool & The Gang, Ozzy Osbourne, and A Tribe Called Quest are being inducted under the Performer Category, which honors "artists who have created music whose originality, impact, and influence has changed the course of rock & roll," according to a release.
The Rock Hall is also honoring the late Jimmy Buffett, MC5, Dionne Warwick, and Norman Whitfield with the Musical Excellence Award, which is given to "artists, musicians, songwriters and producers whose originality and influence creating music have had a dramatic impact on music."
MC5 - FNCK YEAH......... Saw this while on my honeymoon but haven't had the chance to respond till now. Before getting into the nitty gritty of each of the Performer inductees, I'll say this about the hall: The fact that MC5 could not get inducted into the hall "the right way" and had to be resorted to a backdoor induction (along the likes of Judas Priest & LL Cool J) shows that the Hall of Fame is an abject failure as an institution and from its stated mission. MC5 (along with the Stooges & the still not inducted NY Dolls) is a definitive link from the garage rock of the Kinks & the Sonics to prime Punk Rock. Their chart success may have been minimal, but their influence, innovation, and impact (the big 3 I's) are massive and exactly what the Hall claimed to be its primary focus years ago. I'll admit it wasn't for lack of trying (nominated 6 times previously to no avail) but the voting body (and I'm guessing its primarily the BS music journos at fault here rather than the fellow musicians) truly and utterly failed here. I know Musical Excellence (which was originally a category for Side Musicians that have since been completely erased from focus) is now basically serving as the equivalent to a Veteran's Committee, but there's at least more validity to just about every other hall of fame that manages that than the Rock Hall. Really just wildly frustrating and its this stuff that has made my interest in the concept of the RnR Hall of Fame almost completely null at this point. The Musical Excellence category also inducted the twice nominated Dionne Warwick (reeking of a "let's get her in before she dies" thought process), the never nominated (and frankly marginal in my eyes) Jimmy Buffet (reeking of a "oh shit, he died" thought process), and Norman Whitfield (deserving, but missing Barrett Strong?????). The Non-Performer category inducts Suzanne de Passe who is, uh... a choice. Not as bad as Allen Grubman I guess? Musical Influence nails it with Big Mama Thornton, who's absence all these years was GLARING. John Mayall and Alexis Korner also get in this category, but my thoughts were always that this was for artists either pre-dating "Rock 'n' Roll" or belonging primarily to genres pre-dating the genre (i.e. blues, country, etc.) and I guess you could argue that they're solely blues and not blues rock, but I can't help but roll my eyes over it. Now, onto the Performer inductees. My predictions were mostly correct sans one major mistake - Mariah Carey (who a lot of other online rock hall watchers were decrying as a slam dunk). To me, it is simply beautiful seeing all the virtually online hall watchers slam their heads against the wall trying to reckon Mariah missing, when this same institution whiffed on Radiohead their first year and had David Bowie wait FIVE YEARS after first becoming eligible. These same rock hall watchers bemoan "Rawkists" that root for primarily for rock or metal bands only to get into the hall, and while I don't agree with that rawkist attitude and think there is room for other genres in the hall, the hate they get tends to extend to the bands themselves, which ultimately makes these watchers the exact flip side of the types they loathe so much. I bring this up only because they can crap on a band like Foreigner so much for "only having hits" and not really hitting the Big 3 I's, but then scream their heads off over Mariah Carey, who's honestly in the same damn boat. As for Foreigner, who did get in, I can't help but be especially excited due to that general reaction, but I'd be lying if I also didn't admit that I grew up liking their songs and frankly I'm glad to see them in, as cheesy as they are. Cher got in, as expected. She was the biggest no-brainer this year and she hits everything that the current Rock Hall establishment wants in an inductee. Kool & the Gang was also expected and I'm glad they're in. They were easily one of, if not the, biggest funk group not to be in yet. Let's see if the Hall will go for Commodores now (hopefully they don't just settle for that solo Lionel induction a few years back) or back to War perhaps? I'm really happy Ozzy got in - partly because again I grew up listening to his music, but also because it shows that maybe there's still hope for metal performers. After Judas Priest got backdoor'd and Iron Maiden and Motorhead continually miss out, it was feeling like the genre (which, just to be clear, isn't even my favorite - I'm a punk guy) was DOA with the hall. That still may be the case, but I'm more hopeful now than I would've been had Ozzy lost out. A Tribe Called Quest is a pleasant surprise. A formative group for hip hop that deserves enshrinement and it's nice that they and Eric B. & Rakim didn't cancel each other out. Mary J. Blige - I mentioned in an earlier post, but I don't really know her career at all, but it was clear that they wanted her in and when the establishment wants you, you get in. I thought the same of Lenny Kravitz this year and I'm surprised he missed out, but I'm thinking he'll be back. Dave Matthews Band - DMB was the only band to get #1 in the fan vote and not get in that year and it pissed fans off. This feels like the hall trying to make sure they don't look bad again. While I think Phish should've gotten in before DMB, I also don't want to bad mouth them too much either - I don't really follow them besides a song or two. Peter Frampton's induction has me kinda siding with the hall followers I was bitching about earlier in this post. Two BIG songs but then...not really enough in my eyes to get in. You're telling me that he's the classic rock act that Hall gets in right away when King Crimson or the Guess Who still can't get a nom? For those that didn't get in, the only one I'm really annoyed about is Oasis, but it's to be expected at this point that the hall will screw multiple things up every year.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 4, 2024 13:50:30 GMT
SZilla is gonna have a lot to say - and that dude has good taste and likes Late Night With The Devil too ffs Fuckin' Foreigner - GTFO During Sunday's "Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Night" episode of American Idol, host Ryan Seacrest and judge Lionel Richie revealed that Mary J. Blige, Cher, Dave Matthews Band, Foreigner, Peter Frampton, Kool & The Gang, Ozzy Osbourne, and A Tribe Called Quest are being inducted under the Performer Category, which honors "artists who have created music whose originality, impact, and influence has changed the course of rock & roll," according to a release.
The Rock Hall is also honoring the late Jimmy Buffett, MC5, Dionne Warwick, and Norman Whitfield with the Musical Excellence Award, which is given to "artists, musicians, songwriters and producers whose originality and influence creating music have had a dramatic impact on music."
MC5 - FNCK YEAH......... Saw this while on my honeymoon but haven't had the chance to respond till now. Congratulations, all the best - about time we had some grown up good news around here ffs
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SZilla
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Post by SZilla on May 4, 2024 13:52:51 GMT
Saw this while on my honeymoon but haven't had the chance to respond till now. Congratulations, all the best - about time we had some grown up good news around here ffs Thank you pacinoyes - much appreciated!
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Post by PromNightCarrie on May 6, 2024 4:09:24 GMT
It's not even rock & roll anymore. Are they running out of rock acts to induct? The name doesn't even suit it anymore. Maybe because rock & roll seems so antiquated these days that even the thought of honoring past legendary rock artists only also feels out of touch.
I watched the documentary on A Tribe Called Quest, which was very depressing. They really couldn't stand each other, so when they asked Q-Tip at their very last show if they would all ever perform together again, he said only if they get inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame - and now Pfife Dawg is gone.
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