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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 30, 2021 23:28:22 GMT
Not sure I understand the argument that if a female-led Bond film is successful, it will generate complaints about women not being able to stand on their own… since we’ve established that most male Bond knock-offs fail anyway, you can easily say that it’s hard for anyone not associated with a brand like 007 or Marvel to stand on their own. All the time, we talk about how much (or how little) of a box-office draw certain actors are outside of the franchises they are a part of. I don’t think a successful female-led Bond film would send a worse message about what is often necessary to succeed than, say, when anyone (regardless of gender) capitalizes on an established brand, having previously failed to create their own.
And the point about it “spoiling other people’s fun,” “taking away a character,” and “stopping movies other ppl enjoy from being made” – it doesn’t have to be a zero-sum thing. It’s possible for the traditional male Bond and a new female Bond to coexist… remember when Octopussy and Never Say Never Again came out the same year? Obviously that was a unique case, but if EON wanted to, they could do both male and female versions in different films, either in the same year or spread out (this would mean becoming more prolific like Marvel, which ppl might not like). I’m not suggesting a multiverse thing exactly lol, only that we don’t necessarily have to “lose” the Bond we already know and love. I’m not sure why the assumption would be that a female Bond would be generically strong, asexual, and bereft of personality. Obviously you would just need the right people behind it to make it work, the same with any character. A female Bond could still use her sexuality, though it would be different of course…. something like a seductive femme fatale spy could be cool.
Having said all that though, I’m more in support of the idea of a spin-off character in the same universe. That way, you’re not “taking away” anything while still capitalizing on the brand and not making women shoulder the burden of creating a brand new franchise that has more of a chance of failing.
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Post by countjohn on Oct 1, 2021 1:40:26 GMT
And the point about it “spoiling other people’s fun,” “taking away a character,” and “stopping movies other ppl enjoy from being made” – it doesn’t have to be a zero-sum thing. It’s possible for the traditional male Bond and a new female Bond to coexist… remember when Octopussy and Never Say Never Again came out the same year? Obviously that was a unique case, but if EON wanted to, they could do both male and female versions in different films, either in the same year or spread out (this would mean becoming more prolific like Marvel, which ppl might not like). I’m not suggesting a multiverse thing exactly lol, only that we don’t necessarily have to “lose” the Bond we already know and love. Having said all that though, I’m more in support of the idea of a spin-off character in the same universe. That way, you’re not “taking away” anything while still capitalizing on the brand and not making women shoulder the burden of creating a brand new franchise that has more of a chance of failing. Never Say Never Again was a unique situation that resulted from a weird loophole enabling Warner Brothers to make one Bond film so long as it was a remake of Thunderball. And MGM/UA was not happy about it specifically because they didn't like the idea of there being two Bonds. I find it very unlikely you'd see two separate Bond franchises, even in comic book movies where that kind of thing is traditionally a part of the medium I don't think there've ever been "two Supermans" or whatever putting out movies simultaneously. I don't care if they want to do spinoffs, there are already rumors of that with Lynch's character in this movie and Broccoli has expressed interest in a "Winter Olympics" spinoff series as she put it before. But that's not the same thing as a "female Bond". It was believed there were plans to do that with Halle Berry's character in Die Another Day but after the film was poorly received and they decided to go in a new direction that was shelved. It doesn't have to be, but I've seen these kinds of movies plenty of times and that's nearly always what happens. Maybe Broccoli, Purvis, and Wade would do a better job..........or not.
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Post by Martin Stett on Oct 1, 2021 4:35:06 GMT
@ Tommen_Saperstein Seeing as how I namedropped The Rhythm Section, here's a Letterboxd review of the film that I largely agree with. Of course, I'm one of the few supporters of the movie (currently my #3 of 2020), but I still hold out hope that somebody else will actually enjoy it if I keep shoving it down their throats. On a side note, TRS was directed by a woman, making it one of the few female-led, female-directed action movies out there.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Oct 2, 2021 22:54:00 GMT
Down to 70 on MC. Seems like this is the most polarizing film of Craig's run. If you look at the reviews on MC, there are currently 15 that are in the 80s and above (with 5 100s), but you also have 16 reviews in the 60s and below (with 8 reviews with a score of 50). None of Craig's other Bond films have a split like that.
Again, I'm not reading reviews in depth, but it's interesting to see how some critics are complete opposite sides with some saying the film is a step too far in the way it swings for the fences, and others saying it doesn't go far enough and still seems stuck in the past.... don't really know what to expect tbh...
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Post by Martin Stett on Oct 3, 2021 1:45:19 GMT
Again, I'm not reading reviews in depth, but it's interesting to see how some critics are complete opposite sides with some saying the film is a step too far in the way it swings for the fences, and others saying it doesn't go far enough and still seems stuck in the past.... don't really know what to expect tbh... This is how I felt about Skyfall. It kept pretending to subvert the Bond formula, but it just seemed disrespectful to me (like the stiff with Q), and never completely felt like its own movie that it desperately wanted to be.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on May 5, 2022 3:09:55 GMT
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on May 11, 2022 2:19:08 GMT
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Jun 30, 2022 3:17:28 GMT
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Post by Pavan on Sept 27, 2023 19:03:39 GMT
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Post by ibbi on Sept 27, 2023 19:32:22 GMT
A waste of his time?! He's a Bond nut. I remember before Batman Begins came out he used to speak about his love for Bond, and all the Batman crazies were like 'God, if he loves Bond so much maybe he should be making that instead'. If 20 years later he finally gets to do just that I'm sure he'll be pretty happy. No way he would do it without his beloved right of final cut.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Sept 27, 2023 19:37:52 GMT
It's Ruimy so take it with a pinch of salt. I hope it isn't true, though. I would rather see Nolan continue to do original fare, feel Bond would be somewhat redundant given both his filmography and how much Sam Mendes aped off The Dark Knight with Skyfall (successfully btw, not entirely a dig), and think part of the fun of Bond is seeing the reinvention for the times which would be completely lost in a period piece.
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Post by stephen on Sept 27, 2023 19:40:05 GMT
It's Ruimy so take it with a pinch of salt. I hope it isn't true, though. I would rather see Nolan continue to do original fare, feel Bond would be somewhat redundant given both his filmography and how much Sam Mendes aped off The Dark Knight with Skyfall (successfully btw, not entirely a dig), and think part of the fun of Bond is seeing the reinvention for the times which would be completely lost in a period piece. Agreed. Although I said before and I'll say it again: Tenet was his Bond.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Sept 27, 2023 20:05:18 GMT
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Post by JangoB on Sept 27, 2023 20:21:02 GMT
What's weird about it? I think it's reasonable to feel that him doing Bond (and especially two Bonds) would be a bit of a needless detour considering that he's not only already infused numerous of his projects (the Batman movies, Inception, Tenet) with strong Bond elements but also managed to apply those elements to larger-than-life ideas that would never appear in the Bond franchise itself. Why would one want a straight Bond film from him when he's basically done it with the added bonuses of stuff like dreams within dreams or time inversion?
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Sept 27, 2023 20:49:39 GMT
What's weird about it? I think it's reasonable to feel that him doing Bond (and especially two Bonds) would be a bit of a needless detour considering that he's not only already infused numerous of his projects (the Batman movies, Inception, Tenet) with strong Bond elements but also managed to apply those elements to larger-than-life ideas that would never appear in the Bond franchise itself. Why would one want a straight Bond film from him when he's basically done it with the added bonuses of stuff like dreams within dreams or time inversion? Well first of all I think it’s weird to say a project (or 2 in the case) that a director is passionate about is a waste of their time. And while he had infused a lot of elements from the Bond franchise into his films, making a conventional Bond film(s) is still a separate entity. And being ok with one but not two is also odd. He’d likely do a separate film in between the two and perhaps he just feels he has enough ideas to cover two films.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Sept 27, 2023 20:53:24 GMT
i’d love to see it. seems like it’d be a passion project of his and the rumour of it being a hard adaptation and going back to the 60’s is the best avenue to take for the reboot imo. it’s been a long time since we’ve been in that period and although the craig saga is my favourite (mostly due to how much they broke from the bond formula and how grounded it felt), i feel like it’s been long enough now that a hard reboot in this nature would feel refreshing
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Post by Pavan on Sept 28, 2023 7:08:36 GMT
What's weird about it? I think it's reasonable to feel that him doing Bond (and especially two Bonds) would be a bit of a needless detour considering that he's not only already infused numerous of his projects (the Batman movies, Inception, Tenet) with strong Bond elements but also managed to apply those elements to larger-than-life ideas that would never appear in the Bond franchise itself. Why would one want a straight Bond film from him when he's basically done it with the added bonuses of stuff like dreams within dreams or time inversion? that and i don't want a director of his caliber and power spending 5-6 years of his career on doing Bond when he can bring original subjects to life. I know that he is a fan of Bond and i totally understand him doing one where he can soft reboot the franchise and set a path and leave it to the journeymen.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 28, 2023 7:45:32 GMT
I don’t buy it. People are saying this would be a passion project for him (it definitely was at one point at least), but I really think Tenet scratched that itch once and for all for him, and perhaps it’s out of his system now.
There was some French interview with him around the time of Tenet’s release (can’t remember where) where he basically said that him doing an official Bond movie would be “futile” after Tenet. Around the same time (I think it was on the Happy Sad Confused podcast) he also seemed to imply that doing Bond after Tenet would be kind of pointless...
Tenet feels to me like the sort of thing that he originally wanted to do with Bond but wouldn’t have been allowed to do under Eon’s control. Even if he did have more ideas for his own take on Bond, I struggle to see him agreeing to work within certain constraints and having to compromise creative control. Barbara Broccoli is very protective of the character, plus Nolan has said in the past that for him to come on board, it would have to be a reinvention of the character... I just don’t see them working well together.
And like others have already said, I would also just rather see him do his own original stuff anyway at this point. If you asked me just 5 years ago, I would have said “Hell yeah, give me a Nolan Bond movie right now!” but after Tenet, I agree it would just seem redundant... Plus I feel like there would be a good chance of people looking down on it as “lesser” than Tenet as Bond movie because it wouldn’t be “pure” unadulterated Nolan and more compromised.
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Post by FallenWarrior on Sept 28, 2023 12:13:52 GMT
He made Tenet and I'm quite ambivalent with that film so meh
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Sept 28, 2023 12:52:20 GMT
I don’t buy it. People are saying this would be a passion project for him (it definitely was at one point at least), but I really think Tenet scratched that itch once and for all for him, and perhaps it’s out of his system now. There was some French interview with him around the time of Tenet’s release (can’t remember where) where he basically said that him doing an official Bond movie would be “futile” after Tenet. Around the same time (I think it was on the Happy Sad Confused podcast) he also seemed to imply that doing Bond after Tenet would be kind of pointless... Tenet feels to me like the sort of thing that he originally wanted to do with Bond but wouldn’t have been allowed to do under Eon’s control. Even if he did have more ideas for his own take on Bond, I struggle to see him agreeing to work within certain constraints and having to compromise creative control. Barbara Broccoli is very protective of the character, plus Nolan has said in the past that for him to come on board, it would have to be a reinvention of the character... I just don’t see them working well together. And like others have already said, I would also just rather see him do his own original stuff anyway at this point. If you asked me just 5 years ago, I would have said “Hell yeah, give me a Nolan Bond movie right now!” but after Tenet, I agree it would just seem redundant... Plus I feel like there would be a good chance of people looking down on it as “lesser” than Tenet as Bond movie because it wouldn’t be “pure” unadulterated Nolan and more compromised. Not sure I hold a couple of random quotes in as high regard. He just as likely was tired of the Bond questions at the time and wanted to put a stop to them. And I’m not so sure I agree with your assessment that Broccoli would force constraints on him. She knows they need something that lives up to the Craig series and isn’t a total rehash. Nolan may be the only director who has earned the right to be trusted taking the reins. Now, I’m still not predicting this to come to fruition, but I think it’s totally reasonable.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Sept 28, 2023 14:12:21 GMT
i’m pretty sure nolan said it’d be amazing to make a bond movie just a couple of months ago, no?
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Post by Billy_Costigan on Sept 28, 2023 15:18:34 GMT
He just said it would be a privilege to do a Bond movie a few months ago. I'd prefer he focus on something more original but I can see this happening.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 28, 2023 17:25:31 GMT
I am also a bit dubious on this because I don't think Babs will ever give up final cut. Bond had always been producer driven. It sounds like a serious attempt was made to get Nolan as the follow up to Skyfall but that was the sticking point.
Would still love to see him do it if they could work it out. I want Nolan to move away from action going forward but Bond would be the one exception to that. Don't want a period piece though, the EON Bond franchise should always be contemporary. Maybe do a gritty streaming series set in the 50's or something. Which is another thing that makes me doubt this, not sure how they're going to "reinvent" Bond in the past.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 28, 2023 21:12:35 GMT
I don’t buy it. People are saying this would be a passion project for him (it definitely was at one point at least), but I really think Tenet scratched that itch once and for all for him, and perhaps it’s out of his system now. There was some French interview with him around the time of Tenet’s release (can’t remember where) where he basically said that him doing an official Bond movie would be “futile” after Tenet. Around the same time (I think it was on the Happy Sad Confused podcast) he also seemed to imply that doing Bond after Tenet would be kind of pointless... Tenet feels to me like the sort of thing that he originally wanted to do with Bond but wouldn’t have been allowed to do under Eon’s control. Even if he did have more ideas for his own take on Bond, I struggle to see him agreeing to work within certain constraints and having to compromise creative control. Barbara Broccoli is very protective of the character, plus Nolan has said in the past that for him to come on board, it would have to be a reinvention of the character... I just don’t see them working well together. And like others have already said, I would also just rather see him do his own original stuff anyway at this point. If you asked me just 5 years ago, I would have said “Hell yeah, give me a Nolan Bond movie right now!” but after Tenet, I agree it would just seem redundant... Plus I feel like there would be a good chance of people looking down on it as “lesser” than Tenet as Bond movie because it wouldn’t be “pure” unadulterated Nolan and more compromised. Not sure I hold a couple of random quotes in as high regard. He just as likely was tired of the Bond questions at the time and wanted to put a stop to them. And I’m not so sure I agree with your assessment that Broccoli would force constraints on him. She knows they need something that lives up to the Craig series and isn’t a total rehash. Nolan may be the only director who has earned the right to be trusted taking the reins. Now, I’m still not predicting this to come to fruition, but I think it’s totally reasonable. Nolan’s very careful about what he says in interviews, so I don’t think he’d suggest as much if he didn’t actually mean it. And in the article posted above, he literally says “you’re working within a particular set of constraints” and must approach it with the “right attitude.”
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 28, 2023 21:13:38 GMT
He just said it would be a privilege to do a Bond movie a few months ago. I'd prefer he focus on something more original but I can see this happening.
I’ve seen the original interview that the article is quoting from (which I think the article misrepresents a bit), and to me it reads as more of a diplomatic answer to the question than him expressing a genuine desire to do it. The most telling part of that interview is where he mentions how you’d be working within a particular set of constraints, and how he wouldn’t want to take it on not fully committed to what he could bring to the table creatively... which, again, seems like a probable scenario.
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