Pasquale
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Posts: 535
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Post by Pasquale on Jan 1, 2023 21:30:43 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 1, 2023 22:16:36 GMT
Well Leonardo DiCaprio will be pissed I guess I always say the same things about this stuff in general and in Shia's case: * It's nice when actors praise actors and gross when they criticize them......I don't buy any praise, ever - actors are professional liars and there are always some "reasons" for the things they say - good or bad......but it's nice to just take on a surface level * I never have understood the appeal of Shia and that includes Honey Boy which is a very overrated imo exceedingly mannered performance ......I hope I do see him in something soon that I like....he has his fans certanly * I also never understand the actors "like Shia" - the actors who are acclaimed for being basically unique personalities as if that somehow makes them artists: Mickey Rourke in the 80s, Vincent Gallo, Shia ......now Rourke eventually did good work - but his 80s work is insanely romanticized and while Gallo has been good a couple of times too - this idea of the actor as a Punk Rock figure is quite tedious to me......I get why people think the actor who played Johnny Boy in Mean Streets was REALLY like Johnny Boy or if you're playing a junkie you have to be as kinetic as the actor playing Bobby in Panic In Needle Park.......but I'm saying it's not the case.....and the actors who trade on this thing are never - ever - among the best actors - whatever you want to call it - they weren't anywhere near the actors they're striving to emulate..... When Bernthal uses the term "bleed out for his acting" I'm thinking that's not acting.......that's bleeding out by the actor.....
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 2, 2023 2:09:05 GMT
Fair enough. Labeouf is a real talent. And while he's certainly nowhere as accomplished career wise as several other actors Bernthal has worked with ( ie Robert DeNiro, Leonardo DiCaprio etc), It's clear that Bernthal is rating Labeouf more by his acting process and dedication over an 8 month period that he personally experienced than his overall achievements. He might not relate as much to DiCaprio's process or whatever process DeNiro had by the time they did Grudge Match together (which I'm pretty sure is not the same process he had in his prime Raging Bull days).
If another actor wants to rate an actor and show respect to them along those lines, then why the fuck not? It doesn't mean Labeouf is going to be in any GOAT discussions (because he obviously isn't), but it doesn't make Bernthal dishonest or a liar for making that subjective assessment based on his own criteria of why he rates an actor he's worked with over others. Some actors might call Jeremy Strong the best actor they ever worked with because they find his process (which sounds similarly intense to Labeouf's) to be inspiring for them, beyond that of other actors that may be may be far more accomplished than Strong overall. Saying that won't put Strong in any GOAT discussions either, but it's perfectly reasonable why some actors who feel particularly impressed by other actors they work with who seem to go the extra mile to do a role.
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Post by stephen on Jan 2, 2023 2:13:55 GMT
It is interesting, because Bernthal has worked with two actors who got early success as child stars and who had different paths in their transition to adult roles. We don't really talk about DiCaprio and LaBeouf in the same breath much, but perhaps we should.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 2, 2023 2:26:57 GMT
It is interesting, because Bernthal has worked with two actors who got early success as child stars and who had different paths in their transition to adult roles. We don't really talk about DiCaprio and LaBeouf in the same breath much, but perhaps we should. Like I said, it's because Labeouf, even though his talent is obvious, is simply nowhere near as accomplished career-wise as DiCaprio (or DiCaprio's direct peers like Christian Bale or Joaquin Phoenix). You gotta have the body of work/performances to be in those conversations, and Labeouf doesn't have it (and likely may never get it, especially with the abuse stigma over him). He's got good, respectable indir work behind him, and was perhaps headed for a next level breakthrough, but he derailed his own career. DiCaprio was taken seriously very early in his career and was receiving prestige roles as an adolescent and a teen. Up until 2012, Lebeouf was still seen as that goofy kid from Even Stevens and Transformers. He was making the transition to serious acclaimed actor in indie films, but he'd still done nowhere near enough to be in those Big Dog conversations. He may have gotten there eventually, but we'll never know. And he never had the kind of insane breakout once-in-a-lifetime prestige role/film/performance in Elvis that just catapulted Austin Butler from former bubblegum kid star to potential DiCaprio level A-lister Films/performances like The Tax Collector were never going to put Labeouf into that kind of bracket
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Post by stephen on Jan 2, 2023 2:42:35 GMT
It is interesting, because Bernthal has worked with two actors who got early success as child stars and who had different paths in their transition to adult roles. We don't really talk about DiCaprio and LaBeouf in the same breath much, but perhaps we should. Like I said, it's because Labeouf, even though his talent is obvious, is simply nowhere near as accomplished career-wise as DiCaprio (or DiCaprio's direct peers like Christian Bale or Joaquin Phoenix). You gotta have the body of work/performances to be in those conversations, and Labeouf doesn't have it (and likely may never get it, especially with the abuse stigma over him). He's got good, respectable indir work behind him, and was perhaps headed for a next level breakthrough, but he derailed his own career. Don't get me wrong -- I am not trying to say their careers are equivalent in any way because obviously DiCaprio has the most lucrative career of any actor of his generation, bar none. But I think they are both kind of the poster children for child actors who had wildly different paths to their adult careers. LaBeouf is indeed closer to a Joaquin Phoenix type than he is a DiCaprio -- actors who occupy an offbeat niche and aren't as eminently castable as someone like DiCaprio might be (even if I think Leo was routinely miscast throughout the 2000s), but who put in the work to break away from their child actor roots. Someone like LaBeouf going as hard with his Fury preparations can be seen as going overboard, like the Jared Leto accusations of method-acting, but it's fascinating to see how Bernthal reacts to that method in retrospect.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 2, 2023 3:00:53 GMT
Like I said, it's because Labeouf, even though his talent is obvious, is simply nowhere near as accomplished career-wise as DiCaprio (or DiCaprio's direct peers like Christian Bale or Joaquin Phoenix). You gotta have the body of work/performances to be in those conversations, and Labeouf doesn't have it (and likely may never get it, especially with the abuse stigma over him). He's got good, respectable indir work behind him, and was perhaps headed for a next level breakthrough, but he derailed his own career. Don't get me wrong -- I am not trying to say their careers are equivalent in any way because obviously DiCaprio has the most lucrative career of any actor of his generation, bar none. But I think they are both kind of the poster children for child actors who had wildly different paths to their adult careers. LaBeouf is indeed closer to a Joaquin Phoenix type than he is a DiCaprio -- actors who occupy an offbeat niche and aren't as eminently castable as someone like DiCaprio might be (even if I think Leo was routinely miscast throughout the 2000s), but who put in the work to break away from their child actor roots. Someone like LaBeouf going as hard with his Fury preparations can be seen as going overboard, like the Jared Leto accusations of method-acting, but it's fascinating to see how Bernthal reacts to that method in retrospect. Lebeouf still can't even be compared to someone like Joaquin Phoenix in career terms because he has not got anything close to the body of performances Phoenix has accrued. Phoenix is in those Big Dog conversations because he has the work, even if he's never been as castable or bankable as a DiCaprio. Same goes for Bale. Maybe Labeouf might (or might not) have been capable of reaching a stature in the industry like Phoenix, but he probably needed to put in another 15-20 years of work and performances to get there. Especially if he stuck to the indie route. I also don't think Phoenix was ever so heavily linked to hugely successful child friendly franchises like Even Stevens and Transformers, so had less trouble escaping the stigma of being a child star and taken seriously.
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