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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Dec 14, 2022 15:29:23 GMT
I dunno, she seemed like an authentic hyperactive mom to me, a character who was supposed to be a performer, but life never gave her the opportunity... she's never gotten the "role" that she wanted to play in life, and that part of her that wants to be the center of attention has never left her, and she continues to crave it at the expense of her family. Part of the point is that she's a sharp contrast to Dano's character, who is intentionally depicted as maybe too grounded, whereas she is all dreams and no responsibility. To me the way she played it was perfectly appropriate for the character, who "overplays" life and is always playing to the cheap seats.
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 14, 2022 16:00:35 GMT
Michelle Williams is the only thing that is great about the movie to me - I mean I liked it just fine - not a hater, but it's "just" a work of well intentioned craft all around - I wish I saw what y'all see in this movie.....
On the other hand I wish I saw what everybody ever sees in Paul Dano - who still has just 1 great / special performance in his life that I can see (Love & Mercy)......
Nothing would make me happier than to see Barry Keoghan in his spot specifically tbh.....
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Post by stephen on Dec 14, 2022 16:04:33 GMT
I dunno, she seemed like an authentic hyperactive mom to me, a character who was supposed to be a performer, but life never gave her the opportunity... she's never gotten the "role" that she wanted to play in life, and that part of her that wants to be the center of attention has never left her, and she continues to crave it at the expense of her family. Part of the point is that she's a sharp contrast to Dano's character, who is intentionally depicted as maybe too grounded, whereas she is all dreams and no responsibility. To me the way she played it was perfectly appropriate for the character, who "overplays" life and is always playing to the cheap seats. I can see that's what they were going for, but there's a way to showcase that without feeling like it's breaking the confines of the film we're seeing. Someone like Judd Hirsch can storm in and play a big, loud character but the choices he makes feel right in that environment. But watching Williams is like watching Lydia Tar conducting Mahler's Fifth when all of a sudden someone comes in with a banjo and clocks the first chair viola in the head.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Dec 14, 2022 16:16:05 GMT
I dunno, she seemed like an authentic hyperactive mom to me, a character who was supposed to be a performer, but life never gave her the opportunity... she's never gotten the "role" that she wanted to play in life, and that part of her that wants to be the center of attention has never left her, and she continues to crave it at the expense of her family. Part of the point is that she's a sharp contrast to Dano's character, who is intentionally depicted as maybe too grounded, whereas she is all dreams and no responsibility. To me the way she played it was perfectly appropriate for the character, who "overplays" life and is always playing to the cheap seats. I can see that's what they were going for, but there's a way to showcase that without feeling like it's breaking the confines of the film we're seeing. Someone like Judd Hirsch can storm in and play a big, loud character but the choices he makes feel right in that environment. But watching Williams is like watching Lydia Tar conducting Mahler's Fifth when all of a sudden someone comes in with a banjo and clocks the first chair viola in the head. I think the movie is strongly implying at her suffering from bipolar disorder (and possibly some signs of narcissism as well) and the bigness of Williams's performance fits that imo.
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Post by stabcaesar on Dec 14, 2022 16:17:51 GMT
But watching Williams is like watching Lydia Tar conducting Mahler's Fifth when all of a sudden someone comes in with a banjo and clocks the first chair viola in the head. Todd Field should've had Blanchett clock Strong with a banjo
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Post by stephen on Dec 14, 2022 16:20:03 GMT
I can see that's what they were going for, but there's a way to showcase that without feeling like it's breaking the confines of the film we're seeing. Someone like Judd Hirsch can storm in and play a big, loud character but the choices he makes feel right in that environment. But watching Williams is like watching Lydia Tar conducting Mahler's Fifth when all of a sudden someone comes in with a banjo and clocks the first chair viola in the head. I think the movie is strongly implying at her suffering from bipolar disorder (and possibly some signs of narcissism as well) and the bigness of Williams's performance fits that imo. Yeah, I picked up on that. Doesn't mean that I think that excuses the performance being at odds with the rest of the film's dynamic. It's why I have such issues with Julianne Moore in Magnolia. Yes, I am aware people do act like that in real life, but I also kinda have a problem when people use that as a broad dismissal of overacting. Another example is Mark Ruffalo in Spotlight. What he's doing is so at odds with the rest of the movie that it cripples it. If the movie were more modulated to his tone, maybe it wouldn't stand out so much, but it wasn't, so it does. And that's the case here.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Dec 14, 2022 16:20:42 GMT
I’ll agree that I’ve been finding the focused praise on Williams a bit odd when I found Dano to be much better. I’ll add I don’t think Williams is bad or anything, just that I’d rank her probably 4th or 5th out the cast so I just don’t agree how much she’s been singled out for her performance.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Dec 14, 2022 16:27:02 GMT
I think the movie is strongly implying at her suffering from bipolar disorder (and possibly some signs of narcissism as well) and the bigness of Williams's performance fits that imo. Yeah, I picked up on that. Doesn't mean that I think that excuses the performance being at odds with the rest of the film's dynamic. It's why I have such issues with Julianne Moore in Magnolia. Yes, I am aware people do act like that in real life, but I also kinda have a problem when people use that as a broad dismissal of overacting. Another example is Mark Ruffalo in Spotlight. What he's doing is so at odds with the rest of the movie that it cripples it. If the movie were more modulated to his tone, maybe it wouldn't stand out so much, but it wasn't, so it does. And that's the case here. Ruffalo in Spotlight is the one I will definitely agree with you on. All of his choices stand out as choices and do not feel integrated with the stripped, natural feel of the film. Damn near every intonation feels self-conscious, especially in his big scene. Moore and Williams are both cases I can see where people have problems, but the former seems to me generally no bigger than other tonal aspects of the film (but I'm harsher on that film's 3rd act than most on here it seems) and the latter feels out-of-place in a way I feel works to the movie's strengths (being the disruptive force in the family that everyone needs to tiptoe around). Diff'rent strokes.
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Post by stephen on Dec 14, 2022 16:36:50 GMT
Yeah, I picked up on that. Doesn't mean that I think that excuses the performance being at odds with the rest of the film's dynamic. It's why I have such issues with Julianne Moore in Magnolia. Yes, I am aware people do act like that in real life, but I also kinda have a problem when people use that as a broad dismissal of overacting. Another example is Mark Ruffalo in Spotlight. What he's doing is so at odds with the rest of the movie that it cripples it. If the movie were more modulated to his tone, maybe it wouldn't stand out so much, but it wasn't, so it does. And that's the case here. Ruffalo in Spotlight is the one I will definitely agree with you on. All of his choices stand out as choices and do not feel integrated with the stripped, natural feel of the film. Damn near every intonation feels self-conscious, especially in his big scene. Moore and Williams are both cases I can see where people have problems, but the former seems to me generally no bigger than other tonal aspects of the film (but I'm harsher on that film's 3rd act than most on here it seems) and the latter feels out-of-place in a way I feel works to the movie's strengths (being the disruptive force in the family that everyone needs to tiptoe around). Diff'rent strokes. Indeed, and by all means, don't take my disapproval of what Williams is doing as gospel for everyone else to follow. Obviously this is all subjective and people can have different takeaways that are equally valid. I thought she was by far the worst performance in the film and I do have to take it down a couple pegs on the Spielberg leader-board because it's so distracting, when almost everything else just hits the landing so beautifully. With that said, she is not lead and it's stupid they're trying to run that shit past us while putting Dano in supporting.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Dec 14, 2022 18:17:40 GMT
Ruffalo in Spotlight is the one I will definitely agree with you on. All of his choices stand out as choices and do not feel integrated with the stripped, natural feel of the film. Damn near every intonation feels self-conscious, especially in his big scene. Moore and Williams are both cases I can see where people have problems, but the former seems to me generally no bigger than other tonal aspects of the film (but I'm harsher on that film's 3rd act than most on here it seems) and the latter feels out-of-place in a way I feel works to the movie's strengths (being the disruptive force in the family that everyone needs to tiptoe around). Diff'rent strokes. Indeed, and by all means, don't take my disapproval of what Williams is doing as gospel for everyone else to follow. Obviously this is all subjective and people can have different takeaways that are equally valid. I thought she was by far the worst performance in the film and I do have to take it down a couple pegs on the Spielberg leader-board because it's so distracting, when almost everything else just hits the landing so beautifully. With that said, she is not lead and it's stupid they're trying to run that shit past us while putting Dano in supporting.FUCKING THANK YOU! I actually disagree with you on Williams’ performance, but thank you for co-signing this. If we’re gonna push Williams as Lead, then we need to push Dano as Lead.
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Post by stephen on Dec 14, 2022 18:18:56 GMT
Indeed, and by all means, don't take my disapproval of what Williams is doing as gospel for everyone else to follow. Obviously this is all subjective and people can have different takeaways that are equally valid. I thought she was by far the worst performance in the film and I do have to take it down a couple pegs on the Spielberg leader-board because it's so distracting, when almost everything else just hits the landing so beautifully. With that said, she is not lead and it's stupid they're trying to run that shit past us while putting Dano in supporting.FUCKING THANK YOU! I actually disagree with you on Williams, but thank you for co-signing this. If we’re gonna push Williams as Lead, then we need to push Dano as Lead I think Dano might have actually more screentime as well. He feels much more prevalent in the overall story despite Williams being louder. I'm gonna be very interested to see Mr. Stewart's screentime calculations on the film in the coming days.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Dec 14, 2022 18:25:58 GMT
FUCKING THANK YOU! I actually disagree with you on Williams, but thank you for co-signing this. If we’re gonna push Williams as Lead, then we need to push Dano as Lead I think Dano might have actually more screentime as well. He feels much more prevalent in the overall story despite Williams being louder. I'm gonna be very interested to see Mr. Stewart's screentime calculations on the film in the coming days. Exactly. I think she has more “impact” on him, but Dano has just as much focus devoted to him, and a lot of the events are pressed forward by his choices. That said, I still don’t think either of them are Leads, and Sammy’s the real focal point of the film (They shape him, but they don’t steal the attention away from him, so to say). But the way I’m seeing it, if you consider Williams as Lead, you have to consider Dano Lead as well, because he has just as much insight in the film.
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Dec 14, 2022 18:31:43 GMT
I don't know what I think of Williams. Like I'm sure it is very true to Spielberg's vision of his mother but the character herself is hard to watch so it is hard for me to be subjective on this. I don't really feel qualified to comment on their portrayal of his mother since I don't know anything about her. If that was what she was (is?) like who am I to judge?
Reminds me of watching Foxcatcher. Watching the movie I didn't know what to think of Carrell then I watched a documentary on DuPont and was like "oh..."
That being said she was supporting.
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Dec 14, 2022 18:33:08 GMT
I think Dano might have actually more screentime as well. He feels much more prevalent in the overall story despite Williams being louder. I'm gonna be very interested to see Mr. Stewart's screentime calculations on the film in the coming days. Exactly. I think she has more “impact” on him, but Dano has just as much focus devoted to him, and a lot of the events are pressed forward by his choices. That said, I still don’t think either of them are Leads, and Sammy’s the real focal point of the film (They shape him, but they don’t steal the attention away from him, so to say). But the way I’m seeing it, if you consider Williams as Lead, you have to consider Dano Lead as well, because he has just as much insight in the film. Honestly I think they just placed her there because it's a showy role. It's basically one big Oscar clip. They got it wrong but I see what they were thinking.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Dec 14, 2022 19:22:26 GMT
Exactly. I think she has more “impact” on him, but Dano has just as much focus devoted to him, and a lot of the events are pressed forward by his choices. That said, I still don’t think either of them are Leads, and Sammy’s the real focal point of the film (They shape him, but they don’t steal the attention away from him, so to say). But the way I’m seeing it, if you consider Williams as Lead, you have to consider Dano Lead as well, because he has just as much insight in the film. Honestly I think they just placed her there because it's a showy role. It's basically one big Oscar clip. They got it wrong but I see what they were thinking. In the long run, I think it ended up backfiring. Depending on how Oscar season goes, she may have gone from a sure thing to unintended sabotage.
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Post by JangoB on Dec 14, 2022 21:18:42 GMT
FUCKING THANK YOU! I actually disagree with you on Williams, but thank you for co-signing this. If we’re gonna push Williams as Lead, then we need to push Dano as Lead I think Dano might have actually more screentime as well. He feels much more prevalent in the overall story despite Williams being louder. I'm gonna be very interested to see Mr. Stewart's screentime calculations on the film in the coming days. Ask and you shall receive:
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Post by stephen on Dec 14, 2022 21:29:19 GMT
To be fair, how much of that screentime is Sam rewinding that footage over and over like he's Jim Garrison presenting the Zapruder film?
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Dec 14, 2022 22:07:31 GMT
I’m surprised that’s all that Lynch had. It felt like he was lighting that cigar for at least that long (which was hilarious)
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forksforest
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Quit your shit-spitting
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Post by forksforest on Dec 17, 2022 17:04:56 GMT
I don’t know how I feel overall. It was enjoyable, maybe a 7.5/10 but not the best coming of age, not the best depiction of family drama, not the best lead etcetc, a solid effort though. it definitely kept you on your toes and explored the nuances of some of the family relationships (especially the mom, perhaps even at the expense of the dad). I don’t know that I came away from it feeling any particular way about the main character/actor, which is why I’m on the fence, since the movie revolves around him and I don’t think he pulls us in as he should in a coming of age film.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2022 22:09:52 GMT
I was extremely offended that there wasn't a poster of Mogambo in John Ford's office.
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Post by countjohn on Dec 18, 2022 2:47:14 GMT
I was extremely offended that there wasn't a poster of Mogambo in John Ford's office. Mogambo might be my favorite Ford and I've seen it like four times but I have a feeling it was not one of his favorites of his own movies.
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avnermoriarti
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Friends say I’ve changed. They’re right.
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Post by avnermoriarti on Dec 18, 2022 17:17:52 GMT
In the scene with the bully after the screening of the senior ditch day film, did anyone else think that he was going to accuse Sammy of being gay? The film doesn't just make him look good, the camera really lingers on the dude's beach bod... it's like Top Gun-level homoeroticism. Yep, that scene was gay but I have a slightly different perspective. I thought the bully was mad/surprised because Sammy captured his true self, on the outside he looks like the golden boy in high school but for the way the camera observes Logan's behavior gives away it's just a facade but I was immediately relieved didn't go that route. Intentionally or not, it only highlights the points that scene is making.
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Dec 18, 2022 23:16:16 GMT
Didn’t realize how Andrew Garfield in TSN he was here. That kid is great.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2022 14:20:56 GMT
I was extremely offended that there wasn't a poster of Mogambo in John Ford's office. Mogambo might be my favorite Ford and I've seen it like four times but I have a feeling it was not one of his favorites of his own movies. Ava Gardner on John Ford: "The meanest man on earth. Thoroughly evil. I adored him."
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Dec 20, 2022 1:09:22 GMT
Forgot to mention one part that bothered me. In real life Spielberg tried to pass as gentile as a teen. Feel that would have been more interesting than bullies.
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