forksforest
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Quit your shit-spitting
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Post by forksforest on Jan 14, 2023 20:13:38 GMT
The more i think about it, the more i like it. A solid 8/10.
It was definitely a slog in the first half and my, what a slow build but i respect what Fields was trying to do, enjoy the nuanced look at these themes, and truly, Blanchett was made for this role.
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Post by MsMovieStar on Jan 24, 2023 13:07:47 GMT
Oh honeys, I've only just worked it out that Tar backwards spells Rat...
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VERITAS
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Post by VERITAS on Jan 24, 2023 22:53:26 GMT
Oh honeys, I've only just worked it out that Tar backwards spells Rat... MsMovieRats! How dare you... |
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Archie
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Eraserhead son or Inland Empire daughter?
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Post by Archie on Jan 26, 2023 22:00:38 GMT
Sinister, nuanced, and utterly magnetic filmmaking. I'm honestly in complete awe. Best film I've seen since COVID began.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 28, 2023 6:17:08 GMT
I'm trying to figure out where I stand with this. I was utterly transfixed in the first two big scenes - that first garrulous interview followed by that extended and beautifully awkward & confrontational Julliard scene (most interesting scene in the whole film) but the middle portion has practically no momentum and Lydia's downfall just sort of peters out in the final 40 minutes. Lydia is a brilliant characterization of a privileged, self-important, ruthless predator with a big ego and no self-awareness, and Blanchett's performance is ferocious tour de force. Where the movie fails is in the execution and screenplay.
Field deftly keys you into the patterns of Tar's problematic behavior (the scenes with Olga, the final scene with Francesca, Krista looming unseen in the background, the eerie nightmare sequences) but the process of bringing them together to initiate her downfall is what feels half-baked. I appreciated the irony of Tar's cancellation being propelled by something totally fake (right impulse, wrong reason!) but the very sinister implications of her predatory nature are too unexplored. Francesca just disappears from the film (the significant damage she does to Lydia's career is totally offscreen). Nina Hoss has a final sterile interaction with Lydia and then she too just disappears from the film, and for that matter Hoss in general felt really underutilized here. Lydia's deposed but where does that lead? We don't know. Probably nothing good, but we don't know. There's no reckoning with it because her abuse is so backgrounded and non-specific. By the time we get to that final moment of explosive violence it feels like an anticlimax, with the final 20 minutes serving as an extended and predictable comedown. Given how dark the character is, it almost feels like Field is letting her off too easy.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 23, 2023 8:49:52 GMT
Leonard Bernstein Estate Actually Responds to Affirm Lydia Tár Was His Student
The estate responded, in jest, to refute Todd Field calling into doubt whether his character had actually studied with the maestro.* In interviews for publications like Variety and The New Yorker, the director of Best Picture nominee “TÁR,” revealed that various references the main character Lydia Tár (played by Cate Blanchett) makes to studying under Bernstein over the course of the film are, at least in his opinion, lies she tells in order to further her own public image. “ It would be good for the Bernstein estate to let her lie about her association with Leonard Bernstein, even if she maybe never even studied with him, because the optics of that association would be very, very good, given that she’s a woman, given how Lenny’s life ended,” Field told The New Yorker. “But I don’t think she ever studied with Leonard Bernstein. If you look at the math — Lenny dies in what, 1990? When is she studying with Lenny Bernstein? I don’t think it happened.”
Now, however, Field’s account of his own creation’s biography is being disputed by Bernstein’s Estate. In response to his comments to The New Yorker, the estate submitted a letter to the magazine saying that, “In the spirit of the ongoing hubbub over the film,” they can confirm Tár received tutelage from Bernstein. The letter, signed by all three children of Bernstein, claims that Field’s character “was a teen-age prodigy whose talents were so formidable that she was granted special permission to be one of Bernstein’s conducting students at Tanglewood in the summer of 1990, during the final year of Bernstein’s life.”www.indiewire.com/2023/02/lydia-tar-leonard-bernstein-student-estate-confirms-1234812410/
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Post by Pavan on Mar 11, 2023 12:05:25 GMT
Tár talks about separating the art from artist and the other side of greatness without politicizing or generalizing too much. Initially a passive watch but the film slowly lured me into the psychological depths of its titular character. Todd Field should be commended that he skillfully handled such a complex character study but he had help from Cate who is fast becoming one of the greatest actresses of our time- 8/10
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Post by MsMovieStar on Mar 12, 2023 9:36:01 GMT
Oh honeys, I've written Todd Field and sent him my script outline for the Prequel... I play Lydia's younger chain smoking sister, Low Tar, who is slowly dying from emphysema (I love the sound of that word and get to say it several times in the movie). I've been working with a voice coach on my cough and have been watching Garbo in Camille and I've bought a packet of herbal cigarettes to master holding them.
It is a story of sibling rivalry and there's some great scenes of Low disrupting Linda's early concerts with her incessant coughing - in one scene, shot in close-up and in one continuous take I have to cough for a full 25 minutes (the movie runs to 4 1/2 hours). This has never been done before onscreen and I'll be attempting it without a stunt double...
In another, Linda pushes Low down a flight of stairs after finding out she's been using her Mahler score to make roll ups. Despite Low reaching out to Linda with her yellow, nicotine stained fingers, Linda rebuffs her as even from an early age she is monstrous! She goes on to do unspeakable things to her sister with her conductor's baton... accepts a scholarship from Philip Morris Inc... and as her career takes off internationally, each time she returns with bags full of cartons & cartons of cheap Duty Free cigarettes in order to kill Low quicker.
It raises important issues about Big Tobacco's Arts sponsorship, whether we should separate the artist from cigarette smoking, and whether I'll be next year's Oscar front runner (as Cate can't win two years in a row, those are the rules).
Tar II - No Filter
Coming soon (hopefully) to a theatre near you!
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Schiggy
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Post by Schiggy on Mar 12, 2023 9:44:54 GMT
I don't know, I just love the name Ms. Movies Tar and think maybe that could be used in the sequel somehow.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Mar 21, 2023 0:20:09 GMT
Inspired by this tweet, can anyone recommend some good essays, written or video, on the movie? I really need to watch the movie again. I’m excited! |
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Mar 21, 2023 1:20:31 GMT
I've been combing through the films from last year and I still have yet to see anything that comes close to this.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Mar 21, 2023 2:37:48 GMT
I've been combing through the films from last year and I still have yet to see anything that comes close to this. You won't find any. |
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Mar 21, 2023 19:45:07 GMT
I keep seeing comments from musicians especially people who work under conductors criticizing the movie’s accuracy with how Lydia conducts the orchestra, the debate about Bach’s music, etc.
I don’t know anything about that world, but I wonder how the supposed inaccuracy will factor into how the film is viewed a decade from now by film nerds. Does it matter if the movie was reductive in its view of Bach’s music or was ignorant? Should it matter?
Personally, idgaf, but seeing so many consistently negative comments over the last few months from musicians gave me pause
Edit: those are the criticisms I’ve seen from musicians, they’re not my criticisms. I don’t know anything about classical music or conducting
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Post by finniussnrub on Mar 21, 2023 19:49:22 GMT
I keep seeing comments from musicians especially people who work under conductors criticizing the movie’s accuracy with how Lydia conducts the orchestra, the debate about Bach’s music, etc. I don’t know anything about that world, but I wonder how the supposed inaccuracy will factor into how the film is viewed a decade from now by film nerds. Does it matter if the movie was reductive in its view of Bach’s music or was ignorant? Should it matter?Personally, idgaf, but seeing so many consistently negative comments over the last few months from musicians gave me pause It really shouldn't, when a huge chunk of the film is about how Tar is a liar therefore is an unreliable "genius". |
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Post by countjohn on Mar 22, 2023 0:02:11 GMT
I keep seeing comments from musicians especially people who work under conductors criticizing the movie’s accuracy with how Lydia conducts the orchestra, the debate about Bach’s music, etc. I don’t know anything about that world, but I wonder how the supposed inaccuracy will factor into how the film is viewed a decade from now by film nerds. Does it matter if the movie was reductive in its view of Bach’s music or was ignorant? Should it matter? Personally, idgaf, but seeing so many consistently negative comments over the last few months from musicians gave me pause When it first came out I heard the opposite, lots of music people talking about how on point it was particularly with all the cattiness. Don't know about specifically within classical music, but there are absolutely people who won't consume any media created by a "straight white man" out of spite so that wasn't some kind of woke strawman. |
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Mar 22, 2023 0:14:09 GMT
I don’t know anything about that world, but I wonder how the supposed inaccuracy will factor into how the film is viewed a decade from now by film nerds. Does it matter if the movie was reductive in its view of Bach’s music or was ignorant? Should it matter? I’m not sure how the movie is reductive in its view of Bach’s music since I wouldn’t say the movie even has a view of Bach’s music specifically. The film presents characters who have conflicting perspectives on Bach, but that doesn’t mean that the film itself sides with either POV. That particular scene is written, to me, in a deliberately gray manner where I think the characters are both right and wrong in different ways. The scene really uses Bach as a way to problematize the idea of the artistic canon more broadly and to question how we grapple with the work and fraught legacy of great artists in the midst of a changing culture (the classical music scene is still very divided on this issue). |
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Mar 22, 2023 0:45:53 GMT
I don’t know anything about that world, but I wonder how the supposed inaccuracy will factor into how the film is viewed a decade from now by film nerds. Does it matter if the movie was reductive in its view of Bach’s music or was ignorant? Should it matter? I’m not sure how the movie is reductive in its view of Bach’s music since I wouldn’t say the movie even has a view of Bach’s music specifically. The film presents characters who have conflicting perspectives on Bach, but that doesn’t mean that the film itself sides with either POV. That particular scene is written, to me, in a deliberately gray manner where I think the characters are both right and wrong in different ways. The scene really uses Bach as a way to problematize the idea of the artistic canon more broadly and to question how we grapple with the work and fraught legacy of great artists in the midst of a changing culture (the classical music scene is still very divided on this issue). Oh that wasn’t my personal critique of Bach haha. That’s what I’ve seen people say. I don’t know a thing about his music |
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futuretrunks
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Post by futuretrunks on Mar 22, 2023 1:08:49 GMT
I've been combing through the films from last year and I still have yet to see anything that comes close to this. Top Gun Maverick destroys this movie, just on the motherfucking page. Tar is pseudointellectual fluff. It's nice to see Blanchett commit to being nasty, but it's hardly a revelatory performance (not saying Yeoh was either, as I found Blanchett better). Nor are the aesthetics of this film remarkable. All of the Kubrick talk is crazy. This is more like what a Donnersmarck movie would look like if he had to rush to pay a bookie. |
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Post by Allenism on Apr 22, 2023 13:21:20 GMT
Brilliant choice for Field to end with a shot not even of Tar, but of the audience members who probaly aren't even aware of who she is. I interpreted it as a conveyance of how much of an afterthought she's become. |
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Post by Martin Stett on Jul 14, 2023 1:17:12 GMT
This is Todd Field's The Greatest Beer Run Ever  Okay, hear me out. TGBRE is the definition of unchallenging. It wants you, dear viewer, to pat yourself on the back for being a good liberal. "Boy, I sure am glad I am against that 'Nam business!" I said as I finished that movie and dried the many tears it elicited from me on my Hilary 2016 commemorative handkerchief. It is safe, trusting everybody to already agree with its premise and enjoy its bolstering of their own opinions on that nasty Vietnam War. On its surface, TÁR is the exact opposite of Farrelly's movie. And yet, I'd posit that they are far more similar than is immediately apparent. Field is very, very sure to portray Lydia from both sides at all time, so that the movie makes us think. This movie is very "of the moment" where TGBRE is not. There is no spoonfeeding of his ideas, his messages. He shows us this flawed character and asks us to form our own conclusions. The issue is that he is so careful to leave both sides open that he fails to have either side MAKE A DAMN POINT. The viewer will never think in this movie because of Field's refusal to open up a conversation and let any aspect of this woman or her environment challenge whatever views we held walking in. If you are against "cancel culture" and all this "diversity," you'll come out of this movie thinking the exact same thing as when you entered. If you are inclined to say #MeToo is the greatest political movement of our generation, you'll see exactly what you want to see in this film. The movie is so careful to avoid having an opinion that it doesn't have teeth. The movie is safe - it expects viewers to pat themselves on the back for agreeing with whatever beliefs they held going into it. It is well acted, the lighting evokes a great sense of dread and paranoia, it is all very professional. But it is nothing more than a mirror to your own views and opinions. (It is still one of the ten best movies of the year that I've seen, because 2022 is so godawful.) |
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Nikan
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Post by Nikan on Jan 14, 2024 19:42:34 GMT
Everyone's being so eloquent and thorough in this thread, I love it. It's like the movie's so good that it pushes people to express themselves in a special way  Totally want to echo this  it's frustrating when one's vocab or energy doesn't do justice to what he wants to communicate. Do we have a deeper single-film thread?... Here are some random thoughts I gotta get rid of... - *It's great that "the education of Max" scene is an uninterrupted long-take... cause afterwards we do get an edited version of it. Such a smart little decision. - breaking down the film into three sections. The first one is the richest and the most unique. Totally agree that the writing in general (and especially of it's protagonist) tops TWBB. Not only does Cate do it justice (and beyond; the moment she mentions right v. left hand I couldn't take my eyes off/ the ear; wonderful moment when she's driving - with Petra in the back - and the sound design makes sure too, that you're living the life of this particular music conductor), but the character itself is an examplorary role. Any actor would love to have an opportunity like this. She and Field create such a 3-dimentional, "real" creature ( and the environment around her) you're gonna remember her. for. ever. - Second one is... the one that I'm the most eager to see how'll turn out on the re-watch. It is the one that demands attention and answers the most; like who did play around with the metronome at night? the ghosts? what else could they do?... Lynch and Polanski do this kind of going back and forth between reality and a dissorted headspace sequenes more effortlessly... THIS is where I think PTA's film does better, it feels like a more "intact" piece when it comes to tone... and on the politics side, while always provocative - It's great that Lydia shows just enough flirty gestures to suggest that she may in fact be a predator - I was feeling Field is cornering her a little too much, and the downfall is taking place a little too quickly. I thought it was out of it's tricks - finally - but then... - the third part begins, which is going back home (great!) and then Asia... where I guess it risked losing the viewer the most. it could've felt far-fetched, but I've believed her so much at this point I could've followed her to Mars. I hontestly don't remember when was the last time I thought of what will happen to a character right after a film ends this much, like she's a real functioning human being in my head now. And of course the final performance which is both hilarious and... oddly inspiring? Like Lydia's drive knows no end. I feel awkward to say I was happy for her (no I ain't blind to the bad of her). Quite a film... |
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it's frustrating when one's vocab or energy doesn't do justice to what he wants to communicate. Do we have a deeper single-film thread?...