|
Post by mikediastavrone96 on Sept 29, 2022 4:35:13 GMT
This movie hurts so much. Ana de Armas is transcendent, an absolute triumph. Every opinion, from those calling it an exploitative mess to those calling it a masterpiece, has a worthwhile argument.
I want to give this some time to digest but for now I lean more positively. Could see this movie aging pretty well with distance from the discourse; that is if the discourse doesn't completely bury it.
|
|
SZilla
Badass
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 995
|
Post by SZilla on Sept 29, 2022 5:13:44 GMT
I just finished watching it as well. De Armas was phenomenal. She's never reached these heights before and if the movie wasn't so "controversial" I'd say she'd easily be in the running for the Best Actress oscar this year. I loved the soundtrack and the cinematography too. I usually prefer my historical or biographical films to be as close to the truth as possible, but this film (and the book it's based on) was from the get go open about it being fictional, so it didn't bother me as much. Is it exploitative? Like mikediastavrone96 said above, I can see a good argument for it, but I think the whole film is meant to be a Lynchian nightmare about fame and "sex symbols" and the exploitations that come with it. I know Dominik's recent comments were gross, but I don't get the sense from the film views her negatively at all. She's a tragic figure. It could be described as "gaze-y" but that feels more like a condemnation of how the media/business treated her. There's one scene that really didn't sit well with me in that I felt it maybe went a bit too far the BJ scene with JFK . There's one particular sequence in this film during the second hour that scared the crap out of me, but I won't spoil anything. I might need it to marinate some more, but as of right now I think I'd give it a high 7/10.
|
|
|
Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 29, 2022 8:20:29 GMT
Ana de Armas in this has to be one of the best performances in a bad movie ever because... yikes. She was the only thing that kept me watching this interminable slog of a film. Heavy-handed, shallow, one-note tragedy porn masquerading as deep psychological examination, at times even unintentionally comical... it beats its subject matter into the ground to the point of exhaustion long before the end credits. This is nothing more than simplistic psychology used to decorate what’s really just fetishistic, self-indulgent victimization-of-Marilyn-Monroe fan fic. I went into this knowing that it was biographical fiction, and I don’t usually care that much about historical accuracy in movies, but part of what’s infuriating about this film is the fact that it completely ignores the sexual abuse she experienced during her childhood as a way to inform her adult psychology - it's the most evidence we have of that kind of abuse throughout her life. Any assaults in her adulthood are completely speculative, but instead of using the actual evidence of abuse as the film’s dramatic thrust, the film decides to just make shit up instead. I suppose this vitriol is directed toward the source material just as much as the film, because it’s literally co-opting an actual person’s life to channel the author’s own fetishistic misery fantasy that reduces Marilyn Monroe to a tragic, helpless sex bot with daddy issues. It’s not just weird, it’s unethical, irresponsible art. This movie is trash. 2/10 for Ana de Armas’ performance The music during the scene where she’s looking for her wallet around the house reminded me of Journey’s “Faithfully,” and I thought about how the scene would have been so much better if that song were used there instead...
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Sept 29, 2022 10:48:27 GMT
I am pretty sure it is brilliant......... but more sure that it isn't very good .....de Armas is much like Lange in Frances where you're kind of in awe but it's not integrated with the effect the movie about the central character is having on you.....
The best stuff occurs early on and then it repeats in tone, beat and feel and grinds you down in its oppressive length and like Spencer - also not great btw - but less "offensive" because it's more restrained - this is basically a form of Feminist Celebrity Porn where the star - not coincidentally a white, rich, idolized by millions Queen is seen as "only" a victim.
It's just tiresome in how it plays but not to talk about which is much better than how it plays.....:
As a directorial visionary movie - this sets up a marvelous contrast that it doesn't deliver on which is a shame - Julianne Nicholson up through the scene where she's visited in the hospital is not only sort of greatish and her presence in those early scenes allows the director to make several points visually:
1. There's the scene where she walks by the photo of Marilyn's father and her reflection floats by us - like the way you remember a fleeting memory.
2. Similarly - the way the fires on the car she drives are shown on the car as small fires - act as a kind of simmering madness that captures Norma Jeane's own "Hell" - not her mother's necessarily - though her too - and Nicholson of course has to verbalize that because the movie can't let visual readings stand on their own.
3. The way Marilyn uses her memories to draw the performance in Don't Bother To Knock
4. The cut from Nicholson holding her shaking hands to Marilyn doing the same in DBtK is a great touch ......showing again the endless link between trauma, mental health and "Art" and what Marilyn "described" verbally in #3
That is plenty in the first what 20 minutes (?) - and the movie has several others over its 900 hour runtime but they are never in contrast - they are only as more .......and without a switch in tone......it's all too much before that switch goes of in your head that says "Enough".....
Neither a masterpiece or a mess to me......I cared very much at first - and much less the more Marilyn became removed from Norma Jeane......
|
|
|
Post by thomasjerome on Sept 29, 2022 11:04:20 GMT
Ana De Armas is not good in this at all. Making the same cute, on the verge of tears face through the whole film is not really impressive. It's not necessarily her fault because the direction and writing are mostly terrible. I cringed every time she said "daddy!!". She doesn't capture the essence of Marilyn because the movie doesn't care about Marilyn or her legacy or her career. As for Norma Jeane, it is just fan-fiction. I'm also totally okay with movie taking liberties with a real life figure but when we have an actually interesting and complex person, why give us a less interesting, made-up stories about her? The themes it explores are obviously timely but the film has zero subtlety and supposedly horrific scenes sometimes felt comical. Not all of it sucks though, some of the stuff with Arthur Miller was fine and the score was okay too. The rest was a pretentious mess.
|
|
|
Post by HELENA MARIA on Sept 29, 2022 11:34:43 GMT
It was one of my most anticipated films of the year....So disappointed and frustrated with the result ! This was so difficult to get through! An endless repetition of misery and tragedy ! Ana is gorgeous to look at of course , but her performance is average at best. The whole movie is just so...disjointed. I usually dig Andrew Dominik's films but this is by far his weakest work. What a missed opportunity ! I guess you could definitely check it out if you have a lot of time to waste.
3/10
|
|
|
Post by Joaquim on Sept 29, 2022 21:48:06 GMT
I’ve heard lots of comparisons to Fire Walk With Me and that certainly has me very intrigued
|
|
|
Post by JangoB on Sept 29, 2022 21:53:11 GMT
Even though I am a bit conflicted on this one (who isn't?), for me the pendulum leans more towards the positive side. The movie definitely feels like a rougher and more bloated cousin of last year's "Spencer" - both are first and foremost mood pieces which say goodbye to reality and try to paint a cinematic picture of their subjects' psyche as imagined by the filmmakers. But another comparison that quickly came to my mind was the great "Fire Walk With Me". I'm not aware of Dominik's relationship with that film but it seems to me that "Blonde" was his attempt at making something very similar, right down to the score which frequently apes Badalamenti's terrific contributions to Lynch's oeuvre and works best while doing exactly that (the vocal parts really didn't do it for me). Now, Dominik is definitely no Lynch but to me his nightmarish take on Monroe's state of mind felt rather effective. For the most part.
Even though I used the phrase 'state of mind', it has to be said that the movie isn't really concerned with exploring that mind - something that put a lot of people off. But considering the type of movie it is, I don't quite understand those who longed for some in-depth depictions of Monroe's approach to her work and business practices or, for example, her activism. "Blonde" doesn't present itself as an ultimate and final word on her life in any way, shape or form so to me its almost endless focus on the darkness is as valid a take as any other. Especially since everyone involved emphasizes that it's a work of fiction and should be seen as such.
Dominik has said that what mainly interested him was images and a work of images he hath created. Sometimes those images are striking and powerful, other times they're repetetive and yes, a bit exploitative. One can't be blamed for going gaga for Ana but does she really have to spend so much screentime in the state of undress? Does the blowjob closeup really have to last about four hours? Does the camera really need to dive inside a vagina and have puke splashed all over it? Not quite. Excess is certainly something this film partakes in and I think it would've worked better without those attention-grabbing additions because the chilling emotional landscape it creates is truly sufficient enough. Most of the questionable choices occur in the latter part of the film (I suppose this is akin to modern indie horrors obligatorily going bonkers in their third acts - which is kinda fitting since this often feels like a horror movie) so for the majority of it I was actually pretty surprised that it led to such outcry. And then the screaming men's faces started distorting (which looked unintentionally funny btw - I used to do shit like that with my school pics when I discovered Photoshop as a kid) and the abundance of negative reactions began to make sense. I wouldn't say the movie falls off the rails after that but it certainly toys with veering in that direction. The last half-hour or so feels the most like exploitation but it ultimately leads to a fairly heartbreaking finale which course corrects the experience and brings it to a solid close.
Even though I've seen the film I'm still not sure whether Dominik feels much empathy towards the person he portrays - he doesn't seem to despise her either but I still feel an arm's length distance between him and his Norma Jeane. But that side of things is thankfully covered by Ana de Armas in a performance I can only call staggering. Prior to the viewing I was curious as to who would end up the real star of this - the director or his actress. And even though the former does pretty much everything so that we'd notice him, the one who ends up stealing the film and leaving the biggest mark is de Armas. Even if Dominik does ask her to stay in the state of teary sadness far too often, the genius of her performance (to me anyway) is that she reaches a place of some kind of emotional purity. And she achieves that despite having to do a very specific voice and having to replicate Monroe's movements, mannerisms and occasionally even bits of movies. At times "Blonde" may have started losing itself in the forest of suspect taste but the emotional hook that is de Armas's acting never failed to pull me in. There's one particular moment which I'd describe as just plain unforgettable - it's the scene where Monroe arrives at a premiere and gets the news that someone special is gonna be waiting in her hotel room. Her reaction is perhaps the most incredible and the most touching bit of acting I've seen so far this year. The way her face reverts back to its innocent, fragile, childhood self upon her hearing those words and believing that it may be her father... tremendous.
I must add that Adrien Brody was pretty damn great in his small part too - in fact I would've loved to see a whole film about Monroe & Miller with those two in the lead roles. Of course it's also a segment of the movie which, unlike others, does have some light and kindness in it so I'm not surprised that it resonated with me in that way. Just the mere fact that I caught myself thinking 'Why couldn't it have stayed this way?' means that the film did find its way into my... well, I wanted to say heart but actually I'm not sure. All I know is that it managed to have an effect on me. Warts and all (not mine, dammit). Sometimes it moved me, sometimes it was disturbing, sometimes I felt yucky. It's certainly an experience.
|
|
havok2
Junior Member
Posts: 396
Likes: 184
|
Post by havok2 on Sept 29, 2022 23:30:22 GMT
The film is GREAT. Yet again, Dominik has toyed with fraud cinephags and film twitter just like he did ten years ago with Killing Them softly. Just look at the usual suspects who are upset. Wokefans and Capeshit children.
I couldn't be happier this film is getting the reception it does because I bet that's what he wanted too. Great films don't become a reddit hugbox when released (see Nolan/Fincher/Villeneuve/Everything Everywhere at All Times or whatever), no they have to disrupt first. The final scene will forever be on our collective memories.
|
|
|
Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 30, 2022 1:30:50 GMT
The final scene will forever be on our collective memories. It will certainly be on mine for how hilarious it is.
|
|
|
Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 30, 2022 1:32:18 GMT
Also, I don't know if I can stand to hear the word "daddy" again for a while...
|
|
|
Post by HELENA MARIA on Sept 30, 2022 1:36:08 GMT
I’ve heard lots of comparisons to Fire Walk With Me and that certainly has me very intrigued Such a pity that it's not even half as good as FWWM !
|
|
|
Post by futuretrunks on Sept 30, 2022 2:21:49 GMT
I liked that waterfall transition, but the movie is largely pointless. And Ana gets Marilyn's mannerisms down often, but she still sounds like Ana.
|
|
|
Post by pessimusreincarnated on Sept 30, 2022 4:29:08 GMT
Major miscalculation on whoever’s decision it was to sell this to Netflix. This is the complete opposite of easily-digestible streaming entertainment, sure to baffle, anger, or simply bore the casual viewer who’ll stumble upon this after lazily scrolling through the “new release” section, and think to themselves, “oh yeah, that new Marilyn Monroe biopic is out, might as well watch it!”.
Because Blonde is not a Marilyn Monroe biopic. It features Monroe, of course, and glosses over some elements of her real life, but it’s far more concerned with painting a portrait of a soulless, nihilistic Hollywood machine that uses, abuses, and spits out its victims like gum onto terrazzo concrete. There’s nary a moment of levity, nor light to be seen in Andrew Dominik’s dreamlike (nightmare-like), Malickian tome of cinematic misery. Monroe’s iconic status as a fresh-faced, starry-eyed sex symbol is transformed into a makeup-smeared, exploited and abandoned vision of despair. The nudity and sex on display here is not intended to titillate, rather it is used to reflect on her stripped away, naked persona. She is any of the abused and disregarded Hollywood starlets who are forced to run the gauntlet of casting couch auditions, have their intelligence mocked and spirits broken.
This is of course, by its nature described above, not an easy film to watch. We don’t want to view, much less remember, Monroe in such a light. Admittedly, some scenes go too far (the JFK scene in particular) in depicting the abuse, and at a marathon length of two hours and forty minutes, the relentlessness of it all is bound to wear on many viewers, even those who are more open to seeing this kind of risky, liberties-taking depiction of such a beloved icon. But for those open-minded enough to brave it, there’s undeniable filmmaking craft to marvel at, as Dominick presents his most simultaneously lyrical and visual work as a director to date. The camera swoops and swirls and swoons around Marilyn one moment, and boxes her in in the next. The lighting shines onto her with the intensity of a thousand cameras going off, before withdrawing and forcing her into darkness. The aspect ratios shift along with her mental states. And so on and so forth.
Ana De Armas is giving an exhaustively committed performance here. Her Marilyn takes a back seat to her Norma Jeanne, a precocious, thoughtful, unjustly cast aside soul. Her expressive eyes and wide smile capture the essence of her subject, even if her accent occasionally gets in the way. I don’t believe there’s a single moment where she’s not onscreen, and she’s commanding every second of it. An Oscar seems unlikely at this point given the films reception, but it wouldn’t be underserved.
|
|
|
Post by JangoB on Sept 30, 2022 12:30:18 GMT
Major miscalculation on whoever’s decision it was to sell this to Netflix. This is the complete opposite of easily-digestible streaming entertainment, sure to baffle, anger, or simply bore the casual viewer who’ll stumble upon this after lazily scrolling through the “new release” section, and think to themselves, “oh yeah, that new Marilyn Monroe biopic is out, might as well watch it!”. I actually think the Netflix release is a smart decision. The movie would've absolutely died in theatres, both because of its nature and the NC-17 rating. Whereas on Netflix the rating doesn't really matter - there're no showtimes, no concerns about losing money and screens. Isn't "Blonde" #1 on Netflix right now? Yes, the casual viewer is bound to hate it but hey, at least he/she watches it and that raises awareness. Which wouldn't have happened in theatres at all. I'm honestly not sure why there aren't more NC-17 films on streaming platforms tbh. Seems like the place to do it.
|
|
dazed
Based
Posts: 2,613
Likes: 1,776
|
Post by dazed on Sept 30, 2022 18:32:06 GMT
i loved this. ana was mesmerizing, cinematography was beautiful, the music was lovely, and dominiks visuals were great. although i can see the argument of it being exploitative and agree a couple of scenes went too far (namely the JFK scene) and hated the use of the word 'daddy', ultimately the story and movie moved me.
|
|
|
Post by MsMovieStar on Sept 30, 2022 18:51:28 GMT
Oh honeys, does anyone remember the Ashley Judd / Mira Sorvino Marilyn Monroe biopic which had Judd's Norma Jean claiming that she's gonna f uck her way to the top and then Sorvino's Marilyn struggling with fame, booze, & pills before the ultimate showdown between Norma Jean & Marilyn?
As bizarre as the above scenario sounds at least it was an entertaining and interesting take.
Blonde is dull: It's a series of disjointed scenes lacking any cohesive narrative. The script is awful. Overly concerned with the visual presentation, I felt the high contrast b/w looked more like Herb Ritts 1990s photos of Madonna than evoking the 1950s and the continuous switching between color and monochrome distracting. Armas does her best Monroe impersonation but it isn't enough to save this boring mess. For all the hype, it really is a waste of time.
I couldn't help wondering how Blonde would have turned out if it had been in Netflix's darling, Ryan Murphy's hands. Campy but at least entertaining.
A Blonde Borefest 4/10
|
|
|
Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Oct 1, 2022 0:53:06 GMT
Liked it more than I didn’t. Ana De Armas and the Cinematography both absolutely deserve noms. Didn’t find De Armas’s accent to be too distracting overall. Definitely some odd decisions and agree with the consensus that the JFK scene was a bit much, but I also didn’t feel anything here warranted an NC-17 rating.
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Oct 1, 2022 19:33:26 GMT
This is one of those things where I knew it would be polarizing and I was expecting to be on the other side, so my expectations were so low I ended up kind of liking it. Thought I might even turn it off half way in so I wasn't paying that much attention at first but then realized it was alright after a certain point. Some of it is that I hadn't been that impressed with AdA before, but she's terrific here and I would not mind a win depending on how the other contenders do. I liked Michelle Williams despite that movie's issues but she AdA absolutely comes out ahead. Good to see Brody in something significant again and he's good too. Cinematography, PD, and costumes are all top notch and should be contenders. The big problem is that the script is kind of a mess, especially after a certain point. It had momentum through the end of the DiMaggio marriage but then becomes so fragmentary. I know a lot of that is representing Marilyn's deteriorating mental state but something can still be happening in the movie even if we're seeing it from Marilyn's perspective. Didn't need to be 3 hours long either, could have easily trimmed 45 minutes. I'm also glad to hear this is being marketed as fictional. Not even a Monroe expert but even I was noticing things all the time that categorically did not happen as shown in the movie and a bunch of other things that I seriously doubt happened and felt made up. If they're admitting it's not supposed to be the true story than they're good. As for the sexual content, definitely agree the JFK blow job scene just felt like cheap shock value to get articles and clicks since it's Kennedy. Have no idea what the point was. Other than that didn't really feel like any of it was inappropriate although you also could have toned it down slightly for an R rating and I don't think it loses anything. I think a 7/10 for me. Could see it sneaking into the lower end of my top ten if the rest of the year isn't that strong which I'm not expecting it to be. Also, I don't know if I can stand to hear the word "daddy" again for a while... A survey one time showed that like half of women have a desire to call their partner daddy during sex, but not all the time, geez. Liked it more than I didn’t. Ana De Armas and the Cinematography both absolutely deserve noms. Didn’t find De Armas’s accent to be too distracting overall. Definitely some odd decisions and agree with the consensus that the JFK scene was a bit much, but I also didn’t feel anything here warranted an NC-17 rating. A shot of her with a dick in her mouth seems pretty inarguably X/NC-17 rated. I’ve heard lots of comparisons to Fire Walk With Me and that certainly has me very intrigued There's a few Lynchian horror movie bits but unfortunately that is rare. Gives a little taste of what Lynch's aborted Monroe movie in the 80's might have been like, though.
|
|
chris3
Badass
I just ordered a slice of pumpkin pie...
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 1,045
|
Post by chris3 on Oct 2, 2022 16:42:26 GMT
You guys are nuts. This was like if Fire Walk with Me was directed by Malick. 10 out of fucking 10, you can bet your ass this baby is getting reappraised down the line once puritanism and "but the movie is problematic!" and "It's so LOOOONG!" and "Oh, artsy flourishes? Interesting filmmaking? How PRETENTIOUS" type asinine discourse finally starts to lose its vogue. This will find its audience of cool people.
|
|
|
Post by MsMovieStar on Oct 2, 2022 18:53:36 GMT
You guys are nuts. This was like if Fire Walk with Me was directed by Malick. 10 out of fucking 10, you can bet your ass this baby is getting reappraised down the line once puritanism and "but the movie is problematic!" and "It's so LOOOONG!" and "Oh, artsy flourishes? Interesting filmmaking? How PRETENTIOUS" type asinine discourse finally starts to lose its vogue. This will find its audience of cool people. Oh honey, I am the cool person. You are mistaken. I've watched this slide down in ratings on IMDb to a 5.7 (which is like a Nicole flop, although she has got a 5.2 but we'll see if Blonde keeps falling)... Unlike the JFK scene, she's not gonna be coming back up.
|
|
|
Post by ibbi on Oct 2, 2022 19:20:30 GMT
You guys are nuts. This was like if Fire Walk with Me was directed by Malick. 10 out of fucking 10, you can bet your ass this baby is getting reappraised down the line once puritanism and "but the movie is problematic!" and "It's so LOOOONG!" and "Oh, artsy flourishes? Interesting filmmaking? How PRETENTIOUS" type asinine discourse finally starts to lose its vogue. This will find its audience of cool people. I think to compare this movie to Fire Walk with Me you should be forced to change your name to chris1.5 and be made to remove your avatar Comparing them (and I know you are far from the first one to make the comparison) would be like comparing FWWM to Lord of the Rings because... They both have a ring in them. This film is so shallow and one note (you could probably pick single scenes in Fire Walk with Me with more detail in them) and the 'artsy flourishes' and 'interesting filmmaking', and leaning on the iconography are polishing the turd so hard. I'd think the opposite is more likely to be true, less FWWM type elevating reappraisal, more Oscar season-y 'WTF were we thinking?'
|
|
|
Post by finniussnrub on Oct 2, 2022 21:08:18 GMT
I think the original cut might've had a full hour of CGI pregnant womb shots and Netflix convinced Dominik to compromise.
|
|
|
Post by Miles Morales on Oct 2, 2022 22:35:36 GMT
|
|
|
Post by stephen on Oct 5, 2022 0:58:23 GMT
I do think the Fire Walk With Me comparisons are interesting, but I don't think they hold much water here. This film grossly infantilized its subject to the point of numb repetition, and by the halfway point I found it extremely laborious. Which is a real shame, because the craft at hand (the cinematography, editing, and score especially) is exquisite... but it does nothing to obfuscate what seems a very pointed and caustic disdain for Marilyn Monroe.
Ana de Armas is put through the paces, often past the brink of unnecessary and into the realm of cruel. But she really is impeccable in the role; the accent slips really only served to strength the conceit that the role of Marilyn was an identity Norma Jeane had crafted for herself, but not a watertight one.
I dunno, I wanted to give Dominik the benefit of the doubt on this one, but this film felt like a bludgeon against a lost and broken soul and one final, brutal attempt at wringing the last drops of her dignity from her memory.
|
|