Jessica Lange or Michelle Pfeiffer?

Much more a fan of Michelle Pfeiffer. I really am not a big fan of Lange's style of acting. I genuinely think anything Lange can do, Pfeiffer can do much better, whereas I don't think the opposite is true at all.

I've only seen Tootsie, about an hour of Blue Sky, about 30 minutes of Frances, Cape Fear, Broken Flowers, and All that Jazz, (hardly a comprehensive selection of her work). Pfeiffer by far.

Correct.

Why is Close in the Lange/Streep bracket tho?   Close is closer to Pfeiffer than Lange and Streep who are more like Sandy Dennis, Gena Rowlands, and Kim Stanley.

Close and Pfeiffer are basically similar imo.   Pop culture entity early on in their career.   Done some major zeitgeist oriented movies that average people actually saw.   Not French Lieutenant's Woman, Sophie's Choice, Frances, Blue Sky and the movies most commoners don't care about.

If people define Pfeiffer by Batman Returns and Close by Fatal Attraction or Dangerous Liaisons, it affirms their status in pop culture.

Jessica Lange....... by a lot tbh .......

I can see people liking Pfeiffer more than Lange - but on a talent level......Lange is an example of that extreme type of thing that either leaves you red hot loving it or ice cold hating it..... Pfeiffer is nowhere near able to hit Lange's heights to me........instead she gets overly rewarded for the most banal metric of measuring an actor - "consistency".....which is nice if you have it but waaaaaaaaaaaaay down on my list.

It's not just that Lange has a Triple Crown where Pfeiffer has none of those - though that's a pretty big hint - it's that Lange's Triple Crown is probably the most impressive of any American female ......her Tony win was entirely unexpected - in fact - you'd have thought she'd flop in Long Day's Journey Into Night and that technically she couldn't do it - until you saw her do it......instead she triumped and used a mastery of technique that she often throws away when she wants too - although before you'd have said a technique she doesn't always master. Even the reviews were mixed - not everybody "got" it but those who did really got it which was her intent.......and what she often did.

I've said this before - her background was in the Arts but not precisely acting - she had theater training - but she also had mime, photography, dance, modeling .....she lived in Europe........her whole sensibility was a very American beauty and very not-American POV.........she uses a lot and pulls from a lot of mediums aside from acting and when it works for her (it doesn't always) - she is a really special actress.

No American actress before Lange was as aware of how she would come across on camera visually and how to mask herself visually too - she really understood how much power the camera has and how to exploit the camera.

Btw both of these actress are like O'Toole after the 60s, Denzel Washington, Geraldine Page, Glenn Close etc - as being (somewhat) held back by their (relatively) weak filmographies .......but even in Lange's patchy filmography there is not, imo a better performance in a weaker film (ever?) than hers in Frances .....

Lange is so misunderstood that it just isn't among film buffs - some critics don't get her either - she has 1 BAFTA nod for example .....but the two best English language female performances so far this year imo - (especially) Maika Monroe in Watcher and Aubrey Plaza in some scenes in Emily The Criminal remind me of Lange ........or Lange could have certainly played Monroe's role.

I see "Lange moves" pop up all the time by actresses - you don't really see someone evoking Pfeiffer unless it's her (gorgeous) looks .........Lange is a way more influential actress because she's weirder and comes at you in odd angles ...........she's just interesting in a different way.

pacinoyes - Hm... I'm not so sure (re. Pfeiffer's influence). To me, Jodie Comer in The Last Duel felt hugely evocative of Pfeiffer... Did anyone else feel this way? 

Well, one is generally considered one of the most beautiful women of her era, and the other is quite unattractive...

And, this is not directed to you, but could people in this thread type PFEIFFER 's surname correctly, please?

If you think about it, Lange's filmography is honestly quite terrible, especially considering how long her career is. I feel like her only beloved films are Tootsie (which isn't even that popular) and All That Jazz. I would definitely say out of her peers (Meryl Streep, Susan Sarandon, Sissy Spacek, Glenn Close, Sigourney Weaver etc.) her filmography is easily the most forgotten simply because those films are just not very good. Her legacy is mostly in tv (esp. AHS) and theatre. 

Pfeiffer on the other hand has Scarface, Dangerous Liaisons, The Age of Innocence, Batman Returns, and some more minor ones like The Fabulous Baker Boys, and she was good or great in all of them. I mean, none of these are Shawshank Redemption level of iconic, but still, it's a pretty strong dialogue.

So yeah, Pfeiffer takes it on a cakewalk imo.

Lol... you mention TV but you don't even mention Feud which is better than any film performance in the last 5 years? 

So Audrey Hepburn is better than Marilyn Monroe because she has the better filmography?   BTW, Marilyn >>>> Audrey - for anyone who hasn't seen The Misfits.   I guess Cary Grant is better than Peter O'Toole?   Former has a much better filmography.

Yeah, filmography matters - but it's a tie-breaker - it's not really the "main thing" when - for example - one actress has more major awards than any American actress ever across all mediums and the other has 0 awards in those same categories. Now I know awards are not everything and both their filmographies are weak sauce but .......to mention that - as it's come up here - is sort of cherry picking of facts to me.

Also - influence in Pfeiffer's favor is cherry picking a bit too - people tend to take from performances that either are singular or get awards acclaim - that's Lange on both counts......and while I can see Comer evoking Pfeiffer in Last Duel - I'm not so sure, that I don't just see a beautiful woman looking like another beautiful woman  ..........there are elements in Watcher and Emily The Criminal where actual acting choices to me were very Lange.... I'm not really sure how anyone thinks Pfeiffer is THAT singular ........I mean if I was a director and told an actress to go "full Pfeiffer" she would look at me like "What does that mean?" ........if I asked her to go "full Lange" .......she may devour the entire set tbh.  

Ok, to each his own. But in my opinion, Marilyn in The Misfits > Audrey's entire filmography. And I find Marilyn's movies more entertaining too, including Gentleman Prefers Blondes and Bus Stop and Clash By Night

Well, not when they actually did the movie - Lange is older and she had hardened in a way that works against that

Lange can do a kind of comedy - and when she was younger she had that light (and sexy) touch - she has an Oscar for a comedy ffs - but in general she kind of typecast herself out a role like that by then .......though you never know with her - her Tony and AHS Emmy were both surprising successes..... for all my praise of her she's obviously "high highs"/"low lows" which makes guessing her in roles pretty tough imo....

True on Shirley Booth that of course is the problem of......... facts, damn facts and statistics.......grrrrrr .......but heck I sometimes stumble across "Hazel" and watch it ..........like all kind-hearted people do