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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2022 0:39:29 GMT
Would you guys say that Meryl Streep is generally considered the greatest living actress in your country? The same going for Robert De Niro and Al Pacino for actors? Thank you for your feedback and insight!
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Mar 31, 2022 1:21:05 GMT
Meryl Streep without a doubt. She's the lazy automatic name even from people who don't watch her movies. lol. With actor, it's a little split between those two and Denzel Washington, I would say.
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Post by mhynson27 on Mar 31, 2022 1:59:36 GMT
Pretty much exactly what Carrie said. Maybe chuck in DDL and Hanks.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Mar 31, 2022 5:19:45 GMT
Among general public, she's surely well known and appreciated. But I suppose most people have their own country's great actress. I think Italy has Sophia Loren for instance who has more appeal as people can actually appreciate how she delivers her lines.
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Post by stabcaesar on Mar 31, 2022 5:30:31 GMT
No. I don't think people are particularly aware of her beyond The Devil Wears Prada which is played on tv all the time here.
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avnermoriarti
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Post by avnermoriarti on Mar 31, 2022 6:07:59 GMT
Among critics/movie people her legacy surely has some weight, particularly her 70/80s work but given her latest film/tv contributions she's seen as a parody of herself. While I see where that criticism comes from, there's a reason why I don't consume/engage with that kind of people, it really needs to have a Taxi Driver, Godfather, Dog Day Afternoon or Goodfellas in their filmography to be worthy of conversations....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2022 12:59:51 GMT
I think Italy has Sophia Loren for instance who has more appeal as people can actually appreciate how she delivers her lines. Meryl x SophiaThe Talks: Sophia Loren once said she hates you because you stole her part in The Bridges of Madison County with your acting skills.
Meryl Streep: Well, I don't think Sophia hates me because I just met her for the first time in my life at the last Academy Awards and she gave me the most wonderful embrace and she made me very happy. I am such a fan of hers and a great admirer of hers and always have been and so is my husband. He has never recovered from that moment where she came out of the sea. (Laughs)
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Post by DeepArcher on Mar 31, 2022 13:26:08 GMT
Tbh as an American, I feel like I hear DDL's name thrown out as the de fact greatest living actor far more than De Niro and Pacino. He seems to have that "male Meryl Streep" thing where even people who haven't seen his movies still have this impression of him as the GOAT...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2022 1:56:26 GMT
Pretty much exactly what Carrie said. Maybe chuck in DDL and Hanks. Does the Australian press not really play up Cate Blanchett, Judy Davis, and/or Nicole Kidman? Or is it still Meryl?
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Post by mhynson27 on Apr 2, 2022 5:02:08 GMT
Pretty much exactly what Carrie said. Maybe chuck in DDL and Hanks. Does the Australian press not really play up Cate Blanchett, Judy Davis, and/or Nicole Kidman? Or is it still Meryl? In regards to the press, yeah, Blanchett and Kidman get a lot of talk. Amongst the general public, I'd still say Meryl is considered the GOAT.
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Post by futuretrunks on Apr 2, 2022 5:18:05 GMT
In all countries, in all seasons, DiCaprio is the GOAT.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 2, 2022 14:01:33 GMT
I'm obviously an American as you can tell my big mouth, my swagger and imperialistc tendencies but in general what the populace thinks about actors is a false trap anyway. My ex was Greek and had lived in France - in her sphere it was always Streep on a different level - and she LIVED in France so that's a pretty big deal I always say that in America - the eventual GOAT will be seen - by the general populace (incorrectly) - as Tom Hanks - and as you can see in that "what went wrong with Tom Hanks after the 90s" thread - nobody even thinks he's even that good atm anyway....it's always a game of long career vs. in the moment - that the actors are playing and which the public can not fathom (example: How good is Adam Driver in 2022? How good will you think he is in 2042?). What eventually helps is if you own an acting record - Streep's 21 nods is so in the stratosphere she makes a default answer - acting is not a sport - it's either an Art or a Craft - but people tend to view it as a sport - ie the Tennis Grand Slams or Brady's Super Bowls. The only male that has that is DDL - I said this before in its own thread (link below)........that record of 3 BA's for a male is potentially lasting decades (thread below) - unless Hanks catches him this year maybe (?)........and when something lasts decades - it becomes mythic........now to me DDL is "a GOAT" not "THE GOAT" .........but the argument for him, like Streep is easy to make in that "sports analogy type way" movie-awards-redux.freeforums.net/thread/21700/ddls-best-actor-untouchable-current
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Post by bob-coppola on Apr 2, 2022 15:12:18 GMT
Here in Brazi, Meryl is definitely anointed as the GOAT by anyone who watches more than 5 films a year. As for male actors... If you ask someone who's 50 or older, they might say Pacino or Denzel, but it's not a common opinion. Older women have a huge crush on him over Scent of a Woman, and Denzel is just popular with that age group. There's also De Niro. There seems to be very little consesus amongst those older audiences tho, with names like Nicholson, Hopkins and Hanks also popping. If you go younger than 50, then it's no contest DiCaprio.
Surprisingly, I think people here don't really care about DDL at all. Among casual movie-goers, he's not really a name, and with cinephiles, it's more a matter of respect and admiration rather than loving him.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 2, 2022 15:33:45 GMT
DDL isn't actually that popular in the UK with general audiences, so he definitely wouldn't win any type of GOAT vote in his own country (he wouldn't win it in the US either. DDL is much more a critics/cinephile thing, than a general audience favorite). I'd say in the UK, probably Anthony Hopkins most tends to win that kind of vote when you include peers & and general audiences. Judi Dench probably would get the nod for women In the UK.
In America, right now it's clearly by a good distance Denzel Washington for males. He's got his industry peers, critics, media and general audiences calling him the GOAT on a regular basis (Denzel would also actually beat DDL in a GOAT vote in the UK among general audiences. Though I don't think Denzel would win in the UK. Probably top 5 to top 10). Especially in the last 2 to 3 years. DDL had his industry and media run in America for a few years after Lincoln where he got the most GOAT talk, but Denzel has clearly overtaken him there in the last few years. And he never had audiences like Denzel. Pacino and DeNiro have fallen quite a bit behind Denzel in that regard and don't get that type of talk quite as much anymore, but they had their runs when they were top of the tree, and Denzel may well have his run ended by someone.
As unanimously stated, it's Streep for women In America, for critics, industry and probably general audiences.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 2, 2022 15:52:41 GMT
Surprisingly, I think people here don't really care about DDL at all. Among casual movie-goers, he's not really a name, and with cinephiles, it's more a matter of respect and admiration rather than loving him. It's like that for DDL in a lot of places, even his own country. I think some people on cinephile boards like this are in a bit of a bubble and don't realise that DDL is not really a big deal with general audiences in most countries, for them to automatically think of him as GOAT. He's a big deal to his industry peers, Film Twitter/cinephiles and critics, but general audiences would pick a lot of actors over him if you asked them who they considered the male GOAT.
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Post by stephen on Apr 2, 2022 16:08:07 GMT
Depends on who you're asking. There's a difference between "most popular" and "most talented."
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 2, 2022 16:13:05 GMT
Depends on who you're asking. There's a difference between "most popular" and "most talented." I think if we are asking the question who is generally considered the greatest actor in this or that country, then the viewpoint of general audiences has to be factored in. It almost always matches up with whom critics or industry peers rate as such anyway in the talent stakes. Brando had audiences. Pacino & DeNiro had audiences. Denzel has audiences. Even Olivier in his day (who has since fallen a bit out of fashion), had audiences. DDL is something of an outlier at the highest echelon of GOAT debates in that he has everything else, but not really audiences. It's almost certainly down to how he structured his career, but that was the trade-off for him to get that industry/critical reverence. He alienated general audiences to a pretty large degree.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 2, 2022 16:26:57 GMT
Would you guys say that Meryl Streep is generally considered the greatest living actress in your country? The same going for Robert De Niro and Al Pacino for actors? Thank you for your feedback and insight! Reading back through this thread - I think some people are more answering like "who's the most popular actress or actor in your country who is also great" which isn't really the question. The answer for men I guess - is always that it always varies - the greatest living male actor (much less GOAT, impossible to answer) could still be Nicholson, DDL, Rylance, Auteuil, Servillo, Bardem, Hackman,, DiCap, Hackman, Hanks, Washington, Hopkins, DePac, Choi Min-sik, Phoenix..........and a lot more because for men it always varies by many things across the world .............. I've seen all of them ^ called that - by somebody - and all of them left out of the discussion entirely by somebody too. Consensus for men is impossible. But that's really how singular Streep is tbh.......you never see Streep not mentioned in any way ........and I've even seen Huppert left out of that discussion .............. there's no male equivalent to Streep......... for females ...... maybe Fernanda Montenegro .......but I dunno.........I'm not from Brazil. Still alive, bitches - 92.
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Post by bob-coppola on Apr 2, 2022 17:33:56 GMT
Would you guys say that Meryl Streep is generally considered the greatest living actress in your country? The same going for Robert De Niro and Al Pacino for actors? Thank you for your feedback and insight! Reading back through this thread - I think some people are more answering like "who's the most popular actress or actor in your country who is also great" which isn't really the question. The answer for men I guess - is always that it always varies - the greatest living male actor (much less GOAT, impossible to answer) could still be Nicholson, DDL, Rylance, Auteuil, Servillo, Bardem, Hackman,, DiCap, Hackman, Hanks, Washington, Hopkins, DePac, Choi Min-sik, Phoenix..........and a lot more because for men it always varies by many things across the world .............. I've seen all of them ^ called that - by somebody - and all of them left out of the discussion entirely by somebody too. Consensus for men is impossible. But that's really how singular Streep is tbh.......you never see Streep not mentioned in any way ........and I've even seen Huppert left out of that discussion .............. there's no male equivalent to Streep......... for females ...... maybe Fernanda Montenegro .......but I dunno.........I'm not from Brazil. Still alive, bitches - 92. You're right about Fernanda Montenegro. She and her daughter, Fernanda Torres, are brazilian culture royalty. Like, for me, it took me a long while to realize the rest of the world begrudged Paltrow in SIL because they thought Blanchett was robbed, because people here are really, really passionate about Montenegro in Central Station. I just assumed for a while this was a consensus between people who follow awards lmao And back to your previous question, I think when we ask questions like "who's considered the best in your country?", it's bound to blur lines with "who's better-known and also great?" because we're also trying to establish how different the landscape is in our specific countries as opposed to USA/UK. But of course it's more complex than that. For example, Pitt is more famous among people of all age than Pacino and Washington. However, lots of people here were surprised when Pitt won the Oscar because they view him as Jolie's ex-husband, the beautiful stud who from Ocean's 11. He's more famous, but not taken as seriously. Other example is Will Smith. He's more famous and has a bigger fanbase, but even among his fanbase, people will not hesitate to say he's not as great as Hanks, Washington, Nicholson and etc. On the other hand, the brazilian people who are passionate about Pacino, Washington, Nicholson, De Niro and DiCaprio are probably equally aware of DDL, but there's just not the same level of ardent passion. This becomes very visible to me because we're a country or fervent passion, so the "colder" and more distant admiration that's reserved to DDL is jarring.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Apr 2, 2022 17:51:24 GMT
Considering how much talk there is about who general audiences consider the GOAT, I gotta ask: do y'all ever even hear non-cinephiles talking about who's the GOAT anymore? The argument made sense when stars carried films, but with star power meaning less now than ever before and media culture being so fragmented, audiences probably don't give much of a damn about Denzel vs. DDL or Pacino vs. De Niro debates. Meryl Streep probably has the most solidified reputation of GOAT in the industry and with the public, but it's not like her skill holds audiences so captive they were rushing to stream Let Them All Talk.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 2, 2022 18:04:44 GMT
Considering how much talk there is about who general audiences consider the GOAT, I gotta ask: do y'all ever even hear non-cinephiles talking about who's the GOAT anymore? The argument made sense when stars carried films, but with star power meaning less now than ever before and media culture being so fragmented, audiences probably don't give much of a damn about Denzel vs. DDL or Pacino vs. De Niro debates. Meryl Streep probably has the most solidified reputation of GOAT in the industry and with the public, but it's not like her skill holds audiences so captive they were rushing to stream Let Them All Talk. All the time. There was a video on Undisputed a while back with Shannon Sharpe and Skip Bayless randomly discussing if Denzel or DDL should be considered GOAT (taking a break to stop talking about LeBron or The Cowboys ). These are not cinephiles nor is it a show for cinephiles. It's a show for sports fans. But ordinary people talk about who is the greatest in any popular discipline, and acting is not an exception. You get these conversations in barbershops, bars or online forums that have nothing to do with movies.Now granted, DDL came up in that conversation in Undisputed mainly because Skip Bayless is a big fan of his (I don't think he'd come up as much with fans in general), but ordinary people talk about whom the GOAT actor is all the time. I'd go further and say that GOAT debates and discussions among regular people in popular disciplines are more prevalent today than in any point in our lifetimes. It's just a way to shoot shit and pass the time. Ronaldo or Messi? Jordan or LeBron. Whitney or Mariah?....it goes on and on. People talk about this stuff on the regular with their buddies.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 2, 2022 18:46:00 GMT
Considering how much talk there is about who general audiences consider the GOAT, I gotta ask: do y'all ever even hear non-cinephiles talking about who's the GOAT anymore? Not much.......The thing that has kept this alive imo is "list culture" - we always had lists - but "list culture" is an internet era specific thing. I really do think it's what I said in another post - "it's like sports" for general audiences......as the world gets more uncertain, vagaries of any kind are to be avoided - maybe particularly in the assessments of Art..... ..........I think that's true for general audiences about movies overall. Not just the GOAT "debate" tbh........that debate once started with a premise that said "there is no GOAT but let's argue it anyway, it'll be fun!".........but in 2022 for general audiences imo - that feels much more like "there is no GOAT....... so why debate it at all anyway?"
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 2, 2022 19:02:20 GMT
Speaking of Fernanda Montenegro - being royalty in Brazil .........how about Carmen Maura in Spain? Like I always hear she's lauded to an insane degree though Montenegro was maybe different because she had populist TV works which so strongly identified her to audiences. Maura though did so much great and quirky work and lauded work too - I could see her being maybe (?) close to Streep - or their version of Streep? wilcinema who this thread is screaming for right now, tbh.......
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Apr 2, 2022 20:15:46 GMT
I obviously can't read because I made my post and this thread wasn't even for me. I've got to stop multi-tasking at work with a zillion tabs open.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Apr 2, 2022 20:37:42 GMT
Considering how much talk there is about who general audiences consider the GOAT, I gotta ask: do y'all ever even hear non-cinephiles talking about who's the GOAT anymore? The argument made sense when stars carried films, but with star power meaning less now than ever before and media culture being so fragmented, audiences probably don't give much of a damn about Denzel vs. DDL or Pacino vs. De Niro debates. Meryl Streep probably has the most solidified reputation of GOAT in the industry and with the public, but it's not like her skill holds audiences so captive they were rushing to stream Let Them All Talk. Here I am, an American making it about us again. I think it's generational. I'm sure the really young generation doesn't care about the people we consider GOATs. This might bother some people here, but I actually, see them gravitating towards Leonardo DiCaprio like he's Jack Nicholson these days. In casual movie talk with non-cinephiles for those born before Titanic came out, I still sometimes hear from average Americans: Pacino vs. De Niro or De Niro vs. Denzel debates. I don't hear the non-cinephile mention DDL as much in conversation. Not only is it generational but it also is about your background. For instance, if you poll only the Tri-state area, I would put money on De Niro winning the GOAT crown with the population.
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