|
|
Post by stephen on May 2, 2023 15:02:03 GMT
Jannings making the list at all is shocking. Not because he wasn't a great actor (he absolutely was), but the man's reputation and stature is inextricably linked with and tainted by his association with the Nazi party, and it is surprising he would rate so highly given that.
|
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 2, 2023 18:52:21 GMT
Yeah, whatever you say about this list they mostly stand behind their metrics only and avoid personal biases - in other lists Wayne, Chaplin, Jannings would be labelled "problematic" and not in the top 25 ...... and .......tbh I think Klaus Kinski is extremely likely to crack the top 25 or 30 too ....
|
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 4, 2023 13:05:29 GMT
How many times have I said this: the greatest male actors are in the greatest movies and in the greatest scenes in those movies...........very often for the greatest directors......filmography matters
Alain Delon in @ 25 probably for this reason exactly ^ .......American actors and British actors being pushed down this list for this reason too tbh thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon  |
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 7, 2023 13:26:31 GMT
26, 27, 28 Belmondo, Buster Keaton, PSH...... There are only 3 Americans on this list so far after the 1970s class - Pitt, DiCap, PSHA quote in PSH's write up: "That means that from 1997 to 2002 – a total of six (6) years – if a cinematic masterpiece was made, there was roughly a 20-25% chance Hoffman was in it"thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH  |
|
Nikan
Based
Posts: 3,180 
Likes: 1,576
|
Post by Nikan on May 7, 2023 22:54:17 GMT
26, 27, 28 Belmondo, Buster Keaton, PSH...... There are only 3 Americans on this list so far after the 1970s class - Pitt, DiCap, PSHA quote in PSH's write up: "That means that from 1997 to 2002 – a total of six (6) years – if a cinematic masterpiece was made, there was roughly a 20-25% chance Hoffman was in it"thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH The further we go, the more out-of-place dear Brad looks up there  |
|
jason
New Member
Posts: 10
Likes: 7
|
Post by jason on May 8, 2023 0:17:12 GMT
Brad deserves that place, someone underestimates him for his looks, it's a prejudice that is difficult to eliminate, but his career and his filmography prove his talent and his charisma
|
|
Nikan
Based
Posts: 3,180
Likes: 1,576
|
Post by Nikan on May 8, 2023 19:42:56 GMT
Brad deserves that place, someone underestimates him for his looks, it's a prejudice that is difficult to eliminate, but his career and his filmography prove his talent and his charisma To be clear, I don't dislike him at all (and think his filmography sort-of rocks)... but among top 20 ever he is not sir. |
|
|
|
Post by MsMovieStar on May 8, 2023 23:06:51 GMT
Oh honey, shouldn't Willem Dafoe be much higher up?
He was excellent as TS Elliot and also as Pasolini... two very different roles. I think he is massively underrated as an actor.
|
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 8, 2023 23:38:13 GMT
Oh honey, shouldn't Willem Dafoe be much higher up? He was excellent as TS Elliot and also as Pasolini... two very different roles. I think he is massively underrated as an actor. We'll see if he goes higher this time Legend - I love him too - in the 1st post that was a result from 2018 and this new 2023 poll updates that poll - ........there have been 0 American actors from the 80s class so far - Hanks, Cage, Cruise, Washington, Penn, Dafoe etc. so I think the poll doesn't regard that class high overall.........though I think you can argue Dafoe as the very best film actor of that group maybe - depending on what criteria you most value........his daring as an actor is pretty amazing certainly............. this list takes in several attributes: - range of roles, filmography, classics or masterpieces, autuers / directors worked with and things like that....... The current 2023 list below and Klaus Kinski came in @ #29 today thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski
I love this scene because well you don't see Kinski's face - because well............. he's the enemy   |
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 10, 2023 12:37:01 GMT
* @ 30 - Joe Pesci - Much too high imo - but has masterpieces and lesser classics too - in drama and comedy - and for a big (the biggest?) auteur - also this poll loves The Irishman which gets big mentions in all 3 stars write-ups .....but there's a lot more than just 25 or 30 actors between DePac and Joe......... This is similar to the Brad Pitt placement where he makes sense but his spot doesn't really - even given the criteria of this list...... * @ 31 - Burt Lancaster - who I can't dispute much - and is comparable I think to William Holden who ranked a bit higher Zero from the 80s US Class still - with 20 US actors already!:
If Cruise had (more?) masterpieces, if Washington had a single comedy success or a single acknowedged masterpiece / or just a better filmography, if Hanks had a single Once Upon A Time In The West level villain role they'd be here above Pesci I think......those 3 should show up soon (maybe?) thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster  |
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 13, 2023 13:17:35 GMT
As long as this list keeps being so pacinoyes-y (mostly) and we get 1 new post every 4 hours (um), sure I'll keep it updated......why not....... Montgomery Clift and Joaquin Phoenix @ 32, 33 Phoenix is the 5th American actor to make it post-70s big guns - along with Pitt, DiCap, PSH, Pesci - can't argue with these 2 much .......and you can't argue with me that this is the greatest Rock song ever about an actor...... Cut the applause, dim the light thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix |
|
|
|
Post by stephen on May 13, 2023 16:30:13 GMT
Clift and Phoenix being side-by-side is incredibly appropriate.
Of course, they should be in the top ten.
|
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 16, 2023 13:05:01 GMT
Clift and Phoenix (32 & 33) are not higher I think because they miss some big metrics - and this list is all about metrics in an "attempt" (ha!) to eliminate the typical preferential bias - and this list doesn't give af about awards either - lots of 2 time Oscar winners are MIA: * Clift doesn't dominate films usually (and no comedy) and of course left us too soon and Phoenix has few lead classics though he has some .......and is still young so he can always go up........... 3 new arrivals to the list: 34- Jean-Louis Trintignant35- Tom Cruise - The first US actor of the big US 80s class to make it - ahead of Hanks (too nice I guess), Cage (filmography), Washington (filmography, not particularly funny), Penn (filmography, disastrous post-2nd Oscar run) 36 - Kirk DouglasSome big US actors still missing: the remaining 80s guys ^ ...Jeff Bridges....Duvall....Lemmon....Scott.....Cagney.....Tracy  thecinemaarchives.com/
1 -De Niro
2 -Stewart
3 -Brando
4 -Mifune
5 -Pacino
6 -Nicholson
7 -DDL
B -Bogart
9 -Grant
10-Chaplin
11-Mastroianni
12-Leung
13-Wayne
14-Fonda
15-Pitt
16-DiCaprio
17-Newman
18-Hackman
19-Eastwood
20-Dustin Hoffman
21-Holden
22-Mitchum
23-Von Sydow
24-Jannings
25-Delon
26-Belmondo
27-Buster Keaton
28-PSH
29-Kinski
30-Pesci
31-Lancaster
32-Clift
33-Joaquin Phoenix
34-Trintignant
35-Cruise
36-Kirk Douglas
|
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 19, 2023 17:05:10 GMT
Bill Murray, Jean Gabin, Takashi Shimura are the latest to make the list @ 37/38/39.......Murray is almost on this list because of Wes Anderson if you read the write up - certainly he's higher than dramatic actors still MIA because of him thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 
|
|
|
|
Post by Mattsby on May 19, 2023 20:24:10 GMT
Shimura over Nakadai??  I'd rank Rentarō Mikuni and several other Japanese over Shimura.... . |
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 23, 2023 13:00:53 GMT
Um. ......... while Willem Dafoe, Denzel Washington, Tom Hanks, Robert Duvall, Jeff Bridges and more (!).........don't rival Brando, DePac, Nicholson (they just don't, thanx) they sure af are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy better American film actors with more substantial film careers than Ed Norton and Ethan Hawke ffs - who ridiculously come in @ 40 and 41 .........who's next - Paul Giamatti? This list has fallen apart after the "mostly" on target top 34 ........which weren't perfect but at least were defensible on their metrics......  thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton 41-Hawke  |
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 24, 2023 12:44:17 GMT
Clark Gable comes in at 42 today. You notice a pattern here where if they pick guys from a certain era (Norton, Hawke etc) they switch off - pretty quick -- with Gable being picked here I wonder if Cagney is due next (?) ........Also how "one" movie drama and comedy classic can get you a high placement ...........because it's hard to even get 1 but getting Gone With the Wind and It Happened One Night is really different - from Gable's write-up: It is shocking actually that the King of Hollywood had really only one more big performance in his career (The Misfits which he referred to as the second-best part he was ever offered after Gone with the Wind)
thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro 2 -Stewart 3 -Brando 4 -Mifune 5 -Pacino 6 -Nicholson 7 -DDL B -Bogart 9 -Grant 10-Chaplin 11-Mastroianni 12-Leung 13-Wayne 14-Fonda 15-Pitt 16-DiCaprio 17-Newman 18-Hackman 19-Eastwood 20-Dustin Hoffman 21-Holden 22-Mitchum 23-Von Sydow 24-Jannings 25-Delon 26-Belmondo 27-Buster Keaton 28-PSH 29-Kinski 30-Pesci 31-Lancaster 32-Clift 33-Joaquin Phoenix 34-Trintignant 35-Cruise 36-Kirk Douglas 37-Murray 38-Jean Gabin 39-Takashi Shimura 40-Norton 41-Hawke 42-Gable 
|
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on May 25, 2023 12:51:22 GMT
Like "comedian" / thespian expert W. Kamau Bell always says "Denzel Washington Is The 43rd Greatest Actor Of All Time - Period"What....is that not funny? A better filmography - and a good comic performance or two - and he'd be hanging closer to the Hackman and Newman tier in the top 20........ymmv...... From his entry:
"His weakness is undeniable – it is just the overall quality of films here. He suffers a similar fate to a Clark Gable or a Peter O’Toole (or Meryl Streep a little on the female side). Denzel is like a virtuoso musician who deserves to be part of a better rock band – or the sports athlete who lights up the statistics and highlights, but is never part of a team that competes for a title. Outside of his top two films with Spike Lee, Philadelphia (where Tom Hanks gives easily the best performance in the film) and The Tragedy of Macbeth – one can sum up the others by saying “Denzel is fantastic – but overall… the film is just good.”thecinemaarchives.com/1 -De Niro
2 -Stewart
3 -Brando
4 -Mifune
5 -Pacino
6 -Nicholson
7 -DDL
B -Bogart
9 -Grant
10-Chaplin
11-Mastroianni
12-Leung
13-Wayne
14-Fonda
15-Pitt
16-DiCaprio
17-Newman
18-Hackman
19-Eastwood
20-Dustin Hoffman
21-Holden
22-Mitchum
23-Von Sydow
24-Jannings
25-Delon
26-Belmondo
27-Buster Keaton
28-PSH
29-Kinski
30-Pesci
31-Lancaster
32-Clift
33-Joaquin Phoenix
34-Trintignant
35-Cruise
36-Kirk Douglas
37-Murray
38-Jean Gabin
39-Takashi Shimura
40-Norton
41-Hawke
42-Gable
43-Washington |
|
sirchuck23
Based
Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 4,842
|
Post by sirchuck23 on May 25, 2023 17:58:26 GMT
"He can occasionally slip inside a character (Cry Freedom and definitely sections of Malcolm X) – but by and large he is a commanding figure who plays a type (closer to a Tom Cruise or John Wayne) and his resume is not filled with examples of wide range." Then lists Malcolm X, Training Day, and TTOM in his top 5 performances. |
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 25, 2023 18:33:46 GMT
"He can occasionally slip inside a character (Cry Freedom and definitely sections of Malcolm X) – but by and large he is a commanding figure who plays a type (closer to a Tom Cruise or John Wayne) and his resume is not filled with examples of wide range." Then lists Malcolm X, Training Day, and TTOM in his top 5 performances.  To paraphrase Roger Mayweather, "y'all don't know shit about acting"Thank god this is just some random fan's website, so we don't have to pretend it means anything . Imagine writing this nonsense about Washington, yet classing John Wayne as the 13th greatest actor of all time . The man just gave a Oscar nominated Shakepearean performance as Macbeth. He gave an Oscar nominated performance before that as a supremely awkward man with Autism in Roman J Israel Esq. Washington could do every Shakespearean role Laurence Olivier did, yet I couldn't see Olivier in Training Day. Or He Got Game. Or The Book Of Eli. Or The Magnificent Seven. Think about it. He can pretty much do everything Olivier is supposed to be great at, but the reverse doesn't neccesarily hold true for Lord Larry, often claimed to have one of the biggest ranges of any actor (partially because of his supremacy in Shakespeare).. It's a laughable and kinda embarrassing assessment of Washington's skillset. He's just a film fan with his own preferences and biases. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean it needs to be taken seriously. |
|
sirchuck23
Based
Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
Posts: 2,733
Likes: 4,842
|
Post by sirchuck23 on May 25, 2023 18:49:43 GMT
"He can occasionally slip inside a character (Cry Freedom and definitely sections of Malcolm X) – but by and large he is a commanding figure who plays a type (closer to a Tom Cruise or John Wayne) and his resume is not filled with examples of wide range." Then lists Malcolm X, Training Day, and TTOM in his top 5 performances. To paraphrase Roger Mayweather, "y'all don't know shit about acting"Thank god this is just some random fan's website, so we don't have to pretend it means anything . Imagine writing this nonsense about Washington, yet classing John Wayne as the 13th greatest actor of all time . The man just gave a Oscar nominated Shakepearean performance as Macbeth. He gave an Oscar nominated performance before that as a supremely awkward man with Autism in Roman J Israel Esq. Washington could do every Shakespearean role Laurence Olivier did, yet I couldn't see Olivier in Training Day. Or He Got Game. Or The Book Of Eli. Or The Magnificent Seven. Think about it. He can pretty much do everything Olivier is supposed to be great at, but the reverse doesn't neccesarily hold true for Lord Larry, often claimed to have one of the biggest ranges of any actor (partially because of his supremacy in Shakespeare).. It's a laughable and kinda embarrassing assessment of Washington's skillset. He's just a film fan with his own preferences and biases. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean it needs to be taken seriously. Exactly, the performances he listed for Washington as his top 5 contradicts his own statement. |
|
|
|
Post by stephen on May 25, 2023 18:51:03 GMT
yet I couldn't see Olivier in Training Day.He would damn sure have tried. |
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 25, 2023 18:56:10 GMT
yet I couldn't see Olivier in Training Day.He would damn sure have tried. Oh god....having seen Olivier's Othello, I can see the trainwreck attempt already.... |
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on May 25, 2023 22:10:11 GMT
yet I couldn't see Olivier in Training Day.He would damn sure have tried. Mentally picturing Sleuth/Marathon Man era Olivier calmly saying "King Kong ain't got shit on me" and I kind of wish I could see this now. |
|
|
|
Post by stephen on May 25, 2023 22:12:39 GMT
He would damn sure have tried. Mentally picturing Sleuth/Marathon Man era Olivier calmly saying "King Kong ain't got shit on me" and I kind of wish I could see this now. Honestly, Olivier may not have played Alonzo Harris as Washington played him (nor should he), but I can absolutely see him bringing that level of mercurial unpredictability to a juicy villainous role like that just as effectively. |
|
