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Post by HELENA MARIA on Apr 27, 2022 3:31:43 GMT
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Apr 27, 2022 3:38:42 GMT
Please be Court of Owls please be Court of Owls please be Court of Owls please be Court of Owls please be Court of Owls.....
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Apr 27, 2022 16:46:59 GMT
They made such a fuss over this being a huge announcement as if anyone wasn’t expecting a sequel to a Batman movie that made $750M and is putting up huge streaming numbers.
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Post by stephen on Apr 27, 2022 16:49:58 GMT
I hope Keoghan's Joker remains as the Hannibal Lecter-esque advisor.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Apr 30, 2022 8:39:48 GMT
This quoted post is from the first Batman movie thread, and I wanted to reply to it, but I thought I'd stick it here instead since my (long!) reply is sequel-related. chris3Somehow I missed or forgot that someone else posted about wanting an adaptation of Court of Owls! It’s exciting to know that Reeves himself has expressed interest in possibly doing it. Considering what Reeves did with the first film, I think bringing in the Court of Owls might actually work best as a third film if he’s doing a trilogy. I suppose you could introduce them in the second film if you then choose to continue that story in the third film, but since Reeves has said he’s also interested in possibly incorporating villains like Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy, it would feel weird to me to go back to focusing on more direct, small-scale villains like that in the third film after dealing with the Court, a faceless threat that shakes Batman to his very core, undermining his self-importance and everything he thought he knew about Gotham. To me, it makes sense to save the Court of Owls for the end of the trilogy as something that rattles Batman’s world and sense of existence in a way that nothing before ever has… unless you do something like plant seeds of it in the second film without getting to the meat of the mystery yet. For anyone reading who hasn’t seen The Batman or isn’t familiar with the Court of Owls story arc in the comics, SPOILERS ahead for both... Since the first film’s plot deals with Batman investigating a conspiracy about who’s actually pulling the strings in the city, that could act as a set-up for something more terrifying later on. In the first film, we learn that everyone ultimately worked for Falcone... but maybe he was just a pawn for The Court of Owls, a figurehead to control Gotham's criminal underworld just doing the Court’s bidding. Perhaps his death causes a shift in the power structure, leading Batman to final discover the Court’s existence. While I wasn’t crazy about the first film’s suggestion that Falcone was possibly responsible for the death of Bruce’s parents, I appreciated that it was still left ambiguous, and I think that idea would tie in well with the way the Court of Owls story leaves the circumstances of their deaths still unresolved. If we see Bruce follow the trail of breadcrumbs from Falcone to the Court of Owls, that could reignite his childhood obsession of trying to find out if the Court of Owls were indeed responsible for murdering his parents. I love the idea of the film maybe ending like Zodiac or something—with no definite answer one way or the other about the truth regarding the Court’s connection to his parents, and Bruce having to accept that he will never know for sure after living a life of certainty that the Court didn’t exist. So not only would the Court of Owls story work well in continuing what the first film set up in terms of exposing powerful people controlling the city in secret, it would also serve as great fodder for Bruce Wayne’s personal development by expanding on what he learned in the first film about his parents’ connection to Falcone. Bruce’s renewed obsession with figuring out the truth about their deaths would also reinforce how the Court of Owls story thematizes the idea of knowledge—how what you thought you knew turned out to be an illusion, how you don’t know what’s close to you as well as you thought you did, the truth being much uglier than you imagined or thought possible... but the mystery of Bruce’s parents would drive home the point that there are some truths that will remain elusive and you have to find peace by living with some “incomplete” truths and decide what sort of knowledge really matters and makes a difference. This brings me to some of the weaker aspects of Scott Snyder's Court of Owls arc, which contains some elements that may be thematically appropriate for the overall story, but should be excised from a film adaptation because they’re just kind of stupid imo. I actually would want to keep most of the story’s first half—the part actually titled “Court of Owls”: Bruce’s investigation into his parents’ death as a child, discovering the “nests” around the city, the whole section in the labyrinth especially… all of that is great stuff. You could easily omit things like Dick Grayson’s involvement and the material that strays a little too much into sci-fi territory for my taste (the Talons having a healing factor and being reanimated people from a hundred years ago or whatever – just make them regular assassins). It's the second half of the story—“City of Owls”—where things kind of fall apart and the writing takes a steep dive imo. I like the idea of a ton of Talon assassins attacking the Wayne mansion, but instead of fighting them with a dumb giant robot Batsuit and lowering the temperature in the Batcave to subzero to freeze them (lol), do something cool like have Bruce put on the Talon suit of the guy he and Alfred captured from the labyrinth and go around the mansion like a ninja taking everyone out one by one while posing as a Talon in disguise. And while wearing the Talon suit, maybe THAT’S how he discovers the microdrive in the Talon’s gauntlet that reveals the list of public figures that the Court plans to assassinate. In general, the action in the story’s second half too over the top and way more cartoony than it was in the first half, so I expect Reeves would want to keep things more grounded. The worst thing is the ending though - I just find the whole "mysterious character who is initially good but is revealed to be the villain and who may or may not be secretly Bruce's brother" to be incredibly stupid. I get that the idea of Bruce not really knowing his family’s history ties in thematically with him not really knowing his own city either, but the whole “surprises hidden in the hero’s past” thing is too cliché, and I just hope Reeves comes up with a much stronger ending to the Court of Owls story than what Snyder came up with. Even the introduction of Lincoln March made it incredibly obvious that he would be the antagonist, so if they end up using a twist involving a “good” guy revealed to be a member of the Court, then I suppose a way to make it less obvious and predictable would be to introduce multiple characters where any one of them (or all of them) could be a member of the Court (Agatha Christie-style!). I’d be okay with the film ending in an open-ended manner like the comic though where only a small subset of the Court has been eliminated, but they’re part of something bigger and still unknown. It would give the trilogy a satisfyingly haunting conclusion, I think. Plus, I still like the idea of someone within the Court betraying and murdering their own... I also just want to see the scene of Batman returning to an Eyes Wide Shut-esque Harbor House, the place he investigated as a kid, and finding an entire table of dead members of the Court in their masks... what an awesomely creepy image that would be in the film.
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Post by countjohn on Apr 30, 2022 19:15:04 GMT
I hope Keoghan's Joker remains as the Hannibal Lecter-esque advisor. To be honest I hope they just change course and leave that scene as a red herring. We've had enough of the Joker lately. I want to see a new villain. I want to see Kravitz back, though.
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Post by getclutch on May 1, 2022 23:00:52 GMT
I hope Keoghan's Joker remains as the Hannibal Lecter-esque advisor. To be honest I hope they just change course and leave that scene as a red herring. We've had enough of the Joker lately. I want to see a new villain. I want to see Kravitz back, though. Amen. There are so many more viliain's to explore.
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chris3
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Post by chris3 on May 2, 2022 0:55:24 GMT
In the first film, Batman learns that he can't solve the city's problems by punching it in the face. It's a fantastic arc and hopefully the sequel expands upon it, with the socioeconomic fate of Gotham as the macro foil to Bruce's inner moral arc. Basically, I don't want Batman punching poor people with mental health issues in the sequel or it'd be a major regression. We've seen Batman operating within the gritty Fincher-esque slums of the city in the first film, and his vigilante actions have only made the poorest, most vulnerable people of Gotham terrified of him. In Part II, he should be taking on his overprivileged peers (creating and utilizing his Bruce Wayne persona in the process) and discovering that the root causes of Gotham's issues aren't street level but within the 1%, and thus... we need the Court of Owls as the main antagonist for Part II. Personally I'd get rid of the zombie resurrection Talons aspect of the mythos and just make this whole damn movie Eyes Wide Shut meets The Game just like the whole last movie was Se7en/Blade Runner/Chinatown. I know everyone's going nuts for Mr. Freeze online, but honestly I feel like that'd be villain of the week material. He could be in the series, sure, but as a proper main bad? I think that's absurd. The Nora story is touching but simply not crucial enough (either as a foil or conflict) to defining a major piece of the story of Bruce Wayne. If we need a Rogue's villain to go alongside the Court my vote is Mad Hatter. He could be an eccentric billionaire who has young blonde women named Alice kidnapped across Gotham, under the Court's protection. That could be the initial MacGuffin that puts Batman in the Owls' path. And I'd get Iko Uwais as the Talon, who'd be the greatest henchman in the history of Batman on film. The fights would be legendary.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on May 2, 2022 2:42:36 GMT
In Part II, he should be taking on his overprivileged peers (creating and utilizing his Bruce Wayne persona in the process) and discovering that the root causes of Gotham's issues aren't street level but within the 1%, and thus... we need the Court of Owls as the main antagonist for Part II. If you introduce the Court of Owls in Part II, would you want to see that story continued in Part III (maybe end Part II with a cliffhanger), or move onto something like a loose adaptation of the New 52 Endgame storyline (which I think was originally your suggestion for the third film)?
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chris3
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Post by chris3 on May 2, 2022 4:01:03 GMT
The_Cake_of_Roth : So ideally I'd want a five film series, with Part III focusing on Robin (I'd go Carrie Kelly Robin; a late teen homeless street punk vigilante a la Hit Girl secretly dating the new commissioner's daughter, the wheelchair bound high school genius Barbara Gordon, who masquerades online as the hacker Oracle and serves as the brains to Carrie's brawn). Batman drafting a teen girl into his war on crime would turn all of his allies into foes. They'd all think he's gone totally nuts, and the fun part is so would the audience, and Reeves can mine gold with the child endangerment element of the Dynamic Duo instead of hiding it in the shadows. By the end of the film we'd even have our version of the Bat Family with Bruce, Robin (now living in Wayne Manor), and Oracle. The primary antagonist would be Two-Face, having spent a whole previous film as new hotshot DA Harvey Dent, so the arc's tragedy at the heart of the film would be really captivating. And maybe Mr. Freeze here as the secondary foe, or Preston Payne aka Clayface III, who IMO is a much better character than the normal iteration. The fourth film would finally make Joker the villain (and be pure nightmare fuel like his portrayal in the New 52), having escaped from Arkham and going after all of Batman's allies, wanting him only for himself. He'd kill Alfred, and the viewer would be set-up to believe the film is about to go all Death in the Family and kill Robin, but it ends up being a fake-out. However, at the end of the film Robin quits the team, and Oracle leaks Batman's identity online. For the first time since the first film, Batman is truly alone. The final film would focus on Bruce's identity getting out to the public and be an even more epic version of the B:TAS episode "Over the Edge", with literally all of the previous villains (including the Court) and some new ones coming to play for the final showdown. Maybe here Joker gasses the city and we get a proper insane finale where the Bat Family and Rogues team up in the climax, and the bad blood between our allies gets settled in moving fashion. At the end, Gordon handcuffs Bruce ("I knew it was you the whole time...") and takes his best friend into the backseat of a police car, Bruce's legal fate forever left unknown to the viewer. That's how I'd do it.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on May 2, 2022 7:08:23 GMT
The final film would focus on Bruce's identity getting out to the public and be an even more epic version of the B:TAS episode "Over the Edge", with literally all of the previous villains (including the Court) and some new ones coming to play for the final showdown. So if your plan would be to bring the Court back at the end of the series, I'm curious where you would want to leave things in terms of the Court's existence in Gotham. Would Batman succeed in completely cleansing Gotham of their influence and power, or would you rather it end more open-endedly with maybe some members of the Court eliminated, but they're only a small part of something bigger (basically how Snyder ended the story, but without the Lincoln March stuff)?
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chris3
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Post by chris3 on May 2, 2022 20:11:39 GMT
So if your plan would be to bring the Court back at the end of the series, I'm curious where you would want to leave things in terms of the Court's existence in Gotham. Would Batman succeed in completely cleansing Gotham of their influence and power, or would you rather it end more open-endedly with maybe some members of the Court eliminated, but they're only a small part of something bigger (basically how Snyder ended the story, but without the Lincoln March stuff)? Oh no I'm with you; I'd never want the Court to be defeated. I also agree 100% that Lincoln March should be omitted. Weak twist, and the orphanage subplot was already cannibalized for the first film (I was POSITIVE we'd find out Riddler was Bruce's long lost brother). At the end of Part II I'd want Batman to win a small battle against the Court (maybe defeating the Talon and/or stopping whatever their current specific aim is against the city), but ultimately the arc he learns is that he, Batman, is only one man, and he does not know his city nearly as well as he should. Just like he can't punch Gotham into submission in the first film, he must learn now that he can't just throw money at the problem as Bruce Wayne the philanthropist, either. The second film defines the true complexities that come with Bruce achieving his Gotham Project. And thus... he's gonna need allies, leading us perfectly into the third film where Batman overcompensates and drafts a precocious young imitator under his wing, and we are SHOCKED at his actions in the first half. Ideally I want this one to be the radical, controversial film in the series and take a lot of satirical inspiration from the infamous (frankly horrendous, but hysterically inspired in concept) Frank Miller All-Star Batman and Robin. And then, insanely, the movie would end up SIDING with this psychotic premise and really earn/justify Robin's inclusion after spending a whole film indulging in the perversity of the irresponsible premise. It'd be the punk rock Batman film. And while the Court would be mentioned in Part III and IV, the primary antagonists of the film would be involved in far more personal, non-city wide pursuits. Two-Face would be going after Batman, Joker would be going after the Bat Family. So finally by film 5 we can return to the more macro, socioeconomic themes and bring back the Court, who Batman might even need to call upon for help now that the whole city's against him. It'd be a deal with the devil dripping with wry political subtext. What do you think?
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on May 2, 2022 22:02:35 GMT
chris3 I totally agree with your take on how to handle Bruce’s personal arc in the second film – I think it would definitely be a smart way to develop the character in a way we haven’t really seen before in a Batman film. While I’ve never been that into the Bat Family and have always been more of a solo-Batman fan, the idea of him realizing he needs allies of course makes sense and I could see it working depending on how it’s handled. When it comes to villains besides the Court though, I agree with what others in this thread have said about wanting to see new antagonists that haven’t been used in a live-action Batman film yet... unless Reeves continues rehabilitating villains from the Joel Schumacher films like Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy. I love your idea of the whole city turning against Batman and him somehow having to call upon the Court for help in a “deal with the devil.” It’d be a great way of testing Batman further by pushing him towards moral compromise for the "greater good" (sort of like what happens The Dark Knight).
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Post by Billy_Costigan on May 3, 2022 14:29:54 GMT
Kristen Stewart for Poison Ivy please.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on May 3, 2022 14:46:55 GMT
I want the sequel to be Alfred whooping Bruce's ass for 90 minutes since Bruce acted like a little shit towards him for the whole first movie.
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Post by stephen on May 3, 2022 14:54:31 GMT
I want the sequel to be Alfred whooping Bruce's ass for 90 minutes since Bruce acted like a little shit towards him for the whole first movie. Jeremy Irons would've kicked Bruce's ass from the hospital bed.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Mar 8, 2023 6:32:41 GMT
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Mar 14, 2023 0:22:15 GMT
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Mar 29, 2023 19:44:59 GMT
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Post by Billy_Costigan on Mar 29, 2023 22:27:34 GMT
I saw people running with this but it sounds premature. It's part of this article about a possible stand alone Clayface film. It doesn't seem like anyone knows yet.
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Post by mhynson27 on Mar 29, 2023 23:04:11 GMT
Come on WB, let Flanagan cook.
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Post by Pavan on Mar 12, 2024 18:40:06 GMT
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Pasquale
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Post by Pasquale on Mar 12, 2024 23:10:32 GMT
Chances this gets cancelled all together?
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 12, 2024 23:25:53 GMT
Chances this gets cancelled all together? James Gunn might not want a very popular iteration of the character to be around while he's trying to establish a new DCU with his own version of Batman. So I can see a cancellation being possible. But there's going to be a massive fan revolt if that does happen. The Reeves/Pattinson Batman has a lot of supporters ( some who rate it as high as the Chris Nolan take on the character).
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Mar 12, 2024 23:38:25 GMT
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