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Post by stephen on Oct 13, 2022 17:42:50 GMT
still will be issues with this and how do we even know the first winners are the legit ones? They could redo it just to be woke. this is a horrible idea. I give it five years before they change it back. The whole thing feels like a bad compromise. If they are really concerned about going "genderless", just hand out two acting awards for Lead Actor and Supporting Actor. Or maybe separate them by movie genre Or do Best Performance by an LGBTQI Actor. I mean, that is what they're doing, just using a different label for it, as "actor" has a masculine overtone to it.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Oct 13, 2022 17:58:48 GMT
The whole thing feels like a bad compromise. If they are really concerned about going "genderless", just hand out two acting awards for Lead Actor and Supporting Actor. Or maybe separate them by movie genre Or do Best Performance by an LGBTQI Actor. I mean, that is what they're doing, just using a different label for it, as "actor" has a masculine overtone to it. I assume he means two total, one for lead and one for supporting.
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Allenism
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Post by Allenism on Oct 13, 2022 18:21:22 GMT
Yes. Just have a fixed number of 10 acting nominees for lead, and another 10 for supporting.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Oct 13, 2022 19:09:42 GMT
so two lead winners and two supporting winners. So basically two ties. Yeah no thanks. 
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Post by Brother Fease on Oct 13, 2022 19:38:58 GMT
The whole thing feels like a bad compromise. If they are really concerned about going "genderless", just hand out two acting awards for Lead Actor and Supporting Actor. Or maybe separate them by movie genre Or do Best Performance by an LGBTQI Actor. I mean, that is what they're doing, just using a different label for it, as "actor" has a masculine overtone to it. No, they are handing out four acting awards. If they really want to be gender free, then just hand out for Best Lead and Best Supporting Actor.
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Post by finniussnrub on Oct 13, 2022 19:41:33 GMT
And if four men were to win, think of the uproar.
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Post by quetee on Oct 13, 2022 19:43:04 GMT
And if four men were to win, think of the uproar. That's why this whole thing is stupid. Why even go there.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Oct 13, 2022 19:45:00 GMT
And if four men were to win, think of the uproar. you know they're not gonna let that happen.
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Post by finniussnrub on Oct 13, 2022 19:49:01 GMT
And if four men were to win, think of the uproar. you know they're not gonna let that happen. Oh I know, like the very convenient ties at the Gothams last year. But if it was a true anonymous ballot, like the Oscars, that 100% could happen.
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Post by Tyler on Oct 13, 2022 19:49:33 GMT
This feels so unnecessary to me. Trans actors should be placed in the category of the gender with which they identify... If there's any confusion (ie. someone who identifies with they/them pronouns), couldn't you just ask the person where they'd like to campaign?
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filmnoir
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Post by filmnoir on Oct 13, 2022 19:51:58 GMT
Keep it the same. It is already so difficult to win an acting Oscar as is. Then there's the ongoing disparity between the roles with Best Actor and Best Actress.
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Post by quetee on Oct 13, 2022 20:26:36 GMT
And if four men were to win, think of the uproar. you know they're not gonna let that happen. That's why I said will these be the real winners.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Oct 13, 2022 21:12:31 GMT
again. directors noms have been 95% male for forever. cinematographers probably even higher. there are industry-wide issues of sexism and giving meryl streep a gold statue every 4 years is not going to change that. if the issue is that the oscars aren't sufficient recognizing marginalized voices (which, i mean, obviously they aren't, you have to basically be a millionaire to be nominated for any of the big categories), then that should be held against them if they do end up nominating all men for the acting categories. as it stands it isolates nb performances even more than they would be normally, and makes the industry look "fair" because it's split into two gendered categories.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Oct 13, 2022 21:14:52 GMT
This feels so unnecessary to me. Trans actors should be placed in the category of the gender with which they identify... If there's any confusion (ie. someone who identifies with they/them pronouns), couldn't you just ask the person where they'd like to campaign? this may shock people who have never talked to an nb person but a lot of people of those identities don't identify as male or female - that's kind of the point of having their identity be called nonbinary.
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Post by Tyler on Oct 13, 2022 21:16:57 GMT
This feels so unnecessary to me. Trans actors should be placed in the category of the gender with which they identify... If there's any confusion (ie. someone who identifies with they/them pronouns), couldn't you just ask the person where they'd like to campaign? this may shock people who have never talked to an nb person but a lot of people of those identities don't identify as male or female - that's kind of the point of having their identity be called nonbinary. I'm thinking specifically of people like Sam Smith and Demi Lovato who have recently come out as non-binary - I really don't think they'd take issue with competing in male and female categories, respectively.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Oct 13, 2022 21:17:47 GMT
Why the gender can't be the character's?
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Oct 13, 2022 21:20:11 GMT
this may shock people who have never talked to an nb person but a lot of people of those identities don't identify as male or female - that's kind of the point of having their identity be called nonbinary. I'm thinking specifically of people like Sam Smith and Demi Lovato who have recently come out as non-binary - I really don't think they'd take issue with competing in male and female categories, respectively. they probably wouldn't mind competing in gendered categories insofar as it allows them to get money and awards, but the point of their actual identity (sam smith at least - i thought demi lovato no longer identified that way) is that they don't feel as though they belong on a binary system of male and female (or, you know, actor and actress).
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Post by Tyler on Oct 13, 2022 21:23:47 GMT
I'm thinking specifically of people like Sam Smith and Demi Lovato who have recently come out as non-binary - I really don't think they'd take issue with competing in male and female categories, respectively. they probably wouldn't mind competing in gendered categories insofar as it allows them to get money and awards, but the point of their actual identity (sam smith at least - i thought demi lovato no longer identified that way) is that they don't feel as though they belong on a binary system of male and female (or, you know, actor and actress). No, I understand the concept. I'm just trying to think of a way that they could fit into the system that there is now. Non-binary people seem like the only legitimate reason to go genderless with awards categories.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Oct 13, 2022 21:35:51 GMT
Many NB actors go by multiple pronouns (Alex Newell is genderfluid but also identifies as a gay man, Emma Corrin goes by she/her in addition to they/them as does Indya Moore), Dillon being a rare example of someone who sees themselves as completely outside of the gender binary.
Awards categories are just that -- categories. By design they're compartmented. If you squash the gendered distinction you either only have one winner per category in which case prestige/visibility/success/accolades are denied to someone else, or you do what the LAFCA is doing and essentially have two ties for lead and supporting, which cheapens both wins and defeats the entire purpose of having a winner because absent an organic tie, there can only be one "best" (inherent in the definition). The practical implications of genderless categories as they've been used so far has been lose-lose.
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Post by Brother Fease on Oct 13, 2022 21:43:33 GMT
This feels so unnecessary to me. Trans actors should be placed in the category of the gender with which they identify... If there's any confusion (ie. someone who identifies with they/them pronouns), couldn't you just ask the person where they'd like to campaign? I think the solution to this so-called problem is status quo. If the person identifies as male or non-binary/two-spirit, they can participate in the two actor categories. If they identify as a female, they can participate in the actress categories. If you're a non-binary male, then you compete in the actor categories. If you're a non-binary female, then you can participate in the actress categories.
Having four winners for two categories feels awfully silly. I am all for supporting the LGBTQI people and their right to live in a free country, but this is just bizarre.
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Post by Brother Fease on Oct 13, 2022 21:49:32 GMT
Many NB actors go by multiple pronouns (Alex Newell is genderfluid but also identifies as a gay man, Emma Corrin goes by she/her in addition to they/them as does Indya Moore), Dillon being a rare example of someone who sees themselves as completely outside of the gender binary. Awards categories are just that -- categories. By design they're compartmented. If you squash the gendered distinction you either only have one winner per category in which case prestige/visibility/success/accolades are denied to someone else, or you do what the LAFCA is doing and essentially have two ties for lead and supporting, which cheapens both wins and defeats the entire purpose of having a winner because absent an organic tie, there can only be one "best" (inherent in the definition). The practical implications of genderless categories as they've been used so far has been lose-lose. It is really silly. Four winners in two categories. 99% of the population identifies with male or female. And as you point out, Alex and Emma are genderfluid and feel comfortable with multiple pronouns. Honestly, is any transgender person offended by having actor and actress categories?
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Oct 13, 2022 21:54:46 GMT
If you squash the gendered distinction you either only have one winner per category in which case prestige/visibility/success/accolades are denied to someone else, or you do what the LAFCA is doing and essentially have two ties for lead and supporting, which cheapens both wins and defeats the entire purpose of having a winner because absent an organic tie, there can only be one "best" (inherent in the definition). The practical implications of genderless categories as they've been used so far has been lose-lose. this is just like, patently bullshit though lol. what if the LAFCA gives their awards to one man and one woman for each category? how is that any more artificial than will smith and jessica chastain both winning best performance (which is considered a tie as far as oscars go)? and if the number by gender changes, then what's the issue there?
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Oct 14, 2022 0:04:02 GMT
If you squash the gendered distinction you either only have one winner per category in which case prestige/visibility/success/accolades are denied to someone else, or you do what the LAFCA is doing and essentially have two ties for lead and supporting, which cheapens both wins and defeats the entire purpose of having a winner because absent an organic tie, there can only be one "best" (inherent in the definition). The practical implications of genderless categories as they've been used so far has been lose-lose. this is just like, patently bullshit though lol. what if the LAFCA gives their awards to one man and one woman for each category? how is that any more artificial than will smith and jessica chastain both winning best performance (which is considered a tie as far as oscars go)? and if the number by gender changes, then what's the issue there? because Will Smith wasn't competing against Jessica Chastain... They were the best in their respective categories. That's the whole point. There can't be two best actors or two best actresses unless there's an honest to god tie in the voting like in '68. I don't really care what the LAFCA do for the record. They can have as many or as few acting categories as they want, so long as the Oscars keep 4 categories of 5 nominees each.
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Post by dadsburgers on Oct 14, 2022 0:16:45 GMT
What would people think of it being split between Dramatic Lead/Supporting and Comedic Lead/Supporting instead of by gender?
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Post by MsMovieStar on Oct 14, 2022 7:35:23 GMT
Oh honey, I think the real problem is using the word 'Best'... It's not really inclusive, is it?
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