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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 30, 2021 14:27:37 GMT
Who are the actors who are the most imitated or the actor the young actors strive to be like do you think - and what are their characteristics that serve as the influence? Not "favorites"or "best" but genuinely influential ......Who is someone who might be on such a path......... Riz Ahmed perhaps? Some of these overlap so I mentioned some of their predecessors/successors too who could be on this list........ Not a top 10 .........just 10 ....... ........... I could have included Chaplin, Sellers etc ........
In no order: Marlon Brando - In America, there is simply "Before Brando" and "After Brando" - he influenced several generations and still does. Clift and Dean of course are his contemporaries that occupy the same general space........ Robert De Niro - Who I think rivals Brando in a way primarily as "#1" here - the way he used his body in the '76-'91 period particularly - when your name becomes the descriptive adjective (like the word "Ether" did in music for example) - it's pretty hard to match - ie "pulling a De Niro". Bale is this right now..... Meryl Streep - In many ways is the female Brando in a way that even Page and Rowlands are not - though those 2 are hugely influential as well. Leonardo DiCaprio - For an impeccable Hollywood movie career - awards, Box Office, stardom - the Paul Newman & Jack Nicholson of his day..... Denzel Washington - I often say he has weaknesses that hurt him when you assess his acting .........but NOT his influence: Absolutely crucial for his race alone and in several other ways far beyond that - there's a lot of kids who probably never thought of being an actor until they first saw him - and also sort for his longevity as a star and unique career path. Daniel Day-Lewis - Sort of the "new Brando" and his influence is specifically geared to his selectivity too - he doesn't make crap (to the average viewer) and hits a home run every time (to the average viewer) and he's the most Method-y actor who ever Method-ed. Phoenix perhaps too here......if you equate acting to sporting statistics he's a perfect fit. Tom Hanks - I always say when it's said and done he'll be the average person's GOAT - and part of that is because he appeals to that "oh he's so natural, he's good in everything!" POV ....... Jack Lemmon occupied this space across comedy/drama like Hanks does Barbra Streisand - As the definitive "pop star" / "serious movie star" although you could say Cher, Diana Ross, and potentially one day........um...... Lady Gaga I imagine a lot of singers / actresses aspire to that stardom. Her imperfect beauty made her eminently relatable too..... Al Pacino - I think far less influentially important than De Niro is actually ............ but still............ For a long time the one modern "movie star" of his stature with a Tony award & an Oscar so for the guys who love the theater he's an obvious model....and then later with TV.....preceded by George C. Scott who is clearly his model ..... Viola Davis - Acclaim wise she sort of occupies the Denzel role for females - the most Oscar nods for any black female (she'll get more too), the Triple Crown - when no other African American has it period - not traditionally beautiful as a star ......
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 16:46:41 GMT
You're really not including Bette Davis and Katharine Hepburn in a Top 10?
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Post by stephen on Apr 30, 2021 16:50:34 GMT
John Wilkes Booth.
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Post by countjohn on Apr 30, 2021 17:16:27 GMT
Brando pretty much invented modern film acting and I'm not sure how different anything DePac or Streep were doing truly was from him. I would ultimately say they were both more technically accomplished and had better careers, but that doesn't mean they were doing anything fundamentally different. Even DDL is just taking method acting to its furthest extreme. To the point where I'm not sure how many people are truly influenced by DDL outside of the occasional poseur try hard like Jared Leto. There is the selectivity point with him as well, but going forward I'm not sure how realistic it is for young actors to do that given how fast the narrative changes with social media and the constant new "content" on streaming, as well as the general decline of quality material (if you're going to wait for the 100% perfect role you might be waiting a long time). There's no way anyone today would wait three years to put out another movie after having his big breakout and winning an Oscar like DDL did with between My Left Foot and Last of the Mohicans. Leo can do it, but he's already "made it" so it's not the same thing.
Outside of Brando I think you've got to look at classic Hollywood actors who define major archetypes. John Wayne, Cary Grant, Bogart, Cagney, Katharine Hepburn with her screwball comedy performances, Jimmy Stewart. Tom Hanks is pretty much just doing what Stewart did, albeit as a more technically proficient dramatic actor. Maybe throw Paul Newman in there too as kind of a bridge between classic and modern acting and his rebelious 60's roles like The Hustler and Butch Cassidy were kind of a different archetype from what had been seen before. You could make a case for Charlie Chaplin too with his influence on slapstick humor to this day.
The post-Brando actors I think you could make arguments for are probably comedic. Peter Sellers, Eddie Murphy, Robin Williams. That kind of manic humor that is really intended for the movies.
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SZilla
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Post by SZilla on Apr 30, 2021 17:29:58 GMT
I hate to rank actors influence, per say, but I'll list a few that I think deserve a mention:
Lon Chaney - Probably the first real "chameleon" actor, where his transformations led to his "Man of a Thousand Faces" moniker. His early death and loss of a lot of his films may have limited his reach in influence, but I do think he set the stage for the potential of what actors can "become" and really sparked the idea of "actors that are so good you didn't even know it was them until the credits rolled."
Fredric March/Spencer Tracy/Paul Muni - These three were always referred to as the "actor's actor" of their generation. Highly respected for their versatility on stage and film, these were actors with "gravitas" that helped shape the perception that actors were artists and not simply entertainers.
Humphrey Bogart - Maybe not the most versatile actor (although he's underrated in that department), but Bogart's mystifyingly "cool" persona not only inspired the countless film noirs & b-movie anti-hero detectives that directly followed The Maltese Falcon, but most other "cool guy" types that followed, such as Han Solo and Michel from Breathless.
John Garfield - Brando/Dean/Clift may eclipse Garfield here, but as the actor known for bringing Method acting to film, it's hard to leave him off the list.
and for someone a bit more recent:
Gary Oldman - In a similar sense to Lon Chaney, here's another chameleon who is constantly praised for his versatility and disappearance into the role. He is constantly cited as an inspiration or favorite actor to a bevy of today's top notch actors. Christian Bale cited Oldman as "the reason I'm acting" and Tom Hardy has described Oldman as his acting hero and mentioned how in college, all of his classmates would compete over who was more of an Oldman fan. Jessica Chastain, Ryan Gosling, Brad Pitt, Michael Fassbender, Jason Isaacs, Daniel Radcliffe, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Johnny Depp, Jennifer Lawrence, Benedict Cumberbatch, Ben Foster, Sam Rockwell, among others have all cited Oldman as an influence. That's a wildly huge list of some of the top actors working today.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 30, 2021 17:36:08 GMT
You're really not including Bette Davis and Katharine Hepburn in a Top 10? In the OP : Not a top 10 .........just 10 ....... ........... I could have included Chaplin, Sellers etc ........
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Apr 30, 2021 17:44:35 GMT
Man has a point..
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Post by stephen on Apr 30, 2021 17:49:46 GMT
Also, I know that Viola Davis is one of those people who looks a lot different than she usually comes off in film when she's off-screen (primarily because she actually smiles in real life, which she almost never does in film), and that picture next to Pacino is really blurry . . . but I don't think that's her.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 30, 2021 18:20:17 GMT
Considering how many actresses have been giving career defining performances over the last 25 years (The latest being Carey Mulligan in Promising Young Woman) specifically because of her archetype defining work in To Die For...
....Nicole Kidman is clearly one of the most influential actresses of all time.
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Post by franklin on Apr 30, 2021 19:20:44 GMT
Agree about the DiCaprio inclusion in that list especially for this more recent modern era. Perfect blend of old school movie star and ultimate intense character actor.
You can tell that with the whole "teen sensation/hunk who also can be an incredible actor" thing, he totally paved the way for the Robert Pattinsons and Timothee Chalamets of the world.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Apr 30, 2021 20:22:47 GMT
What sets DiCaprio apart from most actors in this respect is that he's had a profound influence on not just actors from subsequent generations but also on actors from his own generation, because he broke out so early and set the bar so high. What Joaquin Phoenix said on the SAG podium about DiCaprio being an inspiration for over 25 years is common knowledge, but other actors have said similar things about him in the past. Cillian Murphy and Tom Hardy have talked about growing up watching DiCaprio films and how he was the hero for their generation of actors.
Even someone like Brad Pitt, who is 11 years older and belongs to the previous generation of actors, has talked about being inspired by DiCaprio's career and his role choices (despite being a top dog himself). That just doesn't happen very often and speaks to how widely influential DiCaprio has been as an actor.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Apr 30, 2021 20:39:12 GMT
Charlton Heston was doing a DiCaprio way before DiCaprio. He has to be here, in place of DiCaprio.
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Post by Good God on Apr 30, 2021 21:12:36 GMT
Charlton Heston was doing a DiCaprio way before DiCaprio. He has to be here, in place of DiCaprio. LOL 1. Charlton Heston was never considered the best actor of his generation by anyone. DiCaprio is. 2. Charlton Heston was never the biggest star of his generation. DiCaprio is. 3. Charlton Heston did not have 6 Oscar nominations at the age of 45. DiCaprio does. 4. Charlton Heston had 0 appearances on the Quigley Top Ten Money Making Stars Poll. DiCaprio had 9 before the age of 40. 5. Charlton Heston was never in the biggest movie of all time. DiCaprio was. Nobody was doing a DiCaprio before DiCaprio. Because DiCaprio is the first actor to ever do a DiCaprio. He is the only actor in history to have been both the biggest and the most acclaimed actor of his generation. Just because they were both in movies that won 11 Oscars doesn't mean their careers were anything similar. They weren't.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 30, 2021 21:18:32 GMT
I think you can make a strong case for Denzel Washington being the single most influential male actor since Robert DeNiro (whose approach to the work in terms of physical immersion had a profound effect on actors after him) and before him, Marlon Brando. There is hardly a black actor working who doesn't steal, borrow or crib from Washington. Daniel Kaayula, Michael B Jordan and Chadwick Boseman were all his children figuratively, while John David Washington is his child literally. But Denzel in some form or other appears to influence or inspire numerous non-black actors. From Tom Hanks stating that he "steals" from Denzel in his own work, to Eric Bana saying Denzel is favorite actor and calling Man On Fire his most greatest acting lesson to Edward Norton writing him fan letters and saying he should win an Oscar every year, to Matt Damon and Ben Affleck saying they honed their skills as young actors by memorising Denzel monologues from things like Glory and Malcolm X,to Benicio Del Toro saying he's been guided in his own choices by watching what Denzel does in his career, to older esteemed actors like Bruno Ganz calling Denzel his "acting hero".....the reverence he's held in by actors across the board is pretty insane, and a lot of them regardless of race seek to emulate either his technique or work ethic (whatever it is they think is the secret to him being so great). Then there is this chestnut as well:
And Jake Gyllenhaal saying he was first inspired to become an actor by watching Denzel in Glory:
www.scpr.org/programs/the-frame/2014/11/12/40302/frame-first-how-denzel-washington-inspired-jake-gy/
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 30, 2021 21:52:23 GMT
Brando pretty much invented modern film acting I personally consider this a myth and a fallacy. John Garfield, Kirk Douglas and Montgomery Clift were giving what we would consider "modern film acting performances" a few years before Brando even made his screen debut. That post-war modernism in screen acting was not "invented" by Brando. It was happening naturally as a new wave of New York Trained stage actors hit Hollywood after World War Two (though Garfield was in Hollywood before the war, his screen technique kept improving to be more modern after the war). Brando just got given the most excess credit for it, and his personal mannerisms became something other actors wanted to copy (hence James Dean & Paul Newman starting out as essentially Brando wannabes or clones). But I always call bullshit when it's claimed Brando invented modern screen acting. Having said that, his influence is undeniable and greater than the modern actors who were there ahead of him. Other actors wanted to copy his persona more than Douglas, Clift or Garfield, even though their styles and approachs were just as "modern".
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Post by Good God on Apr 30, 2021 22:23:36 GMT
I'm taking this largely from an earlier post of mine, but: "De Niro is the actor that current actors across generations worship. Right from the most respected actors of his subsequent generation like Day-Lewis, Washington, Hanks, and Penn, who have all cited De Niro as being either the primary reason they even became an actor or as an acting hero, to the most respected actors of the current generation like DiCaprio, Phoenix, and Bale, two of whom have called De Niro their favorite actor of all time. Even Streep has said that she learns from De Niro all the time, so this is not just limited to male actors either."
I don't know if any actor will have the influence of De Niro again (particularly because of the seminal work he did with Scorsese that will remain untouchable), but quite a few people have said that DiCaprio is the new De Niro in terms of defining his era and his influence:
Amanda Seyfried (in 2011): "When [Leo] came to visit there was a weird tension on set. Everybody was whispering, ‘He’s here! He’s here!’ You know, he’s like a godfather. He’s like [Robert] De Niro to the younger generation of actors."
Martin Scorsese (in 1999): "I like his acting process. It's very detailed, very true. He has something unique when he's on screen that a lot of other young actors only develop later or never get at all. De Niro had it and so did the young (Al) Pacino. That's what he's got right now and he could be the De Niro of the new century."
And Robert De Niro himself (in 2018), when asked, "Who’s the De Niro of today": "Oh well, there are some wonderful young actors today. I think Leonardo DiCaprio is great, Bradley Cooper is another. There are some even younger actors whose names I can’t recall, but who are terrific."
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Post by futuretrunks on Apr 30, 2021 22:41:12 GMT
Pacino, certainly. Michael Corleone is a massively influential performance, obviously. As is his Tony Montana in terms of how colorful that one is; everyone who goes gloriously over the top has internalized aspects of that.
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Post by countjohn on Apr 30, 2021 22:46:59 GMT
We're listing a lot of modern actors here (Leo, Denzel, Hanks, Viola Davis, Gary Oldman, Nicole Kidman, Viola Davis) who are admired and have great careers but that's not the same thing as "influence". There are lots of great bands for example who aren't particularly influential and didn't do anything new. I don't see how any of those people have "changed acting" outside of I guess the racial aspect with Denzel. Again, doesn't mean they're not good and they might even be better than what preceded them, but they're not as influential. To add another one pacinoyes's mention of Barbra Streisand made me think of Diane Keaton. I know it's for a small amount of roles, pretty much just the late 70's run with Woody, but it really changed female leads in romantic comedies. I've mentioned before how before that you'd never really seen female romantic leads be such screw ups, except for the 30's screwball comedies, which were pretty much 100% broad comedies so it wasn't really the same thing. A lot of those big Julia Roberts roles for example would likely not have been characterized the same way at all if not for Annie Hall. Streisand was similar which is why she made me think of Keaton but the characterization still felt a lot more old Hollywood with her. Humphrey Bogart - Maybe not the most versatile actor (although he's underrated in that department), but Bogart's mystifyingly "cool" persona not only inspired the countless film noirs & b-movie anti-hero detectives that directly followed The Maltese Falcon, but most other "cool guy" types that followed, such as Han Solo and Michel from Breathless. Bogart's archetype really feels like a precursor to the kind of parts Brando (and even DePac and Jack in the 70's) would play later. Obviously a completely different kind of acting, just talking about the characterization. Almost all the character archetypes you still see today in movies still come from old Hollywood. Brando pretty much invented modern film acting I personally consider this a myth and a fallacy. John Garfield, Kirk Douglas and Montgomery Clift were giving what we would consider "modern film acting performances" a few years before Brando even made his screen debut. That post-war modernism in screen acting was not "invented" by Brando. It was happening naturally as a new wave of New York Trained stage actors hit Hollywood after World War Two (though Garfield was in Hollywood before the war, his screen technique kept improving to be more modern after the war). Brando just got given the most excess credit for it, and his personal mannerisms became something other actors wanted to copy (hence James Dean & Paul Newman starting out as essentially Brando wannabes or clones). But I always call bullshit when it's claimed Brando invented modern screen acting. Having said that, his influence is undeniable and greater than the modern actors who were there ahead of him. Other actors wanted to copy his persona more than Douglas, Clift or Garfield, even though their styles and approachs were just as "modern". I think Garfield falls into the Paul Newman category I talked about as sort of being a bridge between classic Hollywood acting and modern acting (although unlike Newman who came before Brando and not after), he doesn't quite fit into either one for me. Clift was of course also Actor's Studio trained but his early performances (Red River, The Heiress, A Place in the Sun) feel a lot more old Hollywood to me. Same type deal with Douglas, you can see the influence of more modern acting in some of his later roles like Lust For Life and the Kubrick roles, but prior to that I really found him to just be a good tough guy actor. The point being, although other Actor's Studio actors were in Hollywood at the time, Brando's run in the first half of the 50's marks the dividing line between "old" and "new" acting. And I'm not sure how much dramatic acting has really changed since which is why I'm a bit dubious about some of the newer names.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 30, 2021 23:05:34 GMT
We're listing a lot of modern actors here (Leo, Denzel, Hanks, Viola Davis, Gary Oldman, Nicole Kidman, Viola Davis) who are admired and have great careers but that's not the same thing as "influence". There are lots of great bands for example who aren't particularly influential and didn't do anything new. I don't see how any of those people have "changed acting" outside of I guess the racial aspect with Denzel. Again, doesn't mean they're not good and they might even be better than what preceded them, but they're not as influential. To add another one pacinoyes's mention of Barbra Streisand made me think of Diane Keaton. I know it's for a small amount of roles, pretty much just the late 70's run with Woody, but it really changed female leads in romantic comedies. I've mentioned before how before that you'd never really seen female romantic leads be such screw ups, except for the 30's screwball comedies, which were pretty much 100% broad comedies so it wasn't really the same thing. A lot of those big Julia Roberts roles for example would likely not have been characterized the same way at all if not for Annie Hall. Streisand was similar which is why she made me think of Keaton but the characterization still felt a lot more old Hollywood with her. Humphrey Bogart - Maybe not the most versatile actor (although he's underrated in that department), but Bogart's mystifyingly "cool" persona not only inspired the countless film noirs & b-movie anti-hero detectives that directly followed The Maltese Falcon, but most other "cool guy" types that followed, such as Han Solo and Michel from Breathless. Bogart's archetype really feels like a precursor to the kind of parts Brando (and even DePac and Jack in the 70's) would play later. Obviously a completely different kind of acting, just talking about the characterization. Almost all the character archetypes you still see today in movies still come from old Hollywood. I personally consider this a myth and a fallacy. John Garfield, Kirk Douglas and Montgomery Clift were giving what we would consider "modern film acting performances" a few years before Brando even made his screen debut. That post-war modernism in screen acting was not "invented" by Brando. It was happening naturally as a new wave of New York Trained stage actors hit Hollywood after World War Two (though Garfield was in Hollywood before the war, his screen technique kept improving to be more modern after the war). Brando just got given the most excess credit for it, and his personal mannerisms became something other actors wanted to copy (hence James Dean & Paul Newman starting out as essentially Brando wannabes or clones). But I always call bullshit when it's claimed Brando invented modern screen acting. Having said that, his influence is undeniable and greater than the modern actors who were there ahead of him. Other actors wanted to copy his persona more than Douglas, Clift or Garfield, even though their styles and approachs were just as "modern". I think Garfield falls into the Paul Newman category I talked about as sort of being a bridge between classic Hollywood acting and modern acting (although unlike Newman who came before Brando and not after), he doesn't quite fit into either one for me. Clift was of course also Actor's Studio trained but his early performances (Red River, The Heiress, A Place in the Sun) feel a lot more old Hollywood to me. Same type deal with Douglas, you can see the influence of more modern acting in some of his later roles like Lust For Life and the Kubrick roles, but prior to that I really found him to just be a good tough guy actor. The point being, although other Actor's Studio actors were in Hollywood at the time, Brando's run in the first half of the 50's marks the dividing line between "old" and "new" acting. And I'm not sure how much dramatic acting has really changed since which is why I'm a bit dubious about some of the newer names. Douglas work in Champion was an obvious direct influence on Raging Bull. It's as modern as modern can be. Ace In The Hole is a scathing modern performance that's an indictment on the modern media and still an influence in cynical, manipulative characterisations today like Gyllenhaal's work in Nightcrawler. It's also the complete opposite of a tough guy performance. Billy Wilder hired him to play that part due to his complexity as an actor (not because he needed a tough guy) and willingness to be unlikable, and it paid off in a film and performance that feels as relevant and modern today as when it was first made. Those performances were in 1949 and 1951 respectively, long pre-dating Lust For Life in 1956. So I'd respectfully disagree that Douglas discovered "modern" screen acting in the mid 1950's or on first working with Kubrick. He was giving modern screen performances before Brando made his screen debut and during Brando's ascension in Hollywood. In fact, Douglas is my Best Actor win for Ace In The Hole over Brando in A Streetcar Named Desire in 1951. For me Douglas was doing equally "modern" work on film deserving of the Academy Award, the same year Brando gave his perfomance that some like to claim birthed modern screen acting. I understand what you are saying (Brando being considered the dividing line between old and new), but I think a lot of that is mostly based on myth making and hype, as opposed to acknowledging the actual reality that other actors were doing equally modern screen work at the same time and just before Brando. It's just easier, sexier (and lazier) to claim Brando came up with modern screen acting than to acknowledge that it was a process that took several years and a handful of other actors to make happen.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 30, 2021 23:33:57 GMT
Humphrey Bogart - Maybe not the most versatile actor (although he's underrated in that department), but Bogart's mystifyingly "cool" persona not only inspired the countless film noirs & b-movie anti-hero detectives that directly followed The Maltese Falcon, but most other "cool guy" types that followed, such as Han Solo and Michel from Breathless. I love Bogart and like Nicholson who to me is his closest parallel - since their characters they played overlapped with what we assumed their off-screen personalities were like too - so actors didn't just want to copy them they wanted to be "like them" off-screen too. One thing I thought of that's interesting to me is that females on the small screen vs. the big screen played a more influential role for comedy. Like I would think a lot of female comediennes maybe grew up wanting to be say Lucille Ball and Carol Burnett more than any female big screen comedienne except maybe Judy Holiday and Madeline Kahn .......
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Post by michael128 on Apr 30, 2021 23:47:14 GMT
streep, kudrow, knowles-carter, wood, paulson, bullock, scott, garland
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Post by franklin on Apr 30, 2021 23:58:48 GMT
It may be cliché but Brando, DeNiro and Day-Lewis are probably the three most influential actors in modern cinema history. Also Olivier who defined the British theatre acting tradition. James Dean and Humphrey Bogart also deserve a shout out.
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Post by futuretrunks on May 1, 2021 0:23:19 GMT
This goes without saying, but we shouldn't conflate "most influential" with "greatest"/"most admired"/"most respected"/etc. Because there is a difference. David Lynch is one of the absolute greatest and most original directors of all time, but I'd find it kind of silly to name him among the most influential given the inability of anybody else to even somewhat emulate his creative praxis (at least in his most Lynchian work). Whereas another major genius like Hitchcock is so influential most people can't see the extent to which he infected cinema/TV/youtube/tiktok/whatever.
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on May 1, 2021 2:21:06 GMT
This goes without saying, but we shouldn't conflate "most influential" with "greatest"/"most admired"/"most respected"/etc. Because there is a difference. David Lynch is one of the absolute greatest and most original directors of all time, but I'd find it kind of silly to name him among the most influential given the inability of anybody else to even somewhat emulate his creative praxis (at least in his most Lynchian work). Whereas another major genius like Hitchcock is so influential most people can't see the extent to which he infected cinema/TV/youtube/tiktok/whatever.
The closest person I can think of is Richard Kelly with Donnie Darko. Unfortunately he only found lightning in a bottle once with that film and didn't find any success after that. And the less said about Southland Tales the better.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 1, 2021 7:51:00 GMT
This goes without saying, but we shouldn't conflate "most influential" with "greatest"/"most admired"/"most respected"/etc. Because there is a difference. David Lynch is one of the absolute greatest and most original directors of all time, but I'd find it kind of silly to name him among the most influential given the inability of anybody else to even somewhat emulate his creative praxis (at least in his most Lynchian work). Whereas another major genius like Hitchcock is so influential most people can't see the extent to which he infected cinema/TV/youtube/tiktok/whatever. This is quite true and I did say this in the OP as well differentiated "favorite" as well.......there's negative influence too: I would say Brando is in his own way a big "negative influence" too - in that people misrepresented what he did and or simply couldn't do it. As for Lynch - I think of him much like I do The Velvet Underground or The Fall - when people say how can a band that sold so little initially be THAT influential but the point is everyone who heard them then created some Art themselves.... I see many "Lynch-like" movies all the time........I never see anyone who is "the new David Lynch" however. Said this before though: Hagazussa: A Heathen's Curse (2017) is a film Lynch could have made himself so much you can't avoid saying his stamp is all over that work.
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