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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 29, 2021 20:49:57 GMT
What a stupendous find - afaik this might be the only place to see Forbidden Room with subtitles at all currently.........since I'm watching every giallo ever made I'll be on here for the forseeable future......um Side note - I may have mentioned this in my review but technically Forbidden Room is not a really a true giallo ................but it feels like one and I'm a big fan ................................ Spoiler alert for after having seen it: no murders, not a giallo!
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 5, 2021 20:56:21 GMT
Francesca (2014) - ~ 7 / 10 (2014 /2015) on TUBIThe Onetti Brothers made this modern giallo before Abrakadabra (2018) and this one is rated even lower on IMDB (5.3, wtf), but is actually superior if you are looking for something more traditional. It doesn't have Abrakadabra's visual panache or sense or deranged incomprehensibility but it is coherent throughout. All their staples are here J&B bottles, creepy Argentoesque dolls, menacing, threatening works of Art (like Argento again) (The Divine Comedy, referenced in their other film briefly).......same detective too appears here. For guys who love giallo so much they don't really love blood or gore - they love the mechanics of the set-ups .......you could watch both this and Abrakadabra and give them harsh reviews.......or you could be like me and just be thankful someone who loves giallo like these guys exists in 2021. Give them a bigger budget and you know, a script (um).........you never know.....
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 13, 2022 20:58:35 GMT
Francesca (2014) - ~ 7 / 10 (2014 /2015) on TUBIThe Onetti Brothers made this modern giallo before Abrakadabra (2018) and this one is rated even lower on IMDB (5.3, wtf), but is actually superior if you are looking for something more traditional. It doesn't have Abrakadabra's visual panache or sense or deranged incomprehensibility but it is coherent throughout. All their staples are here J&B bottles, creepy Argentoesque dolls, menacing, threatening works of Art (like Argento again) (The Divine Comedy, referenced in the other film briefly).......same detective too appears here. For guys who love giallo so much they don't really love blood or gore - they love the mechanics of the set-ups .......you could watch both this and Abrakadabra and give them harsh reviews.......or you could be like me and just be thankful someone who loves giallo like these guys exists in 2021. Give them a bigger budget and you know, a script (um).........you never know..... I talk about the Onetti brothers - particularly Abrakadbra (2018) - a lot (too much). They are sort of like Ed Wood crossed with Argento. Well, they've taken their newfound respectability - since their 2018 "masterpiece" to do new updrades on two older films: Sonno Profundo Redux (2013 original - um, 4.5 on IMDb) and also a director's cut of Francesca (2014 original) ^.I don't care what anybody says, Francesca has some great stuff in it - these guys loooooooooooooooove giallo. ........and I kinda like their love of it....... The new director's cut trailer:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 17:04:14 GMT
Have you guys seen Antonio Margheriti's Seven Deaths in the Cat's Eyes, starring Jane Birkin and Hiram Keller (of Fellini Satyricon fame)? I can't tell who's prettier...
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Nov 3, 2022 4:34:30 GMT
I'm surprised to see Tenebre is so praised. It's one of the Argento movies I despise with every fiber of my being. wilcinema - can I ask what did you dislike about the film? I know that it isn't for everyone (to say the least!) - but your post implies you do like some Argento and I would think that one would be a perfect example of everything he ever did well - the complex look of the film, a great score, a complicated but very coherent plot, beautifully choreographed kills/suspense elements, a genuine reason for existing too - where the director is commenting on his own work and criticism of it and mercilessly then implicates the audience (and those critics) in what they expect from film too.What kind of commentary would you say Argento is offering on his own work and criticism of it? For me, I think the commentary comes through clearest in the scene where Neal is being interviewed by Berti, and Neal disagrees with Berti’s reading of his book being about human perversion, its effect on society, and the killer’s victims being “deviants.” Neal claims that isn’t really what the book is about, and the killer’s actions are the only aberrant behavior…. so it seems to me like Argento is basically using Neal as a self-insert in the film to argue that his own work is often misinterpreted. But what’s interesting is that the misinterpretation of Neal’s work is coming from an obsessive “fan” rather than a critic. In the earlier scene where Tilde calls his book sexist, Neal is never given an opportunity to properly respond, so it’s less clear to me what Argento is saying about his critics here. When you say that Argento implicates the audience in what they expect from film, do you mean that the act of watching the film sort of makes the audience “complicit” in voyeuristically enjoying the luridness that Argento has created, and that the film has no negative effect if it’s not consumed in the first place by those who crave it? If that’s the case, then I’m wondering how critics are implicated as well since they’re approaching the film with a skeptical eye and are not engaging with it in the same way (i.e. the art is not “dangerous” to critics themselves because they don’t “enjoy” the luridness).
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 3, 2022 8:25:38 GMT
wilcinema - can I ask what did you dislike about the film? I know that it isn't for everyone (to say the least!) - but your post implies you do like some Argento and I would think that one would be a perfect example of everything he ever did well - the complex look of the film, a great score, a complicated but very coherent plot, beautifully choreographed kills/suspense elements, a genuine reason for existing too - where the director is commenting on his own work and criticism of it and mercilessly then implicates the audience (and those critics) in what they expect from film too. What kind of commentary would you say Argento is offering on his own work and criticism of it? For me, I think the commentary comes through clearest in the scene where Neal is being interviewed by Berti, and Neal disagrees with Berti’s reading of his book being about human perversion, its effect on society, and the killer’s victims being “deviants.” Neal claims that isn’t really what the book is about, and the killer’s actions are the only aberrant behavior…. so it seems to me like Argento is basically using Neal as a self-insert in the film to argue that his own work is often misinterpreted. But what’s interesting is that the misinterpretation of Neal’s work is coming from an obsessive “fan” rather than a critic. In the earlier scene where Tilde calls his book sexist, Neal is never given an opportunity to properly respond, so it’s less clear to me what Argento is saying about his critics here. When you say that Argento implicates the audience in what they expect from film, do you mean that the act of watching the film sort of makes the audience “complicit” in voyeuristically enjoying the luridness that Argento has created, and that the film has no negative effect if it’s not consumed in the first place by those who crave it? If that’s the case, then I’m wondering how critics are implicated as well since they’re approaching the film with a skeptical eye and are not engaging with it in the same way (i.e. the art is not “dangerous” to critics themselves because they don’t “enjoy” the luridness).Well I meant criitics of his movies in the positive sense too - those who praise Argento too ......he often would clumsily quote (mangle in translation) Poe's famous line The death of a beautiful woman, is unquestionably the most poetical topic in the world ......and people would accuse him of being a misogynist.......while routinely calling him a genius....... But Argento spins this around in the movie, the media (acting as some of Peter's de facto "critics" here) and also on him as creator and by extension Argento too - the dazzlng double murder is both "misogynist" (or sexist in the words of the reporter herself, a "critic" here for whom the Art was quite dangerous) in how gorgeous it's shot (the single best "kill" in all Argento?) but also crushingly sad (ie they are a couple who act like any couple would) - so Argento is saying imo - Horror (as a genre) equally, randomly can kill anybody - and it can't be understood or explained with any labels - you'll always "misread" it.......some will praise it and some will hate it......but will "interpret" it in some way.... But he also implicates Peter in a double way too - in his life he is a misogynist - and the flashback sets up why his Art and Life went as they did and why he created what he created Tenebrae is the best Argento because he addresses a lot of that in that way - lots of doubles (and more than doubles when it comes to water- beaches, fountains, rain, brb gotta pee) and he even has 2 distinct "Dangerous Art" examples - the novel and the sculpture .......usually he stops at 1 - (Plumage, Stendahl Syndrome, Opera, Deep Red etc)........they are not engaged with in the same way either - you may even call one Active and one Passive (arguably).....but ........both can (and do) kill ya ......
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Nov 3, 2022 21:49:08 GMT
the dazzlng double murder is both "misogynist" (or sexist in the words of the reporter herself, a "critic" here for whom the Art was quite dangerous) in how gorgeous it's shot (the single best "kill" in all Argento?) but also crushingly sad (ie they are a couple who act like any couple would) - so Argento is saying imo - Horror (as a genre) equally, randomly can kill anybody - and it can't be understood or explained with any labels - you'll always "misread" it.......some will praise it and some will hate it......but will "interpret" it in some way.... Hmmm, I’m not sure I see how Argento is illustrating this point since none of the murders in the film appear random to me. In the double murder, the killer seems to be targeting Tilde specifically because she was negatively criticizing Neal’s book (Berti, an obsessive fan, is in the room when Tilde calls the book sexist and overhears) , plus the fact that the victims are a lesbian couple indicates that the killer is acting out what he read in the novel – targeting who he considers to be “deviants.” Rather than conveying how horror can equally and randomly kill anybody, the double murder scenario I think mostly contributes to the idea of “dangerous art” that can be misinterpreted, specifically by those who “love” the art.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 3, 2022 22:17:58 GMT
the dazzlng double murder is both "misogynist" (or sexist in the words of the reporter herself, a "critic" here for whom the Art was quite dangerous) in how gorgeous it's shot (the single best "kill" in all Argento?) but also crushingly sad (ie they are a couple who act like any couple would) - so Argento is saying imo - Horror (as a genre) equally, randomly can kill anybody - and it can't be understood or explained with any labels - you'll always "misread" it.......some will praise it and some will hate it......but will "interpret" it in some way.... Hmmm, I’m not sure I see how Argento is illustrating this point since none of the murders in the film appear random to me. The murders are not random but the victims can be even if there's a reason for their targeting which is NOT the reason "(de facto) critics" like Tilde accuse Peter / Argento of - the reason does not "have" to be labeled as sexist, homophobic or judged as deviant victims - (I think) that's Argento's point - they are lesbian, yes and the artist (Peter), fan (Berti), or director (Argento) - none of them - are necessarily homophobic or sexist by them being killed .......I don't believe Berti kills them because they are lesbian (?) only because they "criticized" the Art was my point there.......his motive is rage not the victims personal life (?) - he doesn't categorize them as deviants as far as I recall .......I may be remembering that wrong......there may be a line of dialog that suggests the opposite ........but maybe there is and it slipped my mind?
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Nov 4, 2022 5:09:59 GMT
Hmmm, I’m not sure I see how Argento is illustrating this point since none of the murders in the film appear random to me. The murders are not random but the victims can be even if there's a reason for their targeting which is NOT the reason "(de facto) critics" like Tilde accuse Peter / Argento of - the reason does not "have" to be labeled as sexist, homophobic or judged as deviant victims - (I think) that's Argento's point - they are lesbian, yes and the artist (Peter), fan (Berti), or director (Argento) - none of them - are necessarily homophobic or sexist by them being killed .......I don't believe Berti kills them because they are lesbian (?) only because they "criticized" the Art was my point there.......his motive is rage not the victims personal life (?) - he doesn't categorize them as deviants as far as I recall .......I may be remembering that wrong......there may be a line of dialog that suggests the opposite ........but maybe there is and it slipped my mind? In the scene where Berti is interviewing Neal, Berti believes the book is about the effect of “human perversion” on society, and says that two of the killer’s victims are deviants. Neal disagrees with Berti’s reading and then defends how he portrays a gay victim in the book, arguing that the only aberrant behavior is by the killer himself. Berti says that the killer’s motivation is to eliminate “corruption,” so the fact that Berti’s own actions are inspired by the book suggests what to me is meant to be a clear parallel between the gay victim in the book and the “real life” gay victims. So I think Berti’s motivation can be both rage at the art criticism and their personal life at the same time. I just don’t think the film is written in a way that maximizes articulating the point about how “Horror (as a genre) equally, randomly can kill anybody” since every murder in the film has a specific motivation.... It’s not like Neal and Berti are like Michael Myers, who is much more of an equal-opportunist psycho killer (“No Lives Matter”). Not saying Tenebrae is “wrong” for that, just that I think it’s emphasizing different ideas...
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 6, 2022 9:36:21 GMT
The House of the Yellow Carpet (1983)Not technically a giallo by my defintition anyway - but that plays with giallo tropes - and is unlike any film I can think of in the genre.......and it has "giallo" in the title......um More like Pinter taking a stab at Wait Until Dark - this stars Erland Josephson ffs - star of Bergman, Angelopoulos and my beloved The Sacrifice (1986) by Tarkovsky ........ On Youtube in a sloppy but not indecipherable translation .......not bad.....clever conceit but vaguely unsatisying at the end after all the twists and turns.....but I've given less witty, far worse acted crap ~7 in this thread already so what do I know......
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 4, 2023 8:53:31 GMT
..............On The Narrative Similarities in Dario Argento's Tenebrae (1982) and The Stendhal Syndrome (1996) - Huge Spoilers if you haven't seen - so ........if you haven't ........avoidI could have posted this in the "Double Feature" thread but I think it fits here more .........also I have already written about Tenebrae in the Double Feature thread with De Palma's Sisters Most of the time in horror films victims are killed "by location" - even classics in the genre are simple in this way (ie they are all in the same house (The Shining or mostly in Halloween etc.) or neighborhood maybe - like in A Nightmare on Elm Street). Argento is far more complex usually - in how, why and where - and how he conceives these 2 films - who he decides to kill or be the killer ........in his vision of horror Death is Panoramic - visually but also in the attributes of victims and murderer: In fact the novel within Tenebrae is far more "simplistic"- from what we know of it at least - than Argento's harrowing film is - more killers - more "reasons" to kill, to be killed, across more diverse types....... Argento's movies will make a victim - or murderer - be gay, straight, young, old, rich, poor, male or female........a bit player or the lead .......the very randomness of his worldview makes his best films linger in a really unsettling, subconscious way. That "complexity" also got Argento pegged as a misogynist (of course) - and yet both of these films - 2 of his "masterpieces" are rather overwhelmingly feminist in his way. The survivor / heroine of Tenebrae is a female (but doesn't "have" to be), the empowered (sorta), (co-)villain of The Stendhal Syndrome is a woman who has been through an unspeakable trauma ........ though the trauma of Tenebrae is maybe more "unspeakable" since it is sublimated into books - for years. The oppressor in that trauma was a female to a male victim - and in Stendahl, it is the reverse. You could argue Stendhal Syndrome is a purposeful rewrite in reverse gender of Tenebrae .... In both movies - Argento plays with the narrative POV - switching killer's identities and motivations in clear psychological breaks..........at distinct points the narrative switches and expects the audience's intellect and sympathies to switch along with the film - though you may not realize it on a first watch. Both killers are influenced by their pasts - an ever present Argento narrative device - yet even their past can't exactly be trusted given how unreliable they are to us in the present.........The Stendhal Syndrome predates movies that are not even horror - but rather many psychological dramas post-1996 .............. and you'd be hard pressed to find any film dramas with as complex a narrative framework as Tenebrae........what horror movies can you say such things about? Both are exceptional movies - but I think if you watch them together you learn more about Argento's artistry - when he was on his game - than by watching them apart - you definitely learn a lot about how when you share information - and how - with an audience can totally shape your work itself: A "simple" narrative in either case not only would be lesser but it would also cut down on repeat viewings which is on some level the trick of both movies quality too - where the characters themselves are being revisited by their horrible pasts.........only one is freed from it ...........and that is because of an improbable, random Death (not murder).........it's one of the reasons these 2 movies are so fun to talk about and re-watch ......
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Aug 5, 2023 15:45:30 GMT
Etoile / Ballet Star (1989) - Directed by Peter Del Monte - certainly a precursor to the (far superior) Black Swan. Might make an interesting double feature with that one. Jennifer Connelly is stunning as the American prima ballerina caught in a ghost story in the underworld of European ballet, but her co-star, Gary McCleery (who unfathomably is the film's true lead) is a complete charisma blackhole... Worth checking out for the set designs and cinematography, though. And for Connelly's luscious raven-haired beauty. Have you guys seen this one? pacinoyes Mattsby Javi AllenismLaurent Terzieff is memorable in a supporting role.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 5, 2023 16:08:47 GMT
Etoile / Ballet Star (1989) - Directed by Peter Del Monte - certainly a precursor to the (far superior) Black Swan. Might make an interesting double feature with that one. Jennifer Connelly is stunning as the American prima ballerina caught in a ghost story in the underworld of European ballet, but her co-star, Gary McCleery (who unfathomably is the film's true lead) is a complete charisma blackhole... Worth checking out for the set designs and cinematography, though. And for Connelly's luscious raven-haired beauty. Have you guys seen this one? pacinoyes Mattsby Javi Allenism Laurent Terzieff is memorable in a supporting role.
Yes I've seen it - I love Terzieff so much in the deceptive and complex Le Horla (1966) - almost silent, alone and gorgeous in a doomed French way (um) - I tried to see him in as much as I can .............. I really think that is one of the best performances I've seen in a short movie - and a great movie too (you can find it on rarefilmm, ~40 minutes for those curious, or those interested in any film where pacinoyes describes the male lead as "gorgeous" ) Btw this is a lot like Argento's half-great giallo (the first half) Opera (1987) also.......but yeah not as good as that one either though
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Aug 5, 2023 16:12:06 GMT
pacinoyes - Yes, I saw that a while ago based off your recommendation! I really enjoy Terzieff, too - I have done ever since I saw him in Kapo opposite Susan Strasberg and Emmanuelle Riva. (A great film!)
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Post by pacinoyes on Oct 16, 2023 23:29:02 GMT
Not to be ridiculous because Tenebrae has been discussed a lot - I just posted ^ on April 4th in a looooooooong post ffs - but is there any other filmmaker who has works of Art where form, content and creator are so linked? ........and that lends itself to be deconstructed more? One of the many great things in this masterpiece - and there is almost an endless amount of them - is how the author of the book, the killer and Argento himself work so hard at their dark crafts: It's obvious that from the criticism of Peter Neal's book - that a lot goes into his "horror Art" and it isn't simple obviously.......the killer the first has all kinds of components to his killing - letters, photos, fandom etc, he isn't "just" a maniac ffs........and almost every one of the kills Argento orchestrates is itself a mini-masterpiece of complex set piece directorial design...... none of the pieces of the movie - form (narrative structure), content......... or the creator himself is lazy or offhand.......instead they all work really hard at being so awful.....so the movie works on 3 levels not just 2 ......it's basically meta X 3 ....... I love it so much really.......
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Post by TylerDeneuve on Oct 17, 2023 20:27:36 GMT
What about the only true American giallo, Eyes of Laura Mars starring Faye Dunaway as an effortful hot mess fashion photographer? It was written by John Carpenter! It's a pale imitation of the Italian films IMO, but the supporting cast (including Tommy Lee Jones, Brad Dourif, and Raul Julia) are all quite colorful and the entire film is definitely tinted with the sexy glamour of the 70s, complete with a Helmut Newton created photography portfolio for Dunaway's character (!!!) and a minor role for the gorgeous 70s supermodel, Lisa Taylor. pacinoyes Mattsby Javi MsMovieStar LaraQ
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Post by pacinoyes on Oct 17, 2023 20:50:55 GMT
What about the only true American giallo, Eyes of Laura Mars starring Faye Dunaway as an effortful hot mess fashion photographer? It was written by John Carpenter! It's a pale imitation of the Italian films IMO, but the supporting cast (including Tommy Lee Jones, Brad Dourif, and Raul Julia) are all quite colorful and the entire film is definitely tinted with the sexy glamour of the 70s, complete with a Helmut Newton created photography portfolio for Dunaway's character (!!!) and a minor role for the gorgeous 70s supermodel, Lisa Taylor. pacinoyes Mattsby Javi MsMovieStar LaraQ It's a verrrrrrrrrrry stylized and stylish movie .........has a lot of good components that don't mesh but it's interesting.........I don't think of it as the "only" American giallo myself - De Palma did it best imo because he kept that shit in the gutter Dressed To Kill
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Post by Mattsby on Oct 18, 2023 1:09:22 GMT
What about the only true American giallo, Eyes of Laura Mars starring Faye Dunaway as an effortful hot mess fashion photographer? It was written by John Carpenter! It's a pale imitation of the Italian films IMO, but the supporting cast (including Tommy Lee Jones, Brad Dourif, and Raul Julia) are all quite colorful and the entire film is definitely tinted with the sexy glamour of the 70s, complete with a Helmut Newton created photography portfolio for Dunaway's character (!!!) and a minor role for the gorgeous 70s supermodel, Lisa Taylor. LaraQ The script, and therefore the movie, is better earlier with the ingratiated artist ("You're just the right number of minutes late") and lots of innocent hints of privilege and power that'll play later in a much darker way. I love the cast.... Rene Auberjonois too as her agent. But I think it loses itself as it goes and lacks the sexiness and suspense and the messiness of giallo. Pretty much Dressed to Kill is the ace, as Pac mentions! I also like giallo-adjacent stuff that came right after Laura Mars........ Cruising, Tightrope, some tv thrillers like Through Naked Eyes, some of Sharky's Machine, Jack's Back - and one later, with a similar plot device but manically more fun, Liotta's Unforgettable .
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