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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Apr 24, 2021 10:30:16 GMT
Not sold on Sam's suit but he is already giving speeches like Steve Rogers and that never give up attitude. Yeah, welcome our new Captain America. I'm glad they didn't just stick him in the classic suit like Walker and actually made it more his own. I agree that this ended better than WandaVision did. Overall, I find it pretty striking how this is by far the furthest the MCU has ever gone in delving into overtly political themes, and I'm not just talking about how it deals with race, but also what the role of government should be with the GRC stuff, Karli's whole story, etc. I was a bit confused at the end at first because after Carter shoots Karli, I thought that Sam had overheard Carter reveal that she was the Power Broker, so after Karli died and everything was over, I was like "Ummm are they going to talk about this revelation?" lol. When I was first saw her character in Winter Soldier (I think?), I definitely wasn't expecting them to make her character into a villain(?) eventually...
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Post by JangoB on Apr 29, 2021 20:38:32 GMT
Well, I thought this was a bit of a chore to sit through every week apart from some fun moments. Gimme WandaVision any day over this - a show with actual personality, sense of fun and characters I give a crap about.
Also, there was a lot of speechifying in the end there but 'Let's not call them terrorists' - fucking really? Listen, Sammy, we can surely sit down and discuss the reasons for their actions but that'd be a different conversation. They're still motherfucking terrorists who blew up innocent people left and right.
And Wyatt Russell was just bad.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 29, 2021 21:02:31 GMT
I liked this more than WandaVision (in hindsight, I hated the way that show ended and tried to let Wanda off the hook. She is an absolute villain, and the show forcing us to minimise her actions as an audience was a huge failure that hurt so much of the show' s good work). It's more grounded and might have some of the best and most genuine " mismatched buddy" chemistry since Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie. Supporting cast was incredible, with standout performances from Daniel Bruhl as Baron Zemo, Emily Van Camp as Sharon Carter, Cle Bennett as Lemar Hoskins, Adepero Oduye as Sarah Wilson, Florence Kasumba as Ayo and Wyatt Russell who may have given the best performance on the show as John Walker, the replacement Captain America who eventually becomes known as USAgent. Though Carl Lumbly's tragic African-American Super Soldier Isaiah Bradley may challenge Russell for the show's best performance, with far less screen time
It's fascinating to see how much more interesting Steve Roger's supporting cast becomes when he is not there sucking up all the oxygen in the room. Wasn't a big fan of Erin Kellyman's Karli Morgenthau, But that was more due to the way her character was written than the actress, who was fine.
All in all, a wonderful show with endless possibilities and characters you want to spend more time with. I'd even dig a Zemo spin-off. I know Captain America 4 has been announced to star Mackie's Sam Wilson, but hopefully this gets a second season as well for us to spend even more time with these great characters.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 30, 2021 4:10:54 GMT
Also, the person on this Twitter thread made a good point about the potentially wide ranging implications for the MCU and past motivations of characters with the Isaiah Bradley reveal. Like how much were people we previously saw as purely altruistic like Howard Stark or Peggy Carter potentially complicit in Bradley's torture , imprisionment and experimentation for the Super-Soldier serum in his blood?
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flasuss
Badass
Posts: 1,832
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Post by flasuss on Apr 30, 2021 11:00:08 GMT
There is no evidence Stark or Carter had any knowledge or participation in Isaiah's experiments. In fact, sounds the shady non-sense the US government did during the Cold War, and they wouldn't use people who might make the whole affair public and wouldn't be easy to silence.
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Post by pupdurcs on May 4, 2021 5:47:35 GMT
Great Huffington Post interview/profile of Carl Lumbly, who is getting a lot of love and some talk of a potential Emmy nomination for his exceptional performance as Isaiah Bradley. Nice to see an underrated/undervalued journeyman character actor get this type of attention late in his career.
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Post by pupdurcs on May 4, 2021 15:27:23 GMT
Well, in terms of viewership, this show was a bigger hit than WandaVision.
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Post by Martin Stett on Mar 24, 2022 2:40:40 GMT
Episode 1
What. Ever.
I am already so deeply apathetic towards this. The fight scenes are messy and make no sense, but whatever. Bucky's shrink is a moron, but whatever. The subplot of Sam trying to get a loan is Disneyfied social commentary - that is, it wants points for tackling "important subjects" without actually doing any sort of deep questioning (we're just here for the virtue signaling, thanks!) - but whatever. The characters feel the need to speak their feelings out loud instead of demonstrating anything through their actions, but whatever. The scene with Sam saying that the man is more important than the symbol is COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT and completely misunderstands what Captain America is supposed to stand for, but whatever. The ending reveal is a complete clusterfuck, but whatever.
None of these are terrible or anything. I just don't care. This is so clearly D-grade material already that I just can't be bothered to give a shit. Okay, so I was spoiled by coming off a genuine masterpiece and the best American show I've ever seen (Arcane!!!!) and that is no doubt one of the reasons I'm so bored by this. Going from greatness to mediocrity will make the mediocrity look especially terrible in comparison. But I don't think I'd ever be able to be positive about this even if I was giving it a fair shake. The next five episodes will be a nightmare, I just know it. *sniff*
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Mar 24, 2022 3:55:59 GMT
Geez, I don’t even remember this show
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Post by Martin Stett on Mar 25, 2022 2:01:44 GMT
Episode 2
My life is hell. I am in hell.
Let's start with the good. I think that the idea behind John Walker is pretty good: an attempt by an ailing country to create a powerful symbol of unity that means something to ordinary people. Unfortunately, we are never given any insight into why the government would create a new Cap, and I'm just making that idea up. It seems that the USA just wants some guy to beat people up and they call him Captain America because...? It's like the American propaganda department is as fucking stupid as the writers at Marvel. The new Captain America doesn't mean anything, because the only thing he stands for is beating shit up - that is even made clear in his interview! Maybe the show will actually dive into the concept of old symbols being bastardized by people who don't understand them, but that's giving Marvel too much credit and I know it.
Oh right, good things. Um... I kind of sort of like the idea of the Flag Smashers? If I squint? Sure, the ONLY real insight into their ethos is "the government that came into power after the blip sucks," but we can go places with this if the show actually looks into the justifications of their actions and what they plan on doing. Like, say, three full episodes developing their point of view and why they believe things were better during the blip... that would be nice. Of course, the current version of the Flag Smashers is NOTHING AT ALL and we have no idea of what drives them outside of two sentences in the whole fucking show, but hey, maybe the writers will actually dive into the concept of disillusioned freedom fighters who don't trust their governments. But that's giving Marvel too much credit and I know it.
Umm.... everything else sucks. The action is weightless and dull, John is such an over-the-top tool that there's no mistaking that we're meant to dislike him, the plot is still nonexistent after one third of the story. If the show actually looked into the morality of our two heroes and why THE SHIELD(!!!!!!!) is so important to them, that would be nice. But this is the franchise that sided with Tony fucking Stark in Iron Man 2 when he was the damn villain. This is the franchise that said "they'll never understand what you sacrificed" to someone who tortured thousands of people because she was having a bad day. This franchise will never have any actual moral qualms about its "heroes."
Well, four more episodes. Can I get through it without blowing my brains out? I think I have the same odds of living through this as I would playing russian roulette.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 25, 2022 4:24:44 GMT
Dude...just stop watching it. If I think something sucks and complain that it's "hell" in both first and second episodes, I'd find something better to do with my time.
The show obviously isn't for you and that's fine, but why keep watching content you think is terrible? There isn't enough time in the day and there's waaaaaay too many other things to watch (TV and film content is oversaturated at this point) that you might like to keep wasting your time hate-watching something.
I think the show is incredible, but obviously people have different tastes. You might as well just move on to something you'll like. Just a thought, buy do you.
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Post by Martin Stett on Mar 25, 2022 14:26:00 GMT
Dude...just stop watching it. If I think something sucks and complain that it's " hell" in both first and second episodes, I'd find something better to do with my time. The show obviously isn't for you and that's fine, but why keep watching content you think is terrible? There isn't enough time in the day and there's waaaaaay too many other things to watch (TV and film content is oversaturated at this point) that you might like to keep wasting your time hate-watching something. I think the show is incredible, but obviously people have different tastes. You might as well just move on to something you'll like. Just a thought, buy do you. Well, there's a few reasons I'm sticking with it: 1. I think that this could tie into future MCU, and being out of the loop is annoying. 2. I'm being hyperbolic. Yes, this is currently the worst thing the MCU has ever done, but I like complaining about things. 3. In fact, complaining about things is what makes stuff like this fun. It isn't that long and it gives me plenty to grumble about. 4. I'm stealing this, so it's not like I'm paying the evil megacorporation for torturing me. Edit: To be clear, I don't normally watch TV that I can't stand. The day before starting Falcon, I tried one episode of The Underground Railroad and hated it, so I quit. But I have a soft spot for hating on Marvel and I'm watching it with my sister (who also thinks that this is terrible, so we don't have a lot to argue about this time ). We chat about each episode the same we do with the movies, so it keeps things fresh for us.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Mar 25, 2022 16:14:25 GMT
I’ll just say, I think it gets better as it goes, but honestly, I still didn’t like it. Its one of the few MCU products that I find easily forgettable
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Mar 26, 2022 1:50:36 GMT
I think the best episodes are definitely the next stretch prior to the finale.
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Post by Martin Stett on Mar 26, 2022 2:11:22 GMT
Episode 3
Well, that wasn't so bad. It was by the numbers and sorta dull, but a big improvement upon the utter tedium of the first two eps.
Madripoor was kind of cool... even if it is just the town from the anime Black Lagoon without all the cool stuff like missionaries secretly running weapons dealing operations. And this show doesn't have this scene either:
I miss Black Lagoon. Sure, it REALLY sucked when it was bad, but it made Michael Bay look like Pee-Wee Herman when it was good.
Where was I? Ah, yes, this show. Not much to say. I didn't like Zemo in Civil War for one key reason: his master plan was completely fucking moronic. The concept of his character was fine, and Daniel Bruhl was extraordinary, delivering far more power to the character than he was given on paper. He's less impressive here, but still the best in cast by a long shot. He looks to be having fun, so that's something.
The Flag Smashers are still frustrating. Their whole subplot is too underdeveloped. I want them to be the focus. I want to know what makes them tick, and why the GRC is failing so badly in their stated mission. Instead, they are relegated to a side plot. This makes them terrible as antagonists. If the bad guys stand for something - and clearly, they are not meant to be all bad - we must be given enough information to show why they feel they are the good guys. And then the story MUST show why they are wrong. I fear that this will do the normal Marvel thing and just say "killing people = bad" instead of getting into the psychology of freedom fighters/terrorists and examine what makes their particular brand of killing worse than what the good guys do.
Eh, whatever. This was forgettable, but could have been a lot worse.
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Post by Martin Stett on Mar 30, 2022 2:56:19 GMT
Episode 4
Hmmm..... I feel like I'll have real, philosophical differences with this show if I really begin breaking it down. Something about this rubbed me the wrong way, and I can't place what it was. A great deal of it was John Walker being a complete moron for the entire episode. The man isn't evil, he's just REALLY FUCKING STUPID (he charges in on the funeral, he antagonizes the Wakandans, he gets emotional in combat) and the writers are equating that with evil. His actions have nothing to do with his viewpoint. He supposedly "represents" America, but I don't see how. He represents a moron. He represents a hothead. He doesn't represent any sort of governmental viewpoint.
And then there are the Flag Smashers. We get a lot more development here, and this is where I can't wrap my head around what bothers me. They are fighting against... starving, I guess. That's... fine? But it is also trying to portray them as fighting against hatred and bigotry - which are somehow equated with "corporations" - and showing this as a righteous cause, because the marginalized around the world are being held down by The Man. But... what are they fighting for, exactly? I don't mean in just practical terms (although I haven't the faintest idea what their end goal is meant to be), but what makes their experience as "internationally displaced persons" something so precious that they must tear down the world's governments? What philosophical goal are they aiming for? They want a world without borders because everybody was nice to each other during the Blip, but how are their actions going to achieve any sort of unity between peoples? Do they have any idea? Are the writers aware of this?
Also, HOLY FALSE EQUIVALENCE by comparing starving Flag Smashers with someone who can't get a loan because the writers have made up a situation that has no real world analog. You can't just say "Sam's sister is being held down by CORPORATIONS" and equate that with bureaucracy run amok and stopping food supplies from getting to starving people.
*sigh* This is probably just my distaste for the first three episodes coming through, but this... doesn't smell right. I can't work out what the show is actually trying to say. It feels muddled and I feel muddled trying to decipher it.
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