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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 9, 2021 19:49:22 GMT
Interesting development in that the critics body basically rallies to support their critic and tells Variety they are spineless cowards (um) and Mulligan at best misunderstood the review or maybe ...........even exploited it as a campaign tool this season (which is smart actually). Complicated story but interesting: “I read the Variety review because I’m a weak person,” Mulligan told Buchanan. “And I took issue with it. It felt like it was basically saying that I wasn’t hot enough to pull off this kind of ruse.” And so Variety rushed right in, apologized to Mulligan (and by inference Focus features) and posted the following above Harvey’s review:
“Variety sincerely apologizes to Carey Mulligan and regrets the insensitive language and insinuation in our review of 'Promising Young Woman' that minimized her daring performance,” the note reads.
TODAY: FROM THE NATIONAL SOCIETY OF FILM CRITICS REGARDING VARIETY’S APOLOGY FOR ITS PROMISING YOUNG WOMAN REVIEW (dated 2.9.21)
“We, the members of the National Society of Film Critics, wish to register our alarm at Variety’s shabby treatment of our colleague Dennis Harvey.
“On Jan. 26, 2020, Variety published Harvey’s review of the movie Promising Young Woman from the Sundance Film Festival. (Full disclosure: The review was edited by Peter Debruge, Variety’s chief film critic and a member of the NSFC.) While praising the film, Harvey wrote that Carey Mulligan, “a fine actress, seems a bit of an odd choice” as the movie’s “many-layered apparent femme fatale” protagonist, noting distancing aspects of the character’s costuming, hairstyling and vocal delivery. He went on to praise Mulligan’s performance as “skillful, entertaining and challenging, even when the eccentric method obscures the precise message.”
“On Dec. 24, 2020, almost a year later and in the thick of awards season, Mulligan noted her objections to Harvey’s review in a New York Times profile: ‘It felt like it was basically saying that I wasn’t hot enough to pull off this kind of ruse.’
“Mulligan, like any artist, is within her rights to respond to criticism of her work, just as we are within our rights to assert that nothing in Harvey’s review — which focuses on the actor’s stylized presentation, not her attractiveness — supports her claim. But differences of opinion in the evaluation of a film or a performance are not at issue here. What concerns us is Variety’s subsequent decision to place an editor’s note at the top of the review: “Variety sincerely apologizes to Carey Mulligan and regrets the insensitive language and insinuation in our review of Promising Young Woman that minimized her daring performance.”
“If Variety felt the language in Harvey’s review was insensitive and insinuating, it had the option of working with him to fix that in the editing process before it ran. There are also ways Variety could have acknowledged and responded to Mulligan’s criticism, rather than simply capitulating to it and undermining its own critic in the process. The imposition of a subjective value judgment (‘her daring performance’) as a flat editorial perspective, as if it were a matter of inarguable fact rather than opinion, is particularly inappropriate.
“We believe the editor’s note should be removed."
www.thewrap.com/national-critics-group-slams-variety-for-shabby-treatment-of-freelance-critic-over-carey-mulligan-review/
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Javi
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Post by Javi on Feb 9, 2021 20:52:35 GMT
Well, Variety are spineless cowards I read the review, nothing remotely insensitive there imo.
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Post by michael128 on Feb 9, 2021 21:19:25 GMT
More publicity for my girl Carey. Oscar here she comes.
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Post by mhynson27 on Feb 10, 2021 1:19:48 GMT
More publicity for my girl Carey. Oscar here she comes. This. I actually think all these critics being a bunch of whiny babies will only help Carey even more.
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Post by mhynson27 on Feb 10, 2021 1:21:58 GMT
Also, interesting to see that some of you don't see anything wrong with a man writing a review saying that a woman isn't hot enough to be raped. Class just oozing from every pore.
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Post by Sharbs on Feb 10, 2021 1:39:49 GMT
Also, interesting to see that some of you don't see anything wrong with a man writing a review saying that a woman isn't hot enough to be raped. Class just oozing from every pore. doesn't once say that
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Feb 10, 2021 2:02:46 GMT
Also, interesting to see that some of you don't see anything wrong with a man writing a review saying that a woman isn't hot enough to be raped. Class just oozing from every pore. doesn't once say that Yeah, I’m having a hard time connecting the dots on that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 2:18:33 GMT
Yeah, I’m having a hard time connecting the dots on that. I think it's only because Harvey said in his review that he felt Margot Robbie (the more conventionally attractive woman) would have been a better fit for the role.
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Javi
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Post by Javi on Feb 10, 2021 2:25:44 GMT
Also, interesting to see that some of you don't see anything wrong with a man writing a review saying that a woman isn't hot enough to be raped. Class just oozing from every pore. If "class" means knowing how to read and not making things up, yep.
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Post by mhynson27 on Feb 10, 2021 2:30:29 GMT
Like Tyler mentioned, Harvey said that Carey isn't attractive enough for the role and that Margot would have made for sense for that character. The very first thing we see Cassie do, and she does it numerous times throughout the movie, is pretend to be drunk at a club/bar to see if some dude will take advantage of her. Why does a woman need to be 'attractive enough' to be taken advantage of?? It's perpetuating a fucked line of thinking that only attractive women get sexually assaulted/raped. I'm failing to see what Harvey could possibly mean otherwise when he unnecessarily mentioned Mulligan's looks. And then on top of that you have the deeply misogynistic 'bad drag' comment. There aren't too many dots that need to connected, because the troubling sexism that reeks throughout the review is about as subtle as a brick to the face.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 2:34:49 GMT
Like Tyler mentioned, Harvey said that Carey isn't attractive enough for the role and that Margot would have made for sense for that character. The very first thing we see Cassie do, and she does it numerous times throughout the movie, is pretend to be drunk at a club/bar to see if some dude will take advantage of her. Why does a woman need to be 'attractive enough' to be taken advantage of?? It's perpetuating a fucked line of thinking that only attractive women get sexually assaulted/raped. I'm failing to see what Harvey could possibly mean otherwise when he unnecessarily mentioned Mulligan's looks. And then on top of that you have the deeply misogynistic 'bad drag' comment. There aren't too many dots that need to connected, because the troubling sexism that reeks throughout the review is about as subtle as a brick to the face. He doesn't say this explicitly, but I think because he offered Robbie (who looks like a Barbie doll) as the alternative, that's what was inferred. Edit: Certainly it was inferred by Mulligan, at any rate.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 10, 2021 2:40:34 GMT
Yeah, I’m having a hard time connecting the dots on that. I think it's only because Harvey said in his review that he felt Margot Robbie (the more conventionally attractive woman) would have been a better fit for the role. Yeah, I think it is that although when you read his point in context it's quite valid in that he's saying Mulligan (who I loved in a movie I liked) isn't maybe perfect for the role and is perhaps too self-aware but people jumped all over it. i mean agree or disagree it's a valid critical point to make - he makes a point and backs it up with an example - there's physicality and there's sex appeal - not the same thing - and he's pretty clearly focused on the physicality of performance which is not surprising since he's a gay man he's not looking at the hotness of the actress in question. Certainly it's as valid as MAR mainman pacinoyes who got jumped all over for saying Parasite - his 3rd best movie of 2019 that he rated an 8.5+ has a couple big script lapses........um.......but don't say that boy, they will flog you to death for that penetrating look into the obvious
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 2:44:36 GMT
I think it's only because Harvey said in his review that he felt Margot Robbie (the more conventionally attractive woman) would have been a better fit for the role. Yeah, I think it is that although when you read his point in context it's quite valid in that he's saying Mulligan (who I loved in a movie I liked) isn't maybe perfect for the role and is perhaps too self-aware but people jumped all over it. i mean agree or disagree it's a valid critical point to make - he makes a point and backs it up with an example - there's physicality and there's sex appeal - not the same thing - and he's pretty clearly focused on the physicality of performance which is not surprising since he's a gay man he's not looking at the hotness of the actress in question. Certainly it's as valid as MAR mainman pacinoyes who got jumped all over for saying Parasite - his 3rd best movie of 2019 that he rated an 8.5+ has a couple big script lapses........um.......but don't say that boy, they will flog you to death for that penetrating look into the obvious I agree that's the point he was making, and in so doing I think he missed the point himself - the character says something along the lines of "I wasn't very 'bang-able' in my college days" - she has adopted this sort of "drag" as a means of exacting her revenge - I don't think it's meant to seem natural or innate in her. Just my $0.02.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 10, 2021 2:56:35 GMT
Yeah, I think it is that although when you read his point in context it's quite valid in that he's saying Mulligan (who I loved in a movie I liked) isn't maybe perfect for the role and is perhaps too self-aware but people jumped all over it. i mean agree or disagree it's a valid critical point to make - he makes a point and backs it up with an example - there's physicality and there's sex appeal - not the same thing - and he's pretty clearly focused on the physicality of performance which is not surprising since he's a gay man he's not looking at the hotness of the actress in question. Certainly it's as valid as MAR mainman pacinoyes who got jumped all over for saying Parasite - his 3rd best movie of 2019 that he rated an 8.5+ has a couple big script lapses........um.......but don't say that boy, they will flog you to death for that penetrating look into the obvious I agree that's the point he was making, and in so doing I think he missed the point himself - the character says something along the lines of "I wasn't very 'bang-able' in my college days" - she has adopted this sort of "drag" as a means of exacting her revenge - I don't think it's meant to seem natural or innate in her. Just my $0.02. Yes exactly ................ bob-coppola had a great dissection of the film's visual palette and approach in his review - he was quite moved by it - and how they meshed and contrasted - one of the best things I've read on here recently ...............and that you can tell this critic either didn't get or didn't buy at least as a successful device in how an audience would read it apart from the filmmaker's desired intent. It's a great topic to discuss this movie actually and good point @tyler
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 3:10:31 GMT
pacinoyes - I do think Mulligan is using it as a campaign tactic (or her team is directing her to...). Reviewers have stated explicitly before (pre-MeToo) that she lacked the beauty necessary for a part ( The Great Gatsby), and that simply wasn't the case here.
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Post by mhynson27 on Feb 10, 2021 3:36:48 GMT
pacinoyes - I do think Mulligan is using it as a campaign tactic (or her team is directing her to...). Reviewers have stated explicitly before (pre-MeToo) that she lacked the beauty necessary for a part ( The Great Gatsby), and that simply wasn't the case here. I don't see how it can be viewed as a campaign tactic when she has only mentioned it twice, and one of those times she was specifically asked about it by Zendaya and Carey accepted Variety's apology. That was the last time she mentioned it, and that was like 3 weeks ago. The only people still talking about it, are the fucking critics.
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Post by pendragon on Feb 10, 2021 3:42:25 GMT
pacinoyes - I do think Mulligan is using it as a campaign tactic (or her team is directing her to...). Reviewers have stated explicitly before (pre-MeToo) that she lacked the beauty necessary for a part ( The Great Gatsby), and that simply wasn't the case here. People have said this, but when else was she supposed to have brought it up? The film had been on the shelf since Sundance and the interview was in tandem with the theatrical release. In fact, she said her team tried to dissuade her from saying anything and she herself debated whether or not to for fear of rocking the boat.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 10, 2021 5:34:02 GMT
Like Tyler mentioned, Harvey said that Carey isn't attractive enough for the role and that Margot would have made for sense for that character. Except Harvey didn't say that. In no way, shape, or form was that even implied in the review, and I've read that particular paragraph in the review at least 5 times. I trust that's what Mulligan inferred from the review (though I'm struggling to see how), but it doesn't mean we all have to throw our own comprehension out the window and defer to her interpretation of the review.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 10, 2021 5:50:42 GMT
I think it's only because Harvey said in his review that he felt Margot Robbie (the more conventionally attractive woman) would have been a better fit for the role. The line in question: "Mulligan, a fine actress, seems a bit of an odd choice as this admittedly many-layered apparent femme fatale — Margot Robbie is a producer here, and one can (perhaps too easily) imagine the role might once have been intended for her." I think most people here would agree that when they think "femme fatale", they're more likely to think of Angelina Jolie and Margot Robbie than Kate Winslet and Carey Mulligan. It doesn't even necessarily mean that you think Jolie is more attractive than Winslet. It just means that Jolie has played more femme fatale types (Original Sin, Mr. & Mrs. Smith, Wanted, Salt, etc.) than someone like Winslet, just like Robbie has played more femme fatale types (Focus, Terminal, Dreamland, etc.) than someone like Mulligan. Harvey was pretty explicit in what he meant when he said Robbie was perhaps the more seemingly obvious choice. He doesn't even claim that Robbie would definitely be the better choice; just that you'd expect Robbie to be considered for the role before Mulligan. That people are actually offended by something that plainly obvious is... well, not really that surprising anymore.
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Feb 10, 2021 6:35:03 GMT
pacinoyes - I do think Mulligan is using it as a campaign tactic (or her team is directing her to...). Reviewers have stated explicitly before (pre-MeToo) that she lacked the beauty necessary for a part ( The Great Gatsby), and that simply wasn't the case here. I don't see how it can be viewed as a campaign tactic when she has only mentioned it twice, and one of those times she was specifically asked about it by Zendaya and Carey accepted Variety's apology. That was the last time she mentioned it, and that was like 3 weeks ago. The only people still talking about it, are the fucking critics. A mature actress with a thick skin and a healthy self-esteem would have never accepted their apology & instead stated the obvious: SHE WAS NEVER FUCKING OWED ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!! Then again, such an actress wouldn't have been bitching & moaning about a little criticism in the first place. And I read the review, and, again, there was NOTHING sexist about it. ZERO. He said she wasn't a conventional choice for the role, and he's 100% absolutely right about that. He never even remotely implied she wasn't "hot enough to be raped." That's just a pathetic SJW reach. And the "critics" are the ones being babies?!? Suuuuure, Jan. 🤦♂️
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Post by pendragon on Feb 10, 2021 6:42:55 GMT
I think it's only because Harvey said in his review that he felt Margot Robbie (the more conventionally attractive woman) would have been a better fit for the role. The line in question: "Mulligan, a fine actress, seems a bit of an odd choice as this admittedly many-layered apparent femme fatale — Margot Robbie is a producer here, and one can (perhaps too easily) imagine the role might once have been intended for her." I think most people here would agree that when they think "femme fatale", they're more likely to think of Angelina Jolie and Margot Robbie than Kate Winslet and Carey Mulligan. It doesn't even necessarily mean that you think Jolie is more attractive than Winslet. It just means that Jolie has played more femme fatale types (Original Sin, Mr. & Mrs. Smith, Wanted, Salt, etc.) than someone like Winslet, just like Robbie has played more femme fatale types (Focus, Terminal, Dreamland, etc.) than someone like Mulligan. Harvey was pretty explicit in what he meant when he said Robbie was perhaps the more seemingly obvious choice. He doesn't even claim that Robbie would definitely be the better choice; just that you'd expect Robbie to be considered for the role before Mulligan. That people are actually offended by something that plainly obvious is... well, not really that surprising anymore. It's more the next line ("Whereas with this star, Cassie wears her pickup-bait gear like bad drag; even her long blonde hair seems a put-on.") that people are objecting to more. He's not explicitly saying it, no, but it can easily be read that way. Even if he didn't mean it, it's poor wording on his part and he should have at least acknowledged that rather than try to blame everyone else. Especially him saying that Mulligan was crazy for reading it that way and suggesting that she's only doing it to get an Oscar sounds awfully like gaslighting. There's a dark irony that this is happening around this particular film.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Feb 10, 2021 6:47:58 GMT
Like Tyler mentioned, this reads to me more like the reviewer just missed the point of Mulligan's character, whose revenge scheme involves a self-conscious, performative alteration of her own appearance... to me it seems like Harvey is just confused about why they didn't just cast someone that already looked that way (in terms of physicality, not attractiveness like pacinoyes said - you could ask a similar question about why cast Colin Farrell as Penguin in The Batman when you could cast someone who looks more like the character)....... but again in Mulligan's case that misses the whole point of the character in the first place. If the performative aspect to the character didn't exist, and the physical appearance of Mulligan's character doesn't change, then I'm not sure if the reviewer would have brought up Robbie as a more obvious choice for the role.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 10, 2021 7:11:38 GMT
It's more the next line ("Whereas with this star, Cassie wears her pickup-bait gear like bad drag; even her long blonde hair seems a put-on.") that people are objecting to more. He's not explicitly saying it, no, but it can easily be read that way. That's explicitly a comment on Cassie's attire, not on Carey Mulligan's looks or beauty. I thought Cassie looked much more pretty in her coffee shop attire than her pickup-bait attire (which looked fake and trashy, by design), so I can see what Harvey meant by that comment. But I agree with Tyler that it was a misguided observation and a poor review in general for several reasons, and highlighted Harvey's misunderstanding of the movie and what it was saying. His review still doesn't comment on Mulligan's looks, let alone be sexist or misogynistic. I think it's ill-considered for people to expect one party to be charitable when the other party isn't. One could just as easily argue that Mulligan is gaslighting Harvey by claiming he said she wasn't hot enough. While Harvey could have been the bigger person and handled this more graciously, I don't think it's fair to blame him for responding in kind. Personally, I like to give most people the benefit of doubt. I read the review, Harvey doesn't explicitly say anything Mulligan inferred from his review, and he has later denied it himself. I will give him the benefit of doubt (although, honestly, I don't really have much of a doubt going by my interpretation of his review). Mulligan says her inference from the review was that Harvey was saying she wasn't hot enough for the role. I will give her the benefit of doubt and assume she honestly interpreted the review that way and isn't claiming that as part of an Oscar campaign (because she only just mentioned it in passing and is not responsible for this thing blowing up anyway). But it's hard for me to blame Harvey for not being charitable enough to apologize for his wording when Variety and Mulligan haven't been charitable enough to accept Harvey's elucidation of his review.
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Post by Sharbs on Feb 10, 2021 7:30:39 GMT
just trying to point out that the following sentiment wasn't expressed in the review. He was referring to the femme-fatale like nature of the role, not some attractive meter pertaining to whether or not a woman is able to be raped(ew). It's an odd gap to fill in, but you and Carey and whoever have every right to do so. Using that quote as a cover-all blanket statement to try and dunk on poster's characters is bizarre. RiverleavesElmius , why is it automatic and immediate to turn to just insults?
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Post by pendragon on Feb 10, 2021 8:28:16 GMT
That's explicitly a comment on Cassie's attire, not on Carey Mulligan's looks or beauty. I thought Cassie looked much more pretty in her coffee shop attire than her pickup-bait attire (which looked fake and trashy, by design), so I can see what Harvey meant by that comment. But I agree with Tyler that it was a misguided observation and a poor review in general for several reasons, and highlighted Harvey's misunderstanding of the movie and what it was saying. His review still doesn't comment on Mulligan's looks, let alone be sexist or misogynistic. Come on, that's splitting hairs. It was a dig at her appearance using sexist language. She has a right to be offended even if you don't think it's offensive. This suggests that calling out sexist language in a review is as uncharitable as using sexist language in a review. As I said, it's quite possible that Harvey didn't intend his words to come off like that, but then he gave a response interview which was honestly much worse. The arrogance to think that there couldn't be anything wrong with what he wrote and the insinuations he made towards Mulligan didn't speak well to his character. And this is missing the larger point that I think Mulligan was trying to make about how women are written about in film criticism. She's commented before on terrible and sexist questions from film journalists (often, though not always men). She said she almost didn't say anything here but decided that the more we let comments like this slide, the more accepted it becomes.
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