speeders
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Post by speeders on Jan 13, 2021 21:46:21 GMT
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 14, 2021 6:16:50 GMT
with only 10 house republicans against 197. Not encouraging. Polls are showing very scant support for impeachment from Republicans, the current average being 15%, although who knows if that's even accurate. It's clear most Republicans have moved past this. They don't care that Trump incited a riot because they think the riot was justified, or at least agree that the anger was justified because dems stole the election. There is no bottom once you accept conspiracy theories as reality. Does anyone else see McConnell's senate coalition standing against 85% of GOP voters?? McConnell wants to sever ties but it might be too late for that.
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Post by jimmalone on Jan 14, 2021 8:31:33 GMT
To be honest I was a bit disappointed with only 10 republicans voting for an impeachment. I mean after all what Trump has done, if this, a betrayal of the own country, of the own constitution and of the system of democracy doesn't warrant an impeachment, what does? I know it was tempting for most Republicans to vote "nay" even if they think it was justified, since impeachment would get the necessary majority in the house anyways and so they could vote against it without breaking with (most of) their base. Still it's sad to see that only 10 of 211 republicans (less than 5 percent) had the courage to stand up for democracy and moralic values.
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Post by mhynson27 on Jan 14, 2021 15:06:23 GMT
Keep in mind that I know nothing about my own country's politics let alone another ones, but what is the point of impeaching him now? Isn't he President for like 1 more week?
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Post by Joaquim on Jan 14, 2021 15:35:31 GMT
Keep in mind that I know nothing about my own country's politics let alone another ones, but what is the point of impeaching him now? Isn't he President for like 1 more week? Because they need another vote so they can block him from ever running for office again. Thing is, McConnell said the senate isn’t coming back for session until the 19th which is the day before trump leaves office. This is all just political grandstanding like the whole Russiagate shit or when senate republicans like Cruz act all tough on big tech for the cameras then do nothing
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Jan 14, 2021 15:36:27 GMT
Keep in mind that I know nothing about my own country's politics let alone another ones, but what is the point of impeaching him now? Isn't he President for like 1 more week? He can't run for office again if impeached.
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Post by mhynson27 on Jan 14, 2021 15:49:52 GMT
Thanks guys
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Post by Lord_Buscemi on Jan 14, 2021 15:57:54 GMT
Keep in mind that I know nothing about my own country's politics let alone another ones, but what is the point of impeaching him now? Isn't he President for like 1 more week? That means he can't pardon himself or his cronies, pension is revoked, wouldn't be protected by the secret service post-presidency, can't run for public office again. However, more than all these I think it's important in sending a message. I see a lot of talk that impeachment would martyr him in the eyes of his supporters but so what? What sort of message does inaction send? We can't allow this sort of rhetoric to go unpunished and therefore appeal to similar wannabe-Trump con-artists who might use use it for their own gain in other democracies. The will of the majority being thwarted in favour of raging for the machine and the fragility of democracy will only foment if an example isn't made out of these last 4 years.
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Post by hugobolso on Jan 14, 2021 17:10:33 GMT
Keep in mind that I know nothing about my own country's politics let alone another ones, but what is the point of impeaching him now? Isn't he President for like 1 more week? He can't run for office again if impeached. He will be not impeach. If he is impeached, every politic, that say something stupid in Twitter, TV or in News could be impeached too.- Someone who supports Black matters/ Antifas for example Kamala Harris, tomorrow could be impeached for the exactly the same reasons.- If somoeone of the BLS goes to jail, the Republican Party (and will be) could accuse Kamala Harris of Treason, for supporting riots.- There are dozens of videos, this is just one polite I'm not support Trump on this, but be carful with the domino effect.-
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Post by hugobolso on Jan 14, 2021 17:27:39 GMT
President Biden, visited Jacob Blake family, and because of him there were riots, and people died in consquence, why not to impeach President Biden too? He made the same thing. As a Senator he (implicity or explicty) encourage rioters to protest against President Trump.-
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jan 14, 2021 20:46:42 GMT
President Biden, visited Jacob Blake family, and because of him there were riots, and people died in consquence, why not to impeach President Biden too? He made the same thing. As a Senator he (implicity or explicty) encourage rioters to protest against President Trump.- lmao of all the things you can accuse biden of doing, this is it? anywho yeah impeach everyone from congress and the senate. start over. it's an evil system
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Post by quetee on Jan 14, 2021 21:50:04 GMT
President Biden, visited Jacob Blake family, and because of him there were riots, and people died in consquence, why not to impeach President Biden too? He made the same thing. As a Senator he (implicity or explicty) encourage rioters to protest against President Trump.- How does that even correlate to what's going on here? First of all, he was not a senator when that happened and second of you can come up with any excuse you want but Trump did what he did. Period.
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Post by hugobolso on Jan 14, 2021 22:39:46 GMT
President Biden, visited Jacob Blake family, and because of him there were riots, and people died in consquence, why not to impeach President Biden too? He made the same thing. As a Senator he (implicity or explicty) encourage rioters to protest against President Trump.- How does that even correlate to what's going on here? First of all, he was not a senator when that happened and second of you can come up with any excuse you want but Trump did what he did. Period. OK, But Kamala is.-
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 14, 2021 22:41:09 GMT
This is the poll numbers/reason Republicans so far are not seemingly likely to vote for it in the Senate - but you never know....meanwhile James Comey floated the idea today the Biden may want to pardon Trump (um) which probably caused Ilhan Omar and AOC to faint.... Clearly the Trump "defense" will be that he never uttered the words and rather said people should demonstrate peacefully and patriotically which of course he didn't mean at all.....but that's the defense issue if/when we get to that point...these numbers are somewhat surprising and this was through the 13th.... 91% of Trump supporters in the GOP back his continued contesting of the election, while 46% of those who consider themselves “traditional Republicans” support his challenges and 36% oppose.
96% of Trump supporters say he makes the Republican Party better, while 51% of traditional Republicans agree and 47% disagree.
92% of Trump supporters want to see him run again in 2024, compared to 41% of other Republicans who agree and 58% who disagree.
1% of Trump supporters say he should be immediately be removed from office for “promoting” the unrest, while 24% of traditional Republicans agree. Axios/Ipsos poll:www.newsmax.com/politics/poll-trump-republicans-2024/2021/01/14/id/1005578/
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Post by quetee on Jan 14, 2021 23:31:41 GMT
How does that even correlate to what's going on here? First of all, he was not a senator when that happened and second of you can come up with any excuse you want but Trump did what he did. Period. OK, But Kamala is.- A black woman and?????
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Post by quetee on Jan 14, 2021 23:55:08 GMT
This is the poll numbers/reason Republicans so far are not seemingly likely to vote for it in the Senate - but you never know....meanwhile James Comey floated the idea today the Biden may want to pardon Trump (um) which probably caused Ilhan Omar and AOC to faint.... Clearly the Trump "defense" will be that he never uttered the words and rather said people should demonstrate peacefully and patriotically which of course he didn't mean at all.....but that's the defense issue if/when we get to that point...these numbers are somewhat surprising and this was through the 13th.... 91% of Trump supporters in the GOP back his continued contesting of the election, while 46% of those who consider themselves “traditional Republicans” support his challenges and 36% oppose.
96% of Trump supporters say he makes the Republican Party better, while 51% of traditional Republicans agree and 47% disagree.
92% of Trump supporters want to see him run again in 2024, compared to 41% of other Republicans who agree and 58% who disagree.
1% of Trump supporters say he should be immediately be removed from office for “promoting” the unrest, while 24% of traditional Republicans agree. Axios/Ipsos poll:www.newsmax.com/politics/poll-trump-republicans-2024/2021/01/14/id/1005578/Those are Trump supporters and they need to be deprogrammed and it will not be pretty when they realize that he has been lying to the entire time. These people need to worry about themselves rather than about some POC that they blame for taking their jobs and status in the world.
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Post by hugobolso on Jan 15, 2021 0:32:07 GMT
This is the poll numbers/reason Republicans so far are not seemingly likely to vote for it in the Senate - but you never know....meanwhile James Comey floated the idea today the Biden may want to pardon Trump (um) which probably caused Ilhan Omar and AOC to faint.... Clearly the Trump "defense" will be that he never uttered the words and rather said people should demonstrate peacefully and patriotically which of course he didn't mean at all.....but that's the defense issue if/when we get to that point...these numbers are somewhat surprising and this was through the 13th.... 91% of Trump supporters in the GOP back his continued contesting of the election, while 46% of those who consider themselves “traditional Republicans” support his challenges and 36% oppose.
96% of Trump supporters say he makes the Republican Party better, while 51% of traditional Republicans agree and 47% disagree.
92% of Trump supporters want to see him run again in 2024, compared to 41% of other Republicans who agree and 58% who disagree.
1% of Trump supporters say he should be immediately be removed from office for “promoting” the unrest, while 24% of traditional Republicans agree. Axios/Ipsos poll:www.newsmax.com/politics/poll-trump-republicans-2024/2021/01/14/id/1005578/Those are Trump supporters and they need to be deprogrammed and it will not be pretty when they realize that he has been lying to the entire time. These people need to worry about themselves rather than about some POC that they blame for taking their jobs and status in the world. People aren't machines, so they can't be deprogrammed, is impossible.-
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Post by Lord_Buscemi on Jan 15, 2021 7:04:21 GMT
He can't run for office again if impeached. He will be not impeach. If he is impeached, every politic, that say something stupid in Twitter, TV or in News could be impeached too.- Someone who supports Black matters/ Antifas for example Kamala Harris, tomorrow could be impeached for the exactly the same reasons.- If somoeone of the BLS goes to jail, the Republican Party (and will be) could accuse Kamala Harris of Treason, for supporting riots.- There are dozens of videos, this is just one polite I'm not support Trump on this, but be carful with the domino effect.- I'm so tired of hearing this "argument" so it doesn't even deserve a proper response anymore, it's a such disingenuous false equivalent. If you can't see the difference, you're wilfully ignorant or distorting the narrative to fit your own.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 15, 2021 7:37:16 GMT
peacefully protesting systemic racism & police brutality against black people = / = storming the US Capitol to overturn a democratic election because of conspiracy theories. end of discussion
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Post by hugobolso on Jan 15, 2021 14:47:10 GMT
peacefully protesting systemic racism & police brutality against black people = / = storming the US Capitol to overturn a democratic election because of conspiracy theories. end of discussion Just at least 25 people, only in US, very peacefully protest.- www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acledAny way this isn't about equivalence, this is about to condemn what is wrong, and the riot supporting Trump were wrong, and the riot supporting George Floyd were wrong, there are no excuses, when at least 30 people died in these 2 kind of riots. And I'm not counting the Covid Propagation, that all these riots had.- You can argue that the BLM was in general peaceful, and the others could say exacting the same of Trump supporters riots, but there are at least 30 deaths for those.- You have the right to protest, for what you consider is wrong, but in Covid times isn't the best option.-
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morton
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Post by morton on Jan 15, 2021 14:50:24 GMT
This is the poll numbers/reason Republicans so far are not seemingly likely to vote for it in the Senate - but you never know....meanwhile James Comey floated the idea today the Biden may want to pardon Trump (um) which probably caused Ilhan Omar and AOC to faint.... Clearly the Trump "defense" will be that he never uttered the words and rather said people should demonstrate peacefully and patriotically which of course he didn't mean at all.....but that's the defense issue if/when we get to that point...these numbers are somewhat surprising and this was through the 13th.... 91% of Trump supporters in the GOP back his continued contesting of the election, while 46% of those who consider themselves “traditional Republicans” support his challenges and 36% oppose.
96% of Trump supporters say he makes the Republican Party better, while 51% of traditional Republicans agree and 47% disagree.
92% of Trump supporters want to see him run again in 2024, compared to 41% of other Republicans who agree and 58% who disagree.
1% of Trump supporters say he should be immediately be removed from office for “promoting” the unrest, while 24% of traditional Republicans agree. Axios/Ipsos poll:www.newsmax.com/politics/poll-trump-republicans-2024/2021/01/14/id/1005578/Those are Trump supporters and they need to be deprogrammed and it will not be pretty when they realize that he has been lying to the entire time. These people need to worry about themselves rather than about some POC that they blame for taking their jobs and status in the world. This morning I saw that one shirtless nut is trending because he thinks he should be pardoned because Trump invited him to the Capitol, and I’m guessing that most if not all the other insurrectionists are going to either ask for pardons or use it as a defense that the President invited them. I just wish I could see their faces when they realize he’s always going to choose saving his skin above anyone else’s when he leaves them hanging in the wind. Of course with these brainwashed people, there’s always a good chance they’ll just get even more delusional. “He would never throw us under the bus. They must have got to him and replaced him with someone else.”
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Post by hugobolso on Jan 15, 2021 14:52:56 GMT
Those are Trump supporters and they need to be deprogrammed and it will not be pretty when they realize that he has been lying to the entire time. These people need to worry about themselves rather than about some POC that they blame for taking their jobs and status in the world. This morning I saw that one shirtless nut is trending because he thinks he should be pardoned because Trump invited him to the Capitol, and I’m guessing that most if not all the other insurrectionists are going to either ask for pardons or use it as a defense that the President invited them. I just wish I could see their faces when they realize he’s always going to choose saving his skin above anyone else’s when he leaves them hanging in the wind. Of course with these brainwashed people, there’s always a good chance they’ll just get even more delusional. “He would never throw us under the bus. They must have got to him and replaced him with someone else.” could be pardoned if there isn't a condemn?.-
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Post by Lord_Buscemi on Jan 15, 2021 16:09:27 GMT
peacefully protesting systemic racism & police brutality against black people = / = storming the US Capitol to overturn a democratic election because of conspiracy theories. end of discussion Just at least 25 people, only in US, very peacefully protest.- www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acledAny way this isn't about equivalence, this is about to condemn what is wrong, and the riot supporting Trump were wrong, and the riot supporting George Floyd were wrong, there are no excuses, when at least 30 people died in these 2 kind of riots. And I'm not counting the Covid Propagation, that all these riots had.- You can argue that the BLM was in general peaceful, and the others could say exacting the same of Trump supporters riots, but there are at least 30 deaths for those.- You have the right to protest, for what you consider is wrong, but in Covid times isn't the best option.- Dude, I don't give a shit if they weren't peaceful. I don't even care if they were all horrifically violent because riots are what you use when you're voiceless. People don't need to abide by the conventional political methods of pursuing social change when the system is deliberately rigged against them. The moral equivalence of fighting against decades of consistent police brutality and racial injustice is not compatible with overthrowing the government after a fair election so you can reinstate a billionaire reality tv star for another 4 years of being the most powerful person on the planet. If Biden actually said "burn down police stations", it would be the first smart thing he said in his life but he didn't so pinning the "blame" of this supposed anarchy (which was mostly a reaction to a harsh crackdown on peaceful protests by a militarised police force) on Dems is ridiculous. Dems "incitement" was performative "keep protesting" at most. I don't care about Covid either. Covid is predominately deadly for the elderly with very few exceptions, whereas most of the people protesting last summer were young people. Life goes on after Covid and you're being so disingenuous here pretending you even care about that anyway. This centrist "both sides are wrong" image you're putting on is embarrassing-whataboutism at its worst.
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Post by hugobolso on Jan 15, 2021 17:11:40 GMT
Just at least 25 people, only in US, very peacefully protest.- www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acledAny way this isn't about equivalence, this is about to condemn what is wrong, and the riot supporting Trump were wrong, and the riot supporting George Floyd were wrong, there are no excuses, when at least 30 people died in these 2 kind of riots. And I'm not counting the Covid Propagation, that all these riots had.- You can argue that the BLM was in general peaceful, and the others could say exacting the same of Trump supporters riots, but there are at least 30 deaths for those.- You have the right to protest, for what you consider is wrong, but in Covid times isn't the best option.- Dude, I don't give a shit if they weren't peaceful. I don't even care if they were all horrifically violent because riots are what you use when you're voiceless. People don't need to abide by the conventional political methods of pursuing social change when the system is deliberately rigged against them. The moral equivalence of fighting against decades of consistent police brutality and racial injustice is not compatible with overthrowing the government after a fair election so you can reinstate a billionaire reality tv star for another 4 years of being the most powerful person on the planet. If Biden actually said "burn down police stations", it would be the first smart thing he said in his life but he didn't so pinning the "blame" of this supposed anarchy (which was mostly a reaction to a harsh crackdown on peaceful protests by a militarised police force) on Dems is ridiculous. Dems "incitement" was performative "keep protesting" at most. I don't care about Covid either. Covid is predominately deadly for the elderly with very few exceptions, whereas most of the people protesting last summer were young people. Life goes on after Covid and you're being so disingenuous here pretending you even care about that anyway. This centrist "both sides are wrong" image you're putting on is embarrassing-whataboutism at its worst. First of all the prostest of Black lives Matters, that blame Trump were taken on places where the Democratic Party was on power. Or The Mayor was Democratic, or the Governor was, and usually both were. You cannot complaint the Republican Party or President Trump, for cities, counties, and States ruled by democrats. Not only but also the protest were stupid, because later the same rioters, votes the the same mayors, governors whose policies protest.- Yep the protester were most young people but then they got to their homes where there are old people, or goest to their job school or whatever and there are older people, could be their gradparent, could be the boss, the cafee worker or the cleaning lady,doesn't matters. So not, your point is not just extremely naiv,e but really harming.- And the fair election, well there were prooves that the electoral system failed, just not enough to change the election. Probably Trump was right in that in a couple of states, he was robbed, but the time to proove a masive fraud is too short.- Yep I agree, with Trump, in other thing, I'm against mail votes, and also agree with some Democrats, that the president should be elected in a directly, and not by electoral collage. But this old system works well for the last 250 years. So why we need to change something that works well. Also about the mail votes, rules cannot change after the election. So it was Trump and his party fault to not change that rules in propper time.- I think thta encouroging Trump to his supporters, that actually there was a big chance or reverting the results, was the most stupid and harmful thing he made in his 4 years of Presidency,- I'm not saying that both acts are equal, should all the people should condemn to convert pacific protesters in vandalist and bloody acts.-
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Post by quetee on Jan 15, 2021 19:51:25 GMT
Dude, I don't give a shit if they weren't peaceful. I don't even care if they were all horrifically violent because riots are what you use when you're voiceless. People don't need to abide by the conventional political methods of pursuing social change when the system is deliberately rigged against them. The moral equivalence of fighting against decades of consistent police brutality and racial injustice is not compatible with overthrowing the government after a fair election so you can reinstate a billionaire reality tv star for another 4 years of being the most powerful person on the planet. If Biden actually said "burn down police stations", it would be the first smart thing he said in his life but he didn't so pinning the "blame" of this supposed anarchy (which was mostly a reaction to a harsh crackdown on peaceful protests by a militarised police force) on Dems is ridiculous. Dems "incitement" was performative "keep protesting" at most. I don't care about Covid either. Covid is predominately deadly for the elderly with very few exceptions, whereas most of the people protesting last summer were young people. Life goes on after Covid and you're being so disingenuous here pretending you even care about that anyway. This centrist "both sides are wrong" image you're putting on is embarrassing-whataboutism at its worst. First of all the prostest of Black lives Matters, that blame Trump were taken on places where the Democratic Party was on power. Or The Mayor was Democratic, or the Governor was, and usually both were. You cannot complaint the Republican Party or President Trump, for cities, counties, and States ruled by democrats. Not only but also the protest were stupid, because later the same rioters, votes the the same mayors, governors whose policies protest.- Yep the protester were most young people but then they got to their homes where there are old people, or goest to their job school or whatever and there are older people, could be their gradparent, could be the boss, the cafee worker or the cleaning lady,doesn't matters. So not, your point is not just extremely naiv,e but really harming.- And the fair election, well there were prooves that the electoral system failed, just not enough to change the election. Probably Trump was right in that in a couple of states, he was robbed, but the time to proove a masive fraud is too short.- Yep I agree, with Trump, in other thing, I'm against mail votes, and also agree with some Democrats, that the president should be elected in a directly, and not by electoral collage. But this old system works well for the last 250 years. So why we need to change something that works well. Also about the mail votes, rules cannot change after the election. So it was Trump and his party fault to not change that rules in propper time.- I think thta encouroging Trump to his supporters, that actually there was a big chance or reverting the results, was the most stupid and harmful thing he made in his 4 years of Presidency,- I'm not saying that both acts are equal, should all the people should condemn to convert pacific protesters in vandalist and bloody acts.- Trump is not right about anything. There was no fraud. He is no longer president because he didn't get the votes. Period. The Republicans have lost the popular vote 8 of the 9 last elections so they still wouldn't win. Where was the voter fraud? We have been using mall in ballot system for about what 30 years now and it is a problem now during a pandemic? Ummm... no. People have audited these ballots. There have been studies on election fraud and the reports come to the same conclusion: it is immaterial. I can't believe people think the election was rigged. So let me get this straight: Trump 2016 - If I lose, then it is rigged. He won. Then he creates a committee cause he's pissed off cause he didn't win the popular vote. The commit came to the conclusion... well... you didn't. Trump 2020 - If I lose, then it is rigged. He lost So how can an election be rigged when that is his excuse for everything. The man is a bona fide sore loser and if he doesn't win he blames it on everything under the sun. That's his MO. How can anyone in their right mind with critical thinking skills believe any of his bullshit? It makes no sense. None. I am still waiting for the it was rigged stans to explain to me how in the hell did Mitch and Lindsay win their election or any other Republican on the same ballot as Trump. Cause there is no way in hell someone committing fraud would allow that to even happen. The Republicans need to grow a backbone and stop with the power hungry political theatre. Nobody has the time for this bullshit. It pisses me off that they doubled down on this lie and try to place the blame on black communities as to having the fraud. Really? This is where we are with this... still blaming black people for every little thing. It is exhausting to say the least.
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