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Post by futuretrunks on Nov 27, 2020 1:49:40 GMT
Keanu being no. 4 (ahead of Kidman no less) invalidates the whole list. The guy's a sweetheart, but come on. I disagree. Reeves wouldn't be my no.4 or anywhere near it, but critics lists in part are always about advocacy. Reeves is exactly the type of performer who merits advocacy. Has been iconic in more film roles than most screen actors will ever come close to being, yet still not given much credit for it (in part because his early reputation as a "bad actor" never fully escaped him, even when he was clearly no longer bad). I couldn't fully rate how good an actor Reeves is or isn't, because his alchemy with the camera is fairly unique. He's clearly technically limited, but there's is a comfortability and ease on camera that many more technically talented actors will never have or come close to having. He's incredibly watchable. It's how he has lasted this long. Limited actors have been raised to a pedestal before ( someone like Gary Cooper, a two-time Best Actor winner comes to mind. I will fight to the death to say that Keanu is a better actor than Cooper, who is somehow seen as an acting legend. But to me is a block of wood in almost everything). So yeah, even if I disagree with his placement on the list, because I believe in critical advocacy, I wouldn't say it invalidates the list at all. Reeves is an actor with an iconic body of work whose output and abilities are ripe for constant reassessment. It's actually a very ballsy and bold move to advocate for him to.that extent, because they aren't stupid. They knew exactly how many people would find it questionable. But that is what brave critics do. They advocate for someone or something they believe in. Vertigo was released to mediocre reviews and only became regarded as a masterpiece because later critics wouldn't stop putting it on lists and advocating for it. That's fine, but I don't really believe in advocacy in list-making. I just believe in saying what I think, and only what I think. I like Gosling alot, and think he's a genius actor, but if I'm making a list of the top 100 performances of all time, you best believe Pacino as Michael Corleone will be above every Gosling performance thus far. I don't care if everyone's already seen and loves The Godfather/The Godfather Part II. My putting Gosling in Lars and the Real Girl or Gosling in First Man or whatever (performances I nominate/win respectively for Oscars) over Pacino in those films is an insult to Pacino's achievement, however much internet traffic it generates for me.
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 27, 2020 2:03:00 GMT
I disagree. Reeves wouldn't be my no.4 or anywhere near it, but critics lists in part are always about advocacy. Reeves is exactly the type of performer who merits advocacy. Has been iconic in more film roles than most screen actors will ever come close to being, yet still not given much credit for it (in part because his early reputation as a "bad actor" never fully escaped him, even when he was clearly no longer bad). I couldn't fully rate how good an actor Reeves is or isn't, because his alchemy with the camera is fairly unique. He's clearly technically limited, but there's is a comfortability and ease on camera that many more technically talented actors will never have or come close to having. He's incredibly watchable. It's how he has lasted this long. Limited actors have been raised to a pedestal before ( someone like Gary Cooper, a two-time Best Actor winner comes to mind. I will fight to the death to say that Keanu is a better actor than Cooper, who is somehow seen as an acting legend. But to me is a block of wood in almost everything). So yeah, even if I disagree with his placement on the list, because I believe in critical advocacy, I wouldn't say it invalidates the list at all. Reeves is an actor with an iconic body of work whose output and abilities are ripe for constant reassessment. It's actually a very ballsy and bold move to advocate for him to.that extent, because they aren't stupid. They knew exactly how many people would find it questionable. But that is what brave critics do. They advocate for someone or something they believe in. Vertigo was released to mediocre reviews and only became regarded as a masterpiece because later critics wouldn't stop putting it on lists and advocating for it. That's fine, but I don't really believe in advocacy in list-making. I just believe in saying what I think, and only what I think. I like Gosling alot, and think he's a genius actor, but if I'm making a list of the top 100 performances of all time, you best believe Pacino as Michael Corleone will be above every Gosling performance thus far. I don't care if everyone's already seen and loves The Godfather/The Godfather Part II. My putting Gosling in Lars and the Real Girl or Gosling in First Man or whatever (performances I nominate/win respectively for Oscars) over Pacino in those films is an insult to Pacino's achievement, however much internet traffic it generates for me. Like I said, I believe advocacy list-making has always been essential in film criticism. It's one of the foundational elements of how the auteur theory came to prominence. Critics at places like Cahiers Du Cinema would look at the work of wildly undervalued and underrated filmmakers, and not only do reappraisals, but lists putting their movies in their top 10's. That allowed for example, someone like Douglas Sirk to go from someone considered to churn out crappy big screen Hollywood soap operas, to be seen as a masterful director who was a visual master with a distinct style and subtext in his storytelling. Without advocacy in criticism, we'd have lost out on an enormous amount of great work and talent. It would hurt cinephiles in particular a great deal.
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 27, 2020 8:07:15 GMT
Well, as has been said, this list is certainly travelling around the world and generating intense debate and discussion . Interesting take from Donald Clarke of the Irish Times. Thinks the list is everything these kind of lists should be..."eccentric, awkward and surprising". Obviously glad that Sairose Ronan made it in (as well as Daniel Day-Lewis, who holds an Irish passport). See's Denzel as a worthy and pretty uncontroversial choice for the top spot. Actually thinks Keanu Reeves isn't a bad choice, acknowledging his limited range, but also comparing him to an icon like John Wayne, who like Reeves, is perfect in the appropriate role (see, critical advocacy works kiddies! Keanu coming for that Wayne/Bogart limited, but well regarded movie icon spot ) . Notes Meryl Streep as the one omission he'd consider glaring. www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/saoirse-ronan-and-daniel-day-lewis-on-greatest-21st-century-actors-list-1.4420369
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Post by fiosnasiob on Nov 27, 2020 18:00:59 GMT
Well, as has been said, this list is certainly travelling around the world and generating intense debate and discussion . Interesting take from Donald Clarke of the Irish Times. Thinks the list is everything these kind of lists should be..."eccentric, awkward and surprising". Obviously glad that Sairose Ronan made it in (as well as Daniel Day-Lewis, who holds an Irish passport). See's Denzel as a worthy and pretty uncontroversial choice for the top spot. Actually thinks Keanu Reeves isn't a bad choice, acknowledging his limited range, but also comparing him to an icon like John Wayne, who like Reeves, is perfect in the appropriate role (see, critical advocacy works kiddies! Keanu coming for that Wayne/Bogart limited, but well regarded movie icon spot ) . Notes Meryl Streep as the one omission he'd consider glaring. www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/saoirse-ronan-and-daniel-day-lewis-on-greatest-21st-century-actors-list-1.4420369La mama Meryl would have make my list (mostly for her amazing 00's) but I can understand why someone would not want to include her in the sense that she can be seen as more of a representation of the 20th century (her prime being more the late 70's/80's/90's) than the 21st century. To me her best works this century (Prada, Adaptation...) would hardly makes my top 5 of her overall works and a good % of her 10's oscars nominations could/should have went to someone else. But when you decide to include Deneuve... Speaking about Irish, has anybody, anywhere, even mentioned Julianne Moore ? It seems like the second the brain got the information, it decided to delete it. "She's not a bad choice, she isn't the most amazing one, it's okay, whatever, let's move on to the next one." Pardon my very bad joke with the Irish-Redhead thing...she has Celtic roots tho.
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jason
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Post by jason on Nov 27, 2020 18:38:48 GMT
obviously this list is a joke
streep, pitt, blanchett, dicaprio, adams, chastain should be there, the presence of some actors, for example reeves, jordan, mccarthy is totally unjustified
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 27, 2020 18:52:25 GMT
Well, as has been said, this list is certainly travelling around the world and generating intense debate and discussion . Interesting take from Donald Clarke of the Irish Times. Thinks the list is everything these kind of lists should be..."eccentric, awkward and surprising". Obviously glad that Sairose Ronan made it in (as well as Daniel Day-Lewis, who holds an Irish passport). See's Denzel as a worthy and pretty uncontroversial choice for the top spot. Actually thinks Keanu Reeves isn't a bad choice, acknowledging his limited range, but also comparing him to an icon like John Wayne, who like Reeves, is perfect in the appropriate role (see, critical advocacy works kiddies! Keanu coming for that Wayne/Bogart limited, but well regarded movie icon spot ) . Notes Meryl Streep as the one omission he'd consider glaring. www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/saoirse-ronan-and-daniel-day-lewis-on-greatest-21st-century-actors-list-1.4420369La mama Meryl would have make my list (mostly for her amazing 00's) but I can understand why someone would not want to include her in the sense that she can be seen as more of a representation of the 20th century (her prime being more the late 70's/80's/90's) than the 21st century. To me her best works this century (Prada, Adaptation...) would hardly makes my top 5 of her overall works and a good % of her 10's oscars nominations could/should have went to someone else. But when you decide to include Deneuve... Speaking about Irish, has anybody, anywhere, even mentioned Julianne Moore ? It seems like the second the brain got the information, it decided to delete it. "She's not a bad choice, she isn't the most amazing one, it's okay, whatever, let's move on to the next one." Pardon my very bad joke with the Irish-Redhead thing...she has Celtic roots tho. Yeah, I would have been fine with Streep's inclusion (her 00's work as you say, was very strong), but I'd agree that her work has mostly been quite overrated in the 2010's, and again, she is very over-nominated. I consider Kidman to be the greatest English speaking language actress of this century (and working), and was happy her placement and inclusion reflected that. And again, I'm glad the list found a place for Tilda Swinton, whom I regard as probably the second best actress working today in the English language behind Kidman. Denueve was an interesting choice, and maybe equivalent to Streep as a venerable institution. She is still held in esteem for her work in this century in France. Interesting to note she's been nominated for almost as many Ceasar Awards (5) this century as Huppert (7) who is probably more seen as still being closer to her peak.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 27, 2020 19:15:36 GMT
obviously this list is a joke streep, pitt, blanchett, dicaprio, adams, chastain should be there, the presence of some actors, for example reeves, jordan, mccarthy is totally unjustified They even messed it up aside from the English speaking actors: They included 2 French females - one of which is a real stretch Deneuve - I loooooooooooooooove her - but who is not remotely close to Adèle Haenel in the 2000s: she has like 7 Cesar nominations in 13 years ........and edgier films, far more risk-taking and daring in this decade which makes sense - since Deneuve is 77 years old now. Not only is the exclusion of Haenel for Deneuve not justified in any way logically........the inclusion of Deneuve over Karin Viard - who often plays Deneuve's same type of roles even and does it better nowadays too is baffling........and Viard smokes her in 2000s awards as well (including 10 Cesar nominations in just the 2000s). The list should have just been called "25 Great Actors We Like" it's the "est" at the end of Great that makes people roll their eyes......
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Post by fiosnasiob on Nov 27, 2020 19:50:48 GMT
La mama Meryl would have make my list (mostly for her amazing 00's) but I can understand why someone would not want to include her in the sense that she can be seen as more of a representation of the 20th century (her prime being more the late 70's/80's/90's) than the 21st century. To me her best works this century (Prada, Adaptation...) would hardly makes my top 5 of her overall works and a good % of her 10's oscars nominations could/should have went to someone else. But when you decide to include Deneuve... Speaking about Irish, has anybody, anywhere, even mentioned Julianne Moore ? It seems like the second the brain got the information, it decided to delete it. "She's not a bad choice, she isn't the most amazing one, it's okay, whatever, let's move on to the next one." Pardon my very bad joke with the Irish-Redhead thing...she has Celtic roots tho. Yeah, I would have been fine with Streep's inclusion (her 00's work as you say, was very strong), but I'd agree that her work has mostly been quite overrated in the 2010's, and again, she is very over-nominated. I consider Kidman to be the greatest English speaking language actress of this century (and working), and was happy her placement and inclusion reflected that. And again, I'm glad the list found a place for Tilda Swinton, whom I regard as probably the second best actress working today in the English language behind Kidman. Denueve was an interesting choice, and maybe equivalent to Streep as a venerable institution. She is still held in esteem for her work in this century in France. Interesting to note she's been nominated for almost as many Ceasar Awards (5) this century as Huppert (7) who is probably more seen as still being closer to her peak. Tilda is definitely an inspiring choice, she's flout out amazing. Her performance in Julia in particular, ranks high on my list of the best performance of this century. I don't know how a screen collaboration with the GOAT Zel would looks like but I would love to see it.
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 27, 2020 21:03:00 GMT
Yeah, I would have been fine with Streep's inclusion (her 00's work as you say, was very strong), but I'd agree that her work has mostly been quite overrated in the 2010's, and again, she is very over-nominated. I consider Kidman to be the greatest English speaking language actress of this century (and working), and was happy her placement and inclusion reflected that. And again, I'm glad the list found a place for Tilda Swinton, whom I regard as probably the second best actress working today in the English language behind Kidman. Denueve was an interesting choice, and maybe equivalent to Streep as a venerable institution. She is still held in esteem for her work in this century in France. Interesting to note she's been nominated for almost as many Ceasar Awards (5) this century as Huppert (7) who is probably more seen as still being closer to her peak. Tilda is definitely an inspiring choice, she's flout out amazing. Her performance in Julia in particular, ranks high on my list of the best performance of this century. I don't know how a screen collaboration with the GOAT Zel would looks like but I would love to see it. Well Swinton and GOAT Zel could have already happened if he didn't turn down Michael Clayton, so it's fairly easy for me to imagine. Plus, she's worked with the Coens on multiple occasions , and now Denzel is in the Coen orbit (at least Joel's) with The Tragedy Of Macbeth, I can see them potentially being brought together on a Coen project. Honestly, if Lady Macbeth wasn't already a role earmarked for Frances McDormand (she was never giving that to anyone else with her husband directing and having played it on stage), Swinton would have been near perfect casting as Lady Macbeth.
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Post by Joaquim on Nov 28, 2020 0:56:20 GMT
Keanu absolutely deserves to be #4. His performance in knock knock is one of the best ever
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 28, 2020 18:34:13 GMT
Really nice NYT write up about Nicole Kidman, whom the list rated as the greatest actress of the 21st century working primarily in the English language:
Artist, princess, writer, muse — Nicole Kidman has played them all, with short hair and long, a prodigious artificial schnoz and a fantastically jutting chin. She can smile like the sun and weep with enough tears that you want to hand her a box of tissues. In mainstream cinema, realism is an actor’s coin in trade, an aesthetic choice that helps turn artifice into something like life. For Kidman, a miniaturist with a lapidary touch, creating that realism sometimes involves obscuring the beauty (for the role, not awards) that has long defined her. It also means consistently playing with femininity.
Kidman entered the 21st century at the height of her stardom with “Moulin Rouge!” (2001). This was followed by a handful of other high-profile vehicles, most notably “The Hours” (2002), in which she played Virginia Woolf (cue the schnoz) and snared her an Oscar. It was a polite yawn of a movie that Kidman followed by starring in Lars von Trier’s “Dogville” (2004), a calculatingly abrasive Brechtian exercise in which her character, after being abused, picks up a gun and helps destroy a town. Kidman seemed to really enjoy that bit.
She’s made more than 40 movies since, some memorable and a number that are best forgotten. Like that of other actresses, Kidman’s celebrity has at times outstripped her bankability, creating a fame that has less to do with the box office and more to do with a starry persona sustained by red-carpet mileage and a glut of fashion-magazine covers. Some years, the movies came and went almost without notice. Still, Kidman kept steadily working and continued elevating negligible material, pushing herself even when the movies didn’t. She has also played a whole lot of mothers, a necessary survival strategy in a world as creatively unimaginative as the movie industry.
One pleasure of a virtuosic performer is watching them rise above their material. Kidman has done so repeatedly, including in “Birth” (2004), in which she plays a widow who comes to believe that a 10-year-old boy is the reincarnation of her dead husband. It’s pretentious twaddle that Kidman graces with delicacy and pinpricks of emotion. She’s flat-out glorious in “The Paperboy” (2012), a delectably vulgar whatsit in which she outshines a showboating male cohort, alternately urinating on Zac Efron and tearing her pantyhose in an orgiastic frenzy over John Cusack.
More recently, Kidman starred in “Destroyer” (2018), a harsh thriller from Karyn Kusama about a detective’s long downward spiral. Kidman goes big and brutal — punching and running and gunning and drinking to wild excess — to play a middle-aged ruin whose terrible choices are etched in every crease and blotch in her hard face. The movie flopped, perhaps because it was too ugly for today’s audiences or maybe it all seemed too down-market for one of Vogue magazine’s favorite cover girls. But Kidman is brilliant, cold, raw and true. Even with her face obscured almost beyond recognition, she remains undeniable. You can’t take your eyes off her. You never can.
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Nov 28, 2020 20:52:48 GMT
Just went through and read the write-ups for all 25 entries on their list. It’s a great piece of writing, and even though there are obviously disagreements with their choices, I think Dargis and Scott did a great job emphasizing what it is about these performers, their skill sets, screen presences, and intangibles that make their acting craft so watchable to them that they seek out. Also the graphical design/aesthetic with the actors’ pictures from different films for this list was awesome. You can tell they put some time into this..and it’s showing this list being discussed in different countries.
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 29, 2020 7:29:17 GMT
Isabelle Huppert posted on Instagram thanking the New York Times for putting her at no.2 on their Greatest Actors of the 21st Century list. Notable actors like Jessica Chastain in her comments congratulating her and saying she is the best. http://instagram.com/p/CIFvMrFD-yZ
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Nov 29, 2020 15:24:04 GMT
Isabelle Huppert posted on Instagram thanking the New York Times for putting her at no.2 on their Greatest Actors of the 21st Century list. Notable actors like Jessica Chastain in her comments congratulating her and saying she is the best. http://instagr.am/p/CIFvMrFD-yZ As you said, looks like a lot of people in the industry paid attention to this list. I wonder if some of the reps for high profile actors/actresses that notably didn’t make the list contacted Scott/Dargis and said “hey, what about my client?”
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Post by franklin on Nov 29, 2020 15:51:29 GMT
Saoirse Ronan at n.10 is laughable. I mean, she is clearly talented but, tenth greatest actress of the century??? Come on, despite notices from some industry folks, no one will ever take this list seriously.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 29, 2020 16:15:11 GMT
Saoirse Ronan at n.10 is laughable. I mean, she is clearly talented but, tenth greatest actress of the century??? Come on, despite notices from some industry folks, no one will ever take this list seriously.The people who have made this thread get up to 4 pages already (it'll get to 20 by the time they're done sucking its teat.......just you watch ) and take this poll seriously are just fanboy-ing it, which is fine I fanboy it too sometimes (see that Corleone Coda thread for one thing and if it's good I won't shut up about that movie ) but this is what most say about the poll - not just most of MAR .........but normal people. Shrug. "There’s no DiCaprio, Streep, Pitt, etc — what a God-almighty AWFUL list..............A.O. and Manohla apparently picked the cream of the crop of acting via a woke checklist perspective. They wanted to be as inclusive as possible because their Times masters are constantly watching over their backs 24/7, they have to appease, no, lick the derrieres, of the progressive-left editors, otherwise, they can be in big trouble." www.worldofreel.com/blog/2020/11/e2gq9traia4tdhgxpf2rdmk55axw5z
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 29, 2020 16:19:56 GMT
Isabelle Huppert posted on Instagram thanking the New York Times for putting her at no.2 on their Greatest Actors of the 21st Century list. Notable actors like Jessica Chastain in her comments congratulating her and saying she is the best. http://instagr.am/p/CIFvMrFD-yZ As you said, looks like a lot of people in the industry paid attention to this list. I wonder if some of the reps for high profile actors/actresses that notably didn’t make the list contacted Scott/Dargis and said “hey, what about my client?” Of course people in the industry are paying attention to the list (and many are clearly taking it very seriously, just as many are free to dismiss it. Like pretty much anything). It's the New York Times. You think Isabelle Huppert would have bothered responding to World Of Reel (whatever that is ) if they called her the 2nd Greatest Actor of The Century ? She ain't got time for that shit.LOL! Every news agency covering or reporting on the list is calling it prestigious. Whether you agree with it or not, that is the power of the NYT. It is what it is.
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Nov 29, 2020 16:55:53 GMT
Saoirse Ronan at n.10 is laughable. I mean, she is clearly talented but, tenth greatest actress of the century??? Come on, despite notices from some industry folks, no one will ever take this list seriously.The people who have made this thread get up to 4 pages already (it'll get to 20 by the time they're done sucking its teat.......just you watch ) and take this poll seriously are just fanboy-ing it, which is fine I fanboy it too sometimes (see that Corleone Coda thread for one thing and if it's good I won't shut up about that movie ) but this is what most say about the poll - not just most of MAR .........but normal people. Shrug. "There’s no DiCaprio, Streep, Pitt, etc — what a God-almighty AWFUL list..............A.O. and Manohla apparently picked the cream of the crop of acting via a woke checklist perspective. They wanted to be as inclusive as possible because their Times masters are constantly watching over their backs 24/7, they have to appease, no, lick the derrieres, of the progressive-left editors, otherwise, they can be in big trouble." www.worldofreel.com/blog/2020/11/e2gq9traia4tdhgxpf2rdmk55axw5zPacinoyes, when are we getting another MAR GOAT Actor poll?
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Post by countjohn on Nov 29, 2020 17:20:19 GMT
Saoirse Ronan at n.10 is laughable. I mean, she is clearly talented but, tenth greatest actress of the century??? Come on, despite notices from some industry folks, no one will ever take this list seriously. Saoirse is one of the ones I don't have a problem with. Atonement is an all time great performance and Brooklyn is probably a top ten lead actress performance of the last 20 years. Now, there are people behind her or not on the list who should be ahead of her like Streep and Blanchett but lower end of the top ten is fine as a placement for her in general.
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Post by countjohn on Nov 29, 2020 17:23:27 GMT
Also, I agree that this being the NYT resulted in the list being taken more seriously, hence my harsher criticism of it. If it had just been some blog with a wonky list I probably wouldn't have even commented. This is the kind of thing you can cite as evidence of film criticism deteriorating.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 29, 2020 17:27:48 GMT
The people who have made this thread get up to 4 pages already (it'll get to 20 by the time they're done sucking its teat.......just you watch ) and take this poll seriously are just fanboy-ing it, which is fine I fanboy it too sometimes (see that Corleone Coda thread for one thing and if it's good I won't shut up about that movie ) but this is what most say about the poll - not just most of MAR .........but normal people. Shrug. "There’s no DiCaprio, Streep, Pitt, etc — what a God-almighty AWFUL list..............A.O. and Manohla apparently picked the cream of the crop of acting via a woke checklist perspective. They wanted to be as inclusive as possible because their Times masters are constantly watching over their backs 24/7, they have to appease, no, lick the derrieres, of the progressive-left editors, otherwise, they can be in big trouble." www.worldofreel.com/blog/2020/11/e2gq9traia4tdhgxpf2rdmk55axw5z Pacinoyes, when are we getting another MAR GOAT Actor poll?You can do it right now if you would like (?) - check with an admin? I know they love hearing from you 3 guys specifically I didn't do the last one....................that was our main man Johnny Hellzapoppin (legend).
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Post by countjohn on Nov 29, 2020 17:38:11 GMT
I disagree. Reeves wouldn't be my no.4 or anywhere near it, but critics lists in part are always about advocacy. Reeves is exactly the type of performer who merits advocacy. Has been iconic in more film roles than most screen actors will ever come close to being, yet still not given much credit for it (in part because his early reputation as a "bad actor" never fully escaped him, even when he was clearly no longer bad). I couldn't fully rate how good an actor Reeves is or isn't, because his alchemy with the camera is fairly unique. He's clearly technically limited, but there's is a comfortability and ease on camera that many more technically talented actors will never have or come close to having. He's incredibly watchable. It's how he has lasted this long. Limited actors have been raised to a pedestal before ( someone like Gary Cooper, a two-time Best Actor winner comes to mind. I will fight to the death to say that Keanu is a better actor than Cooper, who is somehow seen as an acting legend. But to me is a block of wood in almost everything). So yeah, even if I disagree with his placement on the list, because I believe in critical advocacy, I wouldn't say it invalidates the list at all. Reeves is an actor with an iconic body of work whose output and abilities are ripe for constant reassessment. It's actually a very ballsy and bold move to advocate for him to.that extent, because they aren't stupid. They knew exactly how many people would find it questionable. But that is what brave critics do. They advocate for someone or something they believe in. Vertigo was released to mediocre reviews and only became regarded as a masterpiece because later critics wouldn't stop putting it on lists and advocating for it. That's fine, but I don't really believe in advocacy in list-making. I just believe in saying what I think, and only what I think. I like Gosling alot, and think he's a genius actor, but if I'm making a list of the top 100 performances of all time, you best believe Pacino as Michael Corleone will be above every Gosling performance thus far. I don't care if everyone's already seen and loves The Godfather/The Godfather Part II. My putting Gosling in Lars and the Real Girl or Gosling in First Man or whatever (performances I nominate/win respectively for Oscars) over Pacino in those films is an insult to Pacino's achievement, however much internet traffic it generates for me. To me the first thing for any critic or pundit is being honest with your audience. It's more important than writing ability or even your knowledge of whatever subject matter you're commenting on. I just don't see the value of criticism otherwise. I have obscure movies I'd rate very highly on all time lists, but that's because I genuinely like them that much. I think that was also the case in the Vertigo and Douglas Sirk examples as well. They weren't championed just for the sake of being contrarian. The issue here is that I seriously doubt A.O. Scott really thinks Keanu and McCarthy have been better actors over the past 20 years than Streep or Blanchett, to name a couple of many. They wanted a list they knew would be popular on the internet and generate clicks. Pandering to your audience defeats the purpose of criticism. Edit- Another thing here is that even if you're going to take an advocacy perspective, a lot of these people don't even need it. Keanu, McCarthy, and MBJ's movies make far more money and are far more widely seen than most the people we're complaining about being left off. That's why I said this has more to do with pandering. It's telling your audience the greatness of things they've already seen and liked to win their approval. As I noted before, that wasn't what my early experiences with film criticism were and it was for the better since it resulted in me watching things I never would have watched otherwise.
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Nov 29, 2020 17:38:56 GMT
Pacinoyes, when are we getting another MAR GOAT Actor poll? You can do it right now if you would like (?) - check with an admin? I know they love hearing from you 3 guys specifically I didn't do the last one....................that was our main man Johnny Hellzapoppin (legend). I’ve never contacted an admin during my time here, but I’ll be sure to keep that in mind. Anyway, I hope you continue to enjoy this thread..you being a Denzel fan/expert and all.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 29, 2020 17:56:52 GMT
You can do it right now if you would like (?) - check with an admin? I know they love hearing from you 3 guys specifically I didn't do the last one....................that was our main man Johnny Hellzapoppin (legend). I’ve never contacted an admin during my time here, but I’ll be sure to keep that in mind. Anyway, I hope you continue to enjoy this thread..you being a Denzel fan/expert and all.You misunderstood the joke. I just meant "you 3 guys" who coordinated (somewhat poorly) on the last poll - as in the "3 number 1 votes" which enabled your favorite film actor to get all the way to .......... the top 5 ...........um.........number 13. Thanks for acknowledging that I am THE Denzel expert on this board who has seen him the most (all filmed work) and on stage.......unless that was sarcasm ............ which if it was ..............just refer to my Jay Z lyric quote under my avatar. "You don't want it with 'Hov........." do you?
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sirchuck23
Based
Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 4,772
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Post by sirchuck23 on Nov 29, 2020 18:05:29 GMT
I’ve never contacted an admin during my time here, but I’ll be sure to keep that in mind. Anyway, I hope you continue to enjoy this thread..you being a Denzel fan/expert and all. You misunderstood the joke. I just meant "you 3 guys" who coordinated (somewhat poorly) on the last poll - as in the "3 number 1 votes" which enabled your favorite film actor to get all the way to .......... the top 5 ...........um.........number 13. Thanks for acknowledging that I am THE Denzel expert on this board who has seen him the most (all filmed work) and on stage.......unless that was sarcasm ............ which if it was ..............just refer to my Jay Z lyric quote under my avatar. "You don't want it with 'Hov........." do you? It’s all good..don’t feel like getting into it with Hov right now. I’m over here partying..King James style...
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