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Post by therealcomicman117 on Nov 9, 2020 16:29:57 GMT
My hot take: Comedy did more to harm to Robert DeNiro's career and reputation than any other genre. He can do it to a degree, but he severely overestimated his capability in it. To the point that younger people not fully familar with his best work see this old man mugging it up in things like Dirty Grandpa, Grudge Match and The War On Grandpa and wonder how this basic dude was ever considered one of the greatest actors of all time. He should have picked his spots and done comedy sparingly. A lot of his comedy work is so one-note, self-parodying and repetitive that it's easy to know what he'll do and very easy to give it a miss. Quantity and quality are not the same thing. I recall reading (and agreeing with) an interview Bruno Ganz gave in the mid-2000's where he partially/mostly blamed DeNiro's shift to comedy for his severe decline as an actor: emanuellevy.com/interviews/bruno-ganz-intimate-talk-8/I really couldn't agree more. It was cool when he did occasional comedies in the 80s and 90s like Midnight Run and Dog and Glory because they were fun diversions from his regular work as an actor, but the one two success punch of Analyze This, and Meet The Parents did more bad for his career as an actor in retrospect. Now whenever I see the trailer for a Robert De Niro comedy I like to classify it under the "embarrassing DeNiro film category", because it genuinely leaves me looking bewildered. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 9, 2020 17:21:53 GMT
I really couldn't agree more. It was cool when he did occasional comedies in the 80s and 90s like Midnight Run and Dog and Glory because they were fun diversions from his regular work as an actor, but the one two success punch of Analyze This, and Meet The Parents did more bad for his career as an actor in retrospect. Now whenever I see the trailer for a Robert De Niro comedy I like to classify it under the "embarrassing DeNiro film category", because it genuinely leaves me looking bewildered.I strongly disagree with this in one crucial way : This is, while on the surface a sort of truth and I get it - it is also wildly off the larger idea in the thread/poll topic: Which was that Marlon Brando got a free pass for not doing comedy noticeably well..........but De Niro not only doesn't get a pass for it - he beats most all dramatic actors at doing it with success.........he has multiple Golden Globe nods for it..........he has wildly lauded drama performances that include it ( King of Comedy) ............he starred in the highest box-office R rated comedy ever at one time .......his comedy within drama is always lauded - heck just for Scorsese films alone it would be off the charts. None of the (fine) actors mentioned in the OP can touch his successes in this genre, in any way.......( Brando, DDL, Washington, Duvall) or the ones mentioned later ( Clift etc) and all of them EXCEPT Brando get restrained by their failure (relative) in the genre........yet we are here equating the failures of De Niro more than his huge successes - it doesn't work that way at this level at all........  Robert De Niro's "stature" is not actually lessened by his bad comedies - he is either the GOAT or very very close to being the GOAT ........his successes in the genre are too big to be judged by the failures in the way you cynics are doing it............. It's like judging Dustin Hoffman for Ishtar when he's got Tootsie and The Graduate in his back pocket, yanno? MAR does this all the time - we take a surface truth and then spin it too far outward ........and that goes for Bruno Ganz too I'm afraid as well...... |
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Nov 9, 2020 19:01:42 GMT
I really couldn't agree more. It was cool when he did occasional comedies in the 80s and 90s like Midnight Run and Dog and Glory because they were fun diversions from his regular work as an actor, but the one two success punch of Analyze This, and Meet The Parents did more bad for his career as an actor in retrospect. Now whenever I see the trailer for a Robert De Niro comedy I like to classify it under the "embarrassing DeNiro film category", because it genuinely leaves me looking bewildered.I strongly disagree with this in one crucial way : This is, while on the surface a sort of truth and I get it - it is also wildly off the larger idea in the thread/poll topic: Which was that Marlon Brando got a free pass for not doing comedy noticeably well..........but De Niro not only doesn't get a pass for it - he beats most all dramatic actors at doing it with success.........he has multiple Golden Globe nods for it..........he has wildly lauded drama performances that include it ( King of Comedy) ............he starred in the highest box-office R rated comedy ever at one time .......his comedy within drama is always lauded - heck just for Scorsese films alone it would be off the charts. None of the (fine) actors mentioned in the OP can touch his successes in this genre, in any way.......( Brando, DDL, Washington, Duvall) or the ones mentioned later ( Clift etc) and all of them EXCEPT Brando get restrained by their failure (relative) in the genre........yet we are here equating the failures of De Niro more than his huge successes - it doesn't work that way at this level at all........ Robert De Niro's "stature" is not actually lessened by his bad comedies - he is either the GOAT or very very close to being the GOAT ........his successes in the genre are too big to be judged by the failures in the way you cynics are doing it............. It's like judging Dustin Hoffman for Ishtar when he's got Tootsie and The Graduate in his back pocket, yanno? MAR does this all the time - we take a surface truth and then spin it too far outward ........and that goes for Bruno Ganz too I'm afraid as well...... Oh I don't think of DeNiro as being less of an actor because he does all those lowbrow comedies, (he still has two decades plus of consistently great work), or that Brando didn't have issues with comedies, my issue is with the quantity vs quality. I understand that there aren't great roles for a lot of actors over 60, but De Niro could have been more selective with the projects he's chosen over the last decade, instead it feels like he's doing these movies almost exclusively to get funding for the Tribecca Film Festival at this point, and that's not great. Look at Jack Nicholson's career in comparison, he was very much still on top form as far as being a star in the 2000s, and he didn't need to embarrass himself in a lot of lowbrow stupid comedies, because he was more selective with his roles, and it led him to the greatest run of his career as far an actual box office star was concerned, and then he quietly retired after 2010. DeNiro could have done the same thing, but instead it felt like he couldn't say no. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 9, 2020 19:21:09 GMT
I strongly disagree with this in one crucial way : This is, while on the surface a sort of truth and I get it - it is also wildly off the larger idea in the thread/poll topic: Which was that Marlon Brando got a free pass for not doing comedy noticeably well..........but De Niro not only doesn't get a pass for it - he beats most all dramatic actors at doing it with success.........he has multiple Golden Globe nods for it..........he has wildly lauded drama performances that include it ( King of Comedy) ............he starred in the highest box-office R rated comedy ever at one time .......his comedy within drama is always lauded - heck just for Scorsese films alone it would be off the charts. None of the (fine) actors mentioned in the OP can touch his successes in this genre, in any way.......( Brando, DDL, Washington, Duvall) or the ones mentioned later ( Clift etc) and all of them EXCEPT Brando get restrained by their failure (relative) in the genre........yet we are here equating the failures of De Niro more than his huge successes - it doesn't work that way at this level at all........ Robert De Niro's "stature" is not actually lessened by his bad comedies - he is either the GOAT or very very close to being the GOAT ........his successes in the genre are too big to be judged by the failures in the way you cynics are doing it............. It's like judging Dustin Hoffman for Ishtar when he's got Tootsie and The Graduate in his back pocket, yanno? MAR does this all the time - we take a surface truth and then spin it too far outward ........and that goes for Bruno Ganz too I'm afraid as well...... Oh I don't think of DeNiro as being less of an actor because he does all those lowbrow comedies, (he still has two decades plus of consistently great work), or that Brando didn't have issues with comedies, my issue is with the quantity vs quality. I understand that there aren't great roles for a lot of actors over 60, but De Niro could have been more selective with the projects he's chosen over the last decade, instead it feels like he's doing these movies almost exclusively to get funding for the Tribecca Film Festival at this point, and that's not great. Look at Jack Nicholson's career in comparison, he was very much still on top form as far as being a star in the 2000s, and he didn't need to embarrass himself in a lot of lowbrow stupid comedies, because he was more selective with his roles, and it led him to the greatest run of his career as far an actual box office star was concerned, and then he quietly retired after 2010. DeNiro could have done the same thing, but instead it felt like he couldn't say no. Yeah, a lot of people think less of DeNiro, not just because he's done lowbrow comedies, but because his career, whether comedy or drama, has been a crushing disappointment to many people for the last 25 years. To me, he was almost a different actor in the first 25 years.I respect what he's achieved and he is an all-time great (mainly for the first half of his career), but a lot of people fell off the "DeNiro is GOAT" bandwagon a long time ago, and that's mostly his fault. You can't be so prolific and mediocre for so long as he has, and not believe it won't affect how many people rate you. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 9, 2020 19:22:10 GMT
therealcomicman117 - Yes, I'd agree on Nicholson who also had uncanny luck a bit in selecting comedy too- ie he did "Man Trouble" which was one of the few times he didn't seem like a "star" or "special" at all and then he worked away from comedy in other genres before circling back to it and he got an Oscar ~5 years later in a romantic comedy.......he was insanely shrewd in how he managed his career. Most actors start to feel "they'll never get another chance" I think....not only was Nicholson more selective......he was almost remarkably patient about it too.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Nov 9, 2020 19:34:24 GMT
therealcomicman117 - Yes, I'd agree on Nicholson who also had uncanny luck a bit in selecting comedy too- ie he did "Man Trouble" which was one of the few times he didn't seem like a "star" or "special" at all and then he worked away from comedy in other genres before circling back to it and he got an Oscar ~5 years later in a romantic comedy.......he was insanely shrewd in how he managed his career. Most actors start to feel "they'll never get another chance" I think....not only was Nicholson more selective......he was almost remarkably patient about it too. Nicholson is basically the long career that most aspiring actors should ascribe by. He had his ups and downs to be sure, and he did sort of border on parody at points, but he managed to be really smart about his career decisions in the long run. If not for the forgotten megabomb How Do You Know, which he only did as a favor to Brooks, his career actually would have ended on a sound note. |
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Nov 9, 2020 19:38:42 GMT
Oh I don't think of DeNiro as being less of an actor because he does all those lowbrow comedies, (he still has two decades plus of consistently great work), or that Brando didn't have issues with comedies, my issue is with the quantity vs quality. I understand that there aren't great roles for a lot of actors over 60, but De Niro could have been more selective with the projects he's chosen over the last decade, instead it feels like he's doing these movies almost exclusively to get funding for the Tribecca Film Festival at this point, and that's not great. Look at Jack Nicholson's career in comparison, he was very much still on top form as far as being a star in the 2000s, and he didn't need to embarrass himself in a lot of lowbrow stupid comedies, because he was more selective with his roles, and it led him to the greatest run of his career as far an actual box office star was concerned, and then he quietly retired after 2010. DeNiro could have done the same thing, but instead it felt like he couldn't say no. Yeah, a lot of people think less of DeNiro, not just because he's done lowbrow comedies, but because his career, whether comedy or drama, has been a crushing disappointment to many people for the last 25 years. To me, he was almost a different actor in the first 25 years.I respect what he's achieved and he is an all-time great (mainly for the first half of his career), but a lot of people fell off the "DeNiro is GOAT" bandwagon a long time ago, and that's mostly his fault. You can't be so prolific and mediocre for so long as he has, and not believe it won't affect how many people rate you. Absolutely, it's not that DeNiro's work has gotten any less noticeable, it's more that it feels like he's evolved into a bit of high bad camp, and the most egregious example of self parody. As a result something feels very much off. |
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Nov 9, 2020 19:50:59 GMT
Imaging criticizing GOAT DeNiro for making some stupid comedies in his senior years?
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 9, 2020 19:59:53 GMT
Imaging criticizing GOAT DeNiro for making some stupid comedies in his senior years? I criticise DeNiro for the last 25 years of his career. The stupid comedies are just collateral damage of a much larger malaise  I know DeNiro still has some hardcore loyalists that believe he's beyond criticism because the first half of his career was so incredible (and I'll always be a fan for his peak/prime stuff), but trust me when I say that it's a pretty uncontroversial opinion to hold that DeNiro's career and quality of performances dipped considerably in the last few decades. He doesn't get a free pass from me, but if others wish to, that's their business. |
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Nov 9, 2020 20:13:26 GMT
Imaging criticizing GOAT DeNiro for making some stupid comedies in his senior years? I criticise DeNiro for the last 25 years of his career. The stupid comedies are just collateral damage of a much larger malaise I know DeNiro still has some hardcore loyalists that believe he's beyond criticism because the first half of his career was so incredible (and I'll always be a fan for his peak/prime stuff), but trust me when I say that it's a pretty uncontroversial opinion to hold that DeNiro's career and quality of performances dipped considerably in the last few decades. He doesn't get a free pass from me, but if others wish to, that's their business. While I’m not denying that he’s had some rough stretches, I’d still say he’s had 10-12 very good films in the past 25 years (post Heat and not counting very minor roles) which certainly isn’t that terrible for as prolific as he is. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 9, 2020 20:22:06 GMT
The last 25 years of Robert De Niro's career include a bona fide classic: Heat, AND 2 films with 10 Oscar nominations last year (!), an Emmy nod, an Oscar nod, 2 huge hit comedies, etc. Actors stature fall or rise with yearly circumstances - Nicholson won a 3rd Oscar in the last 25 years.........Pacino won the Triple Crown in it....both did that with no American male matching them for 20-25 years now  .......so yes I agree De Niro had problems but like I said, not that many people, if any, "passed" what he did in totality.......every one of the actors mentioned in the OP (Brando, DDL, Washington, Duvall) wish they had some of those achievements - especially in comedy. This isn't a career status thread of Robert De Niro but at most 2 or 3 American actors ever rank higher than him .....maybe 0.........I don't believe he's "beyond criticism" just that it's a bit misdirected (at least) ......especially in this thread like I said before. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 9, 2020 20:43:22 GMT
I criticise DeNiro for the last 25 years of his career. The stupid comedies are just collateral damage of a much larger malaise I know DeNiro still has some hardcore loyalists that believe he's beyond criticism because the first half of his career was so incredible (and I'll always be a fan for his peak/prime stuff), but trust me when I say that it's a pretty uncontroversial opinion to hold that DeNiro's career and quality of performances dipped considerably in the last few decades. He doesn't get a free pass from me, but if others wish to, that's their business. While I’m not denying that he’s had some rough stretches, I’d still say he’s had 10-12 very good films in the past 25 years (post Heat and not counting very minor roles) which certainly isn’t that terrible for as prolific as he is. Sure he's made some decent films post-Heat. The guy pumps out 3 movies a year. A few will be good mainly by law of averages. But I just don't think he's been the same actor since that time. For me, what made DeNiro truly special was his focus, preparation and intensity. When he decided, "fuck it, I'm just gonna show up and make as many movies as possible", he almost turned into a highly rated journeyman actor. He can be dependably ok and still good-ish at times, but he was not the kind of actor who could afford to take shortcuts and maintain that extraordinary level he once was capable of. DeNiro was one of those guys that almost needed to be like Daniel Day-Lewis (and to be fair, he was DDL before DDL in terms of the lengths he went to for a role). When DeNiro was doing shit like getting the exact style of silk underwear Al Capone wore to play him , it might have seemed indulgent or extreme, but that is the kind of dedication he needed to get the results he did. Since Heat, DeNiro has made an incredible 60 movies. Not one of his performances in those 60 films (even the one he got an Oscar nomination for, Silver Linings Playbook) would make my Top 20 Robert DeNiro perfomances. A couple might sneak into a top 25. But it's just been an incredibly disappointing return for such a once reliablely brilliant actor, imho. But if others are happy with how the last 25 years and 60 movies went for him, more power to them. |
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Nov 9, 2020 20:57:34 GMT
While I’m not denying that he’s had some rough stretches, I’d still say he’s had 10-12 very good films in the past 25 years (post Heat and not counting very minor roles) which certainly isn’t that terrible for as prolific as he is. Sure he's made some decent films post-Heat. The guy pumps out 3 movies a year. A few will be good mainly by law of averages. But I just don't think he's been the same actor since that time. For me, what made DeNiro truly special was his focus, preparation and intensity. When he decided, "fuck it, I'm just gonna show up and make as many movies as possible", he almost turned into a highly rated journeyman actor. He can be dependably ok and still good-ish at times, but he was not the kind of actor who could afford to take shortcuts and maintain that extraordinary level he once was capable of. DeNiro was one of those guys that almost needed to be like Daniel Day-Lewis (and to be fair, he was DDL before DDL in terms of the lengths he went to for a role). When DeNiro was doing shit like getting the exact style of silk underwear Al Capone wore to play him , it might have seemed indulgent or extreme, but that is the kind of dedication he needed to get the results he did. Since Heat, DeNiro has made an incredible 60 movies. Not one of his performances in those 60 films (even the one he got an Oscar nomination for, Silver Linings Playbook) would make my Top 20 Robert DeNiro perfomances. A couple might sneak into a top 25. But it's just been an incredibly disappointing return for such a once reliablely brilliant actor, imho. But if others are happy with how the last 25 years and 60 movies went for him, more power to them. Maybe he just didn’t want to put himself thru the ringer anymore. He’d already proven himself as an all-timer so he could keep working or retire. Not everyone has to be as selective as DDL or DiCaprio or care about their legacy that much. |
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Post by futuretrunks on Nov 9, 2020 23:51:24 GMT
I actually think De Niro is a brilliant comic actor/entertainer, and far greater at comedy than drama. Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, The Godfather Part II...his work in those films passes right by me to the point where I always bristled when people compared him to Pacino (who I think is vastly superior as a dramatic actor). But what he's doing in Cape Fear? American Hustle? The Bag Man? Dirty Grandpa? etc. The dude is a flat-out natural at comedy, like Mark Wahlberg.
I think De Niro isn't a great projector of emotion besides mischievous glee, so his dramatic acting always ends up being too glum or repressed and hitched on something gimmicky and inexpressive. It can feel (however temporally crazy it sounds) like young De Niro processed DDL and Bale, when he should have studied young Oldman.
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Post by Good God on Nov 10, 2020 1:15:33 GMT
I know people will persist with their idiocy, even in the face of facts, but De Niro is the actor that current actors across generations worship. Right from the most respected actors of his subsequent generation like Day-Lewis, Washington, Hanks, and Penn, who have all cited De Niro as being either the primary reason they even became an actor or as an acting hero, to the most respected actors of the current generation like DiCaprio, Phoenix, and Bale, two of whom have called De Niro their favorite actor of all time. Even Streep has said that she learns from De Niro all the time, so this is not just limited to male actors either.
Oh, and this remains the case even after the comedy phase of De Niro's career. DiCaprio and Phoenix didn't call De Niro their all-time favorite actor in the 1990s and then go back on that. They called him their all-time favorite actor in the 2010s. Meet the Parents, in particular, is by no stretch of the imagination anything but a triumph for De Niro. It made $330M at the box-office, which is more than a certain someone has ever managed in his career, and it introduced De Niro to a new generation of young movie-goers and enticed them to seek out his earlier, more seminal work. De Niro can star in 50 more turds and he will still have a filmography that mops the floor with everybody else's.
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 10, 2020 2:45:05 GMT
Except nobody is arguing that DeNiro isn't beloved by actors and considered insanely influential for his earlier work in particular. No one is taking that away from him.
A lot of people find his last 25 years ( or thereabouts) disappointing. Even actors of note who have said they worshipped him or deeply admired him have openly said so (even though it's generally considered bad form or rude to do so. But a few have chosen not to be politically correct). Bruno Ganz pointed out in a brutally honest fashion why he felt DeNiro had severrly declined and why he no longer looked forward to his performances. When Russell Crowe was at the top of his Hollywood career in the mid-2000's, he gave an interview where he pointed out how much of a disappointment DeNiro (an actor he grew up worshipping) had become to him as an actor.
In a 2014 Playboy interview, Gary Oldman threw some very unsubtle shade at DeNiro's decline (and Oldman is another guy that would cite DeNiro as an acting hero or influence coming up):
"You sit there and watch a comedy, let's say "Meet The Fockers". You tell them (meaning his children) this guy was at one time considered the greatest living actor. My boys look at me and say, "Really"? "This guy"? He's a middle aged dad".
So, should Oldman, Ganz and Crowe be burned at the stake and considered idiots for heresy for daring to admit or suggest an actor that they once deeply admired had become a disappointment to them or had essentially lost it for quite a long time? Or should they just be credited for being honest.
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Post by Good God on Nov 10, 2020 3:07:56 GMT
A lot of people find his last 25 years ( or thereabouts) disappointing. Even actors of note who have said they worshipped him or deeply admired him have openly said so (even though it's generally considered bad form or rude to do so. But a few have chosen not to be politically correct). Bruno Ganz pointed out in a brutally honest fashion why he felt DeNiro had severrly declined and why he no longer looked forward to his performances. When Russell Crowe was at the top of his Hollywood career in the mid-2000's, he gave an interview where he pointed out how much of a disappointment DeNiro (an actor he grew up worshipping) had become to him as an actor. Here is what Crowe said: "I mean, Robert De Niro advertising American Express. Gee whiz, it's not the first time he's disappointed me." As The Guardian rightly noted, "Crowe conspicuously failed to extend his criticism to his good friend Nicole Kidman, who recently pocketed a reported $2M to plug Chanel No. 5 perfume." If Crowe was being intellectually consistent in his criticism, his disappointment would extend to Nicole Kidman, who you seem to have a massive boner for. Gary Oldman's kids saying a 60-year-old De Niro is a middle-aged dad, which he was, is "shade"? I guess, if you're a delusional hater that can only interpret it that way. Denzel Washington is a middle-aged dad. Am I "shading" Washington when I state that fact? Everybody is entitled to their opinions, but none of what any of them said is actually bad. Ganz admitted that it might be his problem that he didn't want De Niro doing silly comedies instead of movies like Raging Bull, which would also have been my sentiment. Crowe, when he was in his Penn-like sanctimony phase, basically didn't like De Niro doing advertisements, which in hindsight was not a good look for Crowe seeing as how he himself had done commercials. Doesn't detract from the fact that Crowe himself worshipped De Niro. Nothing Oldman said is even remotely shade, but I see why you'd interpret it that way. You kind of have no option but to grasp at straws because you know De Niro's stature is nigh on untouchable. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 10, 2020 3:10:36 GMT
If you say so, bro.
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Post by Good God on Nov 10, 2020 3:12:47 GMT
It's not me saying so, sis. It's Ganz, Crowe, and Oldman. I am merely quoting what they said and extrapolating on their implied meaning. Either those "criticisms" extend to Washington and Kidman, or they're not criticisms at all. Pick your poison. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 10, 2020 3:17:11 GMT
I've said what I said. Take it as you please. I don't need you to agree with it.  |
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Post by Good God on Nov 10, 2020 3:21:45 GMT
I've said what I said. Take it as you please. I don't need you to agree with it. I'll take it as you being: 1. Delusional, because nothing Oldman said was "shade" by any stretch of the imagination. 2. Hypocritical, because being a "middle-aged dad", like Washington currently is, is not an actual criticism. And if acting in commercials detracted from your legacy, that would also be a mark against Kidman. I don't see you making those "criticisms" against your favorites. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 10, 2020 3:24:09 GMT
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Post by sirchuck23 on Nov 10, 2020 5:04:26 GMT
While I’m not denying that he’s had some rough stretches, I’d still say he’s had 10-12 very good films in the past 25 years (post Heat and not counting very minor roles) which certainly isn’t that terrible for as prolific as he is. Sure he's made some decent films post-Heat. The guy pumps out 3 movies a year. A few will be good mainly by law of averages. But I just don't think he's been the same actor since that time. For me, what made DeNiro truly special was his focus, preparation and intensity. When he decided, "fuck it, I'm just gonna show up and make as many movies as possible", he almost turned into a highly rated journeyman actor. He can be dependably ok and still good-ish at times, but he was not the kind of actor who could afford to take shortcuts and maintain that extraordinary level he once was capable of. DeNiro was one of those guys that almost needed to be like Daniel Day-Lewis (and to be fair, he was DDL before DDL in terms of the lengths he went to for a role). When DeNiro was doing shit like getting the exact style of silk underwear Al Capone wore to play him , it might have seemed indulgent or extreme, but that is the kind of dedication he needed to get the results he did. Since Heat, DeNiro has made an incredible 60 movies. Not one of his performances in those 60 films (even the one he got an Oscar nomination for, Silver Linings Playbook) would make my Top 20 Robert DeNiro perfomances. A couple might sneak into a top 25. But it's just been an incredibly disappointing return for such a once reliablely brilliant actor, imho. But if others are happy with how the last 25 years and 60 movies went for him, more power to them. Shoooowwwtiimee!!! |
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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 14, 2021 12:53:54 GMT
I watched 40 Carats last night and think Liv Ullman really is the female Brando in this way where she is so dominant in heavy drama you can't picture her in a comedy at a starting level - conceptually, on the page.........although Brando is far funnier within his dramas and his comedies imo. Ullman was Globe nodded for a comedy here (like Brando was once) - so it's not like she doesn't have some record of it - the other men DDL/Washington/Hopkins/Clift/Scofield/Duvall are in some way missing it - not entirely - all those guys have it slightly or somewhat - especially DDL - but to a clearly "almost absent" extent, with no awards or box-office traction for comedy - especially that's true of Clift and Scofield who are missing it and missing trying it. But she's more like Brando in you don't think of her "first" or even "10th" for the role - this is who was considered for Ullman's role in 40 Carats - and as good as she is here - maybe ALL of these are more suited for that particular part than she was ....and she is I would say, a clearly better actress than all of these people are - she's GOAT level: Audrey Hepburn, Elizabeth Taylor, Joanne Woodward, Doris Day, Glenda Jackson, Shirley MacLaine, and Sophia Loren  |
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Dec 16, 2021 13:41:12 GMT
I do not believe so (on film) I've never seen it if he did but I didn't see all his work.......Scofield is one of those people to me like Liv Ullman who I'm sure did comedy but I still can't picture "being funny"  ........although she's one of the greatest actresses of all-time anyway.
Scofield, Clift and Day-Lewis all guys who get that "but could they do comedy" thing a lot ........all were guys who only made ~20 total films or less....... Paul Muni is another (just 23 films iirc) and got the same criticism even though like the other 3 he got a lot of acclaim too. Well, Daniel Day Lewis has A room with a view at least. Right. And he is hilarious in it. A real scene stealer. |
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.......so yes I agree De Niro had problems but like I said, not that many people, if any, "passed" what he did in totality.......every one of the actors mentioned in the OP (Brando, DDL, Washington, Duvall) wish they had some of those achievements - especially in comedy.
........although she's one of the greatest actresses of all-time anyway.