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Post by futuretrunks on Sept 6, 2020 22:27:05 GMT
By careers' end, who will be acknowledged as the superior filmmaker? Both are 50 years old. After seeing Tenet, I have no doubt the answer is Nolan.
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Post by stephen on Sept 6, 2020 22:40:11 GMT
Nolan will probably always have the edge in terms of popularity due to his genre films, but Anderson is superior in every other respect. And I say that as a Nolan fan.
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Post by futuretrunks on Sept 6, 2020 23:26:12 GMT
Nolan will probably always have the edge in terms of popularity due to his genre films, but Anderson is superior in every other respect. And I say that as a Nolan fan. But Anderson can't even write a decent script anymore. I'm curious to hear his fans explain why audiences care so little about him, to the point where Malick can outgross him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2020 23:32:09 GMT
PTA will be more generally "respected" by most film fans in the long run. For me personally, easy pick - while I don't hold PTA in as high regard these days as I did when I was younger, he still handily crushes Nolan.
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Post by stephen on Sept 6, 2020 23:35:45 GMT
Nolan will probably always have the edge in terms of popularity due to his genre films, but Anderson is superior in every other respect. And I say that as a Nolan fan. But Anderson can't even write a decent script anymore. I'm curious to hear his fans explain why audiences care so little about him, to the point where Malick can outgross him. Yeah, you need to stop thinking that this is agreed-upon fact.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 6, 2020 23:35:52 GMT
Nolan will probably always have the edge in terms of popularity due to his genre films, but Anderson is superior in every other respect. And I say that as a Nolan fan. But Anderson can't even write a decent script anymore. I'm curious to hear his fans explain why audiences care so little about him, to the point where Malick can outgross him. The public often doesn't have a taste for quality? I've recently criticized this forum's fixation on awards but box office means even less to me. If something is good it's good, money or awards don't have anything to do with the content of the work. It's the same movie no matter how much money it makes. I guess Nolan is the answer to this question since he's more popular with the GP, but what does it matter? I don't dislike Nolan at all but for me the answer is clearly PTA.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 6, 2020 23:37:42 GMT
But Anderson can't even write a decent script anymore. I'm curious to hear his fans explain why audiences care so little about him, to the point where Malick can outgross him. Yeah, you need to stop thinking that this is agreed-upon fact. I didn't even go there because I wasn't sure if that was a comment on how much improvisation there reportedly was in Phantom Thread. I do not know how much of a script there truly was in advance. But looking at just the finished product the "script" is excellent.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2020 23:39:29 GMT
But Anderson can't even write a decent script anymore. I'm curious to hear his fans explain why audiences care so little about him, to the point where Malick can outgross him. The public often doesn't have a taste for quality? I've recently criticized this forum's fixation on awards but box office means even less to me. If something is good it's good, money or awards don't have anything to do with the content of the work. It's the same movie no matter how much money it makes. I guess Nolan is the answer to this question since he's more popular with the GP, but what does it matter? I don't dislike Nolan at all but for me the answer is clearly PTA. I took this to be asking about people who are at least decently into film (not that PTA is inaccessible lol) - if the question is just which of their sets of films will most people like more when all is said and done, yeah, gotta be Nolan.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 6, 2020 23:52:10 GMT
The public often doesn't have a taste for quality? I've recently criticized this forum's fixation on awards but box office means even less to me. If something is good it's good, money or awards don't have anything to do with the content of the work. It's the same movie no matter how much money it makes. I guess Nolan is the answer to this question since he's more popular with the GP, but what does it matter? I don't dislike Nolan at all but for me the answer is clearly PTA. I took this to be asking about people who are at least decently into film (not that PTA is inaccessible lol) - if the question is just which of their sets of films will most people like more when all is said and done, yeah, gotta be Nolan. Nolan is just so much more popular by multiple orders of magnitude. If it was directors who have had more of a balance of acclaim and commercial success like The Coens or even David Lynch you might be able to say they would be more respected and viewed as "better" even if Nolan was more popular, but PTA doesn't have anything as big as those guys biggest movies (or Twin Peaks). PTA is more in cult-director Wes Anderson territory and even Anderson has had a couple minor hits.
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Post by DeepArcher on Sept 7, 2020 0:10:18 GMT
PTA will continue to be the more acclaimed one by academics, critics and more diehard cinephiles, and Nolan will continue to be more popular with the majority of moviegoing audiences. Unless one (or both) of their careers takes a drastic turn in the latter half of their careers, I couldn't imagine that that changes or that they would be viewed any differently by posterity.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Sept 7, 2020 0:10:39 GMT
PTA is in that pre-Cape Fear Scorsese kinda zone where he's had a lot of critical success along with a fan following and some pop culture impact but no runaway box office hit. It just takes one hit or partnering with a major actor (Joaquin again post-Joker could help) to reframe his career to the public.
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Post by pupdurcs on Sept 7, 2020 0:29:43 GMT
This feels like asking if Alan Parker will go down as a greater filmmaker than Steven Spielberg. Deep down, you already know what the answer should be.
Even if I liked Parker more as a filmmaker (and he has got some seriously great movies. More great movies than PTA, imho) the answer is obviously Spielberg.
Nolan is much closer to Spielberg in universal esteem (audiences, critics industry etc) than someone like PTA, whose influence seems wildly overestimated here. He hasn't really expanded his influence much beyond the hardcore cinephile crowd. There is a cult of personality around PTA, but it's nowhere near enough to challenge someone like Nolan. Some people act like he's Scorsese in terms of pop culture relevance, and he's nothing near that.
The answer is clearly Nolan.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 0:48:21 GMT
He hasn't really expanded his influence much beyond the hardcore cinephile crowd. Eh, I don't think so, unless your definition of "hardcore cinephile crowd" is much, much larger than mine. He's one of the most popular American filmmakers, tons and tons of entry-level movie type people love TWBB, his last movie was nominated for a bunch of Oscars including Best Picture, Film Twitter goes nuts for him and that's about as far from the "hardcore cinephile" crowd as you can get, etc.
I don't disagree that Nolan is far more popular though
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Post by pupdurcs on Sept 7, 2020 1:04:50 GMT
He hasn't really expanded his influence much beyond the hardcore cinephile crowd. Eh, I don't think so, unless your definition of "hardcore cinephile crowd" is much, much larger than mine. He's one of the most popular American filmmakers, tons and tons of entry-level movie type people love TWBB, his last movie was nominated for a bunch of Oscars including Best Picture, Film Twitter goes nuts for him and that's about as far from the "hardcore cinephile" crowd as you can get, etc.
I don't disagree that Nolan is far more popular though
Cinephile= A person with a passionate interest in film, film criticism and film theorySo yes, that definition for me stretches to much of "film twitter", film students, people who vote for the Oscars etc. People who are hardcore into cinema or work in the field are familiar with PTA. I don't think he has any significant name recognition or value at all to the general movie going populace, like a Nolan, a Tarantino or even a Spike Lee. He never developed that kind of brand. He had the potential to after Boogie Nights, but his movies kept getting less accessible.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Sept 7, 2020 1:19:23 GMT
My take:
PTA is kind of disadvantaged in that he inhabits a lesser era than previous decades. The era where PTA got the biggest chunk of praise is 2007-present. Very few films released in that period is ever talked about like an all-time great.
He's beating his peers easily in acclaim these days, but the competition is weaker. Had he been around earlier, we'll see how he stands up against Scorsese, Coppola, Altman, and etc. Which then maybe he won't seem as strong anymore.
There Will Be Blood clearly stands out, but it's not The Godfather. It doesn't change the game like The Godfather does, or make the type of statement about America like The Godfather. It's not Vertigo. It certainly doesn't, or will ever have the kind of revisionist critics behind it like Vertigo slowly accrued. By the 80s, it became painfully apparent nobody will ever make Vertigo again. No matter how many times DePalma tried. I don't see that type of distinction with TWBB. Can nobody make TWBB ever again? I highly doubt that. This is why I don't there's anything left to uncover about it. It's not an overly complex film. I also think there's much less to it than some other greats like La Dolce vita, Charm le discreet de la bourgeoisie, Last Year at Marienbad. I don't see its status increasing through the years. It'll have the same reputation it does now, which is still very good - but I don't think its status will increase like Vertigo, The Godfather, Citizen Kane, and Mulholland Dr has. Is Nolan anywhere near a GOAT? No not even close, but my personal opinion is that Interstellar (his best) beats PTA's best (The Master). They both have really good movies (Punch Drunk Love, Inception). Decent (The Dark Knight, There Will Be Blood). and misfires (Magnolia, The Dark Knight Rises). So they're about at the same level... so it's especially interesting these are the two biggest names competitively going at it these days.... seeing as they're both about at a similar level of quality.
Both are entry-level tier directors. In the upper 15th percentile among every known working director there is. But among big name directors..... they're somewhere near the lower half.
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Post by stabcaesar on Sept 7, 2020 1:23:42 GMT
But Anderson can't even write a decent script anymore. I'm curious to hear his fans explain why audiences care so little about him, to the point where Malick can outgross him. Between the 2 PTA is the one who can't write a decent script? Nolan = hack with the most insufferable fanboys PTA = amongst the greatest working filmmaker
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Post by Allenism on Sept 7, 2020 1:54:11 GMT
Nolan is a machinist. PTA is an artist.
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Post by franklin on Sept 7, 2020 2:24:14 GMT
Nolan is this era's Spielberg PTA is this era's Scorsese.
The former may always be more popular, but the latter will always be more revered and respected.
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Post by TerryMontana on Sept 7, 2020 5:18:53 GMT
This feels like asking if Alan Parker will go down as a greater filmmaker than Steven Spielberg. Deep down, you already know what the answer should be. Even if I liked Parker more as a filmmaker (and he has got some seriously great movies. More great movies than PTA, imho) the answer is obviously Spielberg .
Nolan is much closer to Spielberg in universal esteem (audiences, critics industry etc) than someone like PTA, whose influence seems wildly overestimated here. He hasn't really expanded his influence much beyond the hardcore cinephile crowd. There is a cult of personality around PTA, but it's nowhere near enough to challenge someone like Nolan. Some people act like he's Scorsese in terms of pop culture relevance, and he's nothing near that. The answer is clearly Nolan. That. 100%.
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Post by themoviesinner on Sept 7, 2020 5:51:30 GMT
I like both directors, but PTA's last two films have been really disappointing for me. Mostly dull and uninteresting affairs. On the other hand Nolan's last two films were pretty great, among the best of his career. So I guess I'll go with Nolan, even though The Master is by far the best film either of them has done.
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Post by jimmalone on Sept 7, 2020 7:21:38 GMT
Well, personally I think Nolan is better than Anderson in pretty much aspect - technically, artistically, telling the story, etc. And he has build such a huge lead that I doubt this will change. Generally I guess Anderson will be higher regarded by critics, Nolan by general public. And among film fans both will have their fair share of fans.
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Post by futuretrunks on Jan 11, 2024 2:45:27 GMT
bump
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jan 11, 2024 4:43:06 GMT
I like both directors, but PTA's last two films have been really disappointing for me. Mostly dull and uninteresting affairs. On the other hand Nolan's last two films were pretty great, among the best of his career. So I guess I'll go with Nolan, even though The Master is by far the best film either of them has done. Greatly respect your opinion and consider that maybe your mind has changed in the last 3 years, but I would love to get your full thoughts on Phantom Thread.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 11, 2024 4:54:16 GMT
The answer was obviously Nolan even before Oppenheimer.
Oppenheimer really confirmed he's arguably the biggest, respected "name brand auteur" since peak Spielberg and before him Alfred Hitchcock. I cannot for the life of me think of any director alive today who could get a film like Oppenheimer to a near billion dollar worldwide gross (without a major movie star lead to boot). James Cameron is famous for being a box office god, but all his films are designed to be blockbusters. He couldn't turn something like Oppenheimer into a near billion dollar grosser.
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Post by stabcaesar on Jan 11, 2024 4:58:32 GMT
Still PTA by far.
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